(05-15-2020 10:18 AM)smudge12 Wrote: [ -> ]I see democratic governments as the people themselves - a social pact to work together. In fact, democracy is born from good people in order to protect ourselves from selfishness.
I try not to think of it as me vs. the government, but me vs. my neighbors whose collective decisions I must respect (because again, we are mostly good people).
And if I want to change the pact we've made, there are clear processes. I need to convince them of my opinions, vote, protest, run for office, donate, etc.
That is an admirable position, if only the government actually did represent the will of the people most of the time. The massive government we have created at this point seem far more geared toward grow, protecting, and empowering itself than to executing the will of the people. Local government seems to be the only level of government that cares for the will of its constituents at all.
(05-15-2020 09:58 AM)smudge12 Wrote: [ -> ]That's the problem. People will (and have) made the best decisions for themselves, with no regards to others.
This is why we have laws, and government.
So said the expansionists, who set the Cherokee Nation on "The Long March".
So said the segregationists, who gave us the wisdom of "separate but equal" and outlawed mixed-race marriages.
So said the prohibitionists, who drove alcohol usage underground.
Gov't is meant to operate within the framework of the laws adopted by the governed, all subject to the limitations set forth in our Constitution. When laws infringe on the basic rights of the governed, they should be called into question. When gov't behavior exceeds its authority, it should be peacefully challenged.
I'm not sure that our current "leaders" are heeding this fundamental American precept. Act as we command or you will be punished may work for some cultures. I don't think it will work for ours.
(05-15-2020 10:18 AM)smudge12 Wrote: [ -> ]I see democratic governments as the people themselves - a social pact to work together. In fact, democracy is born from good people in order to protect ourselves from selfishness.
I try not to think of it as me vs. the government, but me vs. my neighbors whose collective decisions I must respect (because again, we are mostly good people).
And if I want to change the pact we've made, there are clear processes. I need to convince them of my opinions, vote, protest, run for office, donate, etc.
This has been the direct opposite of democratic. The people have had no say in any of this. I get that the governor can and should have emergency powers, but we have now known about this virus for 5 months and the shutdown is going on 2 months and counting. We are will beyond the point that we should expect debate, hearings and a legislative process. In fact, there is not a single elected official at the state or local level that I can hold accountable for any of this. My state representatives, mayor, or city council representatives have not so much as given their personal opinions on any of it to my knowledge, much less acted. I assume all of their opinions will become whatever the popular opinion is at the time of their next elections. The police chief clearly isn't enforcing the edicts, which I am grateful for, but he is unelected anyway as are the other bureaucrats making local decisions. The governor making all the decisions at the state level really isn't accountable either since the law prohibits him from running for reelection.
Sorrento Therapeutics claims they have found a cure for Covid-19. Announcement came today. It is the STI-1499 Antibody.
"Stocks for Sorrento soared by nearly 220% on the heels of the announcement."
(05-15-2020 06:37 AM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (05-14-2020 11:06 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-14-2020 06:52 AM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ]The LA County extension for the Stay At Home order is unbelievable. As I see this happen, I wonder to myself how educated the people making these decisions really are. These decisions seem to made on the idea that a vaccine is right around the corner. Somebody fact-check me on this, but I don't believe that in the history of our country we have been able to mass produce a viable vaccine in less than 4 years. So now, what is being reported, is that we are going have 100 million doses to disperse throughout the country in November!? Are people out of their ******* minds???
Obviously not a scientist and I've read that 4 years (mumps) is the record. (and i have no clue if November is possible) Having said that, ways that they are speeding up the process:
There are more scientists working on this than ever before.
This virus does not mutate quickly (or is not believed to do so quickly)
Corona viruses have been studied for years giving them a bit of a head start
Technology has evolved and thus, the speed at which scientists can sequence the genetic code.
The patch (vaccine), as opposed to a shot, is easy to produce.
There is usually an outline of events that have to happen in sequential order (because govt..obviously works slow), but in this case they are doing some steps concurrently.
2020 seems very unlikely but 2021 seems plausible.
1. Don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining.
2. We were never able to find a vaccine for SARS.
Its never had the attention it has now either.
(05-15-2020 12:46 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-15-2020 06:37 AM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (05-14-2020 11:06 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-14-2020 06:52 AM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ]The LA County extension for the Stay At Home order is unbelievable. As I see this happen, I wonder to myself how educated the people making these decisions really are. These decisions seem to made on the idea that a vaccine is right around the corner. Somebody fact-check me on this, but I don't believe that in the history of our country we have been able to mass produce a viable vaccine in less than 4 years. So now, what is being reported, is that we are going have 100 million doses to disperse throughout the country in November!? Are people out of their ******* minds???
Obviously not a scientist and I've read that 4 years (mumps) is the record. (and i have no clue if November is possible) Having said that, ways that they are speeding up the process:
There are more scientists working on this than ever before.
This virus does not mutate quickly (or is not believed to do so quickly)
Corona viruses have been studied for years giving them a bit of a head start
Technology has evolved and thus, the speed at which scientists can sequence the genetic code.
The patch (vaccine), as opposed to a shot, is easy to produce.
There is usually an outline of events that have to happen in sequential order (because govt..obviously works slow), but in this case they are doing some steps concurrently.
2020 seems very unlikely but 2021 seems plausible.
1. Don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining.
2. We were never able to find a vaccine for SARS.
Its never had the attention it has now either.
This is true, but there were a lot of people working on a vaccine, but they didn't have the funding that COVID-19 has.
(05-15-2020 11:19 AM)smudge12 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-15-2020 10:53 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (05-15-2020 10:18 AM)smudge12 Wrote: [ -> ]I see democratic governments as the people themselves - a social pact to work together. In fact, democracy is born from good people in order to protect ourselves from selfishness.
I try not to think of it as me vs. the government, but me vs. my neighbors whose collective decisions I must respect (because again, we are mostly good people).
And if I want to change the pact we've made, there are clear processes. I need to convince them of my opinions, vote, protest, run for office, donate, etc.
This has been the direct opposite of democratic. The people have had no say in any of this. I get that the governor can and should have emergency powers, but we have now known about this virus for 5 months and the shutdown is going on 2 months and counting. We are will beyond the point that we should expect debate, hearings and a legislative process. In fact, there is not a single elected official at the state or local level that I can hold accountable for any of this. My state representatives, mayor, or city council representatives have not so much as given their personal opinions on any of it to my knowledge, much less acted. I assume all of their opinions will become whatever the popular opinion is at the time of their next elections. The police chief clearly isn't enforcing the edicts, which I am grateful for, but he is unelected anyway as are the other bureaucrats making local decisions. The governor making all the decisions at the state level really isn't accountable either since the law prohibits him from running for reelection.
I think I covered my opinion about this somewhere early in the thread, but the legislature is the clearest representative of the people. If it believes the Governor is overstepping his authority, it has the power to rein him in. In that regards - as a representative democracy - the people had say in the decision.
We can of course protest, but it's clear Virginians (for the most part) have no major issues with Northam's handling of the situation. It doesn't even seem like representatives are being pressured to rein in the Governor.
And there are ways to hold them accountable. Obviously voting (which doesn't help now), but recall petitions for any public official can be done immediately: https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/titl...n24.2-233/
The legislative body's inaction should not be treated as an affirmation of the Governor's policy. Inaction by legislators should equal no laws, not deference to authoritarian edicts. If they refuse to act, then we get no laws. Not sure how you have flipped the playing field.
We need ODU sports again to argue over. Badly.
(05-15-2020 08:53 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote: [ -> ]We need ODU sports again to argue over. Badly.
Can we argue over Wilder some more? :). Saw him playing golf with a friend of mine yesterday. I think hes doing good!
(05-15-2020 08:53 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote: [ -> ]We need ODU sports again to argue over. Badly.
This is pretty awful, but somehow still better than hearing for the 14-jillionth time how we should drop football and join the a10.
The old expression. If it seems to good to be true.......
Florida just refuses to allow coroners to report corona deaths. So how can you trust any info coming out of there?
(05-16-2020 11:29 AM)Grommet Wrote: [ -> ] (05-15-2020 08:53 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote: [ -> ]We need ODU sports again to argue over. Badly.
This is pretty awful, but somehow still better than hearing for the 14-jillionth time how we should drop football and join the a10.
Agreed - that argument is tired - but will never die. Never....sigh. FBS is here to stay - period.
(05-16-2020 09:41 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-15-2020 08:53 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote: [ -> ]We need ODU sports again to argue over. Badly.
Can we argue over Wilder some more? :). Saw him playing golf with a friend of mine yesterday. I think hes doing good!
Glad he is doing well. I’m sure his severance is providing nicely - as it should! Wilder deserves a statue at the entrance of the stadium. It is the house he and Heinicke built.
(05-17-2020 12:47 PM)smudge12 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-17-2020 10:51 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-15-2020 08:27 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]Two weeks after GA Governor Kemp made the "reckless" decision to open Georgia for business, his state has seen a decrease in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. Funny how this was big news when the media thought Georgia was going to crash and burn, but you can barely find a peep anywhere now that it has been a success.
https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/1...04480?s=20
That makes a ton more sense than the sudden drop in the graph that was linked earlier this week (from GA DPH). The severe downward slope in that graph went against other statistics from places like the CDC and Johns Hopkins.
I am just curious....Do you want to keep the country closed? If so, what are we waiting on to open?
A lot of people seem upset that the virus numbers are falling fast across the country and states opening and people ignoring orders don't seem to be making things worse. Curious as to why this is so upsetting.
We need to shift our focus on how to handle a 2nd wave because Americans aren't going to agree to another 3-month quarantine.
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I feel like this country's plan to deal with this virus is like pulling off a bandaid slowly.
(05-18-2020 08:26 AM)DaBigBlue Wrote: [ -> ]I feel like this country's plan to deal with this virus is like pulling off a bandaid slowly.
Excellent description. +2
(05-18-2020 06:50 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people seem upset that the virus numbers are falling fast across the country and states opening and people ignoring orders don't seem to be making things worse. Curious as to why this is so upsetting.
We need to shift our focus on how to handle a 2nd wave because Americans aren't going to agree to another 3-month quarantine.
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Given the virus's incubation period, I think we should wait at least two weeks to see what effects the first stage of opening have. This article explains the delay in data — the numbers you see now, good bad or indifferent, don't yet reflect the impact of opening early. Plus there's the issue of testing availability.
I want the virus to f off as much as anyone. And if it turns out that the virus's spread isn't as grievous a threat as we thought (or it was but for whatever reason isn't any longer), then I'll be happy and relieved. But from my observations, the people most likely to celebrate now are the ones who never thought it was a big deal in the first place and resisted any substantive measures to curb it.
All the "keep it closed" governors keep saying they are just following the science. I have yet to hear one of them describe the science that they are following, and explain how their keeping everything closed indefinitely is supported by said science, let alone an explanation of what would signify that it is time to reopen.