(05-07-2020 01:07 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ]And when the situation is changing daily? You expect the legislature to take the lead on this? You expect them to draft legislation that will effectively guide us through this? That's not their role. If they felt he was overstepping then maybe they would step in but this is part of the role of the executive branch. This is how it's supposed to work. The entire idea of his powers in this is that they are temporary and there's zero reason to believe it won't be.
Temporary would have been two weeks. When he has prevented tens of thousands of Virginians from earning a living, he has overstepped his authority. Now, if he wanted to recommend a stay-at-home order for two months, and the legislature approved, that's fine. THAT is how it's supposed to work.
(05-07-2020 01:34 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:07 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ]The entire idea of his powers in this is that they are temporary and there's zero reason to believe it won't be.
What gives you comfort that this is so? I'm serious in this question.
What I see is a politically humiliated governor who is desperate to win favor, howsoever he can, from a narrative-driven media - - one that is making money off of fanning the flames to a "crisis".
His executive orders, when compared to those of other comparatively situated states, have leaned well to the authoritarian side. He is mostly mute in his public recognition of the damage that is being inflicted upon our businesses and the harm being done to our children who have been deprived of a year of actual schooling.
I share your scorn of those who accuse our leaders of WANTING harm to our citizens. But I for one see very little indication of a balanced approach on the part of Gov. Northam.
If the 76% approval ranking is accurate, then I doubt he feels politically humiliated.
(05-07-2020 01:37 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:22 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:12 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 12:13 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]Could you please share the science that says Virginia should enter some nebulous Phase 1 on May 15?
I don't know, you can look it up but I'm pretty sure there's some guidance in there about actually having declining numbers of new cases for a set period of time. You can't even say you've managed to flatten the curve if new cases are growing. It's very similar to the Whitehouse's guidance on reopening.
There is a TON of room for new cases to grow. The hospitals are empty.
Being a friend of mine is a Doctor, I know the actual numbers (right before elective surgeries returned). I would not describe the hospitals as empyy.
I won't post specific hospitals (im not sure how confidential it is), but I have a list of a few. Most are doing ok in number of ICU beds occupied (30-50%) but there is one is particular at 86%. Vents are anywhere for 0 in use to 40% of them being in use. (though, we aren't talking about a large number of vents available.) In these handful of hospitals, there are about 15 ICU beds available and 30 vents available.
In terms of vents in Nursing homes, they are at about 75% capacity.
I have multiple friends working in hospitals, and they have said the exact opposite. I actually approve of what has been done in Virginia. One could make the argument that all of this was enforced too soon, but I am happy with the direction. It is time to transition into opening the state, as we can hope and pray that the heat and humidity will have an effect.
Ok....but what I'm giving you is the actual numbers from the hospital groups CCO that has a handful of hospitals in the area.
(05-07-2020 01:53 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:34 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:07 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ]The entire idea of his powers in this is that they are temporary and there's zero reason to believe it won't be.
What gives you comfort that this is so? I'm serious in this question.
What I see is a politically humiliated governor who is desperate to win favor, howsoever he can, from a narrative-driven media - - one that is making money off of fanning the flames to a "crisis".
His executive orders, when compared to those of other comparatively situated states, have leaned well to the authoritarian side. He is mostly mute in his public recognition of the damage that is being inflicted upon our businesses and the harm being done to our children who have been deprived of a year of actual schooling.
I share your scorn of those who accuse our leaders of WANTING harm to our citizens. But I for one see very little indication of a balanced approach on the part of Gov. Northam.
If the 76% approval ranking is accurate, then I doubt he feels politically humiliated.
I was referring to dogpiles that he stepped into last year, with the post-birth abortion comments and the resulting blackface revelations.
I agree, he is not getting much in the way of public blow back for his handling of the current crisis. Not only does he have full media air cover, but a regrettable number of our citizens don't seem to much care about the harm that is being inflicted upon those who are directly impacted by this shutdown.
(05-07-2020 01:55 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:37 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:22 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:12 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know, you can look it up but I'm pretty sure there's some guidance in there about actually having declining numbers of new cases for a set period of time. You can't even say you've managed to flatten the curve if new cases are growing. It's very similar to the Whitehouse's guidance on reopening.
There is a TON of room for new cases to grow. The hospitals are empty.
Being a friend of mine is a Doctor, I know the actual numbers (right before elective surgeries returned). I would not describe the hospitals as empyy.
I won't post specific hospitals (im not sure how confidential it is), but I have a list of a few. Most are doing ok in number of ICU beds occupied (30-50%) but there is one is particular at 86%. Vents are anywhere for 0 in use to 40% of them being in use. (though, we aren't talking about a large number of vents available.) In these handful of hospitals, there are about 15 ICU beds available and 30 vents available.
In terms of vents in Nursing homes, they are at about 75% capacity.
I have multiple friends working in hospitals, and they have said the exact opposite. I actually approve of what has been done in Virginia. One could make the argument that all of this was enforced too soon, but I am happy with the direction. It is time to transition into opening the state, as we can hope and pray that the heat and humidity will have an effect.
Ok....but what I'm giving you is the actual numbers from the hospital groups CCO that has a handful of hospitals in the area.
And I know that you are giving the actual numbers HOW?
(05-07-2020 01:33 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:22 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:12 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 12:13 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 11:11 AM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ]3 months? The beginning of February?
I won't speak on other states but in VA there is a clearly stated path to reopening which practically mirrors the Whitehouses guidelines. Should we let overly emotional people who are paranoid of government overreach dictate the reopening or science and guidance of professionals? Your Constitutional rights are NOT being infringed. If you would rather "Live and Let Die" and don't like the way our political leaders have handled it then your recourse is at the ballot box.
Could you please share the science that says Virginia should enter some nebulous Phase 1 on May 15?
I don't know, you can look it up but I'm pretty sure there's some guidance in there about actually having declining numbers of new cases for a set period of time. You can't even say you've managed to flatten the curve if new cases are growing. It's very similar to the Whitehouse's guidance on reopening.
There is a TON of room for new cases to grow. The hospitals are empty.
With a ton more tests being done. Northam said so himself.
Couldn't care less about tests or cases, confirmed or not. I care about hospitalizations. Keeping the hospitals from being overwhelmed and doctors from playing God was the entire point of shutting everything down and what most people agreed to. That is why it has all fallen apart over the last 2 weeks.
(05-07-2020 01:42 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Being a friend of mine is a Doctor, I know the actual numbers (right before elective surgeries returned). I would not describe the hospitals as empyy.
I won't post specific hospitals (im not sure how confidential it is), but I have a list of a few. Most are doing ok in number of ICU beds occupied (30-50%) but there is one is particular at 86%. Vents are anywhere for 0 in use to 40% of them being in use. (though, we aren't talking about a large number of vents available.) In these handful of hospitals, there are about 15 ICU beds available and 30 vents available.
In terms of vents in Nursing homes, they are at about 75% capacity.
According to the city, in Chesapeake, there are 9 current hospitalizations for COVID. 1 is on a ventilator. There are 84 available ventilators.
http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/d...hboard.pdf
In Virginia, 20% of the ventilators are being used. https://hrcovid19-hrpdc-gis.hub.arcgis.com
Appreciate real links, and real numbers, from real sources.
(05-07-2020 02:00 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:55 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:37 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:22 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]There is a TON of room for new cases to grow. The hospitals are empty.
Being a friend of mine is a Doctor, I know the actual numbers (right before elective surgeries returned). I would not describe the hospitals as empyy.
I won't post specific hospitals (im not sure how confidential it is), but I have a list of a few. Most are doing ok in number of ICU beds occupied (30-50%) but there is one is particular at 86%. Vents are anywhere for 0 in use to 40% of them being in use. (though, we aren't talking about a large number of vents available.) In these handful of hospitals, there are about 15 ICU beds available and 30 vents available.
In terms of vents in Nursing homes, they are at about 75% capacity.
I have multiple friends working in hospitals, and they have said the exact opposite. I actually approve of what has been done in Virginia. One could make the argument that all of this was enforced too soon, but I am happy with the direction. It is time to transition into opening the state, as we can hope and pray that the heat and humidity will have an effect.
Ok....but what I'm giving you is the actual numbers from the hospital groups CCO that has a handful of hospitals in the area.
And I know that you are giving the actual numbers HOW?
Yeah, you're right. I just made up the numbers.
(05-07-2020 02:13 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 02:08 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 02:00 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:55 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:37 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ]I have multiple friends working in hospitals, and they have said the exact opposite. I actually approve of what has been done in Virginia. One could make the argument that all of this was enforced too soon, but I am happy with the direction. It is time to transition into opening the state, as we can hope and pray that the heat and humidity will have an effect.
Ok....but what I'm giving you is the actual numbers from the hospital groups CCO that has a handful of hospitals in the area.
And I know that you are giving the actual numbers HOW?
Yeah, you're right. I just made up the numbers.
People don't do that?
I guess thats possible that the CCO of a local hospital group could send out fake numbers to their doctors. True.
(05-07-2020 02:15 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 02:13 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 02:08 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 02:00 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:55 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Ok....but what I'm giving you is the actual numbers from the hospital groups CCO that has a handful of hospitals in the area.
And I know that you are giving the actual numbers HOW?
Yeah, you're right. I just made up the numbers.
People don't do that?
I guess thats possible that the CCO of a local hospital group could send out fake numbers to their doctors. True.
Or YOU could be....
Edit: If you posted a link or real numbers from real sources, I would say I am sorry for doubting you. Until then, I am rolling with the links above, and the people I trust.
(05-07-2020 01:53 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:34 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 01:07 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ]The entire idea of his powers in this is that they are temporary and there's zero reason to believe it won't be.
What gives you comfort that this is so? I'm serious in this question.
What I see is a politically humiliated governor who is desperate to win favor, howsoever he can, from a narrative-driven media - - one that is making money off of fanning the flames to a "crisis".
His executive orders, when compared to those of other comparatively situated states, have leaned well to the authoritarian side. He is mostly mute in his public recognition of the damage that is being inflicted upon our businesses and the harm being done to our children who have been deprived of a year of actual schooling.
I share your scorn of those who accuse our leaders of WANTING harm to our citizens. But I for one see very little indication of a balanced approach on the part of Gov. Northam.
If the 76% approval ranking is accurate, then I doubt he feels politically humiliated.
I don't have too many issues with how he's handled the pandemic but I think he's a giant racist douche who should have stepped down already. He should certainly be embarrassed.
(05-07-2020 02:18 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 02:15 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 02:13 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 02:08 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (05-07-2020 02:00 PM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ]And I know that you are giving the actual numbers HOW?
Yeah, you're right. I just made up the numbers.
People don't do that?
I guess thats possible that the CCO of a local hospital group could send out fake numbers to their doctors. True.
Or YOU could be....
Edit: If you posted a link or real numbers from real sources, I would say I am sorry for doubting you. Until then, I am rolling with the links above, and the people I trust.
The numbers Coach sent have nothing to do with the numbers I sent. Those are from Chesapeake (I think). The numbers I sent were from a local hospital group that has a handful of hospitals in the area.
The 20% of ventilators being used is statewide. In Chesapeake, it's 1/85.
This is like watching slow-motion trench warfare.
I think it's a shame, wearing a facemask has become politicized. It helps in stopping the spread, what next to politicize handwashing. It's all about how much risk you willing to accept. Then you have others who see no risks or believe it's a hoax. The two don't don't mix, while we reopen.
I have no problem with those who choose to wear a mask. That's their prerogative. But, I'd rather not wear one, and I think that should be my prerogative. If a store wants to require masks, that's ok by me. I probably won't go to that store unless I absolutely have to, but that's ok, too. It doesn't have to be political. Let's just let people and businesses make the best decisions for them.