(07-05-2020 12:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (07-05-2020 12:13 PM)Justanodufan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-05-2020 09:42 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (07-05-2020 09:29 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-04-2020 09:57 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]No, it means that based on actual facts and data, I understand that these kids are not at any more risk than they are from the flu. Why do you need to immediately accuse people of ill will when they don't agree with your position?
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Where would someone go read this if they wanted to actually believe the flu is as serious as Covid?
For people in that age demographic, the death rate for flu is almost identical to COVID. I'm not going to continue doing the research for you because you refuse to accept science and data.. It's been posted before. Just to reiterate. 125 people in the 18-25 demo have died in the entire US.
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So the 20-30% decrease in lung capacity is ok, because they don’t die?
You seem to think that there aren’t lasting side effects that can alter a kid’s life. Oh wait I forgot, you actually think that these kids are getting tested daily. 
Can you cite that? A lot of mention about lasting effects here, but not a single citation of the widespread long-term effects of COVID in young healthy people. Honestly, this board is the only place I have even heard that it is a significant issue.
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I believe it was you who said:
“I am not going to continue doing the research for you because you refuse to accept science and data”
Therefore, I suggest you log off this message board and go do some research.
(07-04-2020 10:01 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (07-04-2020 09:53 PM)Grommet Wrote: [ -> ] (07-04-2020 09:38 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (07-04-2020 06:49 PM)Grommet Wrote: [ -> ] (07-01-2020 09:54 PM)Grommet Wrote: [ -> ]Generally agree, but as we enter Phase Three today there have been small upticks in the past week here (SEVA) and in SWVA that we should keep an eye on. Nature abhors a vacuum, and we're surrounded by states not doing so hot.
PS Congrats on 2500 posts!
What was going on two weeks ago that could have caused this? We weren’t even in Phase 3 then?
Here’s the thing: I think it’s a good thing that younger people are getting this. They seem to have far less serious strands of it, and it helps us move toward herd immunity.
Oy vey. I...um...no...
Tragic, sad story, but 20-somethings die everyday. Statistically speaking, they are far more likely to die from hundreds of causes than they are if they get COVID.
Yes, but the overwhelming majority of those other things are not contagious and won't infect and possibly kill that young persons, parents, grandparents, and next door neighbor. It is all well and good that you feel that young people have a low mortality rate, but those young people are the drives of most of the infections at this point in time becasue of thier fluid and vast social circles.
(07-05-2020 01:41 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, but the overwhelming majority of those other things are not contagious and won't infect and possibly kill that young persons, parents, grandparents, and next door neighbor. It is all well and good that you feel that young people have a low mortality rate, but those young people are the drives of most of the infections at this point in time becasue of thier fluid and vast social circles.
This is most certainly an important distinction. And if the highly contagious nature of this gift from Red China were the only differential, then you would have the better of this argument, BBM.
But it plainly is not.
Thanks to the lockdown of our economy, the near-total suspension of all education, sports, culture, elective healthcare/mental care, deferred justice in the courts, severely limited summer job/internship opportunities, and so on, we have created an enormous amount of secondary damage to our nation. We are only just seeing the beginnings of it - - in the form of small-business closures, increased crime rates, increased suicides, decreased tax revenues for our communities and (at least I believe) the strife that is flaring up in so many of our larger cities.
And for what? Except for the first two weeks, when Americans were mostly compliant, these mission-creep shutdown attempts at closing down our entire nation were destined to fail. Our politicians got to pretend to be God, but without the moral judgment nor the righteous power to back it up. Dabigblue’s visit to a very crowded Norfolk beach should not have come as any kind of surprise to anyone.
I fully agree, the WuFlu is highly contagious. And I further agree that it is very dangerous, and potentially lethal, to a meaningful portion of our population. But we are long past the point for scoldings and futile gestures. Time to open back up and deal with the actual disease that has been unleashed upon us by the lying Chinese, and stop creating yet more problems for ourselves for no good purpose.
(07-05-2020 02:13 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ] (07-05-2020 01:41 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, but the overwhelming majority of those other things are not contagious and won't infect and possibly kill that young persons, parents, grandparents, and next door neighbor. It is all well and good that you feel that young people have a low mortality rate, but those young people are the drives of most of the infections at this point in time becasue of thier fluid and vast social circles.
This is most certainly an important distinction. And if the highly contagious nature of this gift from Red China were the only differential, then you would have the better of this argument, BBM.
But it plainly is not.
Thanks to the lockdown of our economy, the near-total suspension of all education, sports, culture, elective healthcare/mental care, deferred justice in the courts, severely limited summer job/internship opportunities, and so on, we have created an enormous amount of secondary damage to our nation. We are only just seeing the beginnings of it - - in the form of small-business closures, increased crime rates, increased suicides, decreased tax revenues for our communities and (at least I believe) the strife that is flaring up in so many of our larger cities.
And for what? Except for the first two weeks, when Americans were mostly compliant, these mission-creep shutdown attempts at closing down our entire nation were destined to fail. Our politicians got to pretend to be God, but without the moral judgment nor the righteous power to back it up. Dabigblue’s visit to a very crowded Norfolk beach should not have come as any kind of surprise to anyone.
I fully agree, the WuFlu is highly contagious. And I further agree that it is very dangerous, and potentially lethal, to a meaningful portion of our population. But we are long past the point for scoldings and futile gestures. Time to open back up and deal with the actual disease that has been unleashed upon us by the lying Chinese, and stop creating yet more problems for ourselves for no good purpose.
Given the climbing numbers of infection rates in areas that have opened/reopened too fast, as well as the poor behavior of so many citizens (many motivated by macho political statements that salute selfishness), it looks like doctors’ warnings and government actions were appropriate.
Care and caution are still more important than convenience.
BTW... Don’t put this all on the Chinese. Yes, they withheld information, But our ‘deep state’ intelligence professionals knew early and sounded the alarm. We talk a good game in this country about self responsibility...past time our society practiced some...
(07-05-2020 02:13 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ] (07-05-2020 01:41 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, but the overwhelming majority of those other things are not contagious and won't infect and possibly kill that young persons, parents, grandparents, and next door neighbor. It is all well and good that you feel that young people have a low mortality rate, but those young people are the drives of most of the infections at this point in time becasue of thier fluid and vast social circles.
This is most certainly an important distinction. And if the highly contagious nature of this gift from Red China were the only differential, then you would have the better of this argument, BBM.
But it plainly is not.
Thanks to the lockdown of our economy, the near-total suspension of all education, sports, culture, elective healthcare/mental care, deferred justice in the courts, severely limited summer job/internship opportunities, and so on, we have created an enormous amount of secondary damage to our nation. We are only just seeing the beginnings of it - - in the form of small-business closures, increased crime rates, increased suicides, decreased tax revenues for our communities and (at least I believe) the strife that is flaring up in so many of our larger cities.
And for what? Except for the first two weeks, when Americans were mostly compliant, these mission-creep shutdown attempts at closing down our entire nation were destined to fail. Our politicians got to pretend to be God, but without the moral judgment nor the righteous power to back it up. Dabigblue’s visit to a very crowded Norfolk beach should not have come as any kind of surprise to anyone.
I fully agree, the WuFlu is highly contagious. And I further agree that it is very dangerous, and potentially lethal, to a meaningful portion of our population. But we are long past the point for scoldings and futile gestures. Time to open back up and deal with the actual disease that has been unleashed upon us by the lying Chinese, and stop creating yet more problems for ourselves for no good purpose.
Im not sure if you meant it pr not but you seem to be blaming China when we should look in the mirror at why the U.S. has done so poorly handling this virus compared to most every other country.
Exactly Giles. It seems we pay a premium on personal freedom, but very little on personal responsibility to self and others. We are a very entitled nation.
With great freedom, comes great responsibility. If we are too irresponsible or immature to handle the power of freedom, someone will take it away from us.
(07-05-2020 06:23 PM)VB Monarch Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly Giles. It seems we pay a premium on personal freedom, but very little on personal responsibility to self and others. We are a very entitled nation.
Your statement is true. But not (at least not in my assessment) in the way that you, Giles, 78 and monarx intend.
We are a free nation. We allow people to protest openly, even at the cost of a highly contagious disease. Unlike Red China, we do not stifle dissent. We do not weld citizens into their own apartments so as to cover up a virulent threat. We do not bald-face lie to the rest of the planet about what is going with our population.
This disease was never going to be contained. Not in a nation with our level of freedom. Aside from the initial few weeks - - during which there was a legitimate need to “flatten the curve” to allow our hospitals and healthcare system to not become overwhelmed - - little to no purpose served by our politically driven lockdowns. They did not contain the disease, and never had any realistic chance of doing so.
These efforts instead were just political theater. The disease still spread, as if was always going to do. And we are only now just starting to face to the enormous secondary costs.
Red China clearly gets the primary blame for this. That is a dangerous, dishonorable country. But, yes, you and others are correct. We share in some of this blame. Not for our unwillingness to act like obedient schoolchildren. That was never going to happen. But instead for allowing our leaders, on both sides, to treat this like a political weapon to be wielded against ourselves, instead of as a problem to be confronted head on.
Shame on us.
(07-05-2020 12:24 PM)Justanodufan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-05-2020 12:17 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (07-05-2020 12:13 PM)Justanodufan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-05-2020 09:42 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (07-05-2020 09:29 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Where would someone go read this if they wanted to actually believe the flu is as serious as Covid?
For people in that age demographic, the death rate for flu is almost identical to COVID. I'm not going to continue doing the research for you because you refuse to accept science and data.. It's been posted before. Just to reiterate. 125 people in the 18-25 demo have died in the entire US.
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
So the 20-30% decrease in lung capacity is ok, because they don’t die?
You seem to think that there aren’t lasting side effects that can alter a kid’s life. Oh wait I forgot, you actually think that these kids are getting tested daily.
Can you cite that? A lot of mention about lasting effects here, but not a single citation of the widespread long-term effects of COVID in young healthy people. Honestly, this board is the only place I have even heard that it is a significant issue.
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
I believe it was you who said:
“I am not going to continue doing the research for you because you refuse to accept science and data”
Therefore, I suggest you log off this message board and go do some research.
I said that because I have posted the data previously, and people continue to pretend like they didn't see it. There has been no data posted here relating the number of people, specifically 18-25 year old people, who have developed long term lung issues from COVID, nor has there been any science posted that supports the idea that there will be widespread long term lung issues.
(07-05-2020 03:31 PM)Big4Blue Wrote: [ -> ] (07-05-2020 02:13 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ] (07-05-2020 01:41 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, but the overwhelming majority of those other things are not contagious and won't infect and possibly kill that young persons, parents, grandparents, and next door neighbor. It is all well and good that you feel that young people have a low mortality rate, but those young people are the drives of most of the infections at this point in time becasue of thier fluid and vast social circles.
This is most certainly an important distinction. And if the highly contagious nature of this gift from Red China were the only differential, then you would have the better of this argument, BBM.
But it plainly is not.
Thanks to the lockdown of our economy, the near-total suspension of all education, sports, culture, elective healthcare/mental care, deferred justice in the courts, severely limited summer job/internship opportunities, and so on, we have created an enormous amount of secondary damage to our nation. We are only just seeing the beginnings of it - - in the form of small-business closures, increased crime rates, increased suicides, decreased tax revenues for our communities and (at least I believe) the strife that is flaring up in so many of our larger cities.
And for what? Except for the first two weeks, when Americans were mostly compliant, these mission-creep shutdown attempts at closing down our entire nation were destined to fail. Our politicians got to pretend to be God, but without the moral judgment nor the righteous power to back it up. Dabigblue’s visit to a very crowded Norfolk beach should not have come as any kind of surprise to anyone.
I fully agree, the WuFlu is highly contagious. And I further agree that it is very dangerous, and potentially lethal, to a meaningful portion of our population. But we are long past the point for scoldings and futile gestures. Time to open back up and deal with the actual disease that has been unleashed upon us by the lying Chinese, and stop creating yet more problems for ourselves for no good purpose.
Given the climbing numbers of infection rates in areas that have opened/reopened too fast, as well as the poor behavior of so many citizens (many motivated by macho political statements that salute selfishness), it looks like doctors’ warnings and government actions were appropriate.
Care and caution are still more important than convenience.
BTW... Don’t put this all on the Chinese. Yes, they withheld information, But our ‘deep state’ intelligence professionals knew early and sounded the alarm. We talk a good game in this country about self responsibility...past time our society practiced some...
This is nonsense. Those places that "opened too fast" opened fully 2 months before the recent increase in positives. Further, places like California that did not open at all are seeing similar increases in cases to those places you claim "opened too fast", and there are places throughout the country that never closed, and never saw any significant number of cases.
(07-05-2020 06:06 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (07-05-2020 02:13 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ] (07-05-2020 01:41 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, but the overwhelming majority of those other things are not contagious and won't infect and possibly kill that young persons, parents, grandparents, and next door neighbor. It is all well and good that you feel that young people have a low mortality rate, but those young people are the drives of most of the infections at this point in time becasue of thier fluid and vast social circles.
This is most certainly an important distinction. And if the highly contagious nature of this gift from Red China were the only differential, then you would have the better of this argument, BBM.
But it plainly is not.
Thanks to the lockdown of our economy, the near-total suspension of all education, sports, culture, elective healthcare/mental care, deferred justice in the courts, severely limited summer job/internship opportunities, and so on, we have created an enormous amount of secondary damage to our nation. We are only just seeing the beginnings of it - - in the form of small-business closures, increased crime rates, increased suicides, decreased tax revenues for our communities and (at least I believe) the strife that is flaring up in so many of our larger cities.
And for what? Except for the first two weeks, when Americans were mostly compliant, these mission-creep shutdown attempts at closing down our entire nation were destined to fail. Our politicians got to pretend to be God, but without the moral judgment nor the righteous power to back it up. Dabigblue’s visit to a very crowded Norfolk beach should not have come as any kind of surprise to anyone.
I fully agree, the WuFlu is highly contagious. And I further agree that it is very dangerous, and potentially lethal, to a meaningful portion of our population. But we are long past the point for scoldings and futile gestures. Time to open back up and deal with the actual disease that has been unleashed upon us by the lying Chinese, and stop creating yet more problems for ourselves for no good purpose.
Im not sure if you meant it pr not but you seem to be blaming China when we should look in the mirror at why the U.S. has done so poorly handling this virus compared to most every other country.
Can you provide a list of countries, and a comparison of how poorly we have done? Last I saw, we are about on par with most of our "peer" nations once you adjust for population and understand that we have administered VASTLY more tests than any other nation, which obviously increases the number of positives that we see in the US. Further, if you remove one totally irresponsible region from the equation, the rest of the country has done as well as any country.
(07-05-2020 06:23 PM)VB Monarch Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly Giles. It seems we pay a premium on personal freedom, but very little on personal responsibility to self and others. We are a very entitled nation.
What would you have had individuals do to demonstrate a level of personal responsibility that is adequate for you?
(07-05-2020 08:28 PM)monarx Wrote: [ -> ]With great freedom, comes great responsibility. If we are too irresponsible or immature to handle the power of freedom, someone will take it away from us.
Or if our "moral betters" decide that we are not responsible enough, they will ignore our individual rights and demand we behave in a manner that will help them get elected in November.
There is a lot of talk about doing this wrong, or that too soon around here, with zero explanation of what would have been a better approach, or when it will not be too soon. Waiting for a vaccine that may or may not come is not an option. We were sold on the need to flatten the curve, keep hospitals from being overwhelmed, and an understanding that the virus would not go away because we locked ourselves away for a few weeks, well mission accomplished. If the idiots that were worried about whether or not we went to the beach would have paid a bit more attention to LTCs, they could have done some actual good, saved some actual lives...a ton of actual lives that nobody seems to care about when they are sitting at their keyboards wagging their fingers at the rubes who believe this country was built on the premise of individual liberty and the understanding that the public knows whats best for it far better than politicians do.
The uptick in cases started three weeks ago, no uptick in deaths yet. Should we wait two more weeks?
(07-06-2020 09:26 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]
The uptick in cases started three weeks ago, no uptick in deaths yet. Should we wait two more weeks?
4 months if my calculations are correct.
(07-06-2020 09:26 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]
The uptick in cases started three weeks ago, no uptick in deaths yet. Should we wait two more weeks?
What? But this can't be true. Everyone is telling us the country is on fire and COVID is killing everyone because lockdowns ended 2 months ago. These graphs must be hidden so that we can continue to push the narrative!
(07-06-2020 10:00 AM)smudge12 Wrote: [ -> ]The mortality rate is but one item though.
Besides the health issues associated with the virus, you have to focus on the microeconomic issues when people contract it.
Americans were already struggling financially before the pandemic, so getting the virus can be a huge financial strain on people. Medical bills, lost wages, and indirect costs (taking off to take care of someone). The fact that minorities and the economically disadvantaged are the ones most likely to get it is just piling on to groups who struggle the most.
And then you've got the macroeconomic issues like lost productivity, among so many other items.
Excellent that the mortality rate is decreasing, but the sharp increase in infections has real world negative effects.
The virus isn't going to disappear, so we better figure out how to protect the vulnerable population and deal with whatever else may come. We can't continue to have government-imposed consequences on economic activity, on top of what the virus is already causing.
I am all for another round of stimulus that supports people who take time off work because they have a confirmed case of COVID, and takes care of the healthcare needs of people, from free testing through the entire process of treating COVID, as long as it is a temporary measure, and comes in a clean bill that does not include funding for bridges and museums, and doesn't attempt to restructure the way we conduct our elections.