(04-17-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:46 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:41 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:36 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:27 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]Again, I am not forcing anyone to do anything. If you aren't comfortable, or if you are one of the relatively few Americans who is likely to die from the virus, you can, and should, choose to stay home, social distance, and definitely refrain from bringing contractors into your home.
Great idea. I will start taking courses on how to repair a broken furnace so as to not bring contractors into
my house. Maybe I will learn to rebuild a car engine too to avoid the asymptomatic mechanic who felt his rights were being stripped." No worries if he is marching around infecting others because he doesn't want to be stripped of his rights.
I don't understand what point you are trying to make. Under your preferred approach you would not be able to have any of those things fixed either, just in the process you would be prohibiting anyone else from getting those services and legislating away the contractor's ability to earn a living.
If the contractor enters my house with proof he was tested negative for the virus then let him come on in and earn a living. If he is some dope that ignores social distancing and is not tested than he shouldn't be risking other lives due to his ignorance.
So as long as he can show the guvment his papers he is aloud to participate in society. Got it.
It all sounds nice until that unchecked participation leads to your loved ones being hooked up to a ventilator. Go ahead. Down a cold one at a bar with 50 people, some of which are asymptomatic, then participate away when infecting others. Got it.
(04-17-2020 11:04 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:46 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:41 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:36 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ]Great idea. I will start taking courses on how to repair a broken furnace so as to not bring contractors into
my house. Maybe I will learn to rebuild a car engine too to avoid the asymptomatic mechanic who felt his rights were being stripped." No worries if he is marching around infecting others because he doesn't want to be stripped of his rights.
I don't understand what point you are trying to make. Under your preferred approach you would not be able to have any of those things fixed either, just in the process you would be prohibiting anyone else from getting those services and legislating away the contractor's ability to earn a living.
If the contractor enters my house with proof he was tested negative for the virus then let him come on in and earn a living. If he is some dope that ignores social distancing and is not tested than he shouldn't be risking other lives due to his ignorance.
So as long as he can show the guvment his papers he is aloud to participate in society. Got it.
It all sounds nice until that unchecked participation leads to your loved ones being hooked up to a ventilator. Go ahead. Down a cold one at a bar with 50 people, some of which are asymptomatic, then participate away when infecting others. Got it.
The same could be said for the flu, which by the way has killed 10 times more Virginians than COVID this season.
If your logic is that you don't trust other citizens to make the right decisions, why the hell should I be forced to live with yours? Do I not have the same right as you to be skeptical? Is this not why we have a legislative process, and do not allow a single person to make up the rules as they go, like our governors currently are?
(04-17-2020 11:08 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:04 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:46 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:41 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand what point you are trying to make. Under your preferred approach you would not be able to have any of those things fixed either, just in the process you would be prohibiting anyone else from getting those services and legislating away the contractor's ability to earn a living.
If the contractor enters my house with proof he was tested negative for the virus then let him come on in and earn a living. If he is some dope that ignores social distancing and is not tested than he shouldn't be risking other lives due to his ignorance.
So as long as he can show the guvment his papers he is aloud to participate in society. Got it.
It all sounds nice until that unchecked participation leads to your loved ones being hooked up to a ventilator. Go ahead. Down a cold one at a bar with 50 people, some of which are asymptomatic, then participate away when infecting others. Got it.
The same could be said for the flu, which by the way has killed 10 times more Virginians than COVID this season.
Stop comparing the flu to this virus. It isn't the least bit analogous. Look at the rate of contagiousness.
(04-17-2020 10:12 AM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:06 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 09:45 AM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 09:23 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 08:20 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]This is the logic people have to tackle. Why aren't there any cases? (social distancing) How many cases do they have if they open it up right now? Does opening up now ruin the entire reason for having the social distancing measures?
That is one question that needs to be tackled.
Another question that has to be tackled is how far do we let this go. Is a global depression an acceptable outcome to save X number of lives? There is a tipping point and there needs to be some discussion around it. It may make me sound like an awful human being, but I don't think saving even a million lives is worth the devastation that would be caused by a global depression. And frankly, that is not a callous take from me. I have great empathy for the people affected by this virus, both directly AND indirectly, and I happen to believe we would be doing more people, more good by avoiding that economic devastation and the inevitable death, destruction, depression, anxiety, substance abuse and poverty it would ultimately lead to.
As much as it pains me to say it, I am with you on this. I can't find a way to make myself believe the alternative is the way to go.Trust me, I really want to convince myself that saving all lives is the most important factor in this.
Well, isn't this pretty obvious? Why would you need to convince yourself that saving lives is the most important variable?
Well it is, but the economic impact can cause so many issues that lead to alternative deaths.
In 1 case you have no choice on hypothetically dying.
(04-17-2020 11:10 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:08 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:04 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:46 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ]If the contractor enters my house with proof he was tested negative for the virus then let him come on in and earn a living. If he is some dope that ignores social distancing and is not tested than he shouldn't be risking other lives due to his ignorance.
So as long as he can show the guvment his papers he is aloud to participate in society. Got it.
It all sounds nice until that unchecked participation leads to your loved ones being hooked up to a ventilator. Go ahead. Down a cold one at a bar with 50 people, some of which are asymptomatic, then participate away when infecting others. Got it.
The same could be said for the flu, which by the way has killed 10 times more Virginians than COVID this season.
Stop comparing the flu to this virus. It isn't the least bit analogous. Look at the rate of contagiousness.
I'm not comparing the viruses, I'm comparing the death toll. Isn't it useful data to help us understand where we stand in this situation? Shouldn't VA consider the fact that the Gov has shut the entire state down until June for a virus that has killed fewer than 150 people? Does the response seem proportional when you look at the actual data in actual places, rather than the big numbers your favorite news channel keeps flashing on the screen?
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(04-17-2020 10:13 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:04 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 09:23 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 08:20 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 08:01 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]Wait and see doesn't really work when 22 million people lose their jobs in 1 month. Most places in the country have very few cases, 25% of the counties in the US have zero cases. Those places need to open back up ASAP.
This is the logic people have to tackle. Why aren't there any cases? (social distancing) How many cases do they have if they open it up right now? Does opening up now ruin the entire reason for having the social distancing measures?
That is one question that needs to be tackled.
Another question that has to be tackled is how far do we let this go. Is a global depression an acceptable outcome to save X number of lives? There is a tipping point and there needs to be some discussion around it. It may make me sound like an awful human being, but I don't think saving even a million lives is worth the devastation that would be caused by a global depression. And frankly, that is not a callous take from me. I have great empathy for the people affected by this virus, both directly AND indirectly, and I happen to believe we would be doing more people, more good by avoiding that economic devastation and the inevitable death, destruction, depression, anxiety, substance abuse and poverty it would ultimately lead to.
What is a global depression?
Its a lot like a depression, but global.
So everyone is the world will be depressed?
(04-17-2020 11:10 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:08 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:04 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:46 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ]If the contractor enters my house with proof he was tested negative for the virus then let him come on in and earn a living. If he is some dope that ignores social distancing and is not tested than he shouldn't be risking other lives due to his ignorance.
So as long as he can show the guvment his papers he is aloud to participate in society. Got it.
It all sounds nice until that unchecked participation leads to your loved ones being hooked up to a ventilator. Go ahead. Down a cold one at a bar with 50 people, some of which are asymptomatic, then participate away when infecting others. Got it.
The same could be said for the flu, which by the way has killed 10 times more Virginians than COVID this season.
Stop comparing the flu to this virus. It isn't the least bit analogous. Look at the rate of contagiousness.
Before long they will be very similar. The flu has a lot more immunity as we are used to fighting it off. The Spanish Flu was much more contagious and deadly than this in it's first 2 years.
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(04-17-2020 11:19 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:13 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:04 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 09:23 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 08:20 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]This is the logic people have to tackle. Why aren't there any cases? (social distancing) How many cases do they have if they open it up right now? Does opening up now ruin the entire reason for having the social distancing measures?
That is one question that needs to be tackled.
Another question that has to be tackled is how far do we let this go. Is a global depression an acceptable outcome to save X number of lives? There is a tipping point and there needs to be some discussion around it. It may make me sound like an awful human being, but I don't think saving even a million lives is worth the devastation that would be caused by a global depression. And frankly, that is not a callous take from me. I have great empathy for the people affected by this virus, both directly AND indirectly, and I happen to believe we would be doing more people, more good by avoiding that economic devastation and the inevitable death, destruction, depression, anxiety, substance abuse and poverty it would ultimately lead to.
What is a global depression?
Its a lot like a depression, but global.
So everyone is the world will be depressed?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_(economics)
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(04-17-2020 10:17 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:07 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Testing has to be widely available before we open up anything. Without the ability to know who is spreading, any openings are dangerous.
I disagree. I don't think we need widely available testing before we open the playgrounds for people to play pickup hoops or to have a family picnic. But, that's just my opinion.
I dont understand how having healthy, asymptomatic people at the park spreading this virus is the answer. A family gathering is what lead to Chicago getting hammered.
(04-17-2020 11:01 AM)ccbengal Wrote: [ -> ]How about a little quarantine levity!...
Half of us are going to come out of this quarantine as amazing cooks. The other half will come out with a drinking problem.
I used to spin that toilet paper like I was on wheel of fortune. Now I turn it like I’m cracking a safe.
Still haven’t decided where to go for Easter……The Living Room or The Bedroom.
Every few days try your jeans on to make sure they still fit. Pajamas will have you believing all is well in the kingdom. I need to practice social-distancing from the refrigerator.
Homeschooling is going well. Two students were suspended for fighting and one teacher was fired for drinking on the job (my fav)
This morning I saw a neighbor talking to her cat. It was obvious she thought her cat understood her. I came into the house and told my dog. We had a good laugh over it.
So, after the quarantine, will the producers of My 600 Pound Life find me or do I find them?
Quarantine day 5: Went to this restaurant called The Kitchen. You have to gather all the ingredients and make your own meal. I have no clue how this place stays in business.
My body has absorbed so much soap and disinfectant lately that when I pee it cleans the toilet.
Day 5 of Homeschooling: One of these little monsters called in a bomb threat.
I’m so excited—it’s time to take out the garbage! What should I wear?
I hope the weather is good tomorrow for my trip to "Puerto Backyarda". ‘M getting tired of "Los Living room".
Classified Ad: Single man with toilet paper seeking woman with hand sanitizer for good clean fun.
Day 6 of Homeschooling: My child just said "I hope I don’t have the same teacher next year." I am offended.
Better 6 feet apart than 6 feet under. Stay safe
Good effort, but this boat is off the horizon and they've torn down the dock.
(04-17-2020 11:08 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:04 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:46 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:41 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand what point you are trying to make. Under your preferred approach you would not be able to have any of those things fixed either, just in the process you would be prohibiting anyone else from getting those services and legislating away the contractor's ability to earn a living.
If the contractor enters my house with proof he was tested negative for the virus then let him come on in and earn a living. If he is some dope that ignores social distancing and is not tested than he shouldn't be risking other lives due to his ignorance.
So as long as he can show the guvment his papers he is aloud to participate in society. Got it.
It all sounds nice until that unchecked participation leads to your loved ones being hooked up to a ventilator. Go ahead. Down a cold one at a bar with 50 people, some of which are asymptomatic, then participate away when infecting others. Got it.
The same could be said for the flu, which by the way has killed 10 times more Virginians than COVID this season.
If your logic is that you don't trust other citizens to make the right decisions, why the hell should I be forced to live with yours? Do I not have the same right as you to be skeptical? Is this not why we have a legislative process, and do not allow a single person to make up the rules as they go, like our governors currently are?
Because of the measures you want to eliminate.
(04-17-2020 11:19 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:10 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:08 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:04 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]So as long as he can show the guvment his papers he is aloud to participate in society. Got it.
It all sounds nice until that unchecked participation leads to your loved ones being hooked up to a ventilator. Go ahead. Down a cold one at a bar with 50 people, some of which are asymptomatic, then participate away when infecting others. Got it.
The same could be said for the flu, which by the way has killed 10 times more Virginians than COVID this season.
Stop comparing the flu to this virus. It isn't the least bit analogous. Look at the rate of contagiousness.
I'm not comparing the viruses, I'm comparing the death toll. Isn't it useful data to help us understand where we stand in this situation? Shouldn't VA consider the fact that the Gov has shut the entire state down until June for a virus that has killed fewer than 150 people? Does the response seem proportional when you look at the actual data in actual places, rather than the big numbers your favorite news channel keeps flashing on the screen?
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This has no logic. It has only killed that many because of the social distancing measures. Do you understand why your logic doesn't make sense in that respect?
(04-17-2020 11:22 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:19 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:13 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:04 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 09:23 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]That is one question that needs to be tackled.
Another question that has to be tackled is how far do we let this go. Is a global depression an acceptable outcome to save X number of lives? There is a tipping point and there needs to be some discussion around it. It may make me sound like an awful human being, but I don't think saving even a million lives is worth the devastation that would be caused by a global depression. And frankly, that is not a callous take from me. I have great empathy for the people affected by this virus, both directly AND indirectly, and I happen to believe we would be doing more people, more good by avoiding that economic devastation and the inevitable death, destruction, depression, anxiety, substance abuse and poverty it would ultimately lead to.
What is a global depression?
Its a lot like a depression, but global.
So everyone is the world will be depressed?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_(economics)
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So you expect this to last at least 2 years?
(04-17-2020 11:22 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:17 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:07 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Testing has to be widely available before we open up anything. Without the ability to know who is spreading, any openings are dangerous.
I disagree. I don't think we need widely available testing before we open the playgrounds for people to play pickup hoops or to have a family picnic. But, that's just my opinion.
I dont understand how having healthy, asymptomatic people at the park spreading this virus is the answer. A family gathering is what lead to Chicago getting hammered.
Six months from now this logic is still going to apply. Are we really going to shut down everything until a test is available to everyone?
(04-17-2020 11:26 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:08 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:04 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:57 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:46 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ]If the contractor enters my house with proof he was tested negative for the virus then let him come on in and earn a living. If he is some dope that ignores social distancing and is not tested than he shouldn't be risking other lives due to his ignorance.
So as long as he can show the guvment his papers he is aloud to participate in society. Got it.
It all sounds nice until that unchecked participation leads to your loved ones being hooked up to a ventilator. Go ahead. Down a cold one at a bar with 50 people, some of which are asymptomatic, then participate away when infecting others. Got it.
The same could be said for the flu, which by the way has killed 10 times more Virginians than COVID this season.
If your logic is that you don't trust other citizens to make the right decisions, why the hell should I be forced to live with yours? Do I not have the same right as you to be skeptical? Is this not why we have a legislative process, and do not allow a single person to make up the rules as they go, like our governors currently are?
Because of the measures you want to eliminate.
Presumably the measures have eliminated some flu deaths as well... if they even are doing anything. There is some evidence to the contrary that I will not bother reiterating.
(04-17-2020 11:27 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:19 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:10 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:08 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:04 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ]It all sounds nice until that unchecked participation leads to your loved ones being hooked up to a ventilator. Go ahead. Down a cold one at a bar with 50 people, some of which are asymptomatic, then participate away when infecting others. Got it.
The same could be said for the flu, which by the way has killed 10 times more Virginians than COVID this season.
Stop comparing the flu to this virus. It isn't the least bit analogous. Look at the rate of contagiousness.
I'm not comparing the viruses, I'm comparing the death toll. Isn't it useful data to help us understand where we stand in this situation? Shouldn't VA consider the fact that the Gov has shut the entire state down until June for a virus that has killed fewer than 150 people? Does the response seem proportional when you look at the actual data in actual places, rather than the big numbers your favorite news channel keeps flashing on the screen?
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This has no logic. It has only killed that many because of the social distancing measures. Do you understand why your logic doesn't make sense in that respect?
Again... Sweden and a handful of states in this country have not locked down, and do not look like they have been effected by that choice. And then there is the prior referenced Israeli study that shows little to no effects from social distancing.
You speak in absolutes about things that are not settled.
(04-17-2020 11:43 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:22 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:17 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 10:07 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Testing has to be widely available before we open up anything. Without the ability to know who is spreading, any openings are dangerous.
I disagree. I don't think we need widely available testing before we open the playgrounds for people to play pickup hoops or to have a family picnic. But, that's just my opinion.
I dont understand how having healthy, asymptomatic people at the park spreading this virus is the answer. A family gathering is what lead to Chicago getting hammered.
Six months from now this logic is still going to apply. Are we really going to shut down everything until a test is available to everyone?
Test/Vaccine or herd immunity....I would hope. Opening before that will likely be a disaster.
(04-17-2020 12:03 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:27 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:19 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:10 AM)PhillyFlorz Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020 11:08 AM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]The same could be said for the flu, which by the way has killed 10 times more Virginians than COVID this season.
Stop comparing the flu to this virus. It isn't the least bit analogous. Look at the rate of contagiousness.
I'm not comparing the viruses, I'm comparing the death toll. Isn't it useful data to help us understand where we stand in this situation? Shouldn't VA consider the fact that the Gov has shut the entire state down until June for a virus that has killed fewer than 150 people? Does the response seem proportional when you look at the actual data in actual places, rather than the big numbers your favorite news channel keeps flashing on the screen?
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This has no logic. It has only killed that many because of the social distancing measures. Do you understand why your logic doesn't make sense in that respect?
Again... Sweden and a handful of states in this country have not locked down, and do not look like they have been effected by that choice. And then there is the prior referenced Israeli study that shows little to no effects from social distancing.
You speak in absolutes about things that are not settled.
Sweden-
https://nypost.com/2020/04/16/sweden-gra...-lockdown/
The Israeli study does not claim what you say it does. It says the virus has a pattern; whether you social distance or not. Same guy also said he supports social distancing.