(09-01-2020 06:23 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 06:15 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 04:27 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 03:29 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 02:56 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ]But the evidence shows that it does not in fact work.
Shouldn't we just trust the doctors to make those decisions? What happened to the Government shouldn't get between patients and their doctors making healthcare decisions?
Why should we let Doctors prescribe medicine that is proven to not help? FWIW, I spoke to a Doctor friend about this (not that he would prescribing this medicine but he knows more than all of us on it). The medicine doesn't work...its proven in controlled studies. And it can be very harmful to people if they have underlying conditions.
Its funny people are claiming this is a political ploy and not just ...you know science. Especially when the only reason it would be a political ploy is because Trump went around touting it (which would have been to his benefit) despite science proving otherwise.
Would you rather listen to people that study this or to circumstantial evidence of Doctors prescribe it and having people survive something that has a 99% survival rate?
I can (did) show you studies that say it does work. There are tons of anecdotal stories of doctors having documented success, there are Ivy league infectious disease experts saying it works, and you fall back on a couple of basically debunked studies that it doesn't work to reinforce your narrative.
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Those were not controlled studies u less I missed one.
Many many many drugs are used without a controlled study.
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I dont know the truth of that but i would hope that any drug that could be harmful to people would have to go through controlled studies.
(09-01-2020 06:40 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]I dont know the truth of that but i would hope that any drug that could be harmful to people would have to go through controlled studies.
HCQ has a 65 year history of being safe. What we are talking about here is off label use, which happens all the time with all kinds of drugs. Off label use does not require a controlled study. It's not like we only have a bunch of quacks like those idiots that had a press conference in DC advocating for HCQ, some of the leading infectious disease and epidemiologists in the world are advocating for it.
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(09-01-2020 07:15 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 06:40 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]I dont know the truth of that but i would hope that any drug that could be harmful to people would have to go through controlled studies.
HCQ has a 65 year history of being safe. What we are talking about here is off label use, which happens all the time with all kinds of drugs. Off label use does not require a controlled study. It's not like we only have a bunch of quacks like those idiots that had a press conference in DC advocating for HCQ, some of the leading infectious disease and epidemiologists in the world are advocating for it.
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In controlled settings with people that do not have certain conditions, it is considered safe. Though, its proven to not have a positive impacto on COVID.
(09-01-2020 08:52 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 07:15 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 06:40 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]I dont know the truth of that but i would hope that any drug that could be harmful to people would have to go through controlled studies.
HCQ has a 65 year history of being safe. What we are talking about here is off label use, which happens all the time with all kinds of drugs. Off label use does not require a controlled study. It's not like we only have a bunch of quacks like those idiots that had a press conference in DC advocating for HCQ, some of the leading infectious disease and epidemiologists in the world are advocating for it.
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In controlled settings with people that do not have certain conditions, it is considered safe. Though, its proven to not have a positive impacto on COVID.
Why do you keep stating that as fact? It 100% is not a settled fact. Please reference your studies, because the ones I have seen have been debunked. Coach posted several in addition to the one I sent that support the efficacy of HCQ. I have yet to see any evidence from you to support your absolute position.
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(09-01-2020 06:40 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]I dont know the truth of that but i would hope that any drug that could be harmful to people would have to go through controlled studies.
Dude, all drugs are harmful to people in one way or another. They are necessary and help, but all have harmful side effects.
(09-02-2020 05:41 AM)84Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 06:40 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]I dont know the truth of that but i would hope that any drug that could be harmful to people would have to go through controlled studies.
Dude, all drugs are harmful to people in one way or another. They are necessary and help, but all have harmful side effects.
But this one isn’t necessary and doesnt help. And has very serious side effects like death.
https://www.poison.org/articles/chloroqu...hloroquine
This is an interesting read. Not sure about the scientific validity, or what it means for how we approach it, but interesting, nonetheless.
https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomp...cb8eba9d63
One thing in particular stood out to me, was the discussion in there about Vitamin D. It could be part of the reason that people who spend time outside, generally don't seem to get the virus at the same rate as others.
Quote:Interestingly, Jacobson’s team also suggests vitamin D as a potentially useful Covid-19 drug. The vitamin is involved in the RAS system and could prove helpful by reducing levels of another compound, known as REN. Again, this could stop potentially deadly bradykinin storms from forming. The researchers note that vitamin D has already been shown to help those with Covid-19. The vitamin is readily available over the counter, and around 20% of the population is deficient. If indeed the vitamin proves effective at reducing the severity of bradykinin storms, it could be an easy, relatively safe way to reduce the severity of the virus.
(09-01-2020 02:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 01:33 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 01:10 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]Seriously, how do we get rid of this fool?
He was specifically asked what the targets are to open up Virginia, and he absolutely refused to answer.
That is how you know it is all about politics.
For those who agree with the Governor, do you think he should lay out specific goals or do you think ambiguity is the right approach?
(09-02-2020 08:11 AM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 02:32 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 02:28 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]It has not. Thats the entire reason that its not approved. It does not work well with anyone that is older or has any condition such as diabetes, high blood pressure, heart condition, etc. It was put through clinical trials and failed. Why can't people accept this?
Because of this: https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/h...ment-study
Henry Ford study was seriously flawed and panned by researchers for not being randomized. The group that was given HCQ was twice as likely to also have received steroids, had a lower rate of heart disease and here is the breakdown in age between those that received HCQ and those that did not:
No drugs
Median age: 71
Average age: 68.1
over 65 years old: 64%
Received drugs
Median age: 60
Average age: 63
over 65 years old: 45-49%
Not hard to see that the group that received HCQ would have a better survival rate with or without HCQ
And this: https://hcqtrial.com/
These charts by some unknown group show death per 100K in different countries and whether they gave HCQ. What it doesn't say is all the ones that are showing lower death per 100K also had lower cases per 100K (whether they're honest or not, Russia?, Cuba?). If you only have 100 total cases give them HCQ and they all die then you will show up in the green group and be touted as a success for treating the illness with HCQ. Again, not rocket science
And this: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/...20178772v1
Don't know about this one. It's pretty recent and hasn't been peer reviewed.
All of the double blind randomized tests with placebos are showing that you might as well administer sugar pills.
Even if it doesn't work for all patients, shouldn't those for whom it might work have access to it?
There are a couple of points to consider with regard to the studies that have shown HCQ to be ineffective. I am not sure which studies are being referenced, so I can't be specific, but there have been issues with how HCQ has been administered in some studies. HCQ is specifically shown to be effective when administered early, and may be ineffective without combining it with Zinc and Z Pack and those variables have been ignored in studies I have seen. The most reported on study which was conducted at the VA has been deemed useless, even by the director of the VA, if that is one of the studies being cited. It appears that that study was created with the specific purpose of reaching a desired outcome.
(09-02-2020 07:32 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 02:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 01:33 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 01:10 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]Seriously, how do we get rid of this fool?
He was specifically asked what the targets are to open up Virginia, and he absolutely refused to answer.
That is how you know it is all about politics.
For those who agree with the Governor, do you think he should lay out specific goals or do you think ambiguity is the right approach?
Since our reliably moronic president has just announced a CDC-justified, across-the-board suspension of residential eviction (not just limited to those tenants in federally supported housing), it's pretty hard to work up much additional anger at Governor Moonwalk.
I honestly am at the point that we may just need the entire system to collapse. We can then start afresh. Smudge, your dreams are about to come true. You can start working up your plans for a socialist utopia.
Well if the news is right, we could be looking at a vaccine by November which would be good news for Basketball, Volleyball, and the spring sports. Everyone cross your fingers...and then begin the debate about whether vaccines can be required.
(09-03-2020 07:44 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]Well if the news is right, we could be looking at a vaccine by November which would be good news for Basketball, Volleyball, and the spring sports. Everyone cross your fingers...and then begin the debate about whether vaccines can be required.
I read that but it doesn't really say that a vaccine will be ready just for states to be prepared for mass distribution starting then. I hope so assuming it's sufficiently tested first.
(09-03-2020 07:44 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]Well if the news is right, we could be looking at a vaccine by November which would be good news for Basketball, Volleyball, and the spring sports. Everyone cross your fingers...and then begin the debate about whether vaccines can be required.
Mind boggling. We haven't had a vaccine ready for mass distribution in less than 4 years, and now all of a sudden....Fishy.
(09-02-2020 07:32 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 02:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 01:33 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 01:10 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]Seriously, how do we get rid of this fool?
He was specifically asked what the targets are to open up Virginia, and he absolutely refused to answer.
That is how you know it is all about politics.
For those who agree with the Governor, do you think he should lay out specific goals or do you think ambiguity is the right approach?
So, since no one is willing to answer my question, is it safe to assume that we should be prepared to live under the Governor’s thumb until a vaccine is developed and deployed?
(09-03-2020 11:29 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2020 07:32 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 02:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 01:33 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 01:10 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]Seriously, how do we get rid of this fool?
He was specifically asked what the targets are to open up Virginia, and he absolutely refused to answer.
That is how you know it is all about politics.
For those who agree with the Governor, do you think he should lay out specific goals or do you think ambiguity is the right approach?
So, since no one is willing to answer my question, is it safe to assume that we should be prepared to live under the Governor’s thumb until a vaccine is developed and deployed?
No, there is just no point in debating. The facts are that we elect mayors, governors, city council, presidents, senators, and congressmen to make decisions on our behalf. It is our right to ***** about them, but they are the decisions that are made based on the election process that we have. We do not have the right to just ignore the things that we do not agree with. So complain all you want about Ralph as i will complain about the Chump in the presidents seat. But we still have to honor the election and the laws and rules that are passed down to us. if we don't like what is happening, we elect new people.
(09-03-2020 11:46 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote: [ -> ] (09-03-2020 11:29 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2020 07:32 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 02:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (09-01-2020 01:33 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]He was specifically asked what the targets are to open up Virginia, and he absolutely refused to answer.
That is how you know it is all about politics.
For those who agree with the Governor, do you think he should lay out specific goals or do you think ambiguity is the right approach?
So, since no one is willing to answer my question, is it safe to assume that we should be prepared to live under the Governor’s thumb until a vaccine is developed and deployed?
No, there is just no point in debating. The facts are that we elect mayors, governors, city council, presidents, senators, and congressmen to make decisions on our behalf. It is our right to ***** about them, but they are the decisions that are made based on the election process that we have. We do not have the right to just ignore the things that we do not agree with. So complain all you want about Ralph as i will complain about the Chump in the presidents seat. But we still have to honor the election and the laws and rules that are passed down to us. if we don't like what is happening, we elect new people.
I dont think it was a debate...
He asked a question. Whether your answer sparks debate is another thing but you sound like the DNC opting to have no debates. Avoiding because you dont have any straws to grab?
Damn right we're going to elect new people because Baby Killer Northam is a **** storm just like Mayor Stoney running Richmond City. Really could care less if Richmond burns though because I moved from there a long time ago.
Out of all 50 states Virginia stands in the losers bracket with New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Wyoming, Washington, Oregon, and California. Sounds like a bunch of great commie company to be with.
Lockdowns still not political? LOL Good one.