CSNbbs

(09-27-2020 07:16 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]It is 100% the wrong question to ask which political side was more responsible for the virus. Neither was responsible. The virus was sprung upon us by a lying, authoritarian nation, and covered up by a naive-at-best, complicit-at-worst World Health Organization.

The more pertinent question is which side will be the first to stop misusing this disease for political advantage. It is causing more harm to our nation than the disease itself.

^this. Post of the thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(09-27-2020 07:46 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2020 07:28 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2020 08:25 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2020 01:43 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2020 01:22 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]Deaths per 100K:

NY- 168 (Rank 1)
NJ- 177 (Rank 2)
FL - 26 (Rank 24)
CA - 21 ( Rank 28)

Do you really think there are more cases in FL than NY. Do you completely discount the monumental increase in testing between the start of the NY wave and the FL wave?

Further EACH of the top 10 states for deaths per 100k is a Dem run state, which translates to lockdown state for the purpose of this discussion.

Care to revisit in December? The difference is NY is over the hump and TX and FL are still on the upward side.

Not quite December, but here’s our update:

NJ (1st) - 181
NY (2) - 170
FL (12) - 65
TX (18) - 53.5
CA (26) - 39
VA (27) - 36.7

9 of the top 10 from states with Dem Governors (Mississippi is 7th).

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicato...desc%22%7D

Why do you think that is? What about democrats caused more deaths? What factors played into to explain why?

I’m not sure if you’re asking me, as I only included that note because it was in the original discussion.

But, to be honest, I have no idea why the states at the top of the death toll were run by Dems. And frankly, I don’t think it was a causation thing.

However, one thing to which I would point is that many of the states run by Dems had the strictest lockdown rules and still ended up with the highest death rates. I’d argue that the virus is gonna virus, and this data point lends credence to the fact that the lockdown measures don’t work nearly as well as we’re led to believe.

They generally have higher population density and most have a heavy reliance on mass transit and elevators. Many in the NE corridor forced nursing homes to take COVID cases. Most on the list were hit early when we knew less about the virus and treatment had not evolved. There is a combination of factors. Politics have little to do with it. As you said the virus is going to virus.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(09-27-2020 07:46 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2020 07:28 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2020 08:25 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2020 01:43 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2020 01:22 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]Deaths per 100K:

NY- 168 (Rank 1)
NJ- 177 (Rank 2)
FL - 26 (Rank 24)
CA - 21 ( Rank 28)

Do you really think there are more cases in FL than NY. Do you completely discount the monumental increase in testing between the start of the NY wave and the FL wave?

Further EACH of the top 10 states for deaths per 100k is a Dem run state, which translates to lockdown state for the purpose of this discussion.

Care to revisit in December? The difference is NY is over the hump and TX and FL are still on the upward side.

Not quite December, but here’s our update:

NJ (1st) - 181
NY (2) - 170
FL (12) - 65
TX (18) - 53.5
CA (26) - 39
VA (27) - 36.7

9 of the top 10 from states with Dem Governors (Mississippi is 7th).

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicato...desc%22%7D

Why do you think that is? What about democrats caused more deaths? What factors played into to explain why?

I’m not sure if you’re asking me, as I only included that note because it was in the original discussion.

But, to be honest, I have no idea why the states at the top of the death toll were run by Dems. And frankly, I don’t think it was a causation thing.

However, one thing to which I would point is that many of the states run by Dems had the strictest lockdown rules and still ended up with the highest death rates. I’d argue that the virus is gonna virus, and this data point lends credence to the fact that the lockdown measures don’t work nearly as well as we’re led to believe.

They generally have higher population density and most have a heavy reliance on mass transit and elevators. Many in the NE corridor forced nursing homes to take COVID cases. Most on the list were hit early when we knew less about the virus and treatment had not evolved. There is a combination of factors. Politics have little to do with it. As you said the virus is going to virus.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(09-28-2020 06:38 AM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2020 07:46 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2020 07:28 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2020 08:25 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2020 01:43 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ]Care to revisit in December? The difference is NY is over the hump and TX and FL are still on the upward side.

Not quite December, but here’s our update:

NJ (1st) - 181
NY (2) - 170
FL (12) - 65
TX (18) - 53.5
CA (26) - 39
VA (27) - 36.7

9 of the top 10 from states with Dem Governors (Mississippi is 7th).

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicato...desc%22%7D

Why do you think that is? What about democrats caused more deaths? What factors played into to explain why?

I’m not sure if you’re asking me, as I only included that note because it was in the original discussion.

But, to be honest, I have no idea why the states at the top of the death toll were run by Dems. And frankly, I don’t think it was a causation thing.

However, one thing to which I would point is that many of the states run by Dems had the strictest lockdown rules and still ended up with the highest death rates. I’d argue that the virus is gonna virus, and this data point lends credence to the fact that the lockdown measures don’t work nearly as well as we’re led to believe.

They generally have higher population density and most have a heavy reliance on mass transit and elevators. Many in the NE corridor forced nursing homes to take COVID cases. Most on the list were hit early when we knew less about the virus and treatment had not evolved. There is a combination of factors. Politics have little to do with it. As you said the virus is going to virus.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the more significant point, which is the one that Coach makes, is that Democrat for the most part equals stronger lockdowns. The fact that those places with the stronger lockdowns are still among the worst hit states should cause us to question whether lockdowns accomplish anything. We also should not give a pass to those states that sent COVID positive patients back to nursing homes. That was the most disastrous government policy in this entire COVID event. Those responsible for that decision should be called to account for it.

This week’s numbers from campus:

466 tests, 3 positives, 1 symptomatic

(09-27-2020 07:46 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2020 07:28 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2020 08:25 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2020 01:43 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2020 01:22 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]Deaths per 100K:

NY- 168 (Rank 1)
NJ- 177 (Rank 2)
FL - 26 (Rank 24)
CA - 21 ( Rank 28)

Do you really think there are more cases in FL than NY. Do you completely discount the monumental increase in testing between the start of the NY wave and the FL wave?

Further EACH of the top 10 states for deaths per 100k is a Dem run state, which translates to lockdown state for the purpose of this discussion.

Care to revisit in December? The difference is NY is over the hump and TX and FL are still on the upward side.

Not quite December, but here’s our update:

NJ (1st) - 181
NY (2) - 170
FL (12) - 65
TX (18) - 53.5
CA (26) - 39
VA (27) - 36.7

9 of the top 10 from states with Dem Governors (Mississippi is 7th).

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicato...desc%22%7D

Why do you think that is? What about democrats caused more deaths? What factors played into to explain why?

I’m not sure if you’re asking me, as I only included that note because it was in the original discussion.

But, to be honest, I have no idea why the states at the top of the death toll were run by Dems. And frankly, I don’t think it was a causation thing.

However, one thing to which I would point is that many of the states run by Dems had the strictest lockdown rules and still ended up with the highest death rates. I’d argue that the virus is gonna virus, and this data point lends credence to the fact that the lockdown measures don’t work nearly as well as we’re led to believe.

Without doing a detailed statistical analysis, I just looked at some of the states that have been hit the hardest and looked at population density.

New Jersey (D)- 2nd
New York (D)- 12
Mass ®- 5th
Conn (D)-8th
Louisiana (D)- 29
Rhode Island (D) -4th
Mississippi ®- 38
DC- 1st
Arizona ® - 39
Michigan (D)- 24
Illinois (D) - 18
Georgia ®- 23

Now, Northern Mariana Islands, Samoa, Virgin Islands, Guam,and Puerto Rico are all in the top 10 in population density but I'm guessing somewhat isolated from the virus. (not sure on P.R.) So really, you could move most of them up 3-4 spots.

There appears to be a correlation in population density and success rate vs. Covid. We all know NY, Florida, etc. are not going to do will vs. Covid. When I read that, it also seems that the states that should have done better vs. Covid:

Arizona- 9th in deaths, 39th in pop density
Mississippi- 7th; 38
Louisiana- 5; 29

That probably have done better than expected:

Ohio- 25 - 16
Virginia- 27- 20
NC- 32 - 21

(09-27-2020 07:46 PM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2020 07:28 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2020 08:25 AM)ODUCoach Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2020 01:43 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-27-2020 01:22 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]Deaths per 100K:

NY- 168 (Rank 1)
NJ- 177 (Rank 2)
FL - 26 (Rank 24)
CA - 21 ( Rank 28)

Do you really think there are more cases in FL than NY. Do you completely discount the monumental increase in testing between the start of the NY wave and the FL wave?

Further EACH of the top 10 states for deaths per 100k is a Dem run state, which translates to lockdown state for the purpose of this discussion.

Care to revisit in December? The difference is NY is over the hump and TX and FL are still on the upward side.

Not quite December, but here’s our update:

NJ (1st) - 181
NY (2) - 170
FL (12) - 65
TX (18) - 53.5
CA (26) - 39
VA (27) - 36.7

9 of the top 10 from states with Dem Governors (Mississippi is 7th).

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicato...desc%22%7D

Why do you think that is? What about democrats caused more deaths? What factors played into to explain why?

I’m not sure if you’re asking me, as I only included that note because it was in the original discussion.

But, to be honest, I have no idea why the states at the top of the death toll were run by Dems. And frankly, I don’t think it was a causation thing.

However, one thing to which I would point is that many of the states run by Dems had the strictest lockdown rules and still ended up with the highest death rates. I’d argue that the virus is gonna virus, and this data point lends credence to the fact that the lockdown measures don’t work nearly as well as we’re led to believe.

Without doing a detailed statistical analysis, I just looked at some of the states that have been hit the hardest.

New Jersey (D)- 2nd
New York (D)- 12
Mass ®- 5th
Conn (D)-8th
Louisiana (D)- 29
Rhode Island (D) -4th
Mississippi ®- 38
DC- 1st
Arizona ® - 39
Michigan (D)- 24
Illinois (D) - 18
Georgia ®- 23

Now, Northern Mariana Islands, Samoa, Virgin Islands, Guam,and Puerto Rico are all in the top 10 in population density but I'm guessing somewhat isolated from the virus. (not sure on P.R.) So really, you could move most of them up 3-4 spots.

There appears to be a correlation in population density and success rate vs. Covid. We all know NY, Florida, etc. are not going to do will vs. Covid. When I read that, it also seems that the states that should have done better vs. Covid:

Arizona- 9th in deaths, 39th in pop density
Mississippi- 7th; 38
Louisiana- 5; 29

That probably have done better than expected:

Ohio- 25 - 16
Virginia- 27- 20
NC- 32 - 21

(09-27-2020 07:16 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]It is 100% the wrong question to ask which political side was more responsible for the virus. Neither was responsible. The virus was sprung upon us by a lying, authoritarian nation, and covered up by a naive-at-best, complicit-at-worst World Health Organization.

The more pertinent question is which side will be the first to stop misusing this disease for political advantage. It is causing more harm to our nation than the disease itself.

Dude, we knew about the visus towards the end of last year. We knew it and the president downplayed it for months....heck even into early March. Its not like it was sprung on us without knowing it was coming.

(09-27-2020 07:16 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]It is 100% the wrong question to ask which political side was more responsible for the virus. Neither was responsible. The virus was sprung upon us by a lying, authoritarian nation, and covered up by a naive-at-best, complicit-at-worst World Health Organization.

The more pertinent question is which side will be the first to stop misusing this disease for political advantage. It is causing more harm to our nation than the disease itself.

Dude, we knew about the visus towards the end of last year. We knew it and the president downplayed it for months....heck even into early March. Its not like it was sprung on us without knowing it was coming.

(09-28-2020 09:44 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2020 07:16 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]It is 100% the wrong question to ask which political side was more responsible for the virus. Neither was responsible. The virus was sprung upon us by a lying, authoritarian nation, and covered up by a naive-at-best, complicit-at-worst World Health Organization.

The more pertinent question is which side will be the first to stop misusing this disease for political advantage. It is causing more harm to our nation than the disease itself.

Dude, we knew about the visus towards the end of last year. We knew it and the president downplayed it for months....heck even into early March. Its not like it was sprung on us without knowing it was coming.

Giles, you are truly one of the most intellectually inconsistent posters on this board:

=> You insist on data links from those whose opinions differ from yours, yet then routinely dismiss the links that are then provided as being somehow unworthy of consideration for not measuring up to some arbitrary threshold of whom you consider to be an expert.

=> You happily offer up assessments suggesting that the virus was a potential 2mm-person killer for our nation, and then write off as self-proving the success we as a nation have had in reaching only 10% of that figure - - tragic losses all, but no where close to the figures being thrown around when we were instituting lockdowns back in March.

=> You persistently ignore the early blunders by some of your politically favored state governors, who managed to take out nursing homes wholesale early in the process. Do these mass-murdering, mostly Democrat governors deserve criticism? Or do they for some reason get a pass?

=> You pretend to be a life-long Republican, and then come out with statements that read like DNC press releases.




But, okay, I'll once again play along. Who exactly is the "we" in this latest bolded pronouncement?

==> Is the W.H.O. part of that "we", because if so they have some 'splainin to do regarding the directives they were offering up well past end of last year.

==> Were the governors who targeted nursing homes part of the "we" or do they not count?

==> Is Joe Biden part of the "we"? He was later than the president in coming around to the foreign-travel ban. Did he know about the disease by late last year?

==> Was the media generally part of "we"? Or does that only apply to media sources that you disagree with?




Giles, you very rightly insist on precision from those who you are debating. I respect you for that. But your unwillingness to hold yourself to the same standard is less admirable.

(09-28-2020 11:00 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-28-2020 09:44 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2020 07:16 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote: [ -> ]It is 100% the wrong question to ask which political side was more responsible for the virus. Neither was responsible. The virus was sprung upon us by a lying, authoritarian nation, and covered up by a naive-at-best, complicit-at-worst World Health Organization.

The more pertinent question is which side will be the first to stop misusing this disease for political advantage. It is causing more harm to our nation than the disease itself.

Dude, we knew about the visus towards the end of last year. We knew it and the president downplayed it for months....heck even into early March. Its not like it was sprung on us without knowing it was coming.

Giles, you are truly one of the most intellectually inconsistent posters on this board:

=> You insist on data links from those whose opinions differ from yours, yet then routinely dismiss the links that are then provided as being somehow unworthy of consideration for not measuring up to some arbitrary threshold of whom you consider to be an expert.
ok

=> You happily offer up assessments suggesting that the virus was a potential 2mm-person killer for our nation, and then write off as self-proving the success we as a nation have had in reaching only 10% of that figure - - tragic losses all, but no where close to the figures being thrown around when we were instituting lockdowns back in March.

2 million losses with no social distancing. We are at 200k and counting with some in place. What are we saying here?

=> You persistently ignore the early blunders by some of your politically favored state governors, who managed to take out nursing homes wholesale early in the process. Do these mass-murdering, mostly Democrat governors deserve criticism? Or do they for some reason get a pass?

Which governors are my politically favored? If any governor knowingly sent covid patients into nursing homes, they are at fault

=> You pretend to be a life-long Republican, and then come out with statements that read like DNC press releases.

I don't pretend to be anything. Part of the problem right now is people are blinded by their politcal party and thus, resort to defending every action of them. I am a lifelong republican, but I will not make excuses for our president and I refuse to vote for someone that is that has zero moral compass. Im not going to go to some righ wing conspiracy websites and try to distort information.

The virus was a potentially a killer of over a million people without any social distancing measures. We put some in place and are now over 200,000 and counting. What needs to be said? The social distancing measures have helped or not? What is the point here?

But, okay, I'll once again play along. Who exactly is the "we" in this latest bolded pronouncement?

We is everyone. This virus was known long time ago...well before the end of 2019. Even before it was claimed that warm weather will kill it

==> Is the W.H.O. part of that "we", because if so they have some 'splainin to do regarding the directives they were offering up well past end of last year.

Of course. Anyone that downplayed the virus needs to look in the mirror.

==> Were the governors who targeted nursing homes part of the "we" or do they not count?

If there are govenros that targeted nursing homes, of course they are at fault.

==> Is Joe Biden part of the "we"? He was later than the president in coming around to the foreign-travel ban. Did he know about the disease by late last year?

What part does Joe Biden play in this?

==> Was the media generally part of "we"? Or does that only apply to media sources that you disagree with?

Im confused on what you are saying here.



Giles, you very rightly insist on precision from those who you are debating. I respect you for that. But your unwillingness to hold yourself to the same standard is less admirable.

Ok

(09-28-2020 12:41 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.stripes.com/military-suicide...s-1.646595

Wouldnt waste your time posting stuff like this because in the end you're only going to get a DA response like before......something about grasping for straws or some ****.

(09-28-2020 01:15 PM)smudge12 Wrote: [ -> ]The increase in mental health issues speaks less to the Covid-19 crisis and more to the dismal nature of healthcare in America.

This pandemic has magnified how dire the economic and social situation is for so many Americans. While other nations have sensible safety nets, our citizens are being sent over the edge by one poorly-managed crisis.

That is your response to an article addressing increased suicide among military members during COVID - A group that has fully covered medical care provided by the government... like you want?

(09-28-2020 02:41 PM)smudge12 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-28-2020 01:39 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-28-2020 01:15 PM)smudge12 Wrote: [ -> ]The increase in mental health issues speaks less to the Covid-19 crisis and more to the dismal nature of healthcare in America.

This pandemic has magnified how dire the economic and social situation is for so many Americans. While other nations have sensible safety nets, our citizens are being sent over the edge by one poorly-managed crisis.

That is your response to an article addressing increased suicide among military members during COVID - A group that has fully covered medical care provided by the government... like you want?

Correct.

I think you're confusing incompetent governance with competent governance. Social safety nets are not big government; in fact it's what government is: a tool used by the People to efficiently allocate resources for themselves.

You can have small government, arguably smaller government, as investing back into the majority of people means long-term efficiencies, cost-reductions, increased labor value, and tough-to-quantify items such as increased happiness.

Historically, big government means corporate handouts, tax cuts for the rich, large military-industrial complexes, increased surveillance measure, etc. These items grow government as they're investments with low yields; in order to make-up for the inefficiency, society has to throw more resources into other portions of government. As time goes on, the larger bureaucracy to keep up the basic functions means you create more points of failure. With the VA, the MIC and for-profit healthcare industry have their hand in the honey pot.

Government works when it's actually used for the people (competence) and fails when it forgets why it exists (incompetence). It's a tale as old as time, from monarchies to republics and everything in between.

People want to see returns for their labor and at some point, get sick of government if they don't. Then they either resist, revolt, or reform.

This sounds like you should be voting Republican. Smaller government, less bureaucracy, more efficiencies... sign me up.

(09-28-2020 01:39 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-28-2020 01:15 PM)smudge12 Wrote: [ -> ]The increase in mental health issues speaks less to the Covid-19 crisis and more to the dismal nature of healthcare in America.

This pandemic has magnified how dire the economic and social situation is for so many Americans. While other nations have sensible safety nets, our citizens are being sent over the edge by one poorly-managed crisis.

That is your response to an article addressing increased suicide among military members during COVID - A group that has fully covered medical care provided by the government... like you want?

Military medical insurance is garbage. If you think it’s not, you most likely think the current administration is “winning”

If you don't like the military's government run medical insurance system, just wait until the government decides we all get to enjoy that system.

(09-28-2020 03:21 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]If you don't like the military's government run medical insurance system, just wait until the government decides we all get to enjoy that system.

LOL. Cause private insurance is amazing

(09-28-2020 05:57 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-28-2020 03:21 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]If you don't like the military's government run medical insurance system, just wait until the government decides we all get to enjoy that system.

LOL. Cause private insurance is amazing

Actually, my private insurance IS amazing. My youngest son spent nearly 2 weeks in intensive care a number of years back and I walked out basically owing nothing. So yeah, I'm pretty impressed. Granted, I work for a really quality employer.

On the flip side, I was in the Navy for 8 years on active duty (retired from the reserves) and I have up close and personal experience that would horrify any reasonable person:

- They nearly killed my wife and first-born son during child birth, because a GP was trying to deliver the baby.

- When I was having cancer surgery, they made me walk out into a hall full of people naked to get on the gurney to take me to the OR. While in pre-op, they nearly killed the guy next to me with the wrong dose of anesthesia. After the surgery, the doctor just left without telling my wife if I was ok.

I could go on and on, but the point is that Military medicine basically sucks. You wait in lines forever, so that even a routine sick call visit takes 4-6 hours from start to finish. It truly was dreadful.

I think the problem has more to do with the care than the insurance, which I hear is pretty good and covers most everything.