(08-01-2019 12:08 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 10:51 AM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]And the Dodgers have no reasons to complain--they can have or get anything they want at any time. Brookes whining on here is laughable--they have everything and didn't need anything--plus they brought up another stud guy for their bullpen in May. We can't seem to bring any pitcher up that is as good as promised--we have to go get other teams rentals. What happened to all our supposedly great young pitchers from the rebuild? Most aren't panning out, and we're starting to run out of them.
Dodgers--they're still the best team until someone beats them (and probably even after.) Braves will get to take a peek at the Dodgers in a few weeks for 3 games. Sure, I hope we can win one. I like our guys, just wish they'd play a lot better. I'm not sure we closed them gap enough, especially with all the lineup questions (you don;t think Duvall and Inciarte will cool down by then?) We couldn't even win 1 game--not on--against the KC Royals! At least ya'll split with Baltimore. Things are likely to heat up and get tight in NLeast.
I think whining is overstating it but your point is well taken. That said, I'm not alone. There are very few Dodgers fans, beat reporters, or other sports media types in LA who feel like the pen, and particularly the back end, is where it needs to be for the playoffs. Even Roberts has noted Jansen's problems on several occasions and Friedman acknowledged the team's desire to obtain bullpen support yesterday. Is it a DIRE need? No. Is it a need for a team who will consider anything short of a WS title a disappointment? Yes.
And the whole "best until someone beats them" trope is hollow when: 1) There are two leagues, and 2) We all know bullpens are much more critical in the post season.
Jansen, Jansen Jansen! He's still better, I think, than what we have in our bullpen. I know you're west coast, but have you seen any of our games
![[Image: jan-brady-the-brady-bunch.jpg]](https://www.daytonlocal.com/images/blog/jan-brady-the-brady-bunch.jpg)
Point taken. Every fan wishes for more from their chosen team. Every fan can find flaws, but to the rotation question above, it shows what my issue is: Starters, a traditional Braves strength past 25 years, are the big hole for us, while Nats, Dodgers, even Metz have more. I'm not even going to discuss the AL, because we won;t see them this year's playoffs. Watch Braves-Twins upcoming. IF we win, it usually is not because of great starting pitching. Yes, starters have a short leash in playoffs, but you blow through your pen in game 1 and/or 2 and your team is screwed no matter how good everyone else is. You need innings in playoffs. You can't have too much pitching--October reveals that again and again (We don't have Johnson/Schilling--but Nats do, plus more. And I hate the Nats lineup sometimes more than LAs because Rendon/Soto always kill us.) Rendon hurts also because Braves originally drafted him, but did not sign him --he went to some nerd school in Texas, I heard;
(08-01-2019 01:39 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Jansen, Jansen Jansen! He's still better, I think, than what we have in our bullpen. I know you're west coast, but have you seen any of our games
No, I don't see many Braves games but I can see the stats, and Luke Jackson, with whom you are rightfully uncomfortable, has stats that are remarkably similar to Jansen's.
Look it up! And your management figured out how to land two quality relievers, one of whom the Dodgers were chasing. Now, I'm not going to put too much blame on Dodgers management because it's clear they were trying to do a deal. I think teams like the Pirates hurt themselves by trying to gouge the Dodgers (or other resource-rich teams), then ending up with nothing. Pirates could have gotten one front line prospect and a couple of really quality 2nd tier guys, or even some MLB guys. But they were greedy and ended up with nothing.
(08-01-2019 02:00 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 01:39 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Jansen, Jansen Jansen! He's still better, I think, than what we have in our bullpen. I know you're west coast, but have you seen any of our games
No, I don't see many Braves games but I can see the stats, and Luke Jackson, with whom you are rightfully uncomfortable, has stats that are remarkably similar to Jansen's. Look it up! And your management figured out how to land two quality relievers, one of whom the Dodgers were chasing. Now, I'm not going to put too much blame on Dodgers management because it's clear they were trying to do a deal. I think teams like the Pirates hurt themselves by trying to gouge the Dodgers (or other resource-rich teams), then ending up with nothing. Pirates could have gotten one front line prospect and a couple of really quality 2nd tier guys, or even some MLB guys. But they were greedy and ended up with nothing.
well they still have Vazquez who is under contract thru 21 with team options thru 23- at very reasonable prices. That's 4 more years with him at 33.5 million. So that's hardly nothing.
(08-01-2019 02:07 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 02:00 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 01:39 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Jansen, Jansen Jansen! He's still better, I think, than what we have in our bullpen. I know you're west coast, but have you seen any of our games
No, I don't see many Braves games but I can see the stats, and Luke Jackson, with whom you are rightfully uncomfortable, has stats that are remarkably similar to Jansen's. Look it up! And your management figured out how to land two quality relievers, one of whom the Dodgers were chasing. Now, I'm not going to put too much blame on Dodgers management because it's clear they were trying to do a deal. I think teams like the Pirates hurt themselves by trying to gouge the Dodgers (or other resource-rich teams), then ending up with nothing. Pirates could have gotten one front line prospect and a couple of really quality 2nd tier guys, or even some MLB guys. But they were greedy and ended up with nothing.
well they still have Vazquez who is under contract thru 21 with team options thru 23- at very reasonable prices. That's 4 more years with him at 33.5 million. So that's hardly nothing.
Their ability to make the postseason let alone win in the post season is near zero. So in that sense they have nothing. The market for him at the deadline was hot. What it will be this winter or next summer is impossible to say. They missed an opportunity to improve their team.
(08-01-2019 02:20 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 02:07 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 02:00 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 01:39 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Jansen, Jansen Jansen! He's still better, I think, than what we have in our bullpen. I know you're west coast, but have you seen any of our games
No, I don't see many Braves games but I can see the stats, and Luke Jackson, with whom you are rightfully uncomfortable, has stats that are remarkably similar to Jansen's. Look it up! And your management figured out how to land two quality relievers, one of whom the Dodgers were chasing. Now, I'm not going to put too much blame on Dodgers management because it's clear they were trying to do a deal. I think teams like the Pirates hurt themselves by trying to gouge the Dodgers (or other resource-rich teams), then ending up with nothing. Pirates could have gotten one front line prospect and a couple of really quality 2nd tier guys, or even some MLB guys. But they were greedy and ended up with nothing.
well they still have Vazquez who is under contract thru 21 with team options thru 23- at very reasonable prices. That's 4 more years with him at 33.5 million. So that's hardly nothing.
Their ability to make the postseason let alone win in the post season is near zero. So in that sense they have nothing. The market for him at the deadline was hot. What it will be this winter or next summer is impossible to say. They missed an opportunity to improve their team.
the contract isn't going to get any less good though. Bullpen arms aren't going to get any less valuable.
(08-01-2019 01:22 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 12:29 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 12:01 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 08:31 AM)flyingswoosh Wrote: [ -> ] (07-31-2019 04:06 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ]That's a monster move.
On the other hand, Dodgers wouldn't be all that unhappy to see him in the WS.
Umm I would be terrified. Verlander, Cole, Greinke, Miley, plus an absolutely frightening lineup and a very good pen. They're the easy favorite and will likely roll through the AL.
Look, I completely agree the Astros now have to be the runaway favorite for the WS. BUT, the last couple of years the Dodgers have been hitting Greinke pretty well even when they're not at LA. So I think they'd much rather see him than Verlander or Miley. (Cole hasn't done that great against the Dodgers but the last couple of years he's so much better than with Pirates I'm not sure the older stats are relevant. So probably him too.)
What NL Rotation scares you the most to face in either Divisional Series or NLCS?
The Nats starting rotation is horrifying. Dodgers don't do well against any of their big 3. Of course, nobody does but it seems like a particularly bad matchup for LA. Nobody else is even close.
That would be my take as well.
Corbin as a Dback had a losing record but no fault of his own - the only Dodger that really hits him is Turner.
(08-01-2019 02:24 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 02:20 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 02:07 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 02:00 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 01:39 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Jansen, Jansen Jansen! He's still better, I think, than what we have in our bullpen. I know you're west coast, but have you seen any of our games
No, I don't see many Braves games but I can see the stats, and Luke Jackson, with whom you are rightfully uncomfortable, has stats that are remarkably similar to Jansen's. Look it up! And your management figured out how to land two quality relievers, one of whom the Dodgers were chasing. Now, I'm not going to put too much blame on Dodgers management because it's clear they were trying to do a deal. I think teams like the Pirates hurt themselves by trying to gouge the Dodgers (or other resource-rich teams), then ending up with nothing. Pirates could have gotten one front line prospect and a couple of really quality 2nd tier guys, or even some MLB guys. But they were greedy and ended up with nothing.
well they still have Vazquez who is under contract thru 21 with team options thru 23- at very reasonable prices. That's 4 more years with him at 33.5 million. So that's hardly nothing.
Their ability to make the postseason let alone win in the post season is near zero. So in that sense they have nothing. The market for him at the deadline was hot. What it will be this winter or next summer is impossible to say. They missed an opportunity to improve their team.
the contract isn't going to get any less good though. Bullpen arms aren't going to get any less valuable.
These statements are both true, but not the story. This market was scorching hot. So many teams were looking at so many pitchers with a hard deadline - it was a frenzy. It's not unfair to say the market for Vazquez may have been at its peak. The Pirates are betting they'll get better value for him this winter or perhaps next summer at the deadline. It's certainly possible but it's a risky bet. And if they're NOT betting, thinking they'll be in contention and will need Vazquez? I'd ask how they're going to do that.
(08-01-2019 02:29 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 01:22 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 12:29 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 12:01 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 08:31 AM)flyingswoosh Wrote: [ -> ]Umm I would be terrified. Verlander, Cole, Greinke, Miley, plus an absolutely frightening lineup and a very good pen. They're the easy favorite and will likely roll through the AL.
Look, I completely agree the Astros now have to be the runaway favorite for the WS. BUT, the last couple of years the Dodgers have been hitting Greinke pretty well even when they're not at LA. So I think they'd much rather see him than Verlander or Miley. (Cole hasn't done that great against the Dodgers but the last couple of years he's so much better than with Pirates I'm not sure the older stats are relevant. So probably him too.)
What NL Rotation scares you the most to face in either Divisional Series or NLCS?
The Nats starting rotation is horrifying. Dodgers don't do well against any of their big 3. Of course, nobody does but it seems like a particularly bad matchup for LA. Nobody else is even close.
That would be my take as well.
Corbin as a Dback had a losing record but no fault of his own - the only Dodger that really hits him is Turner.
Corbin is the "easiest" of the 3 and Dodgers have a collective OPS of .642 against him.
(08-01-2019 03:36 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 02:29 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 01:22 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 12:29 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 12:01 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Look, I completely agree the Astros now have to be the runaway favorite for the WS. BUT, the last couple of years the Dodgers have been hitting Greinke pretty well even when they're not at LA. So I think they'd much rather see him than Verlander or Miley. (Cole hasn't done that great against the Dodgers but the last couple of years he's so much better than with Pirates I'm not sure the older stats are relevant. So probably him too.)
What NL Rotation scares you the most to face in either Divisional Series or NLCS?
The Nats starting rotation is horrifying. Dodgers don't do well against any of their big 3. Of course, nobody does but it seems like a particularly bad matchup for LA. Nobody else is even close.
That would be my take as well.
Corbin as a Dback had a losing record but no fault of his own - the only Dodger that really hits him is Turner.
Corbin is the "easiest" of the 3 and Dodgers have a collective OPS of .642 against him.
Turner has a 1/3 of the hits, all the HR and half the RBI's that Corbin has allowed against LA
Doomed I tells ya. DOOMED!
With a 15.5 game lead in August I think I'm allowed to count these chickens, but if not go ahead and bookmark this post and I'll take the blame in October...
Post season rotation + bullpen (12)
Ryu
Kershaw
Buehler
Hill
Jansen
Urias
Maeda
Baez
Kelly
And 3 of Floro, Ferguson, Kolarek, Sadler, Striplng, Gonsolin, May. I'm assuming Chargois and Garcia won't be considered, and that Alexander is toast as well. I think there's a lot of magical thinking going on with Gonsolin and May on this list but there's time to see how they do. My guess is the final 3 will be Floro, Kolarek (cuz LOOGY), Stripling.
If Kelly keeps going as he has been (can you believe I just typed that? probably jinxed him), this is an excellent starting rotation and a moderately competent bullpen. If Jansen can figure things out (big if I know), it's a good to great pen.
(08-01-2019 05:40 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ]With a 15.5 game lead in August I think I'm allowed to count these chickens, but if not go ahead and bookmark this post and I'll take the blame in October...
Post season rotation + bullpen (12)
Ryu
Kershaw
Buehler
Hill
Jansen
Urias
Maeda
Baez
Kelly
And 3 of Floro, Ferguson, Kolarek, Sadler, Striplng, Gonsolin, May. I'm assuming Chargois and Garcia won't be considered, and that Alexander is toast as well. I think there's a lot of magical thinking going on with Gonsolin and May on this list but there's time to see how they do. My guess is the final 3 will be Floro, Kolarek (cuz LOOGY), Stripling.
If Kelly keeps going as he has been (can you believe I just typed that? probably jinxed him), this is an excellent starting rotation and a moderately competent bullpen. If Jansen can figure things out (big if I know), it's a good to great pen.
A lot of ifs though. Hill is a major if- and one where if the answer for him is no, that then really impacts the pen. Jansen can he hold up? Can Kelly keep it rolling? Urias- you are going to have the question with him of innings and can he remain effective? And frankly Kershaw as well- he's been hurt every year recently, but not this year.
(08-02-2019 07:57 AM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2019 05:40 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ]With a 15.5 game lead in August I think I'm allowed to count these chickens, but if not go ahead and bookmark this post and I'll take the blame in October...
Post season rotation + bullpen (12)
Ryu
Kershaw
Buehler
Hill
Jansen
Urias
Maeda
Baez
Kelly
And 3 of Floro, Ferguson, Kolarek, Sadler, Striplng, Gonsolin, May. I'm assuming Chargois and Garcia won't be considered, and that Alexander is toast as well. I think there's a lot of magical thinking going on with Gonsolin and May on this list but there's time to see how they do. My guess is the final 3 will be Floro, Kolarek (cuz LOOGY), Stripling.
If Kelly keeps going as he has been (can you believe I just typed that? probably jinxed him), this is an excellent starting rotation and a moderately competent bullpen. If Jansen can figure things out (big if I know), it's a good to great pen.
A lot of ifs though. Hill is a major if- and one where if the answer for him is no, that then really impacts the pen. Jansen can he hold up? Can Kelly keep it rolling? Urias- you are going to have the question with him of innings and can he remain effective? And frankly Kershaw as well- he's been hurt every year recently, but not this year.
Now let's do the rest of the NL
The big thing for the Dodgers is, will the Nats even make the playoffs? We've established that they're obviously the #1 threat, but they're currently in a 3 way tie for either of the WC spots. What if two of the Cubs, Brewers or Phillies get in and the Nats go home? At that point, the Dodgers can sleepwalk to the WS.
Ryu on the IL with neck soreness. Huh.
is it me, or do the Dodgers seem to commit a decent bit of errors? Saw that May gave up an unearned run tonight- and went and looked and wow, they are last in the NL in fielding percentage.
(08-02-2019 10:55 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]is it me, or do the Dodgers seem to commit a decent bit of errors? Saw that May gave up an unearned run tonight- and went and looked and wow, they are last in the NL in fielding percentage.
Aside from the fact that FP is not the best measure of defense, it’s worth noting the Dodgers have been giving Pederson an extended tryout at 1B (with 6 errors in 18 games) and have been playing others (eg Muncy at 2B) out of position regularly. Thankfully the Pederson experiment is over. All that said, it’s a bit annoying.
(08-02-2019 11:29 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2019 10:55 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]is it me, or do the Dodgers seem to commit a decent bit of errors? Saw that May gave up an unearned run tonight- and went and looked and wow, they are last in the NL in fielding percentage.
Aside from the fact that FP is not the best measure of defense, it’s worth noting the Dodgers have been giving Pederson an extended tryout at 1B (with 6 errors in 18 games) and have been playing others (eg Muncy at 2B) out of position regularly. Thankfully the Pederson experiment is over. All that said, it’s a bit annoying.
no doubt you are right about FP, but it just seems every time you look at a Dodgers box score- you see an unearned run(or more)….. They I saw have the most unearned runs in the NL allowed.....
Oh, Nats new pen tonight- 11 up, 11 down, 6 k's. Not too shabby. Win a game with Joe Ross starting. Meanwhile, Philly ran out of pitchers and is going to probably lose a game to the White Sox. Nats and Cubs now tied for the 2 wild card spots with the Phillies now a game out. What is good is that everyone else that was within 4 games of the wild card lost tonight.
1 thing that is funny looking at the year to year stats for Dodgers fielding- the pitchers fielding has been a killer this year. last year in 163 games they had 8 errors for the entire season.... This year so far they have 13 errors in 111 games- so a pace for 19 errors.
(08-03-2019 12:07 AM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]1 thing that is funny looking at the year to year stats for Dodgers fielding- the pitchers fielding has been a killer this year. last year in 163 games they had 8 errors for the entire season.... This year so far they have 13 errors in 111 games- so a pace for 19 errors.
Odd use of this word.