(06-22-2019 04:41 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote: [ -> ] (06-22-2019 04:17 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]And other teams have good enough guys to keep close early and then the pen takes over
Dodgers pen is 7th in the NL in fWAR. Not exactly a dumpster fire. Their SP is #1 and their offense is #1 by a good margin. Not to mention their team defense is #1 by an enormous margin. But sure, that 7th ranked pen will bury them, while the Rockies 11th ranked offense, or the Braves 10th ranked starting pitching, or the Brewers 12th ranked starting pitching, or the Nats 14th ranked defense, will not hinder them at all.
Dodgers have by far the best record in the NL and have won the last two pennants. Let's get real and try to join reality.
Their rotation is very deep. But it's also extremely injury prone, as we've already started to see with Hill out. 1 poorly timed injury to especially Ryu or Buehler and the Dodgers are in trouble. You say they've got Stripling and or Urias. Great, except that takes them out of the bullpen...
And sorry, but the playoffs are a totally different animal than the regular season. Bullpens matter FAR more then they do in the regular season.
Also, the closer situation is a HUGE concern. You saw in 2016 with your Giants what can happen if you don't have that position solid.
(06-22-2019 04:41 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote: [ -> ] (06-22-2019 04:17 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]And other teams have good enough guys to keep close early and then the pen takes over
Dodgers pen is 7th in the NL in fWAR. Not exactly a dumpster fire. Their SP is #1 and their offense is #1 by a good margin. Not to mention their team defense is #1 by an enormous margin. But sure, that 7th ranked pen will bury them, while the Rockies 11th ranked offense, or the Braves 10th ranked starting pitching, or the Brewers 12th ranked starting pitching, or the Nats 14th ranked defense, will not hinder them at all.
Dodgers have by far the best record in the NL and have won the last two pennants. Let's get real and try to join reality.
Agreed, as much as I think the Rockies could be the 2nd best team by the end of the season, they lose very consistently to LA.
They have gotten to Ryu a bit tonight, they need to snap a 9 game losing streak to them.
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Nah, stever’s right. Dodgers are right on the razor’s edge; barely hanging on.
(06-22-2019 10:13 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Nah, stever’s right. Dodgers are right on the razor’s edge; barely hanging on.
Yeah that's why their pen (which has been harped on for years) didn't keep them from winning the pennant two years in a row. And this year's Dodgers is better than the last two years.
But hey, they're not as good as the Nats wonderful pen.
well one thing with the playoffs, 3-4 losses and you're gone.... You have an implosion in game 1 and you have to win 3 of 4 to just survive. Dodgers were probably the better team in '17 but the Astros pen did better...
(06-22-2019 10:24 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote: [ -> ] (06-22-2019 10:13 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote: [ -> ]Nah, stever’s right. Dodgers are right on the razor’s edge; barely hanging on.
Yeah that's why their pen (which has been harped on for years) didn't keep them from winning the pennant two years in a row. And this year's Dodgers is better than the last two years.
But hey, they're not as good as the Nats wonderful pen.
here's the thing though-
2017 #2 bullpen in NL 3.38 ERA, 3.55 FIP
2018 #10 bullpen in NL 3.72 ERA, 3.88 FIP
2019 #7 bullpen in NL 4.22 ERA, 4.37 FIP
so the pen is no where near as good as it was the last 2 years, especially 2 years ago.
I do really think you're going to see the Dodgers address the pen issue here in July. They almost have to IMO. Can't have this good of a team with such a mediocre bullpen.
(06-22-2019 08:03 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-22-2019 04:41 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote: [ -> ] (06-22-2019 04:17 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]And other teams have good enough guys to keep close early and then the pen takes over
Dodgers pen is 7th in the NL in fWAR. Not exactly a dumpster fire. Their SP is #1 and their offense is #1 by a good margin. Not to mention their team defense is #1 by an enormous margin. But sure, that 7th ranked pen will bury them, while the Rockies 11th ranked offense, or the Braves 10th ranked starting pitching, or the Brewers 12th ranked starting pitching, or the Nats 14th ranked defense, will not hinder them at all.
Dodgers have by far the best record in the NL and have won the last two pennants. Let's get real and try to join reality.
Their rotation is very deep. But it's also extremely injury prone, as we've already started to see with Hill out. 1 poorly timed injury to especially Ryu or Buehler and the Dodgers are in trouble. You say they've got Stripling and or Urias. Great, except that takes them out of the bullpen...
And sorry, but the playoffs are a totally different animal than the regular season. Bullpens matter FAR more then they do in the regular season.
Also, the closer situation is a HUGE concern. You saw in 2016 with your Giants what can happen if you don't have that position solid.
Except that most all of the other contenders have bullpen issues equal to or worse than the Dodgers. I understand your sentiment that nothing is guaranteed, but as last season's early playoff series against the Dodgers showed me, the Braves are good, but the Dodgers are a few levels better. Sure, anything can happen, but the Dodgers are more than a few players away from having many serious doubts.
Then again, to your point, take tonight's Braves-Nyuts game, which the Braves won on the road 13-9 in a back and forth slugfest that might actually illustrate nyour point as well as Swoosh's: Wash went up early and got as many as 4 runs ahead by the third, and again 4 runs up in the fifth. Atlanta's starting pitcher Mike Foltynewicz gave up 8 earned runs in 5 innings, but the Atlanta offense kept him in the game until the 5th, where the Braves' bullpen took over. Wash starter Anabel Sanchez went 6 innings, giving up 4 runs, then Wash bullpen proceeds to implode as T. Rosenthal goes zero innings and gives up 3 earned runs (bumping his season ERA to a mere 22.74), Rainey blows the tie giving up an earned run, and Ross blows it giving up 4 more earned runs in the 8th, as WashMe loses the game that they were ahead in several times 13-9. Braves pourous bullpen holds together slightly better, with miracle on 34th street Anthony Swarzek of all players continuing to look stellar in Atlanta, the rest of the Braves no-name BP pitchers holding serve from Folty's 8 run debacle of a start, with only supposed former stud pitcher AJ Minter surrendering 1 earned run on a wild pitch, no less. So, yeah, a good team that's ahead with their starter can still lose these type of games. But I wouldn't bet against the Dodgers until and unless someone actually finishes them off. And I'm not as sure this is the season for that to happen as you seem to be.
As to the Braves, they really neede this win tonight to establish they can beat Wash and on the road to boot. Tomorrow is mstill a pretty critical game for both teams. The downside is slightly less for Was, as they are up 3-1 so far in this season's series, so it's not too bad a deal for them if they lose. Braves will have to wonder if they do, however. Can they beat WasMe head-to-head consistently? It's not as good a scenario for them, as it gives Wash the hope they need to press on.
Philly still imploding again against the Marlins tonight. Just amazing to see them falling apart for the moment. Not that I'm complaining. Atlanta has double or more the bullpen issues the Dodgers have, and then some.
thing is the Dodgers have got to be willing to spend the money to get the good relief pitcher or two. The bullpen is the one thing that can be the great equalizer.
Other teams are going to make moves.. . Cubs, Brewers, Braves, Nats, etc. Are the Dodgers going to be willing to spend what it takes, even if it takes them over the luxury tax?
Postseason has a funny way of having a lot of real close games. Jansen is a concern.
Looking at the standings right now, noticed the 5th place Pirates are 5.5 games back of the division-leading Cubs in the NL Central, which is as close as the 2nd place Phillies are at the moment to the NL east division leading Braves. The Central is a total crap-shoot at this point. The Reds and Pirates are by no means out of it yet, and probably comes down to a 3 team race or even more at season's end. Wow.
(06-22-2019 10:46 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]thing is the Dodgers have got to be willing to spend the money to get the good relief pitcher or two. The bullpen is the one thing that can be the great equalizer.
Other teams are going to make moves.. . Cubs, Brewers, Braves, Nats, etc. Are the Dodgers going to be willing to spend what it takes, even if it takes them over the luxury tax?
Postseason has a funny way of having a lot of real close games. Jansen is a concern.
Doomed I yell ya. Doomed!
They are 33-9 at home.
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(06-22-2019 10:46 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]thing is the Dodgers have got to be willing to spend the money to get the good relief pitcher or two. The bullpen is the one thing that can be the great equalizer.
Other teams are going to make moves.. . Cubs, Brewers, Braves, Nats, etc. Are the Dodgers going to be willing to spend what it takes, even if it takes them over the luxury tax?
Postseason has a funny way of having a lot of real close games. Jansen is a concern.
So the argument here is that the Dodgers are in trouble because the other "contenders" will absolutely be improving their bullpens next month, while the Dodgers probably won't. Am I close? 1st in offense, 1st in defense, 1st in SP. But that 7th ranked pen will be what kills them.
(06-23-2019 11:21 AM)Jjoey52 Wrote: [ -> ]They are 33-9 at home.
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No no, they're dead. They'll probably be beaten by Milwaukee, a team with a -3 run differential.
(06-14-2019 08:26 AM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]one thing to watch the next few days for the nats is Rosenthal. He just came back off the dl and has appeared twice(both in garbage time). He's faced 6 batters and allowed 1 walk(promptly erased by a dp). Last night he threw a 14 pitch/12 strike 1-2-3 inning. He had 4 swinging strikes(after having 7 in the first 8 appearances all season long). Hopefully it's a situation similar to what the Nats were able to do with Greg Holland last year after getting him from the Cards.
Fact check: It isn't, as Rosenthal has been released.
(06-23-2019 03:57 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote: [ -> ] (06-14-2019 08:26 AM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]one thing to watch the next few days for the nats is Rosenthal. He just came back off the dl and has appeared twice(both in garbage time). He's faced 6 batters and allowed 1 walk(promptly erased by a dp). Last night he threw a 14 pitch/12 strike 1-2-3 inning. He had 4 swinging strikes(after having 7 in the first 8 appearances all season long). Hopefully it's a situation similar to what the Nats were able to do with Greg Holland last year after getting him from the Cards.
Fact check: It isn't, as Rosenthal has been released.
Now he can help the Dodgers with
their bullpen! See, everybody wins!
Meanwhile, Braves and Nuts finish today's game in an extra-innings nailbiter. Tied at 2 apiece after 9, Braves get their second hitter walked, then Johan Carmago hits a nice little homer to center for a 4-2 lead. But Luke Jackson comes in and promptly walks the leadoff batter in B10. He gets ahead of every hitter, but then screws around and all of a sudden it's 4-3 with 1 out and Rendon up, and he's overdue. Somehow after messing around he gets Rendon to pop up to Freeman at first, then gest a Soto grounder to short to end it. Braves bullpen bends but barely su4rvives, but we'll take it. Nats still up on season series with Braves 4 games to 2, and I think they know they can beat us, even with their issues. Sure, they release Rosenthal, but Braves send down former All-Star Mike Folynewicz after his 8-run debacle last night. And Braves starter Mike Soroka leaves today's start after getting HBP in 3rd inning by Wash. Not the guy we need to be having any injuries to. So Braves pitching getting even more shaky.
Fortunately, the Philberts are helping out by getting swept by the Marlins of all teams. So Braves end the day up 6.5 on Philledon'tphia and only 8.5 up on Was. Still a lot of baseball to play, so anything can happen, but at least we can nurse our injuries form a bit ahead for a while.
One thing's for sure, Giants are gonna be able to make hay with their surplus pitching available to a bunch of teams that need help. Hope Braves don't mortgage the whole farm.
(06-23-2019 04:04 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ] (06-23-2019 03:57 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote: [ -> ] (06-14-2019 08:26 AM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]one thing to watch the next few days for the nats is Rosenthal. He just came back off the dl and has appeared twice(both in garbage time). He's faced 6 batters and allowed 1 walk(promptly erased by a dp). Last night he threw a 14 pitch/12 strike 1-2-3 inning. He had 4 swinging strikes(after having 7 in the first 8 appearances all season long). Hopefully it's a situation similar to what the Nats were able to do with Greg Holland last year after getting him from the Cards.
Fact check: It isn't, as Rosenthal has been released.
Now he can help the Dodgers with their bullpen! See, everybody wins!
(06-23-2019 04:14 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: [ -> ]One thing's for sure, Giants are gonna be able to make hay with their surplus pitching available to a bunch of teams that need help. Hope Braves don't mortgage the whole farm.
I think the Giants could do okay at the deadline, but it won't be because of Bumgarner. He's still a solid innings eater, but at this point is nothing more than a #3 on a contending team. Important, but not someone for whom you're trading a top 100 prospect. Where I think they'll do well is with Will Smith, Dyson and maybe even Moronta. We all know how dominant (and consistent) Smith has been, but Dyson (a former closer) has also been very good, as he's stopped walking too any batters and is sporting a nice 2.75 ERA. Moronta is an interesting case. He sports a high 90's fastball and a nasty slider, as evidenced by his 11.76 Ks per 9. However, he also walks far too many, 5.08 per 9. The thing about him is that he can be dominant and has a few more years of control.
None of those guys is going to bring back a huge prospect, but if they trade all 4 they'll get a nice little infusion of talent.
Dodgers walked off the Rockies 3 in a row with 3 different rookies hitting home runs. 34-9 at home now. I think it is their year even more now
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