"And text messages provided by a former acquaintance show an exchange with Casada in which Cothren appears to refer to a West Tennessee district with a "black people" meme.
In a text with other friends, Cothren said "black people are idiots."
He also insisted that Tampa Bay quarterback Jameis Winston be called a "thug n***er.""
(05-07-2019 08:37 PM)Rice93 Wrote: [ -> ]Hey, OO- I guess this would be a Republican Hero?
Umm, nope.
And this is exactly the point I have been trying to make. No matter how much republicans deny racism, any time some idiot makes a racist comment, it gets projected on all republicans.
But the left can excuse and even embrace Antifa, and it's no big deal. That seems to me to be a textbook double standard. What say you?
Yes, certainly some babies are born with problems that may limit life. So I guess the discussion is often whether to let the child die now, or later. Mercy killing or rage against the dying of the light.
It may upset you, but my position is that mothers have the right to kill their children. Because I do think every abortion is of a child. But I would not pass a law saying that a woman cannot make that choice, even though once upon a time a woman decided to,kill my child.
Fetus, infant, toddler, teenager - all stages in the development of a human being. Those who try to differentiate a fetus from a human will not convince me.
So when a mother kills her fetus, she is doing a legal killing of a human, IMO. But it is legal. Same as the death penalty or self defense. Whether or not it should be, and when it should be, I leave to those who think they have answers.
(05-07-2019 05:09 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]But I do come down on the side of being allowed to peaceably assemble. Harassing protesters, even if you are a state Rep., is not right.
Agree.
And this makes three. But, the harasser has an equal right under the law to harass --- an equal and concomitant right to that of the original protester to protest.
In short -- a protester has equal rights to be a 'polite' protester or a 'd-bag' protester. And a harasser is a protester.
(05-07-2019 08:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote: [ -> ]It’s clear that Northam did not “state he would execute a baby after birth,” as Trump claimed he did. However, his remarks did lack precision and clarity of meaning to the extent that they raised reasonable questions about what exactly he was proposing or advocating. For those reasons, we issue a verdict of “Mostly False.”
Umm, I'd say it's pretty clear that Northam stated precisely that. Sounds to me like you're not willing to defend that, and are looking for some way around it. Now, how much he or his staff backtracks from that position in subsequent questioning, and whether that was a misspeak or what he actually intended, are issues that we can discuss. But his direct quote was pretty much stating that he would execute a baby after birth. And I didn't see or hear much imprecision.
For the record, I'm pro-choice, with limitations. But my limitations would not allow anything remotely close to what Northam described in pretty direct words.
Of course I'm not willing to defend that! Who would defend the execution of viable babies??!?! Do you think that there is a doctor or nurse in the United States who would participate in killing a healthy newborn baby?
I think Northam got a question that he wasn't really prepared for and stumbled on his answer. Do I think that he supports the murder of newborn babies? God, no.
(05-07-2019 08:37 PM)Rice93 Wrote: [ -> ]Hey, OO- I guess this would be a Republican Hero?
Umm, nope.
And this is exactly the point I have been trying to make. No matter how much republicans deny racism, any time some idiot makes a racist comment, it gets projected on all republicans.
But the left can excuse and even embrace Antifa, and it's no big deal. That seems to me to be a textbook double standard. What say you?
Owl#s, this was a joke referring to OptimisticOwl's previous post from earlier today.
Just making sure that we didn't have a double standard with OptimisticOwl. If his guy is a Democratic Hero then my guy is surely a Republican Hero?
(05-07-2019 08:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote: [ -> ]It’s clear that Northam did not “state he would execute a baby after birth,” as Trump claimed he did. However, his remarks did lack precision and clarity of meaning to the extent that they raised reasonable questions about what exactly he was proposing or advocating. For those reasons, we issue a verdict of “Mostly False.”
Umm, I'd say it's pretty clear that Northam stated precisely that. Sounds to me like you're not willing to defend that, and are looking for some way around it. Now, how much he or his staff backtracks from that position in subsequent questioning, and whether that was a misspeak or what he actually intended, are issues that we can discuss. But his direct quote was pretty much stating that he would execute a baby after birth. And I didn't see or hear much imprecision.
For the record, I'm pro-choice, with limitations. But my limitations would not allow anything remotely close to what Northam described in pretty direct words.
Of course I'm not willing to defend that! Who would defend the execution of viable babies??!?! Do you think that there is a doctor or nurse in the United States who would participate in killing a healthy newborn baby?
I think Northam got a question that he wasn't really prepared for and stumbled on his answer. Do I think that he supports the murder of newborn babies? God, no.
You are entitled to your opinion. I have a different one, based upon Northam's words.
(05-07-2019 08:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote: [ -> ]It’s clear that Northam did not “state he would execute a baby after birth,” as Trump claimed he did. However, his remarks did lack precision and clarity of meaning to the extent that they raised reasonable questions about what exactly he was proposing or advocating. For those reasons, we issue a verdict of “Mostly False.”
Umm, I'd say it's pretty clear that Northam stated precisely that. Sounds to me like you're not willing to defend that, and are looking for some way around it. Now, how much he or his staff backtracks from that position in subsequent questioning, and whether that was a misspeak or what he actually intended, are issues that we can discuss. But his direct quote was pretty much stating that he would execute a baby after birth. And I didn't see or hear much imprecision.
For the record, I'm pro-choice, with limitations. But my limitations would not allow anything remotely close to what Northam described in pretty direct words.
Of course I'm not willing to defend that! Who would defend the execution of viable babies??!?! Do you think that there is a doctor or nurse in the United States who would participate in killing a healthy newborn baby?
I think Northam got a question that he wasn't really prepared for and stumbled on his answer. Do I think that he supports the murder of newborn babies? God, no.
You are entitled to your opinion. I have a different one, based upon Northam's words.
I went back and looked directly at a tape of the radio interview (the session was videoed). In this instance Northam specifically said that (paraphrase) 'in the case of third trimester abortions these are all instances in which a woman with a nonviable pregnancy or severe fetal abnormalities would have this procedure'.
He then limited his answer to 'in these cases', which I assume would be the limits presented in the previous sentence (i.e. nonviablility and severe fetal abnormalities).
I really have to come down that Northam's statements were limited to those situations.
"And text messages provided by a former acquaintance show an exchange with Casada in which Cothren appears to refer to a West Tennessee district with a "black people" meme.
In a text with other friends, Cothren said "black people are idiots."
He also insisted that Tampa Bay quarterback Jameis Winston be called a "thug n***er.""
(05-07-2019 08:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote: [ -> ]It’s clear that Northam did not “state he would execute a baby after birth,” as Trump claimed he did. However, his remarks did lack precision and clarity of meaning to the extent that they raised reasonable questions about what exactly he was proposing or advocating. For those reasons, we issue a verdict of “Mostly False.”
Umm, I'd say it's pretty clear that Northam stated precisely that. Sounds to me like you're not willing to defend that, and are looking for some way around it. Now, how much he or his staff backtracks from that position in subsequent questioning, and whether that was a misspeak or what he actually intended, are issues that we can discuss. But his direct quote was pretty much stating that he would execute a baby after birth. And I didn't see or hear much imprecision.
For the record, I'm pro-choice, with limitations. But my limitations would not allow anything remotely close to what Northam described in pretty direct words.
Of course I'm not willing to defend that! Who would defend the execution of viable babies??!?! Do you think that there is a doctor or nurse in the United States who would participate in killing a healthy newborn baby?
I think Northam got a question that he wasn't really prepared for and stumbled on his answer. Do I think that he supports the murder of newborn babies? God, no.
You are entitled to your opinion. I have a different one, based upon Northam's words.
I went back and looked directly at a tape of the radio interview (the session was videoed). In this instance Northam specifically said that (paraphrase) 'in the case of third trimester abortions these are all instances in which a woman with a nonviable pregnancy or severe fetal abnormalities would have this procedure'.
He then limited his answer to 'in these cases', which I assume would be the limits presented in the previous sentence (i.e. nonviablility and severe fetal abnormalities).
I really have to come down that Northam's statements were limited to those situations.
(05-07-2019 08:37 PM)Rice93 Wrote: [ -> ]Hey, OO- I guess this would be a Republican Hero?
Umm, nope.
And this is exactly the point I have been trying to make. No matter how much republicans deny racism, any time some idiot makes a racist comment, it gets projected on all republicans.
But the left can excuse and even embrace Antifa, and it's no big deal. That seems to me to be a textbook double standard. What say you?
Owl#s, this was a joke referring to OptimisticOwl's previous post from earlier today.
Just making sure that we didn't have a double standard with OptimisticOwl. If his guy is a Democratic Hero then my guy is surely a Republican Hero?
Sims is a hero to a lot of Dems. Defending Plannd Parenthood from those awful racist Christians? Surely you noticed how badly those “white” women were acting, standing there quietly praying? The one you tout as a Republican hero” is not a hero to very many. Why do you always go straight to racism? Do you think Republicans are all racists or fans of racists? Why? No wonder your leaders think we are deplorables.
(05-07-2019 10:34 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Sims is a hero to a lot of Dems. Defending Plannd Parenthood from those awful racist Christians? Surely you noticed how badly those “white” women were acting, standing there quietly praying? The one you tout as a Republican hero” is not a hero to very many. Why do you always go straight to racism? Do you think Republicans are all racists or fans of racists? Why? No wonder your leaders think we are deplorables.
Again, that's kind of my point. No matter how much republicans disavow racists, it's never enough. But democrats get to embrace far left wackos and it's no problem.
(05-07-2019 08:37 PM)Rice93 Wrote: [ -> ]Hey, OO- I guess this would be a Republican Hero?
Umm, nope.
And this is exactly the point I have been trying to make. No matter how much republicans deny racism, any time some idiot makes a racist comment, it gets projected on all republicans.
But the left can excuse and even embrace Antifa, and it's no big deal. That seems to me to be a textbook double standard. What say you?
Owl#s, this was a joke referring to OptimisticOwl's previous post from earlier today.
Just making sure that we didn't have a double standard with OptimisticOwl. If his guy is a Democratic Hero then my guy is surely a Republican Hero?
Sims is a hero to a lot of Dems. Defending Plannd Parenthood from those awful racist Christians? Surely you noticed how badly those “white” women were acting, standing there quietly praying? The one you tout as a Republican hero” is not a hero to very many. Why do you always go straight to racism? Do you think Republicans are all racists or fans of racists? Why? No wonder your leaders think we are deplorables.
Sims is a hero to a lot of Dems? How many Democrats have heard of this guy prior to this video making the news? I doubt that many Democrats look at this video and think this guy is covering himself in glory.
You found some random state level Democrat doing something crummy and labeled him a hero to his party. I found a random state level Republican doing something crummy and did the same.
(05-07-2019 10:16 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]I went back and looked directly at a tape of the radio interview (the session was videoed). In this instance Northam specifically said that (paraphrase) 'in the case of third trimester abortions these are all instances in which a woman with a nonviable pregnancy or severe fetal abnormalities would have this procedure'.
He then limited his answer to 'in these cases', which I assume would be the limits presented in the previous sentence (i.e. nonviablility and severe fetal abnormalities).
I really have to come down that Northam's statements were limited to those situations.
How does one "specifically say (paraphrase)"? Seems to me that paraphrase implicitly means, "those were not his specific words."
My problem is that it would appear that the proposed bill would allow the procedure on a blanket basis, not specifically limited to nonviable pregnancies or severe abnormalities. I don't have a problem allowing abortions in those cases. But my understanding of the bill is that those limits are pretty sketchy. It would allow an abortion in the, "Oh, crap, there's a kid coming down my birth canal, and I don't want another baby," situation, or even the, "Oh double crap, the kid has been born and now I don't want him/her," situation. I will admit that I'm basing this on analyses by others (on both sides of the issue) and not on a reading of the actual text of the bill. What I understand to be the protection against abuses is the the two doctors requirement, and that's good in theory, but you just set upon abortion mill with another doc as partner and voila, there's your two docs.
If we take Northam's comments to mean that the procedure would be strictly limited, then I have to ask how he knows so much about how things work. I know he is a OB/GYN, but he's speaking as if it is from actual experience, and if so, then that means that this can happen under existing law (either that, or he has just publicly admitted committing multiple felonies). If existing law avails the abortion remedy under those circumstances, then why is the new law needed?
Of course, if I were Northam and I were promoting an infanticide bill, I would be defending it exactly the way he is here.
I'm not as passionate on either side of this issue as are many, so I'm not following it closely, but relying on others. But from that perspective, some things just don't add up.
(05-07-2019 08:37 PM)Rice93 Wrote: [ -> ]Hey, OO- I guess this would be a Republican Hero?
Umm, nope.
And this is exactly the point I have been trying to make. No matter how much republicans deny racism, any time some idiot makes a racist comment, it gets projected on all republicans.
But the left can excuse and even embrace Antifa, and it's no big deal. That seems to me to be a textbook double standard. What say you?
Owl#s, this was a joke referring to OptimisticOwl's previous post from earlier today.
Just making sure that we didn't have a double standard with OptimisticOwl. If his guy is a Democratic Hero then my guy is surely a Republican Hero?
Sims is a hero to a lot of Dems. Defending Plannd Parenthood from those awful racist Christians? Surely you noticed how badly those “white” women were acting, standing there quietly praying? The one you tout as a Republican hero” is not a hero to very many. Why do you always go straight to racism? Do you think Republicans are all racists or fans of racists? Why? No wonder your leaders think we are deplorables.
Sims is a hero to a lot of Dems? How many Democrats have heard of this guy prior to this video making the news? I doubt that many Democrats look at this video and think this guy is covering himself in glory.
You found some random state level Democrat doing something crummy and labeled him a hero to his party. I found a random state level Republican doing something crummy and did the same.
He got elected on this platform. Lots of Dems would approve of chasing off or doxing religious white ladies opposing a woman’s right to kill her baby. I know of very righties who would endorse white nationalism.
And this is exactly the point I have been trying to make. No matter how much republicans deny racism, any time some idiot makes a racist comment, it gets projected on all republicans.
But the left can excuse and even embrace Antifa, and it's no big deal. That seems to me to be a textbook double standard. What say you?
Owl#s, this was a joke referring to OptimisticOwl's previous post from earlier today.
Just making sure that we didn't have a double standard with OptimisticOwl. If his guy is a Democratic Hero then my guy is surely a Republican Hero?
Sims is a hero to a lot of Dems. Defending Plannd Parenthood from those awful racist Christians? Surely you noticed how badly those “white” women were acting, standing there quietly praying? The one you tout as a Republican hero” is not a hero to very many. Why do you always go straight to racism? Do you think Republicans are all racists or fans of racists? Why? No wonder your leaders think we are deplorables.
Sims is a hero to a lot of Dems? How many Democrats have heard of this guy prior to this video making the news? I doubt that many Democrats look at this video and think this guy is covering himself in glory.
You found some random state level Democrat doing something crummy and labeled him a hero to his party. I found a random state level Republican doing something crummy and did the same.
He got elected on this platform. Lots of Dems would approve of chasing off or doxing religious white ladies opposing a woman’s right to kill her baby. I know of very righties who would endorse white nationalism.
You guys always go to racism.
I know an actual Republican hero - there was a Rep from Montana that received a lot of support when he assaulted a reporter by body slamming him for asking the Rep a question.
That’s not racism, but boy did that generate support! A true Republican hero - standing up for 1st Amendment rights!
OO, this line of talking is idiotic and beneath you. Each party has a few bad actors and trying to label those actors as heros, especially if they don’t hold a state-wide office is a bit much. That Dem is a jackoff, but no one hear had heard of him until you posted it.
(05-08-2019 08:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]I know an actual Republican hero - there was a Rep from Montana that received a lot of support when he assaulted a reporter by body slamming him for asking the Rep a question.
That’s not racism, but boy did that generate support! A true Republican hero - standing up for 1st Amendment rights!
OO, this line of talking is idiotic and beneath you. Each party has a few bad actors and trying to label those actors as heros, especially if they don’t hold a state-wide office is a bit much. That Dem is a jackoff, but no one hear had heard of him until you posted it.
But here's the problem.
Every time a bad actor who may lean right does something, there is a effort to paint all republicans with that brush, no matter how strongly they deny it. But democrats get to embrace their nutcases with no repercussions.
The actions of republican nutcases are attributed even to republicans who deny and disavow. The actions of democrat nutcases are accepted, and even those who embrace them are excused.
(05-08-2019 08:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]I know an actual Republican hero - there was a Rep from Montana that received a lot of support when he assaulted a reporter by body slamming him for asking the Rep a question.
That’s not racism, but boy did that generate support! A true Republican hero - standing up for 1st Amendment rights!
OO, this line of talking is idiotic and beneath you. Each party has a few bad actors and trying to label those actors as heros, especially if they don’t hold a state-wide office is a bit much. That Dem is a jackoff, but no one hear had heard of him until you posted it.
But here's the problem.
Every time a bad actor who may lean right does something, there is a effort to paint all republicans with that brush, no matter how strongly they deny it. But democrats get to embrace their nutcases with no repercussions.
The actions of republican nutcases are attributed even to republicans who deny and disavow. The actions of democrat nutcases are accepted, and even those who embrace them are excused.
It seems like OptimisticOwl was painting Democrats with a broad brush in his assertion that many would applaud his random state lawmaker's ridiculous antics.
(05-07-2019 08:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote: [ -> ]It’s clear that Northam did not “state he would execute a baby after birth,” as Trump claimed he did. However, his remarks did lack precision and clarity of meaning to the extent that they raised reasonable questions about what exactly he was proposing or advocating. For those reasons, we issue a verdict of “Mostly False.”
Umm, I'd say it's pretty clear that Northam stated precisely that. Sounds to me like you're not willing to defend that, and are looking for some way around it. Now, how much he or his staff backtracks from that position in subsequent questioning, and whether that was a misspeak or what he actually intended, are issues that we can discuss. But his direct quote was pretty much stating that he would execute a baby after birth. And I didn't see or hear much imprecision.
For the record, I'm pro-choice, with limitations. But my limitations would not allow anything remotely close to what Northam described in pretty direct words.
Of course I'm not willing to defend that! Who would defend the execution of viable babies??!?! Do you think that there is a doctor or nurse in the United States who would participate in killing a healthy newborn baby?
I think Northam got a question that he wasn't really prepared for and stumbled on his answer. Do I think that he supports the murder of newborn babies? God, no.
You mean now that Kermit Gosnell is behind bars?
Laws matter, and the specific words of laws matter. I don't give a flip what doctors like Northam say they would and wouldn't do. Bully for them, but all doctors are humans, and that means there are some flawed, unethical doctors. Accordingly, laws need to be drawn so as to prohibit that which must not be done, not leave it up to doctors who say "even if the law allowed for that, we wouldn't do it."
(05-07-2019 08:23 PM)Rice93 Wrote: [ -> ]It’s clear that Northam did not “state he would execute a baby after birth,” as Trump claimed he did. However, his remarks did lack precision and clarity of meaning to the extent that they raised reasonable questions about what exactly he was proposing or advocating. For those reasons, we issue a verdict of “Mostly False.”
Umm, I'd say it's pretty clear that Northam stated precisely that. Sounds to me like you're not willing to defend that, and are looking for some way around it. Now, how much he or his staff backtracks from that position in subsequent questioning, and whether that was a misspeak or what he actually intended, are issues that we can discuss. But his direct quote was pretty much stating that he would execute a baby after birth. And I didn't see or hear much imprecision.
For the record, I'm pro-choice, with limitations. But my limitations would not allow anything remotely close to what Northam described in pretty direct words.
Of course I'm not willing to defend that! Who would defend the execution of viable babies??!?! Do you think that there is a doctor or nurse in the United States who would participate in killing a healthy newborn baby?
I think Northam got a question that he wasn't really prepared for and stumbled on his answer. Do I think that he supports the murder of newborn babies? God, no.
You mean now that Kermit Gosnell is behind bars?
Laws matter, and the specific words of laws matter. I don't give a flip what doctors like Northam say they would and wouldn't do. Bully for them, but all doctors are humans, and that means there are some flawed, unethical doctors. Accordingly, laws need to be drawn so as to prohibit that which must not be done, not leave it up to doctors who say "even if the law allowed for that, we wouldn't do it."
+1. And that is the rationale behind the eventual outcome in the Citizen's United case as well and why the SCOTUS invalidated that particular statute.
But, in defense of Northam, the numbers of third trimester abortions is shockingly small (less than 1%) , and the estimated of 'golly just wanna have it' third trimester abortions (i.e. third trimester abortions that are *not* non-viable or severe fetal abnormalities) are probably less than 1% of that <1%.
Yes, the Gosnalls could (and do) happen. But I can understand Northam's answer with <1% being post- 24 weeks, and about 99% of that number being the 'non-viable' and 'severe abnormalities' situation.
If one wishes to add a proscription in the law as to viable healthy unborns post 24-weeks --- no problem from this quarter. But Northam's answer was very much directed to the norm of the post- 24 week period, imo.