(03-15-2019 09:00 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]If Trump was actually concerned with the widespread dissension, he would have expressed the concern about them and encouraged them not to play tough. Why did he not encourage those supporters who he called tough, to not ever play tough, regardless of what point they get to?
Quote:"I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump – I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad."
Breitbart said Trump was talking about the "vicious" tactics of "the left."
“So here’s the thing—it’s so terrible what’s happening,” Trump said before discussing his supporters. “You know, the left plays a tougher game, it’s very funny. I actually think that the people on the right are tougher, but they don’t play it tougher. Okay?"
I guess it just strikes me as more an accurate statement of what I see out there than any kind of call for action. But I suppose it is indefinite enough that it could be construed otherwise.
(03-15-2019 09:11 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:00 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]If Trump was actually concerned with the widespread dissension, he would have expressed the concern about them and encouraged them not to play tough. Why did he not encourage those supporters who he called tough, to not ever play tough, regardless of what point they get to?
Quote:"I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump – I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad."
Breitbart said Trump was talking about the "vicious" tactics of "the left."
“So here’s the thing—it’s so terrible what’s happening,” Trump said before discussing his supporters. “You know, the left plays a tougher game, it’s very funny. I actually think that the people on the right are tougher, but they don’t play it tougher. Okay?"
I guess it just strikes me as more an accurate statement of what I see out there than any kind of call for action. But I suppose it is indefinite enough that it could be construed otherwise.
Bingo. Trump's one skill we can all agree on is working the media and crowds. He knows exactly what he is saying, and why (most of the time).
He doesn't do much to not stoke the flames, and this is a perfect example.
(03-15-2019 09:21 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:11 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:00 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]If Trump was actually concerned with the widespread dissension, he would have expressed the concern about them and encouraged them not to play tough. Why did he not encourage those supporters who he called tough, to not ever play tough, regardless of what point they get to?
Quote:"I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump – I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad."
Breitbart said Trump was talking about the "vicious" tactics of "the left."
“So here’s the thing—it’s so terrible what’s happening,” Trump said before discussing his supporters. “You know, the left plays a tougher game, it’s very funny. I actually think that the people on the right are tougher, but they don’t play it tougher. Okay?"
I guess it just strikes me as more an accurate statement of what I see out there than any kind of call for action. But I suppose it is indefinite enough that it could be construed otherwise.
Bingo. Trump's one skill we can all agree on is working the media and crowds. He knows exactly what he is saying, and why (most of the time).
He doesn't do much to not stoke the flames, and this is a perfect example.
I think this is the exact opposite of a dog whistle, as are most things that get labeled as "dog whistles." I think it will be criticized as a call for action by those to whom he is not speaking. I think it will be regarded as concern for a realistic problem by those people to whom he is speaking.
I don't think anyone is going to interpret this as saying, "OK, Trump just said it's all right for me to go out and kill people." I think you are over-hyping it.
Actually, the reality is that Trump supporters have been very quiet compared to leftists. The Tea Party meetings were peaceful and they picked up after themselves. The left has to go back to a single punch thrown by a single individual at a rally three years ago to find something to mention to show how violent Trump supporters are in response to Trump's "calls" for violence.
Of course, on the left, we have rioting and antifa attacks and dumpster fires and people banned from campuses. But that's OK, since it s in a good cause - silencing the right.
(03-15-2019 09:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, the reality is that Trump supporters have been very quiet compared to leftists. The Tea Party meetings were peaceful and they picked up after themselves. The left has to go back to a single punch thrown by a single individual at a rally three years ago to find something to mention to show how violent Trump supporters are in response to Trump's "calls" for violence.
Of course, on the left, we have rioting and antifa attacks and dumpster fires and people banned from campuses. But that's OK, since it is in a good cause - silencing the right.
Exactly, and that's kind of my point.
(03-15-2019 09:30 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:21 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:11 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:00 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ]If Trump was actually concerned with the widespread dissension, he would have expressed the concern about them and encouraged them not to play tough. Why did he not encourage those supporters who he called tough, to not ever play tough, regardless of what point they get to?
Quote:"I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump – I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad."
Breitbart said Trump was talking about the "vicious" tactics of "the left."
“So here’s the thing—it’s so terrible what’s happening,” Trump said before discussing his supporters. “You know, the left plays a tougher game, it’s very funny. I actually think that the people on the right are tougher, but they don’t play it tougher. Okay?"
I guess it just strikes me as more an accurate statement of what I see out there than any kind of call for action. But I suppose it is indefinite enough that it could be construed otherwise.
Bingo. Trump's one skill we can all agree on is working the media and crowds. He knows exactly what he is saying, and why (most of the time).
He doesn't do much to not stoke the flames, and this is a perfect example.
I think this is the exact opposite of a dog whistle, as are most things that get labeled as "dog whistles." I think it will be criticized as a call for action by those to whom he is not speaking. I think it will be regarded as concern for a realistic problem by those people to whom he is speaking.
I don't think anyone is going to interpret this as saying, "OK, Trump just said it's all right for me to go out and kill people." I think you are over-hyping it.
You're wrong about the last one - there are enough crazies out there that will take the ambiguousness of that statement and run with it. Case and point:
Quote:“We are determined to take our country back,” Duke said from the rally, calling it a “turning point.” “We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back.”
https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/16138358/c...d-duke-kkk
Quote: After the Boston Globe called on news outlets around the country to resist what it called "Trump's assault on journalism," the Boston Globe received more than a dozen threatening phone calls. "You are the enemy of the people," the alleged caller, 68-year-old Robert Chain of Encino, California, told a Boston Globe employee on Aug. 22. "As long as you keep attacking the President, the duly elected President of the United States ... I will continue to threat[en], harass, and annoy the Boston Globe."
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/blame-ab...d=58912889
The problem with Trump making this sort of comment, without also stating that people shouldn't act badly, is that it is just a statement, and that can be twisted into whatever someone wants it to be, to fit their perspective. And there are a bunch of crazies out there just looking for ammo. And for years he has been providing it. It's almost as if the words the POTUS says matter...
(03-15-2019 09:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, the reality is that Trump supporters have been very quiet compared to leftists. The Tea Party meetings were peaceful and they picked up after themselves. The left has to go back to a single punch thrown by a single individual at a rally three years ago to find something to mention to show how violent Trump supporters are in response to Trump's "calls" for violence.
Of course, on the left, we have rioting and antifa attacks and dumpster fires and people banned from campuses. But that's OK, since it is in a good cause - silencing the right.
Exactly, and that's kind of my point.
The point is that because you perceive the left to be more violent that Trump should get a pass?
(03-15-2019 09:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, the reality is that Trump supporters have been very quiet compared to leftists. The Tea Party meetings were peaceful and they picked up after themselves. The left has to go back to a single punch thrown by a single individual at a rally three years ago to find something to mention to show how violent Trump supporters are in response to Trump's "calls" for violence.
Of course, on the left, we have rioting and antifa attacks and dumpster fires and people banned from campuses. But that's OK, since it is in a good cause - silencing the right.
Exactly, and that's kind of my point.
The point is that because you perceive the left to be more violent that Trump should get a pass?
Perceive? Do you deny it?
Speaking for myself, the point is that left is more guilty of violence than the right, yet they are the ones pointing fingers.
(03-15-2019 09:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, the reality is that Trump supporters have been very quiet compared to leftists. The Tea Party meetings were peaceful and they picked up after themselves. The left has to go back to a single punch thrown by a single individual at a rally three years ago to find something to mention to show how violent Trump supporters are in response to Trump's "calls" for violence.
Of course, on the left, we have rioting and antifa attacks and dumpster fires and people banned from campuses. But that's OK, since it is in a good cause - silencing the right.
Exactly, and that's kind of my point.
The point is that because you perceive the left to be more violent that Trump should get a pass?
No.
My point was written in sentences composed of English words. So was OO's.
Kindly respond to what I wrote instead of restating (and misstating) it.
Or go on building straw men. Your choice.
(03-15-2019 10:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, the reality is that Trump supporters have been very quiet compared to leftists. The Tea Party meetings were peaceful and they picked up after themselves. The left has to go back to a single punch thrown by a single individual at a rally three years ago to find something to mention to show how violent Trump supporters are in response to Trump's "calls" for violence.
Of course, on the left, we have rioting and antifa attacks and dumpster fires and people banned from campuses. But that's OK, since it is in a good cause - silencing the right.
Exactly, and that's kind of my point.
The point is that because you perceive the left to be more violent that Trump should get a pass?
No.
Is that one of those "putting words in other people's mouths' thingies?
(03-15-2019 10:07 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, the reality is that Trump supporters have been very quiet compared to leftists. The Tea Party meetings were peaceful and they picked up after themselves. The left has to go back to a single punch thrown by a single individual at a rally three years ago to find something to mention to show how violent Trump supporters are in response to Trump's "calls" for violence.
Of course, on the left, we have rioting and antifa attacks and dumpster fires and people banned from campuses. But that's OK, since it is in a good cause - silencing the right.
Exactly, and that's kind of my point.
The point is that because you perceive the left to be more violent that Trump should get a pass?
No.
My point was written in sentences composed of English words. So was OO's.
Kindly respond to what I wrote instead of restating (and misstating) it.
Or go on building straw men. Your choice.
OO's response literally said that the right hasn't been that violent compared to the leftists (see bold).
He said this in response to criticisms of Trump's use of language. That seems to pretty clearly suggest that because the left has been perceived to be more violent, the criticism of Trump is unwarranted.
If that isn't the point, please clarify what it was.
(03-15-2019 10:03 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, the reality is that Trump supporters have been very quiet compared to leftists. The Tea Party meetings were peaceful and they picked up after themselves. The left has to go back to a single punch thrown by a single individual at a rally three years ago to find something to mention to show how violent Trump supporters are in response to Trump's "calls" for violence.
Of course, on the left, we have rioting and antifa attacks and dumpster fires and people banned from campuses. But that's OK, since it is in a good cause - silencing the right.
Exactly, and that's kind of my point.
The point is that because you perceive the left to be more violent that Trump should get a pass?
Perceive? Do you deny it?
Speaking for myself, the point is that left is more guilty of violence than the right, yet they are the ones pointing fingers.
There have certainly been more protests that have devolved into violence led by antifa. There has certainly been more bombs mailed out by Trump supporters.
So in my mind, it's kind of a wash. There have been bad actors causing an perpetrating violence on both sides of the divide, which is exactly why I said that the response to Trump's Charlottesville comments would have been different if he had stated there were bad people on both sides.
Also, look at how I responded to your question - instead of getting up and arms suggesting you're putting words in my mouth, I understand that you're asking for clarification and I provided it.
And to your last comment, why does the amount of violence matter? I guess if you want to point out that the left is being hypocritical, it does. But it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the POTUS is stoking flames through his use of language. One person's wrong does not make another person right, ya know?
(03-15-2019 10:23 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 10:07 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, the reality is that Trump supporters have been very quiet compared to leftists. The Tea Party meetings were peaceful and they picked up after themselves. The left has to go back to a single punch thrown by a single individual at a rally three years ago to find something to mention to show how violent Trump supporters are in response to Trump's "calls" for violence.
Of course, on the left, we have rioting and antifa attacks and dumpster fires and people banned from campuses. But that's OK, since it is in a good cause - silencing the right.
Exactly, and that's kind of my point.
The point is that because you perceive the left to be more violent that Trump should get a pass?
No.
My point was written in sentences composed of English words. So was OO's. Kindly respond to what I wrote instead of restating (and misstating) it.
Or go on building straw men. Your choice.
OO's response literally said that the right hasn't been that violent compared to the leftists (see bold).
He said this in response to criticisms of Trump's use of language. That seems to pretty clearly suggest that because the left has been perceived to be more violent, the criticism of Trump is unwarranted.
If that isn't the point, please clarify what it was.
OO and I both wrote in explicit sentences composed of English words.
You were okay until you got to "seems." Everything after that is your interpretation, not our words. And, oh yes, I see, you said "seems ... to suggest ..."
How about this? Respond to what we actually wrote, and keep the "seems to suggest" part to yourself.
(03-15-2019 10:30 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 10:23 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 10:07 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly, and that's kind of my point.
The point is that because you perceive the left to be more violent that Trump should get a pass?
No.
My point was written in sentences composed of English words. So was OO's. Kindly respond to what I wrote instead of restating (and misstating) it.
Or go on building straw men. Your choice.
OO's response literally said that the right hasn't been that violent compared to the leftists (see bold).
He said this in response to criticisms of Trump's use of language. That seems to pretty clearly suggest that because the left has been perceived to be more violent, the criticism of Trump is unwarranted.
If that isn't the point, please clarify what it was.
OO and I both wrote in explicit sentences composed of English words.
You were okay until you got to "seems." Everything after that is your interpretation, not our words. And, oh yes, I see, you said "seems ... to suggest ..."
How about this? Respond to what we actually wrote, and keep the "seems to suggest" part to yourself.
I responded to what you wrote. I'll rephrase my question, as I did to OO, since it seems to have triggered something in you.
Why does it matter if the left is perceived to be more violent than the right when discussing Trump's statements?
(03-15-2019 10:23 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 10:07 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, the reality is that Trump supporters have been very quiet compared to leftists. The Tea Party meetings were peaceful and they picked up after themselves. The left has to go back to a single punch thrown by a single individual at a rally three years ago to find something to mention to show how violent Trump supporters are in response to Trump's "calls" for violence.
Of course, on the left, we have rioting and antifa attacks and dumpster fires and people banned from campuses. But that's OK, since it is in a good cause - silencing the right.
Exactly, and that's kind of my point.
The point is that because you perceive the left to be more violent that Trump should get a pass?
No.
My point was written in sentences composed of English words. So was OO's.
Kindly respond to what I wrote instead of restating (and misstating) it.
Or go on building straw men. Your choice.
OO's response literally said that the right hasn't been that violent compared to the leftists (see bold).
He said this in response to criticisms of Trump's use of language. That seems to pretty clearly suggest that because the left has been perceived to be more violent, the criticism of Trump is unwarranted.
If that isn't the point, please clarify what it was.
The point is the left are hypocrites.
(03-15-2019 10:30 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 10:03 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, the reality is that Trump supporters have been very quiet compared to leftists. The Tea Party meetings were peaceful and they picked up after themselves. The left has to go back to a single punch thrown by a single individual at a rally three years ago to find something to mention to show how violent Trump supporters are in response to Trump's "calls" for violence.
Of course, on the left, we have rioting and antifa attacks and dumpster fires and people banned from campuses. But that's OK, since it is in a good cause - silencing the right.
Exactly, and that's kind of my point.
The point is that because you perceive the left to be more violent that Trump should get a pass?
Perceive? Do you deny it?
Speaking for myself, the point is that left is more guilty of violence than the right, yet they are the ones pointing fingers.
There have certainly been more protests that have devolved into violence led by antifa. There has certainly been more bombs mailed out by Trump supporters.
So in my mind, it's kind of a wash. There have been bad actors causing an perpetrating violence on both sides of the divide, which is exactly why I said that the response to Trump's Charlottesville comments would have been different if he had stated there were bad people on both sides.
Also, look at how I responded to your question - instead of getting up and arms suggesting you're putting words in my mouth, I understand that you're asking for clarification and I provided it.
And to your last comment, why does the amount of violence matter? I guess if you want to point out that the left is being hypocritical, it does. But it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the POTUS is stoking flames through his use of language. One person's wrong does not make another person right, ya know?
I need a list of bombs mailed out by Trump supporters to evaluate your claim.
Every protest by Antifa that i know of has 'devolved" into violence. It is almost as if the violence is planned and expected. I would think when they leave home with their bandannas, they have an idea of what comes next.
To stoke flames, you first need flames. Where are the violent outbursts he is stoking?
(03-15-2019 10:03 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 09:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, the reality is that Trump supporters have been very quiet compared to leftists. The Tea Party meetings were peaceful and they picked up after themselves. The left has to go back to a single punch thrown by a single individual at a rally three years ago to find something to mention to show how violent Trump supporters are in response to Trump's "calls" for violence.
Of course, on the left, we have rioting and antifa attacks and dumpster fires and people banned from campuses. But that's OK, since it is in a good cause - silencing the right.
Exactly, and that's kind of my point.
The point is that because you perceive the left to be more violent that Trump should get a pass?
Perceive? Do you deny it?
Speaking for myself, the point is that left is more guilty of violence than the right, yet they are the ones pointing fingers.
Wow, just completely detached from reality. Yes, antifa are idiots. But right wing violence has a body count.
(03-15-2019 08:51 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-15-2019 07:57 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote: [ -> ] (03-14-2019 12:41 PM)At Ease Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:WASHINGTON—U.S. President Donald Trump has warned his political opponents of the possibility that they could eventually be confronted by armed Trump supporters in and out of uniform, telling a right-wing website on Monday that “it would be very bad, very bad” if his backers in the military, police and a motorcycle group were provoked into getting “tough.”
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2019/...tough.html
This is going to get lost in the news about the horrific Mosque attacks in New Zealand, but it is one of the most disturbing things Trump has said. If he had mentioned just bikers maybe you could write it off as a bad, highly inappropriate joke. But bringing police and the military into it is highly problematic. That's pretty much the definition of an authoritarian regime.
Disturbing? Perhaps.
But realistic? Quite possibly. I don't know about your daily affairs, but what I'm seeing regularly convinces me that there is very real and very widespread dissension with the way things are going in this country. I think he has expressed a very realistic concern. I am quite seriously worried that we are headed toward something like that, and if you are not worried I think you should be.
I guess I have a higher opinion of the military and police than you.