CSNbbs

People don't play wealth games, they play status games.

landscape repercussions still rumbling:

Big Ten nears media rights agreement with Fox, CBS, NBC

Quote:The Big Ten's six-year media rights deal with Fox and ESPN is set to expire in 2023.

Sports Business Journal first reported the outline of the Big Ten's media agreement and ESPN being out. According to sources, ESPN rejected the Big Ten's final offer of a seven-year, $380 million agreement, which would have included rights to fewer marquee games than the network's current agreement. The offer did not include a direct-to-consumer package, which ESPN valued through its growth of ESPN+.

The Big Ten's new agreement likely will feature CBS broadcasting football games in a midafternoon time slot, which had previously been filled by SEC games. Beginning in 2024, ESPN will exclusively broadcast SEC games as part of a 10-year agreement. NBC, which carries Notre Dame home football games, likely will have Big Ten football in the evening window as part of the new agreement. Sports Business Journal reported that both CBS and NBC are set to pay about $350 million for their Big Ten packages....

FYI - The Athletic published this morning a comprehensive look at a legal case against the NCAA and colleges "that demands more external attention than it has received to date" and the downstream implications for college athletics: https://theathletic.com/3497617/2022/08/...-employees

The case is "Johnson vs. NCAA", which began "(i)n Nov. 2019 (when) former Villanova football player Ralph “Trey” Johnson sued the NCAA and nearly two dozen universities in United States Eastern District Court of Pennsylvania, claiming that college athletes should be recognized as employees of the schools they attend under the Fair Labor Standards Act, and that the NCAA is a joint employer alongside the school an athlete competes for. Since then, the case has been amended and grown to include other current or former college athletes, and with the plaintiffs now seeking to be certified as a class action."

Reflecting the current reality, it's a long & complicated article. (One commenter said, in admiration of the details in the article: "It’s not often you see an article with 'circuit splits' and 'interlocutory appeals' not only mentioned, but clearly and concisely defined.")

Among the many issues explored in the article: should a student's "employee" status be different if the student is working in a university's library or concession stands or competing on an athletic team. And what differences are there for money-making sports vs money-losing ones? (A commenter notes that Villanova's football team is in the money-losing group.)

Some comments explored the tax implications of NIL and scholarships given to athletes.

If the case ends up in the Supreme Court, then what to make of Justice Kavanaugh's "fiery concurring opinion (to the Supreme Court's 9-0 Alston vs NCAA opinion*), in which he argued that 'the NCAA’s business model would be flatly illegal in almost any other industry in America.' Kavanaugh wrote that the NCAA’s remaining rules restricting athlete compensation deserve further antitrust scrutiny, essentially welcoming future lawsuits against the NCAA."

(* The 2021 decision "limited the NCAA’s ability to curb 'education-related compensation' for athletes ... (although t)he NCAA claims the Alston ruling was actually, in the big picture, a vote of support for its system.")

It's an interesting read.

Good. It's too bad that so few have stepped up to challenge NIL as of yet. It's illegal.

Where are the mid-major conferences on this? Why are they not pushing back? It's a policy that the NCAA reluctantly passed due to pressure from the power conferences. It's a policy that puts us at a further disadvantage. One could call it 'collusion.' The power conferences are setting policy for the NCAA.

(08-12-2022 12:09 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]Good. It's too bad that so few have stepped up to challenge NIL as of yet. It's illegal.

Where are the mid-major conferences on this? Why are they not pushing back? It's a policy that the NCAA reluctantly passed due to pressure from the power conferences. It's a policy that puts us at a further disadvantage. One could call it 'collusion.' The power conferences are setting policy for the NCAA.

Respectfully, NIL was put into place simply because the NCAA lost the Alston case at the Supreme Court. It was put into place because that case prohibits the NCAA from not allowing student athletes making money from endorsements and marketing of their NIL. SCOTUS said the NCAA prohibition on that violates various provisions of the anti-trust laws.

(08-13-2022 08:45 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2022 12:09 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]Good. It's too bad that so few have stepped up to challenge NIL as of yet. It's illegal.

Where are the mid-major conferences on this? Why are they not pushing back? It's a policy that the NCAA reluctantly passed due to pressure from the power conferences. It's a policy that puts us at a further disadvantage. One could call it 'collusion.' The power conferences are setting policy for the NCAA.

Respectfully, NIL was put into place simply because the NCAA lost the Alston case at the Supreme Court. It was put into place because that case prohibits the NCAA from not allowing student athletes making money from endorsements and marketing of their NIL. SCOTUS said the NCAA prohibition on that violates various provisions of the anti-trust laws.

That's right. I forgot about that. At the same time, it sounds like the ruling allows kids to make money through their NIL on the open market, not by accepting regular payments from a 'collective' associated with the university.

Universities are taking advantage of a loophole that allows them to do this IMO. They've found a way around the rules. They're buying student-athletes. Of course that favors the richest programs. They're glad the NCAA lost the Alston case.

(08-13-2022 01:01 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-13-2022 08:45 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2022 12:09 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]Good. It's too bad that so few have stepped up to challenge NIL as of yet. It's illegal.

Where are the mid-major conferences on this? Why are they not pushing back? It's a policy that the NCAA reluctantly passed due to pressure from the power conferences. It's a policy that puts us at a further disadvantage. One could call it 'collusion.' The power conferences are setting policy for the NCAA.

Respectfully, NIL was put into place simply because the NCAA lost the Alston case at the Supreme Court. It was put into place because that case prohibits the NCAA from not allowing student athletes making money from endorsements and marketing of their NIL. SCOTUS said the NCAA prohibition on that violates various provisions of the anti-trust laws.

That's right. I forgot about that. At the same time, it sounds like the ruling allows kids to make money through their NIL on the open market, not by accepting regular payments from a 'collective' associated with the university.

Universities are taking advantage of a loophole that allows them to do this IMO. They've found a way around the rules. They're buying student-athletes. Of course that favors the richest programs. They're glad the NCAA lost the Alston case.

The Collectives aren’t associated with the University, for the most part. That’s exactly why the NCAA has very little control over them at the moment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(08-13-2022 01:01 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-13-2022 08:45 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2022 12:09 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]Good. It's too bad that so few have stepped up to challenge NIL as of yet. It's illegal.

Where are the mid-major conferences on this? Why are they not pushing back? It's a policy that the NCAA reluctantly passed due to pressure from the power conferences. It's a policy that puts us at a further disadvantage. One could call it 'collusion.' The power conferences are setting policy for the NCAA.

Respectfully, NIL was put into place simply because the NCAA lost the Alston case at the Supreme Court. It was put into place because that case prohibits the NCAA from not allowing student athletes making money from endorsements and marketing of their NIL. SCOTUS said the NCAA prohibition on that violates various provisions of the anti-trust laws.

That's right. I forgot about that. At the same time, it sounds like the ruling allows kids to make money through their NIL on the open market, not by accepting regular payments from a 'collective' associated with the university.

Universities are taking advantage of a loophole that allows them to do this IMO. They've found a way around the rules. They're buying student-athletes. Of course that favors the richest programs. They're glad the NCAA lost the Alston case.

Alston made legal the practice of the Pony Express that resulted in the Death Penalty there 30(?) years ago. Absolutely.

Considering the antitrust implications of the case, there is no way to unstop that opened genie bottle that I can see.

Per the bolded: the distinction is 'associated with the university'. NCAA rules still strictly prohibit the university being involved. But, nothing prohibits the luxury car dealerships from supplying one year leases to various stars or recruits, on their own.

Nothing prevents this: Every Texas Longhorns offensive lineman on scholarship will get $50,000 annually for use of their name, image and likeness to support charitable causes, a new nonprofit entity announced Monday.

Or this: While the details of the deal have not been disclosed, On3 Sports reported that Longhorn RB Bijan Robinson "is allowed to drive a Lamborghini off the lot and the contract is a year long, set to expire in the spring of 2023."

Just think of NIL to sports programs as the equivalent of Political Action Committees (501 c organizations) to a specific candidate.

(08-04-2022 06:17 PM)Seventyniner Wrote: [ -> ]People don't play wealth games, they play status games.

tell that to the B1G...

Big Ten completes 7-year, $7 billion media rights agreement with Fox, CBS, NBC

Quote:The Big Ten is projected to eventually distribute $80 million-$100 million per year to each of its 16 members. According to USA Today, the league distributed $54.3 million to most of its members during the most recent fiscal year (2019-20) not impacted by the coronavirus pandemic.

"It's very expensive to operate our athletic departments," Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren told ESPN. "These new deals will continually provide stability for our athletic departments to service our studentemployees in a highly productive manner, allowing them to get a world-class educationbunch of money for playing a sport while all-but-ignoring most pretenses of academics but be treated in a manner that they rightfully deserve.

"This will help our student-athletesemployees in their continued pursuit of name, image and likeness opportunities, because now you're going to be on linear TV from morning to night on Saturday with three massive organizations."....

Thier uniforms vs others' uniforms. That's fine. Pay that main hcis muney....

and there's this...

College Football Playoff board discusses possibility, potential of restructuring how college football is governed, sources say

Quote:The 11 college presidents and chancellors who make up the College Football Playoff's board of managers met via Zoom on Monday and began a discussion that could reshape the future of college sports, sources told ESPN.

Multiple sources told ESPN that the board of managers briefly discussed the possibility of restructuring how college football is governed, with the idea presented of major college football potentially being governed outside of the NCAA. The most logical place for the sport to be run outside of the NCAA would be under the auspices of the CFP, which was discussed on the call. The CFP currently oversees the sport's postseason playoff and has contractual ties to other marquee postseason bowl games....

edit...and then, also...

Quote:One other item discussed on the call was the notion that the next iteration of the College Football Playoff -- whatever that would look like -- could be put into place before the end of the current CFP contract. That contract has four seasons remaining and runs out after the 2025 season.

A source told ESPN that the general feel among the presidents and chancellors on the call was that the college sports leaders have left too much money on the table by not implementing a new playoff before 2026, perhaps as much as a half-billion dollars. Much of the obstruction to the 12-team playoff appears to have dissipated, as media day comments from multiple leaders revealed some of the obstacles now appear to have been more performative than grounded in reality.

While there's still a lot of work to be done -- including an agreement on a format -- the door remains open for discussion of finding a new deal that could potentially be put in place for the final two seasons of the contract.

Presumably, I guess this contract will be renegotiated when Oregon, Stanford, Cal, and Washington join up as well.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/...r-AA10OBRD

Big 10 signs $7B dollar deal. Member schools to get $80-$100M per year.

And the gap between the haves and have nots is now measured in light years.

One has to wonder what the next SEC deal will look like.

(08-18-2022 07:24 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/...r-AA10OBRD

Big 10 signs $7B dollar deal. Member schools to get $80-$100M per year.

And the gap between the haves and have nots is now measured in light years.

One has to wonder what the next SEC deal will look like.

Based on the track record in the CFP's, and the addition of UT and OU, should be at least a billion more
for Rice to be semi-relevant, there will definitely have to be a system for true student-athletes

(08-18-2022 07:24 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/...r-AA10OBRD

Big 10 signs $7B dollar deal. Member schools to get $80-$100M per year.

And the gap between the haves and have nots is now measured in light years.

One has to wonder what the next SEC deal will look like.

And just think how much the schools will make now that a large part of their football and basketball recruiting is done by their NIL “partners”. Cost of recruiting for the schools drops and media rights soar. What a great situation, almost as good as owning a NFL team where you don’t have to win to be profitable with their revenue sharing created by Rozelle.

I am also surprised the Mid majors have not joined together and file suit against this garbage. I am sure they could find some grounds to file suit unless they are hoping to move up to the Power 5 conferences.

(08-13-2022 01:13 PM)markbrindley Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-13-2022 01:01 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-13-2022 08:45 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2022 12:09 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]Good. It's too bad that so few have stepped up to challenge NIL as of yet. It's illegal.

Where are the mid-major conferences on this? Why are they not pushing back? It's a policy that the NCAA reluctantly passed due to pressure from the power conferences. It's a policy that puts us at a further disadvantage. One could call it 'collusion.' The power conferences are setting policy for the NCAA.

Respectfully, NIL was put into place simply because the NCAA lost the Alston case at the Supreme Court. It was put into place because that case prohibits the NCAA from not allowing student athletes making money from endorsements and marketing of their NIL. SCOTUS said the NCAA prohibition on that violates various provisions of the anti-trust laws.

That's right. I forgot about that. At the same time, it sounds like the ruling allows kids to make money through their NIL on the open market, not by accepting regular payments from a 'collective' associated with the university.

Universities are taking advantage of a loophole that allows them to do this IMO. They've found a way around the rules. They're buying student-athletes. Of course that favors the richest programs. They're glad the NCAA lost the Alston case.

The Collectives aren’t associated with the University, for the most part. That’s exactly why the NCAA has very little control over them at the moment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(08-19-2022 11:56 AM)Texasowl Wrote: [ -> ]I am also surprised the Mid majors have not joined together and file suit against this garbage. I am sure they could find some grounds to file suit unless they are hoping to move up to the Power 5 conferences.

How do you file suit against 'their collectives are larger and better organized than ours'?

In fact, the schools themselves cant even use the word 'ours' in the complaint.

I agree it absolutely is garbage. Based on Alston, there is nothing the NCAA can do, and there is nothing the schools can do.

It is massively screwed at this point, in its operation and in any means to regulate it.

Kind of like saying 'what does the world at large do about North Korea'.......

(08-19-2022 01:26 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-19-2022 11:56 AM)Texasowl Wrote: [ -> ]I am also surprised the Mid majors have not joined together and file suit against this garbage. I am sure they could find some grounds to file suit unless they are hoping to move up to the Power 5 conferences.

How do you file suit against 'their collectives are larger and better organized than ours'?

In fact, the schools themselves cant even use the word 'ours' in the complaint.

I agree it absolutely is garbage. Based on Alston, there is nothing the NCAA can do, and there is nothing the schools can do.

It is massively screwed at this point, in its operation and in any means to regulate it.

Kind of like saying 'what does the world at large do about North Korea'.......

All this makes me sick to my stomach. Mid-major universities are now forced to find collectives to raise unreasonable amounts of money that's raised very easily by power conference members. None of us have the alumni numbers to do that.

One of two things will have to happen...either the G5 conferences file suit against the NCAA, challenging them on the definition of 'amateur athletics' and how it relates to NIL payments to student-athletes, or a complete breakaway from the NCAA itself, and the formation of a new league.

My feeling is that if the NCAA cared at all about amateur athletics, it would have already fought to preserve it. It would be, at least, pushing very hard for a reasonable cap that could be paid. But the NCAA won't do any of that. It will eat whatever the CFP and power conferences feed it, and it will keep its mouth shut and enjoy it.

It's time to break away. None of this will stop. I wish we could persuade all of the G5 conferences to leave the NCAA, and start a new league, but I know the chances of that happening are very small.

What will happen is that those of us who can't, or won't, pay NIL, will have to continue to compete at an extreme disadvantage.

Those big schools will continue to refuse to play us in our home stadiums, and home courts. Our rankings and RPI will continue to suffer because of it. We're screwed unless action is taken in some form. We can't just 'go along' with this. It's a disaster for the mid-majors.

(08-19-2022 02:14 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-19-2022 01:26 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-19-2022 11:56 AM)Texasowl Wrote: [ -> ]I am also surprised the Mid majors have not joined together and file suit against this garbage. I am sure they could find some grounds to file suit unless they are hoping to move up to the Power 5 conferences.

How do you file suit against 'their collectives are larger and better organized than ours'?

In fact, the schools themselves cant even use the word 'ours' in the complaint.

I agree it absolutely is garbage. Based on Alston, there is nothing the NCAA can do, and there is nothing the schools can do.

It is massively screwed at this point, in its operation and in any means to regulate it.

Kind of like saying 'what does the world at large do about North Korea'.......

All this makes me sick to my stomach. Mid-major universities are now forced to find collectives to raise unreasonable amounts of money that's raised very easily by power conference members. None of us have the alumni numbers to do that.

One of two things will have to happen...either the G5 conferences file suit against the NCAA, challenging them on the definition of 'amateur athletics' and how it relates to NIL payments to student-athletes, or a complete breakaway from the NCAA itself, and the formation of a new league.

My feeling is that if the NCAA cared at all about amateur athletics, it would have already fought to preserve it. It would be, at least, pushing very hard for a reasonable cap that could be paid. But the NCAA won't do any of that. It will eat whatever the CFP and power conferences feed it, and it will keep its mouth shut and enjoy it.

It's time to break away. None of this will stop. I wish we could persuade all of the G5 conferences to leave the NCAA, and start a new league, but I know the chances of that happening are very small.

What will happen is that those of us who can't, or won't, pay NIL, will have to continue to compete at an extreme disadvantage.

Those big schools will continue to refuse to play us in our home stadiums, and home courts. Our rankings and RPI will continue to suffer because of it. We're screwed unless action is taken in some form. We can't just 'go along' with this. It's a disaster for the mid-majors.

What I think should have happened is as follows:
1. Student athletes should have been guaranteed access to completing their academic endeavors. Most schools issue athletic scholarships on an annual basis have the right to revoke said scholarship due to poor performance or medical disqualification. A student athlete should have been completely assured the right to complete his/her degree no matter how it takes. In addition, the student athlete should be given access to medical care for recovery/rehabilitation from injuries incurred in the sport that they participate in while they are still a student at the institution (I understand that most schools do this).
2. All student athletes should be provided access to revenue garnered from their image and likeness upon graduation or release/separation from their school of matriculation/enrollment. That account should not be used to fund access to their education, but held in escrow upon completion of their service with all interest accrued if agreed upon.
3. Donors could contribute to a general purpose University NIL account, but not to the student athlete, for the purposes of funding immediate expenses (books, food, housing, etc.).
4. Portions of revenue generated by the revenue sports above and beyond their athletic budget should be shared with contributing student athletes upon completion of their service with each university with noted exceptions regarding students leaving early to be draft eligible. At that point, the student shall still retain the ability to continue his/her studies at a later time, but they would be subject to immediate compensation at graduation/draft. Each distribution would be weighted based upon a student athlete's direct impact on the value of the University brand. For example, Johnny Manziel would have seen a significant share from Texas A&M in comparison to the 12th man at Texas A&M.

In summary
1. Free education and health care; none revocable and no strings attached.
2. Image and Likeness revenue remitted to each student athlete upon completion of their terms of service regardless of participation in revenue or non-revenue sports.
3. Outside donations subject to applicability for student living or academic expenses only.
4. Disbursement of profits to Student Athletes participating in revenue sports upon completion of their terms of service.

Just my thoughts. Not that it matters now...

Quote:My feeling is that if the NCAA cared at all about amateur athletics, it would have already fought to preserve it. It would be, at least, pushing very hard for a reasonable cap that could be paid. But the NCAA won't do any of that. It will eat whatever the CFP and power conferences feed it, and it will keep its mouth shut and enjoy it.

I think the NCAA tried to do that in fighting the Alston case to the Supreme Court -- when they could have taken a dive on it.

After the Alston decision, the NCAA is simply trying to survive as a governing body, and is embracing the decision.

I mean, the CFP is *already* being touted as the next governing body by the executive committee in that posted article.

And yes, it makes me sick as well. And not just because Rice will be on the outside looking in no matter what our base does. Alston fundamentally sank the idea of and ideals that underlie the concept of student/athlete and of collegiate athletics.

There will be athletics between colleges, but at the higher level they will be 'bid for' contests between 'training league' teams, and the teams will have the logo of the sponsoring institution of higher learning.

It remains to be seen what that concept will look like for those outside the top 40, 48, or 64, however that hashes out.

In honesty, the highest level of athletics will be a corruptible business. One part of me does not want Rice to merely be the 'business tag' association with a paid for business entity. I am also very disappointed.

Kind of like seeing the *******, *******, crude guy next door who does nothing but press the flesh and try to sell you insurance at the neighborhood cookouts driving away in his Maserati eight years later. On one hand, there is a pang of not being in that Maserati, and on the other the sheer relief of 'thank god I never stooped to that level to be in that Maserati.'

Tony Buzby, I'm looking at you. (Buzby was in my Mock Trial class -- awesome he has Renoirs and a Sherman tank now, but thank god I never had to stoop to the plaintiff's attorney basement that he did so well in his first 15 years)

I guess I’m sorta past the “sick to my stomach” phase and find myself deep into the shoulder shrugging ”who cares” phase. The whole college football game has fundamentally changed. And I don’t think it’s ever going to change back. The 50, or so, teams that have gone all-in on the NIL collectives are rapidly separating from the rest of us. Some of the lower 70 teams will have some limited success in the near-term. But when the whole concept matures it will remain to be seen whether the P50 will even want to schedule the B70 teams pre-season. The match-ups will, ultimately, become so non-competitive that they won’t be practical, financially.
Like the computer in the War Games movie says, after running all of the simulations of nuclear confrontation, “The only way to win is to not play the game”
When that point is reached I think we will see a clear separation between schools/teams that want to keep a more traditional sense of the student athlete and those that want to go down the more professional athlete in college football path.
I think that is when a new governing body ..for the B70… will be created.