(04-12-2017 05:31 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2017 03:43 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ]Culturally. After many years of sub-mediocrity, attendance has gone up while he was there and the AD (and donors, apparently) upped Rhoades' contract when Shaka left for UT to keep him from jumping to VCU. They might end up crapping out and going right back to where they were a few years ago, but even with all the defections, they're still in a better place than they were after they finally fired Ben Braun — seriously, six years and 63 wins to show for it, and it took them that long to show him the door. I don't think they let the next coach average 10 wins a season for that long, because the culture is better.
A lot of what you listed are institutional commitments IMO. Many of which were made when they got tired of losing and fired Braun. Their entire AD has made a lot of investments as of late and I'm not sure how you can give him a lot of the credit with increasing what they're spending.
Sure, they increased the pay to keep him. But if they weren't committed to basketball, the coach wouldn't have mattered. He can be credited with increased attendance from their turnaround under him but winning is the main factor there. And its not a sustainable change if they dont continue winning.
I just don't see anything that he did while at Rice having a lasting impact that can be directly attributed to him alone. The only thing I see having an impact; his tenure proved to Rice that they can compete if they hire the right coach who can land the right players. But even then, if they don't stay committed to the sport, that will be fleeting.
I would also like to note that I am not questioning his hiring at VCU at all. It seemed like the smart move from the jump and I think he will keep the boat rolling in Richmond.
It was a symbiotic relationship. Hiring Rhoades was part of a stepped-up commitment to basketball, and his success (Rice was getting 3- and 4-star guys when not so long ago, their entire class might have been a combined 3 or 4 stars) encouraged more of it. Plus they promoted one of his assistants, which is a good sign that they wanted to encourage whatever Rhoades had done to continue (they may have hoped to keep some of their players around with a smooth transition, but alas).
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that Rhoades, in a vacuum, lifted Rice out of Hades. But he did play a big role in improving their standing and positioning themselves so that they can edge closer to the Middle Tennessees and UABs and ODUs and not the UTSAs and FIUs and FAUs.
(04-12-2017 06:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2017 05:31 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2017 03:43 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ]Culturally. After many years of sub-mediocrity, attendance has gone up while he was there and the AD (and donors, apparently) upped Rhoades' contract when Shaka left for UT to keep him from jumping to VCU. They might end up crapping out and going right back to where they were a few years ago, but even with all the defections, they're still in a better place than they were after they finally fired Ben Braun — seriously, six years and 63 wins to show for it, and it took them that long to show him the door. I don't think they let the next coach average 10 wins a season for that long, because the culture is better.
A lot of what you listed are institutional commitments IMO. Many of which were made when they got tired of losing and fired Braun. Their entire AD has made a lot of investments as of late and I'm not sure how you can give him a lot of the credit with increasing what they're spending.
Sure, they increased the pay to keep him. But if they weren't committed to basketball, the coach wouldn't have mattered. He can be credited with increased attendance from their turnaround under him but winning is the main factor there. And its not a sustainable change if they dont continue winning.
I just don't see anything that he did while at Rice having a lasting impact that can be directly attributed to him alone. The only thing I see having an impact; his tenure proved to Rice that they can compete if they hire the right coach who can land the right players. But even then, if they don't stay committed to the sport, that will be fleeting.
I would also like to note that I am not questioning his hiring at VCU at all. It seemed like the smart move from the jump and I think he will keep the boat rolling in Richmond.
It was a symbiotic relationship. Hiring Rhoades was part of a stepped-up commitment to basketball, and his success (Rice was getting 3- and 4-star guys when not so long ago, their entire class might have been a combined 3 or 4 stars) encouraged more of it. Plus they promoted one of his assistants, which is a good sign that they wanted to encourage whatever Rhoades had done to continue (they may have hoped to keep some of their players around with a smooth transition, but alas).
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that Rhoades, in a vacuum, lifted Rice out of Hades. But he did play a big role in improving their standing and positioning themselves so that they can edge closer to the Middle Tennessees and UABs and ODUs and not the UTSAs and FIUs and FAUs.
I agree! Time will tell but right now I tend to think Rhodes was a damn good hire for Rice and VCU.
Look at the ODU 2011-12 team (the year before 5-25). We had Baze and a lot of scrubs. We beat all the bad teams on our schedule and lost to all the decent teams. That is kind of what Rice looked like with Evans. You need everyone that sees the court, even the role players, to be good to take that next step. Rhoades certainly had a couple or maybe a few good players at Rice, but he also had scrubs that wouldn't have made our 5-25 team on the court all the time. Next year his Juniors and Seniors will be Shaka Smart's recruits. Let's see how he does. All make good points about his tenure at Rice, but it is apples and oranges. Rice's ceiling probably looks like W&M in the Marcus Thornton years.
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There is no comparison between the schedule ODU played in 11/12 and the one Rice played last year. It's like a different division.
(04-13-2017 09:25 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]There is no comparison between the schedule ODU played in 11/12 and the one Rice played last year. It's like a different division.
I didn't compare the schedules. Yes, our schedule was much better than that year than Rice's was this year, but it still doesn't take away the fact that we didn't beat anybody.
Just making the point that you aren't going to beat top teams with a single star and a couple of decent players when the rest of your players have no business even being in D1.
Aside from Evans, every player on the court next year playing for Rhoades will be superior talents and athleticism than anyone he coached at Rice. It will be interesting to see what he does with it.
I am not trying to defend Rhoades or make a judgement either way. More wait and see.
We actually beat a few decent teams. Most teams in conference that year were decent.
I don't think you realize Egor Koulechov is really good. He may be better than anyone VCU has on the court. This thought that is was Evans and no one else is wrong. Egor is being recruited by Oklahoma, Florida, and Iowa State and has the possibility of going professional. Marcuse Jackson is a grad transfer, not sure what schools are looking at him, but he is a solid player as well.
The criticism I have with Rhoades is that he got good talent to go to Rice, but he certainly should have done better with the talent on had. Only quality wins were LT, Marshall, and Omaha and had a bunch of bad losses.
(04-13-2017 10:10 AM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]We actually beat a few decent teams. Most teams in conference that year were decent.
I don't think you realize Egor Koulechov is really good. He may be better than anyone VCU has on the court. This thought that is was Evans and no one else is wrong. Egor is being recruited by Oklahoma, Florida, and Iowa State and has the possibility of going professional. Marcuse Jackson is a grad transfer, not sure what schools are looking at him, but he is a solid player as well.
The criticism I have with Rhoades is that he got good talent to go to Rice, but he certainly should have done better with the talent on had. Only quality wins were LT, Marshall, and Omaha and had a bunch of bad losses.
+1
(04-12-2017 12:54 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ]I guess my question for those who use Rhoades' record against JJ as a piece of evidence that he's overrated or even not good is this: If JJ went to Rice and Rhoades to ODU, do you think JJ would still have won five of their six meetings?
Precisely.
Not a chance in hell.
It will be very interesting to see what Rhoades does with a level playing field at vcu against Jones's make or break team at odu.
(04-12-2017 06:15 PM)blewbyu Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2017 06:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2017 05:31 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2017 03:43 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ]Culturally. After many years of sub-mediocrity, attendance has gone up while he was there and the AD (and donors, apparently) upped Rhoades' contract when Shaka left for UT to keep him from jumping to VCU. They might end up crapping out and going right back to where they were a few years ago, but even with all the defections, they're still in a better place than they were after they finally fired Ben Braun — seriously, six years and 63 wins to show for it, and it took them that long to show him the door. I don't think they let the next coach average 10 wins a season for that long, because the culture is better.
A lot of what you listed are institutional commitments IMO. Many of which were made when they got tired of losing and fired Braun. Their entire AD has made a lot of investments as of late and I'm not sure how you can give him a lot of the credit with increasing what they're spending.
Sure, they increased the pay to keep him. But if they weren't committed to basketball, the coach wouldn't have mattered. He can be credited with increased attendance from their turnaround under him but winning is the main factor there. And its not a sustainable change if they dont continue winning.
I just don't see anything that he did while at Rice having a lasting impact that can be directly attributed to him alone. The only thing I see having an impact; his tenure proved to Rice that they can compete if they hire the right coach who can land the right players. But even then, if they don't stay committed to the sport, that will be fleeting.
I would also like to note that I am not questioning his hiring at VCU at all. It seemed like the smart move from the jump and I think he will keep the boat rolling in Richmond.
It was a symbiotic relationship. Hiring Rhoades was part of a stepped-up commitment to basketball, and his success (Rice was getting 3- and 4-star guys when not so long ago, their entire class might have been a combined 3 or 4 stars) encouraged more of it. Plus they promoted one of his assistants, which is a good sign that they wanted to encourage whatever Rhoades had done to continue (they may have hoped to keep some of their players around with a smooth transition, but alas).
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that Rhoades, in a vacuum, lifted Rice out of Hades. But he did play a big role in improving their standing and positioning themselves so that they can edge closer to the Middle Tennessees and UABs and ODUs and not the UTSAs and FIUs and FAUs.
I agree! Time will tell but right now I tend to think Rhodes was a damn good hire for Rice and VCU.
Of course he was, it's common sense and the vcu fans couldn't be happier.
Quite a few odu fans were pissed when jones was hired and he's done nothing in 4 years to prove those who were saying he's not an NCAA caliber coach wrong.
The reactions by each respective teams fanbase to their coach's hiring really says it all to me.
Rhoades is young and on his way up like nearly every coach in the last 2 decades who's come through vcu.
Jones is on a downward trajectory career wise and has been since the late 1990's.
It is what it is.
Wow!! 43 pages on VCU basketball? To say that they live in our heads is a huge understatement.
(04-13-2017 05:51 PM)Old Blue Wrote: [ -> ]Wow!! 43 pages on VCU basketball? To say that they live in our heads is a huge understatement.
We REALLY need to get to the NCAA's next year.
Beating VCU on the way wouldn't hurt either.
The worst part about that tweet?
![[Image: c729a9af13960816f75b757ad9462e66.jpg]](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170418/c729a9af13960816f75b757ad9462e66.jpg)
![[Image: 0a3c82dabddd263236e17c65aca75a69.jpg]](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170418/0a3c82dabddd263236e17c65aca75a69.jpg)
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Was there really ever any doubt...anyways, don't really care
I guess the degree from Rice didn't matter anymore. LOL ! So this proves Rice beat us out for Evans and this staff failed to successfully recruit him out of HS.
(04-18-2017 06:39 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote: [ -> ]I guess the degree from Rice didn't matter anymore. LOL ! So this proves Rice beat us out for Evans and this staff failed to successfully recruit him out of HS.
We have a pretty good point guard, that is the same age. Add Kithcart to the mix, and we have two good point guards. What are you upset about?
Poor kid. To go from a highly prestigious, beautiful place like Rice and dropping down to VCU is going to be quite a culture shock I would think. I can't believe Rice didnt block VCU.
(04-18-2017 07:44 AM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (04-18-2017 06:39 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote: [ -> ]I guess the degree from Rice didn't matter anymore. LOL ! So this proves Rice beat us out for Evans and this staff failed to successfully recruit him out of HS.
We have a pretty good point guard, that is the same age. Add Kithcart to the mix, and we have two good point guards. What are you upset about?
Just shows another recruiting failure of this staff. Local kid that frankly is better than the guards on this team and we could not close the deal.
(04-18-2017 08:25 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-18-2017 07:44 AM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (04-18-2017 06:39 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote: [ -> ]I guess the degree from Rice didn't matter anymore. LOL ! So this proves Rice beat us out for Evans and this staff failed to successfully recruit him out of HS.
We have a pretty good point guard, that is the same age. Add Kithcart to the mix, and we have two good point guards. What are you upset about?
Just shows another recruiting failure of this staff. Local kid that frankly is better than the guards on this team and we could not close the deal.
Just to clarify, we could not recruit him as a transfer. If we had a recruiting fail, it was him out of high school.
I can't stand this entire staff as much as anyone, but their hands were tied on this one.
(04-18-2017 08:25 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote: [ -> ] (04-18-2017 07:44 AM)757ODU Wrote: [ -> ] (04-18-2017 06:39 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote: [ -> ]I guess the degree from Rice didn't matter anymore. LOL ! So this proves Rice beat us out for Evans and this staff failed to successfully recruit him out of HS.
We have a pretty good point guard, that is the same age. Add Kithcart to the mix, and we have two good point guards. What are you upset about?
Just shows another recruiting failure of this staff. Local kid that frankly is better than the guards on this team and we could not close the deal.
And if Marcus wanted to go away to school, what could this staff or any other staff do about that?