(03-21-2017 09:42 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]Because Rice had been one of the worst basketball programs in D1 for decades before Rhoades got there. We had been one of the best mid majors in the nation, minus one season, before JJ got here.
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Other than scheduling a 20 win season how did he change that? 1st year 12-20, second year 12-20, this year 23-12
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketb.../rice-owls
Our program was heading for even worse years. I get it everyone wants the NCAA including me. And JJ was not an exciting hire, but the ship is afloat and never went as far down as it could have after the way BT's tenure ended. It started before the 5-25 season and had potential to be a lot worse. Let's see how next year plays out.
VCU's program is no longer about the coach. It is now a destination for elite prospects regardless of who's coaching. In otherwords, it is a college basketball brand name.
(03-21-2017 09:21 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 09:17 PM)84Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 08:51 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 08:39 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 08:33 PM)84Monarch Wrote: [ -> ]Ever $5 says the streak stops/pauses at 7
Maybe it will, but we are ones to talk. We hired a coach that will likely never get us there once, much less 7 years in a row.
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And if it pauses it will be because of what Wade left, not because of Rhoades.
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Wade was only there two years, so a step back could not be completely at his feet. The coaching carousel will share a huge part of the blame.
Just a question, why is Rhoades considered such a catch. If he is as good as some on here make him out to be, why did it take so long and then Rice for him be a head coach.
Sometimes it takes a while to be noticed. He was at Randolph-Macon for some time, and if Shaka didn't add him to his staff, for all we know he could still be there leading the Jackets to national titles. Some guys get more breaks than 10 people like them deserve, others have to wait forever for their moment.
He won a d-3 national title, was the top assistant on a final 4 team and turned one of the single worst programs in the history of college basketball into a respectable 20 win team in only 3 years. He's also an ACE recruiter responsible for many of the top guys vcu landed while Shaka was there.
How anyone cannot see this guy's potential is beyond me. There's a reason ever single vcu fan is very excited to have him back.
(03-21-2017 09:25 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]hes 47-52 and the greatest thing since sliced bread. Jones is 89-51 at ODU and crap.
You claim to be a stats guy and yet you have ZERO clue what they really mean.
I'm honestly embarrassed for you.
(03-21-2017 10:03 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote: [ -> ]VCU's program is no longer about the coach. It is now a destination for elite prospects regardless of who's coaching. In otherwords, it is a college basketball brand name.
define elite. They get kids the big boys don't want. So they recruit well for a mid major, but to say they get elite prospects, necessitates we define elite.
(03-21-2017 10:07 PM)84Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 10:03 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote: [ -> ]VCU's program is no longer about the coach. It is now a destination for elite prospects regardless of who's coaching. In otherwords, it is a college basketball brand name.
define elite. They get kids the big boys don't want. So they recruit well for a mid major, but to say they elite prospects, necessitates we define elite.
Able to recruit top 100 players?
(03-21-2017 10:03 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote: [ -> ]VCU's program is no longer about the coach. It is now a destination for elite prospects regardless of who's coaching. In otherwords, it is a college basketball brand name.
I wouldnt say elite, but very good prospects. Then again, if Jj could turn around a 5 win team, imagine what he could do at VCu!
(03-21-2017 09:40 PM)84Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 09:34 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 09:25 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]hes 47-52 and the greatest thing since sliced bread. Jones is 89-51 at ODU and crap.
Quit trying to sell this BS. You know that it is not apples to apples.
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Why is it not apples to apples?
I think rice may have had one winning season in the last two decades before his arrival. They have no history and no alumni involvement. It was a black hole of despair. Think Towson at their worst.
Outside of one drunken year from Blaine, we had NOTHING in common with rice.
The turnaround he pulled off their is nothing short of miraculous while JJ's was solid but unspectacular.
Pulling a 5-1 head to head stat is meaningless because we SHOULD be better than rice so it's not an even starting point.
A much better measure will be how he does against JJ as coach for the next couple of years (or most likely year when JJ gets canned after not making the NCAA tourney again this coming season).
Anyone with a shred of intellect or integrity would admit as much......so of course the usual suspects are here using it as some sort of viable metric when it's anything but.
(03-21-2017 09:56 PM)Jackie Moon Wrote: [ -> ]Gotta agree on the "meh" part of Rhoades going to VCU. They could do much better in my eyes. I mean really. I never thought he was premier material from watching him at Rice. I'd give it a C- grade.
Well the first issue is you are judging someone on what they did at rice vs. what could be accomplished at odu or vcu.
If he comes in at vcu and puts up the same win loss/rpi there as he did at rice then maybe you'd have a point.
But he won't because now he has talent, university support, a much bigger recruiting budget/arena/tv contact/exposure and a history of success at his university.
Much easier to sell guys on coming to vcu than it is to rice.
Anyone who doesn't see the potential is kidding themselves.
(03-21-2017 06:29 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 06:01 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 01:55 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Doughty is a scoring point like Evans and both are inefficient, but Doughty actually plays defense. Williams is not good, but certainly better than Fields and Pinkney. Batts is the cream of their class thought if they can keep them and he could be the best PG day 1.
Wow.
It's not even up for debate, no idea why that statement gets a "wow" reaction.
Also, rhoades to vcu was a total no brainer, the guy was a huge part of their final 4 run, was a huge part of Randolph Macon being extremely successful and turned around one of the absolute worst teams in America in three short years.
He took a 4 star recruit out of odu's backyard and got him to go to Texas, imagine what he will do back at vcu with his connections and ability.
This is very bad news for odu ever getting on par with vcu but it's an amazing signing for vcu. Not a single vcu fan is bummed about this hire and that pretty much says it all to me. The total opposite reaction most odu fans had when jones was hired.
My single word comment had nothing to do with Williams, Rhodes, or VCU.
It gets a 'Wow' because it is yet another example of what I said a couple of weeks ago when I suggested that Giles seems to have something personal against Fields. The guy is a Freshman walk-on that played sparingly and he is constantly bashing him. In this case he basically said that while that guy (Williams) is bad those other two guys are awful (because they are worse). No one is saying that Fields is destined for stardom, but a dose of realism should be applied too. Quit looking at numbers for a minute or two and give the guy a chance. The guy is a true freshman, a walk-on, and he got limited minutes this year. It's too soon to pass those insulting judgements.
Even a guy like Bazemore (who red-shirted his first year) played like he had two left feet his first season getting playing time at ODU. He surely didn't perform anything then like he did as a Junior or Senior.
(03-21-2017 10:09 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 10:03 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote: [ -> ]VCU's program is no longer about the coach. It is now a destination for elite prospects regardless of who's coaching. In otherwords, it is a college basketball brand name.
I wouldnt say elite, but very good prospects. Then again, if Jj could turn around a 5 win team, imagine what he could do at VCu!
Maybe he could actually get to an NCAA tourney.
(03-21-2017 10:07 PM)84Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 10:03 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote: [ -> ]VCU's program is no longer about the coach. It is now a destination for elite prospects regardless of who's coaching. In otherwords, it is a college basketball brand name.
define elite. They get kids the big boys don't want. So they recruit well for a mid major, but to say they get elite prospects, necessitates we define elite.
They are absolutely competing for and winning battles against p5 teams on a regular basis, something im not sure JJ has done once.
And Rhoades is a better recruiter than Wade ever was which is why he was Shaka's assistant and managed to get a 4 star recruit to come to rice.
(03-21-2017 10:01 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 09:17 PM)84Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 08:51 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 08:39 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 08:33 PM)84Monarch Wrote: [ -> ]Ever $5 says the streak stops/pauses at 7
Maybe it will, but we are ones to talk. We hired a coach that will likely never get us there once, much less 7 years in a row.
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And if it pauses it will be because of what Wade left, not because of Rhoades.
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Wade was only there two years, so a step back could not be completely at his feet. The coaching carousel will share a huge part of the blame.
Just a question, why is Rhoades considered such a catch. If he is as good as some on here make him out to be, why did it take so long and then Rice for him be a head coach.
Did it? He was at vcu for a few years after moving over from Macon, went to a final 4, took the rice job and turned a 300+ rpi team into a 20 win team and landed a 4 star recruit from our backyard in 3 years and now takes over vcu.
Where exactly is the downside to what he's done thus far? Because he didn't beat odu enough head to head? Because he didn't make the NCAA tourney at RICE???
I have a feeling many on this board have a rude awakening coming with what he's able to accomplish at vcu vs. what jones acccomplishes here.
If I honestly had the choice right now and I could have either, I'd take Rhoades over Wade, that's how high I am on his prospects.
I would take Rhodes over Wade too. And, given the choice, I would take Keates over either of them.
(03-21-2017 10:16 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 06:29 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 06:01 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 01:55 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Doughty is a scoring point like Evans and both are inefficient, but Doughty actually plays defense. Williams is not good, but certainly better than Fields and Pinkney. Batts is the cream of their class thought if they can keep them and he could be the best PG day 1.
Wow.
It's not even up for debate, no idea why that statement gets a "wow" reaction.
Also, rhoades to vcu was a total no brainer, the guy was a huge part of their final 4 run, was a huge part of Randolph Macon being extremely successful and turned around one of the absolute worst teams in America in three short years.
He took a 4 star recruit out of odu's backyard and got him to go to Texas, imagine what he will do back at vcu with his connections and ability.
This is very bad news for odu ever getting on par with vcu but it's an amazing signing for vcu. Not a single vcu fan is bummed about this hire and that pretty much says it all to me. The total opposite reaction most odu fans had when jones was hired.
My single word comment had nothing to do with Williams, Rhodes, or VCU.
It gets a 'Wow' because it is yet another example of what I said a couple of weeks ago when I suggested that Giles seems to have something personal against Fields. The guy is a Freshman walk-on that played sparingly and he is constantly bashing him. In this case he basically said that while that guy (Williams) is bad those other two guys are awful (because they are worse). No one is saying that Fields is destined for stardom, but a dose of realism should be applied too. Quit looking at numbers for a minute or two and give the guy a chance. The guy is a true freshman, a walk-on, and he got limited minutes this year. It's too soon to pass those insulting judgements.
Even a guy like Bazemore (who red-shirted his first year) played like he had two left feet his first season getting playing time at ODU. He surely didn't perform anything then like he did as a Junior or Senior.
Giles is a boob, I don't take anything he says seriously. However, Williams is better than Fields and while there is always room to improve, he has a long way to go to even get close.
He was a defensive liability while Williams was a very solid defender.
(03-21-2017 10:16 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 06:29 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 06:01 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 01:55 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ]Doughty is a scoring point like Evans and both are inefficient, but Doughty actually plays defense. Williams is not good, but certainly better than Fields and Pinkney. Batts is the cream of their class thought if they can keep them and he could be the best PG day 1.
Wow.
It's not even up for debate, no idea why that statement gets a "wow" reaction.
Also, rhoades to vcu was a total no brainer, the guy was a huge part of their final 4 run, was a huge part of Randolph Macon being extremely successful and turned around one of the absolute worst teams in America in three short years.
He took a 4 star recruit out of odu's backyard and got him to go to Texas, imagine what he will do back at vcu with his connections and ability.
This is very bad news for odu ever getting on par with vcu but it's an amazing signing for vcu. Not a single vcu fan is bummed about this hire and that pretty much says it all to me. The total opposite reaction most odu fans had when jones was hired.
My single word comment had nothing to do with Williams, Rhodes, or VCU.
It gets a 'Wow' because it is yet another example of what I said a couple of weeks ago when I suggested that Giles seems to have something personal against Fields. The guy is a Freshman walk-on that played sparingly and he is constantly bashing him. In this case he basically said that while that guy (Williams) is bad those other two guys are awful (because they are worse). No one is saying that Fields is destined for stardom, but a dose of realism should be applied too. Quit looking at numbers for a minute or two and give the guy a chance. The guy is a true freshman, a walk-on, and he got limited minutes this year. It's too soon to pass those insulting judgements.
Even a guy like Bazemore (who red-shirted his first year) played like he had two left feet his first season getting playing time at ODU. He surely didn't perform anything then like he did as a Junior or Senior.
I have nothing against Fields and not discussing what he will do in 2-3 years. Williams is not good but is a player on a very good team. Fields is a walk on freshman who ideally would have redshirted this year. No knock on him, hes just not good right now (and shouldnt be expected to be good). Fields would not play over Williams....thats the point.
(03-21-2017 10:20 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 10:01 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 09:17 PM)84Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 08:51 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 08:39 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe it will, but we are ones to talk. We hired a coach that will likely never get us there once, much less 7 years in a row.
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And if it pauses it will be because of what Wade left, not because of Rhoades.
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Wade was only there two years, so a step back could not be completely at his feet. The coaching carousel will share a huge part of the blame.
Just a question, why is Rhoades considered such a catch. If he is as good as some on here make him out to be, why did it take so long and then Rice for him be a head coach.
Did it? He was at vcu for a few years after moving over from Macon, went to a final 4, took the rice job and turned a 300+ rpi team into a 20 win team and landed a 4 star recruit from our backyard in 3 years and now takes over vcu.
Where exactly is the downside to what he's done thus far? Because he didn't beat odu enough head to head? Because he didn't make the NCAA tourney at RICE???
I have a feeling many on this board have a rude awakening coming with what he's able to accomplish at vcu vs. what jones acccomplishes here.
If I honestly had the choice right now and I could have either, I'd take Rhoades over Wade, that's how high I am on his prospects.
I would take Rhodes over Wade too. And, given the choice, I would take Keates over either of them.
Keats is miles better than either. Wade is a better Xs and Os coach than Rhoades but it remains to be seen if he can recruit better. Wade did have a decent class at VCU.
If Rhoades can recruit well, it can mask his deficiencies.
(03-21-2017 09:54 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 09:02 PM)84Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 08:36 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote: [ -> ]Ill take different coaches and 7 straight NCAA appearances over 1 coach and no NCAA appearances.
I would submit that particular strategy means VCU will not become the Gonzaga of the east. At some point kids will not go there if they don't think the coach will stay for their entire career. They are on a good run, but if you look at the returners and coaching situation this could very well be that year.
Dayton and butler are much better comparisons.
Different coaches coming through, continued success regardless.
Guess what, Jeff jones isn't going to be mark few anytime either.
And just for the record, before few gonzaga also had several other very successful coaches that moves on as well.
But Dayton's and Butler's coaches stay a bit longer and Mark Few had been at Gonzaga for 18 years. Stability is a good thing.
(03-21-2017 10:27 PM)Gilesfan Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 10:20 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 10:01 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 09:17 PM)84Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 08:51 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ]And if it pauses it will be because of what Wade left, not because of Rhoades.
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Wade was only there two years, so a step back could not be completely at his feet. The coaching carousel will share a huge part of the blame.
Just a question, why is Rhoades considered such a catch. If he is as good as some on here make him out to be, why did it take so long and then Rice for him be a head coach.
Did it? He was at vcu for a few years after moving over from Macon, went to a final 4, took the rice job and turned a 300+ rpi team into a 20 win team and landed a 4 star recruit from our backyard in 3 years and now takes over vcu.
Where exactly is the downside to what he's done thus far? Because he didn't beat odu enough head to head? Because he didn't make the NCAA tourney at RICE???
I have a feeling many on this board have a rude awakening coming with what he's able to accomplish at vcu vs. what jones acccomplishes here.
If I honestly had the choice right now and I could have either, I'd take Rhoades over Wade, that's how high I am on his prospects.
I would take Rhodes over Wade too. And, given the choice, I would take Keates over either of them.
Keats is miles better than either. Wade is a better Xs and Os coach than Rhoades but it remains to be seen if he can recruit better. Wade did have a decent class at VCU.
If Rhoades can recruit well, it can mask his deficiencies.
More idiocy. Your "x and o's" are only as good as the players you have to execute them.
Most odu fans would state Blaine was a good X's and O's coach and yet, we went 5-25 his last year. Is that because he forgot how to coach offense and defense?
Or is it because our recruiting was terrible and John wooden himself could diagram enough good plays to win basketball games with those players?
Rice had nothing to work with and he still won 20 games. Give him a talent pool like vcu can pull in and watch what happens.
And it's a myth that JJ is a good X's and O's coach. Good coaches don't play one defense and one defense alone no matter what and have teams that go on huge scoring droughts all season long.
JJ being some great X's and O's coach is laughable, even Blaine changed tempo and defenses every once in a while.
(03-21-2017 10:04 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 09:21 PM)Cyniclone Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 09:17 PM)84Monarch Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 08:51 PM)Monarchblue Wrote: [ -> ] (03-21-2017 08:39 PM)EverRespect Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe it will, but we are ones to talk. We hired a coach that will likely never get us there once, much less 7 years in a row.
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And if it pauses it will be because of what Wade left, not because of Rhoades.
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Wade was only there two years, so a step back could not be completely at his feet. The coaching carousel will share a huge part of the blame.
Just a question, why is Rhoades considered such a catch. If he is as good as some on here make him out to be, why did it take so long and then Rice for him be a head coach.
Sometimes it takes a while to be noticed. He was at Randolph-Macon for some time, and if Shaka didn't add him to his staff, for all we know he could still be there leading the Jackets to national titles. Some guys get more breaks than 10 people like them deserve, others have to wait forever for their moment.
He won a d-3 national title, was the top assistant on a final 4 team and turned one of the single worst programs in the history of college basketball into a respectable 20 win team in only 3 years. He's also an ACE recruiter responsible for many of the top guys vcu landed while Shaka was there.
How anyone cannot see this guy's potential is beyond me. There's a reason ever single vcu fan is very excited to have him back.
Razor, sorry the D3 title means very little at this level and he was not the head man on the final four team. As for the 20 win season. Did you look at there schedule?? You and could have gotten 20 wins with that schedule.
Evans for whatever reason was not staying home to play ball. Sorry but we have never landed the stud local recruits no matter who the coach was or is. Petey Sessoms is about as close as we got.