(07-21-2021 07:37 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 07:17 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Probably by asking some ACC schools if they’re interested.

I don’t think Florida State, Clemson and Georgia Tech will be happy seeing their SEC in state rivals make a lot of money while they get relegated to second or third tier.

That would be interesting. The public ACC schools come to the B1G as a block and says we'll be the southern division.
Virginia,
Virginia Tech,
North Carolina,
NC State,
Clemson,
Georgia Tech,
Florida State,

It gives the B1G southern exposure and keeps a fair amount of regional rivals.

Duke would be at the top of their list if they did such an expansion... better academics than most Ivies, HUGE money and influence, and a southern counterpart to Northwestern as well as the best rivalry in basketball.

(07-22-2021 10:30 AM)AntiG Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 07:37 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 07:17 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Probably by asking some ACC schools if they’re interested.

I don’t think Florida State, Clemson and Georgia Tech will be happy seeing their SEC in state rivals make a lot of money while they get relegated to second or third tier.

That would be interesting. The public ACC schools come to the B1G as a block and says we'll be the southern division.
Virginia,
Virginia Tech,
North Carolina,
NC State,
Clemson,
Georgia Tech,
Florida State,

It gives the B1G southern exposure and keeps a fair amount of regional rivals.

Duke would be at the top of their list if they did such an expansion... better academics than most Ivies, HUGE money and influence, and a southern counterpart to Northwestern as well as the best rivalry in basketball.

DUKE/UNC/UVA will be a block

(07-22-2021 10:33 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  DUKE/UNC/UVA will be a block

They're a cultural block.
They're a basketball block.
They're also a football anchor. And in case you're missing it ... football is driving this process now all by itself without regard to any other sport.

UVA football is historically bad in the ACC. Not much better than Duke. UNC's history is too mostly mild beyond some brief Mack Brown. There's a pretty big ass gap in time between Charlie Choo Choo Justice and Julius Peppers and Sam Howell. Maybe the current B1G commish is stupid enough though to take on essentially three more Maryland-ish programs. If that drives FSU, Clemson, GT, and VT into the SEC then best of luck to the B1G in that mission.

(07-22-2021 01:32 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(07-22-2021 12:25 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 11:07 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 10:34 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 08:27 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  Yeah, OU & UT to the SEC would be a huge shift in the current balance of power. Back fill or not, the B12 ends up as a G6 conference. The ACC and P12 would be so far behind money wise that the only way for any of those schools to try to keep up would be to move to the BIG. A move like this probably opens the door for the BIG to pick whatever schools it wants from either conference.

This is unconventional but what if the B1G signed Kansas and Colorado? Two states not in the shadow of the SEC unlike many of the AAC programs.

Two rivals for Nebraska. Denver and Kansas City media markets.

PAC then could grab Texas Tech as a replacement, nice rival for the Arizona schools.

If the B1G went west I don't see much reason for why they stop with Colorado who doesn't really do much to improve the B1G's financial status. If they reach into the Pac12 they would be going after the core whether that would be just going for the Cal schools by themselves or building the AAU bridge to them.

Then who would the B1G play in the Rose Bowl?

Colorado would give the B1G a wedge out west w/o overrunning the region.

Kansas/Nebraska/Colorado could be like what the B1G has out east with Maryland/Penn St/Rutgers.

Yes, Colorado makes sense to me as a Big Ten candidate in a vacuum.

It’s a great school in super high growth market in an area that attracts a lot of Big Ten grads. Granted, CU is a fantastic fit with the Pac-12 already, so that could certainly give the school pause about leaving even with the money involved.

The thing is that the UT/OU addition is such a monster expansion for the SEC that it’s hard for any league to really react. Nothing short of adding Notre Dame full-time could come close to moving the needle like that move.

Actually, most additions would reduce the Big Ten's per-school payout.

The Big Ten makes almost $60 million per school. The only schools outside the Big Ten/SEC worth more than that are Texas, Oklahoma, Virginia, North Carolina, Notre Dame, USC, and UCLA.

The Big Ten makes almost double the ACC and PAC. So only the very top ACC and PAC schools would be break-even additions for the Big Ten. Even Duke and FSU and Stanford are only acceptable as tag-alongs.

Mid-tier PAC and ACC schools like Colorado or Virginia Tech would actually decrease the Big Ten's per-school payout.

(07-21-2021 08:12 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 07:47 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  One thing I believe the Big Ten does is not renew its contract with E$PN.

I think that has been in the works for years going all the way back to creation of the B1G network. ESPN clearly values the SEC more than the Big Ten but here's the rub. The Big Ten in spite of being in a region with a declining proportion of the population and talent is still a collection of MASSIVE universities, with stunningly large alumni bases, and are always high in the TV rating department. One benefit of having students leave the state they were educated in is that in addition to their own markets, the Big Ten does decent ratings in non-local markets as well.
Frankly I thought the last time that contracts came up that ESPN was not going to pick up the other half of the package but ultimately they chose to. This time may be different but if history is a measure... The Big Ten wants ESPN and ESPN wants at least a few Big Ten games.

Not too mention that the Big 10 is far more a NATIONAL presence that the SEC, as far as alumni go.

Here in Arizona, I know/see very few SEC alums (mainly Missouri) but tons of Big 10 alums. SEC grads tend to stay local, while B1G grads go everywhere.

(07-22-2021 09:23 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  

(07-22-2021 09:08 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Our idiot commissioner was clearly outplayed by his SEC counterpart. The Big Ten schools have been out there fishing for Oklahoma.

The SEC and ESPN has all of college football exactly where they want them. The own the ACC’s soul and no one there can move. The Big 10 has no one they can expand with that can add value unless we bust into the PAC 12 but the travel involved makes that highly unlikely.

I’m not a fan of any scheme that puts programs like UNC, UVA, or Duke in the Big Ten. those schools don’t care about or invest in football. In an eyeball driven market, they are dead weight.

At this point, our best bet is adding USC and ND.

Delaney should've taken Nebraska, Missouri and Oklahoma a decade ago as a package deal instead of looking eastward (at Maryland and Rutgers) after taking Nebraska.

So you think the Big Ten made a mistake adding your school?

(07-22-2021 10:41 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(07-22-2021 10:33 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  DUKE/UNC/UVA will be a block

They're a cultural block.
They're a basketball block.
They're also a football anchor. And in case you're missing it ... football is driving this process now all by itself without regard to any other sport.

UVA football is historically bad in the ACC. Not much better than Duke. UNC's history is too mostly mild beyond some brief Mack Brown. There's a pretty big ass gap in time between Charlie Choo Choo Justice and Julius Peppers and Sam Howell. Maybe the current B1G commish is stupid enough though to take on essentially three more Maryland-ish programs. If that drives FSU, Clemson, GT, and VT into the SEC then best of luck to the B1G in that mission.

Right—the ACC is stuck together until 2037. Maybe then the football first schools are able to get out. As long as that trio is in the ACC, there will be an ACC, and without going through a legal circus it will be hard for anyone to leave.

(07-22-2021 07:56 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 07:37 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  

(07-21-2021 07:17 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Probably by asking some ACC schools if they’re interested.

I don’t think Florida State, Clemson and Georgia Tech will be happy seeing their SEC in state rivals make a lot of money while they get relegated to second or third tier.

That would be interesting. The public ACC schools come to the B1G as a block and says we'll be the southern division.
Virginia,
Virginia Tech,
North Carolina,
NC State,
Clemson,
Georgia Tech,
Florida State,

It gives the B1G southern exposure and keeps a fair amount of regional rivals.

I like it, but why stop there? Also add a Pacific division with:

Washington
Oregon
Stanford
California
USC
UCLA
Notre Dame

Coast to coast, north to south and you essentially have created a 44 team P2 and the B1G is almost twice as big as the SEC (28 vs 16).

They don't give medals for the conference with the most number of teams. It just means the Big Ten has to cut the pie 28 ways instead of 16 and Penn State's softball team has to travel to Seattle.

(07-22-2021 10:41 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(07-22-2021 10:33 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  DUKE/UNC/UVA will be a block

They're a cultural block.
They're a basketball block.
They're also a football anchor. And in case you're missing it ... football is driving this process now all by itself without regard to any other sport.

UVA football is historically bad in the ACC. Not much better than Duke. UNC's history is too mostly mild beyond some brief Mack Brown. There's a pretty big ass gap in time between Charlie Choo Choo Justice and Julius Peppers and Sam Howell. Maybe the current B1G commish is stupid enough though to take on essentially three more Maryland-ish programs. If that drives FSU, Clemson, GT, and VT into the SEC then best of luck to the B1G in that mission.

Would you include GA Tech in the Duke/UNC/UVA block?

(07-22-2021 11:46 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(07-22-2021 09:23 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  

(07-22-2021 09:08 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Our idiot commissioner was clearly outplayed by his SEC counterpart. The Big Ten schools have been out there fishing for Oklahoma.

The SEC and ESPN has all of college football exactly where they want them. The own the ACC’s soul and no one there can move. The Big 10 has no one they can expand with that can add value unless we bust into the PAC 12 but the travel involved makes that highly unlikely.

I’m not a fan of any scheme that puts programs like UNC, UVA, or Duke in the Big Ten. those schools don’t care about or invest in football. In an eyeball driven market, they are dead weight.

At this point, our best bet is adding USC and ND.

Delaney should've taken Nebraska, Missouri and Oklahoma a decade ago as a package deal instead of looking eastward (at Maryland and Rutgers) after taking Nebraska.

So you think the Big Ten made a mistake adding your school?

big ten instead of going for Rutgers should have looked west and raided PAC 10 back then for a big team but alas you are stuck with Rutgers and Maryland school that are overwhelmed will be forever overwhelmed by PSU/OSU/UM/Wisconsin. Big ten should have went for UCLA and USC .

If you're CBS and/or Fox, you're watching ESPN maximizing the new contract they just signed when they locked up the SEC by snatching two of the most valuable pieces of the Big XII. And you know that the B1G, Pac-12 and the Big XII rights are all coming up. The question is - can you craft something that would keep you in that same stratosphere? I thing one or both (working together to undermine ESPN) go to the B1G and try to convince them to do something bold by bringing the 4 California schools plus Oregon and Washington (all AAU schools) into the fold. In doing so, you lock up the entire west coast and several major metropolitan areas. That's a 20 team conference, so you'd clearly have to have something like 5 team pods which aren't as neat as the SEC, but you pretty well get away from any "GOR" issues from the ACC and you get the most valuable remaining properties. Then you let the Pac-12 remnants and the Big XII remnants merge to form a "best of the rest" conference if they wish.

USFFan

(07-22-2021 11:50 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(07-22-2021 10:41 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(07-22-2021 10:33 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  DUKE/UNC/UVA will be a block

They're a cultural block.
They're a basketball block.
They're also a football anchor. And in case you're missing it ... football is driving this process now all by itself without regard to any other sport.

UVA football is historically bad in the ACC. Not much better than Duke. UNC's history is too mostly mild beyond some brief Mack Brown. There's a pretty big ass gap in time between Charlie Choo Choo Justice and Julius Peppers and Sam Howell. Maybe the current B1G commish is stupid enough though to take on essentially three more Maryland-ish programs. If that drives FSU, Clemson, GT, and VT into the SEC then best of luck to the B1G in that mission.

Would you include GA Tech in the Duke/UNC/UVA block?

No. GT's strongest affinity in the ACC is unquestionably FSU and Clemson. After that probably VT. GT (and likely Clemson/FSU too) would rather play SEC East (+Auburn) potluck than those three. It's a wash between those three and SEC West potluck on average. GT has played Duke every year for a considerable amount of time but that was more a reflection of mutual academic affinity than anything else. Duke @ GT doesn't drive up ticket sales it depresses them. GT doesn't travel all that great to Duke either, and I was there in Durham when GT clenched the Coastal in '09. Easy to get seats even late. Cheap-ish tickets. Crappy parking. GT only brought about 1500 fans. Most of the stadium was empty.

(07-22-2021 10:41 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(07-22-2021 10:33 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  DUKE/UNC/UVA will be a block

They're a cultural block.
They're a basketball block.
They're also a football anchor. And in case you're missing it ... football is driving this process now all by itself without regard to any other sport.

UVA football is historically bad in the ACC. Not much better than Duke. UNC's history is too mostly mild beyond some brief Mack Brown. There's a pretty big ass gap in time between Charlie Choo Choo Justice and Julius Peppers and Sam Howell. Maybe the current B1G commish is stupid enough though to take on essentially three more Maryland-ish programs. If that drives FSU, Clemson, GT, and VT into the SEC then best of luck to the B1G in that mission.

I agree - I don’t think there’s taking one without the other two or taking two without the third.

(07-22-2021 11:58 AM)usffan Wrote:  If you're CBS and/or Fox, you're watching ESPN maximizing the new contract they just signed when they locked up the SEC by snatching two of the most valuable pieces of the Big XII. And you know that the B1G, Pac-12 and the Big XII rights are all coming up. The question is - can you craft something that would keep you in that same stratosphere? I thing one or both (working together to undermine ESPN) go to the B1G and try to convince them to do something bold by bringing the 4 California schools plus Oregon and Washington (all AAU schools) into the fold. In doing so, you lock up the entire west coast and several major metropolitan areas. That's a 20 team conference, so you'd clearly have to have something like 5 team pods which aren't as neat as the SEC, but you pretty well get away from any "GOR" issues from the ACC and you get the most valuable remaining properties. Then you let the Pac-12 remnants and the Big XII remnants merge to form a "best of the rest" conference if they wish.

USFFan

Interesting idea.

A truly BIG idea would be to create a 3rd west coast division and raid the PAC
USC
UCLA
Cal
Stanford
Oregon
Washington
Arizona (AAU) or Arizona St (Phoenix + Ice Hockey Program)

This would give the Big 10 a 21 team conference, although it would be more league at that point, that controls the entire country west of Texas and North of Virginia.

Would FOX be willing to pay a per team SEC + Texas/OU level payout to achieve this?

(07-22-2021 11:58 AM)usffan Wrote:  If you're CBS and/or Fox, you're watching ESPN maximizing the new contract they just signed when they locked up the SEC by snatching two of the most valuable pieces of the Big XII. And you know that the B1G, Pac-12 and the Big XII rights are all coming up. The question is - can you craft something that would keep you in that same stratosphere? I thing one or both (working together to undermine ESPN) go to the B1G and try to convince them to do something bold by bringing the 4 California schools plus Oregon and Washington (all AAU schools) into the fold. In doing so, you lock up the entire west coast and several major metropolitan areas. That's a 20 team conference, so you'd clearly have to have something like 5 team pods which aren't as neat as the SEC, but you pretty well get away from any "GOR" issues from the ACC and you get the most valuable remaining properties. Then you let the Pac-12 remnants and the Big XII remnants merge to form a "best of the rest" conference if they wish.

USFFan

What a monstrosity.... please God no.

(07-21-2021 11:13 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  Mizzou to the B1G... here is what happens...

The B1G needs to add 2 to keep up, they also need to add AAU... the geographically closest choices are... Kansas, Iowa State and Missouri.

Iowa would rather not have Iowa State in B1G but will allow it if they have to.

Oklahoma legislators are on record many times saying no OU with OSU to any conference. Period.
The SEC wants TX, OU and will take OSU if they have to... but they have to get rid of someone... they can make an attractive offer to Mizzou to leave with no buyout or even offer incentives, which is when the B1G would come calling...

To get a built in historic rivalry game (KU / MU), two solid academically prestigious state schools... owning the KC and St Louis markets... well worth it for the B1G to add KU / MU... KU/ISU if they have to, but the upside is huge in adding MU.

And MU, if they stick in SEC with TX/OU, they are 6th in the pecking order in their division (assuming they are in west now) and have no shot at a nat champ game any time in near future... in B1G, they likely play in some B1G championship games.

"Oklahoma legislators are on record many times saying no OU with
OSU to any conference. Period" That statement makes no sense.

However, if you are trying to say "no OU without OSU to any conference". That is blatantly false.

The Legislator has said no such thing.... ever.

(07-22-2021 11:46 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(07-22-2021 09:23 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  

(07-22-2021 09:08 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Our idiot commissioner was clearly outplayed by his SEC counterpart. The Big Ten schools have been out there fishing for Oklahoma.

The SEC and ESPN has all of college football exactly where they want them. The own the ACC’s soul and no one there can move. The Big 10 has no one they can expand with that can add value unless we bust into the PAC 12 but the travel involved makes that highly unlikely.

I’m not a fan of any scheme that puts programs like UNC, UVA, or Duke in the Big Ten. those schools don’t care about or invest in football. In an eyeball driven market, they are dead weight.

At this point, our best bet is adding USC and ND.

Delaney should've taken Nebraska, Missouri and Oklahoma a decade ago as a package deal instead of looking eastward (at Maryland and Rutgers) after taking Nebraska.

So you think the Big Ten made a mistake adding your school?

Not at all.

From my objective perspective, I think Delaney should gone all in either in the west or in the east. As it stands, B1G has a glass half empty in the far west as well as the far east.

Also, had Delaney offered Florida State first, it probably would've been easier picking apart the ACC.

I really think Mizzou and Kansas to the B1G is the right move to build something that will last.

These big conferences got that way because they were put together correctly.

Long term, Mizzou and Kansas are the right move for the B1G.

(07-22-2021 12:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(07-22-2021 11:58 AM)usffan Wrote:  If you're CBS and/or Fox, you're watching ESPN maximizing the new contract they just signed when they locked up the SEC by snatching two of the most valuable pieces of the Big XII. And you know that the B1G, Pac-12 and the Big XII rights are all coming up. The question is - can you craft something that would keep you in that same stratosphere? I thing one or both (working together to undermine ESPN) go to the B1G and try to convince them to do something bold by bringing the 4 California schools plus Oregon and Washington (all AAU schools) into the fold. In doing so, you lock up the entire west coast and several major metropolitan areas. That's a 20 team conference, so you'd clearly have to have something like 5 team pods which aren't as neat as the SEC, but you pretty well get away from any "GOR" issues from the ACC and you get the most valuable remaining properties. Then you let the Pac-12 remnants and the Big XII remnants merge to form a "best of the rest" conference if they wish.

USFFan

Interesting idea.

A truly BIG idea would be to create a 3rd west coast division and raid the PAC
USC
UCLA
Cal
Stanford
Oregon
Washington
Arizona (AAU) or Arizona St (Phoenix + Ice Hockey Program)

This would give the Big 10 a 21 team conference, although it would be more league at that point, that controls the entire country west of Texas and North of Virginia.

Would FOX be willing to pay a per team SEC + Texas/OU level payout to achieve this?

Realistically, I don't see that happening at that scale.

That being said, it might be a good time for the Big Ten and Pac-12 to resurrect the partnership/alliance that ended up getting killed (by the Pac-12 side) a few years ago. That may honestly be better than any expansion option either league has right now.

(07-22-2021 12:40 PM)Claw Wrote:  I really think Mizzou and Kansas to the B1G is the right move to build something that will last.

These big conferences got that way because they were put together correctly.

Long term, Mizzou and Kansas are the right move for the B1G.

The question for SEC #16 emerges. I think it'd be Oklahoma St.