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How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
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PusherT Offline
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Post: #41
RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
(07-22-2021 01:13 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 12:50 AM)PusherT Wrote:  ACC is actually going to be closer to Big 10 especially with the big 10 humbled by this SEC move. It will be up to ND if they join the ACC that conference is stronger then Big 10
IMO. We just don’t know but ND just Played it’s first ever season of conference football in ACC they are close IMO

You are dreaming. Sound like a West Virginia denialist who claimed the B12 would raid the ACC and then said they'd raid the Pac-12, and that everyone was wrong that Texas and Oklahoma would leave.

The ACC is locked into a long contract with ESPN that is approach less than half the B1G contract in value per school. And the increase is at a slower rate than the B1G. That gap is growing every year, with no mechanism to reduce it. Like Oklahoma, when looking at $400-500m additional dollars over a decade in distributions conference loyalty gets pretty thin. Those are the kind of numbers that persuade Chancellors and Presidents over all complaints from boosters and fans.

But the ACC is locked in a GOR until 2035. So I don't expect anything but courting for the next decade. But come 2031 or 2032 we may get a similar announcement from a couple schools like Virginia and North Carolina.
I have no faith in big 10 leadership and I think they are trying to get away from ESPN and go more in bed with Fox. The incentive is there for ESPN to keep the ACC viable and getting ND in the grouping does just that. These next 10 years will be interesting.
07-22-2021 01:18 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
(07-22-2021 01:18 AM)PusherT Wrote:  I have no faith in big 10 leadership and I think they are trying to get away from ESPN and go more in bed with Fox. The incentive is there for ESPN to keep the ACC viable and getting ND in the grouping does just that. These next 10 years will be interesting.

ESPN is all in on the SEC. The ACC s a side show. They are not going to increase their TV package by $600m a year to bring it closer to the B1G. This is why I think you are dreaming. And why I think you are like the West Virginia denialists. Hell West Virginia showed how much loyalty is worth when offered more money. Ditto Nebraska, Syracuse and Pitt.

If anything ESPN might try to circumvent a B1G move by pushing Clemson and North Carolina into the SEC.

Of course we are talking 2035, and we have no idea which media companies will still be in existence. The mouse could well be a subsidiary of Alphabet or Facebook by then.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2021 01:37 AM by Stugray2.)
07-22-2021 01:31 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #43
RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
(07-22-2021 12:25 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 11:07 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 10:34 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 08:27 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 07:17 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Probably by asking some ACC schools if they’re interested.

I don’t think Florida State, Clemson and Georgia Tech will be happy seeing their SEC in state rivals make a lot of money while they get relegated to second or third tier.

Yeah, OU & UT to the SEC would be a huge shift in the current balance of power. Back fill or not, the B12 ends up as a G6 conference. The ACC and P12 would be so far behind money wise that the only way for any of those schools to try to keep up would be to move to the BIG. A move like this probably opens the door for the BIG to pick whatever schools it wants from either conference.

This is unconventional but what if the B1G signed Kansas and Colorado? Two states not in the shadow of the SEC unlike many of the AAC programs.

Two rivals for Nebraska. Denver and Kansas City media markets.

PAC then could grab Texas Tech as a replacement, nice rival for the Arizona schools.

If the B1G went west I don't see much reason for why they stop with Colorado who doesn't really do much to improve the B1G's financial status. If they reach into the Pac12 they would be going after the core whether that would be just going for the Cal schools by themselves or building the AAU bridge to them.

Then who would the B1G play in the Rose Bowl?

Colorado would give the B1G a wedge out west w/o overrunning the region.

Kansas/Nebraska/Colorado could be like what the B1G has out east with Maryland/Penn St/Rutgers.

Yes, Colorado makes sense to me as a Big Ten candidate in a vacuum.

It’s a great school in super high growth market in an area that attracts a lot of Big Ten grads. Granted, CU is a fantastic fit with the Pac-12 already, so that could certainly give the school pause about leaving even with the money involved.

The thing is that the UT/OU addition is such a monster expansion for the SEC that it’s hard for any league to really react. Nothing short of adding Notre Dame full-time could come close to moving the needle like that move.
07-22-2021 01:32 AM
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OhioBoilermaker Offline
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Post: #44
RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
(07-22-2021 01:32 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 12:25 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 11:07 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 10:34 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 08:27 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  Yeah, OU & UT to the SEC would be a huge shift in the current balance of power. Back fill or not, the B12 ends up as a G6 conference. The ACC and P12 would be so far behind money wise that the only way for any of those schools to try to keep up would be to move to the BIG. A move like this probably opens the door for the BIG to pick whatever schools it wants from either conference.

This is unconventional but what if the B1G signed Kansas and Colorado? Two states not in the shadow of the SEC unlike many of the AAC programs.

Two rivals for Nebraska. Denver and Kansas City media markets.

PAC then could grab Texas Tech as a replacement, nice rival for the Arizona schools.

If the B1G went west I don't see much reason for why they stop with Colorado who doesn't really do much to improve the B1G's financial status. If they reach into the Pac12 they would be going after the core whether that would be just going for the Cal schools by themselves or building the AAU bridge to them.

Then who would the B1G play in the Rose Bowl?

Colorado would give the B1G a wedge out west w/o overrunning the region.

Kansas/Nebraska/Colorado could be like what the B1G has out east with Maryland/Penn St/Rutgers.

Yes, Colorado makes sense to me as a Big Ten candidate in a vacuum.

It’s a great school in super high growth market in an area that attracts a lot of Big Ten grads. Granted, CU is a fantastic fit with the Pac-12 already, so that could certainly give the school pause about leaving even with the money involved.

The thing is that the UT/OU addition is such a monster expansion for the SEC that it’s hard for any league to really react. Nothing short of adding Notre Dame full-time could come close to moving the needle like that move.

Anything less than the Pac-12 making a hard push for Kansas would be negligence. A national brand in the central time zone? Slam dunk for them.
07-22-2021 01:39 AM
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Transic_nyc Offline
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Post: #45
RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
(07-21-2021 11:07 PM)clpp01 Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 10:34 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 08:27 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 07:17 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Probably by asking some ACC schools if they’re interested.

I don’t think Florida State, Clemson and Georgia Tech will be happy seeing their SEC in state rivals make a lot of money while they get relegated to second or third tier.

Yeah, OU & UT to the SEC would be a huge shift in the current balance of power. Back fill or not, the B12 ends up as a G6 conference. The ACC and P12 would be so far behind money wise that the only way for any of those schools to try to keep up would be to move to the BIG. A move like this probably opens the door for the BIG to pick whatever schools it wants from either conference.

This is unconventional but what if the B1G signed Kansas and Colorado? Two states not in the shadow of the SEC unlike many of the AAC programs.

Two rivals for Nebraska. Denver and Kansas City media markets.

PAC then could grab Texas Tech as a replacement, nice rival for the Arizona schools.

If the B1G went west I don't see much reason for why they stop with Colorado who doesn't really do much to improve the B1G's financial status. If they reach into the Pac12 they would be going after the core whether that would be just going for the Cal schools by themselves or building the AAU bridge to them.

Complete fantasy but I could see a possibility of offering Stanford and USC (and then ask ND if they're still interested in staying away). That might become a prelude to building an entire western division for the Big Ten.
07-22-2021 01:51 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #46
RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
(07-21-2021 07:36 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The B1G by taking Nebraska has put pressure on the XII and by taking Maryland pressure on the ACC. Even some pressure on the SEC as they are surrounding Kentucky and Missouri.

What about something unconventional and add Clemson and Florida State? ...

On ARWU:
Florida State, 201-300 in the world.
Kansas, 201-300 in the world.
Oklahoma, 401-500 in the world.
Clemson, 501-600 in the world.

If the six academic snobs in the Big Ten turned up their nose at Oklahoma and Kansas, how are they going to be convinced to accept Clemson and Florida State?
07-22-2021 02:18 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #47
RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
(07-22-2021 01:32 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The thing is that the UT/OU addition is such a monster expansion for the SEC that it’s hard for any league to really react. Nothing short of adding Notre Dame full-time could come close to moving the needle like that move.

That's it. If the UT/OU move happens, shortly after that the SEC will announce a big increase in the already huge TV deal they just made with ESPN.

Then the Big Ten will look at that and ask themselves: What can we do to get on par with that deal, or close to it? And the answer will be: Only Notre Dame is worth it; adding anyone else is just adding to make it look like we're doing something. The Pac-12 and ACC will reach the same conclusion. There's no point in expanding for the sake of expanding, or dividing a same-sized pie into more pieces. Even more so when the SEC's expansion just put a Grand Canyon-sized money gap between themselves and everyone else.
07-22-2021 02:35 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #48
RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
(07-22-2021 02:35 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 01:32 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The thing is that the UT/OU addition is such a monster expansion for the SEC that it’s hard for any league to really react. Nothing short of adding Notre Dame full-time could come close to moving the needle like that move.

That's it. If the UT/OU move happens, shortly after that the SEC will announce a big increase in the already huge TV deal they just made with ESPN.

... There's no point in expanding for the sake of expanding, or dividing a same-sized pie into more pieces. ...

This is the key point. "Keeping up" with the SEC is not keeping up with the size of the SEC, it's keeping up with the $$$/school.

But the only moves other than Notre Dame that would have increased the value per school involved Texas, Oklahoma, or both.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2021 03:04 AM by BruceMcF.)
07-22-2021 03:04 AM
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Post: #49
RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
(07-22-2021 03:04 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 02:35 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 01:32 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The thing is that the UT/OU addition is such a monster expansion for the SEC that it’s hard for any league to really react. Nothing short of adding Notre Dame full-time could come close to moving the needle like that move.

That's it. If the UT/OU move happens, shortly after that the SEC will announce a big increase in the already huge TV deal they just made with ESPN.

... There's no point in expanding for the sake of expanding, or dividing a same-sized pie into more pieces. ...

This is the key point. "Keeping up" with the SEC is not keeping up with the size of the SEC, it's keeping up with the $$$/school.

But the only moves other than Notre Dame that would have increased the value per school involved Texas, Oklahoma, or both.
Here's the thing about Notre Dame. If the Big 10 wants them get the 20 million in North Carolina and Virginia. Striking the head of the ACC leaves them nowhere else to go. They sure won't join the SEC, the Big 12 will be no use to them and the PAC is too far. They close the SEC gap by half and earn you more by closing the advertising backdoor into a lot of Big 10 cities. If you have to move to 18 with Duke so be it, another academic coup and basketball credits.

Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Penn State, Virginia

Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue, Rutgers

Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin

The ACC remnant and the B12 remnant form a new conference.
07-22-2021 03:21 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
(07-22-2021 03:21 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 03:04 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 02:35 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 01:32 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  The thing is that the UT/OU addition is such a monster expansion for the SEC that it’s hard for any league to really react. Nothing short of adding Notre Dame full-time could come close to moving the needle like that move.

That's it. If the UT/OU move happens, shortly after that the SEC will announce a big increase in the already huge TV deal they just made with ESPN.

... There's no point in expanding for the sake of expanding, or dividing a same-sized pie into more pieces. ...

This is the key point. "Keeping up" with the SEC is not keeping up with the size of the SEC, it's keeping up with the $$$/school.

But the only moves other than Notre Dame that would have increased the value per school involved Texas, Oklahoma, or both.
Here's the thing about Notre Dame. If the Big 10 wants them get the 20 million in North Carolina and Virginia. Striking the head of the ACC leaves them nowhere else to go. They sure won't join the SEC, the Big 12 will be no use to them and the PAC is too far. They close the SEC gap by half and earn you more by closing the advertising backdoor into a lot of Big 10 cities. If you have to move to 18 with Duke so be it, another academic coup and basketball credits.

Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Penn State, Virginia

Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue, Rutgers

Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin

The ACC remnant and the B12 remnant form a new conference.

We are talking 2036 here, when the ACC GOR runs out, but yes, agree. Following your logic ...

That "new" conference will more likely be the best of the B12 joining the ACC. That is Kansas, TCU and Baylor. I don't see value for the ACC in the "States" or Tech or even West Virginia. Maybe one will show they can still generate enough revenue and recruit enough to compete. But probably not. So your remnant ACC could look like this (not too bad really):

Syracuse, Pitt, BC, L'ville, VT, Wake, NC State, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami, KU, Baylor, TCU

The B12 will likely become populated by even more AAC schools when that happens, maybe a current MWC school as well. Perhaps something like this in 2036:

WVU, K State, I State, oSu, Tech, BYU, Houston, Cincy, UCF, Memphis, Colorado State and ???

That is how things tend to flow downhill. The AAC will look a lot like C-USA again (hello UAB, Rice, ODU; ECU, Tulsa and Tulane are here too).

But that is 2036 and we are not even to 2025. Who knows what the landscape will even look like by then.
07-22-2021 04:32 AM
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ken d Online
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RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
(07-21-2021 07:37 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 07:17 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Probably by asking some ACC schools if they’re interested.

I don’t think Florida State, Clemson and Georgia Tech will be happy seeing their SEC in state rivals make a lot of money while they get relegated to second or third tier.

That would be interesting. The public ACC schools come to the B1G as a block and says we'll be the southern division.
Virginia,
Virginia Tech,
North Carolina,
NC State,
Clemson,
Georgia Tech,
Florida State,

It gives the B1G southern exposure and keeps a fair amount of regional rivals.

I like it, but why stop there? Also add a Pacific division with:

Washington
Oregon
Stanford
California
USC
UCLA
Notre Dame

Coast to coast, north to south and you essentially have created a 44 team P2 and the B1G is almost twice as big as the SEC (28 vs 16).
07-22-2021 07:56 AM
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owlumni Offline
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Post: #52
RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
The only target for #15 should be Notre Dame in 2035-36. Then the best target for #16 should be Virginia.

Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin
Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue, Indiana
Notre Dame, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State
Virginia, Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers

or if Notre Dame wants guaranteed east coast exposure:

Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State
Notre Dame, Virginia, Maryland, Rutgers
07-22-2021 08:54 AM
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bluesox Offline
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Post: #53
RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
My first call for the big 10 would be to Missouri for spot #15 with KU getting #16. That would be a sweet manageable 16 team set up that would still make plenty of $ in the landscape of Texas and OU being in the sec.
07-22-2021 08:58 AM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #54
RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
I say swap A&M or Mizzou for Okie State and TTech to manage the political backlash. I mean, if those schools vote no to expansion, why would they want to stay there? Just let them walk with minimal penalties. I think A&M would be fantastic in the ACC. Mizzou in the B1G where they always wanted to be.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2021 09:03 AM by RUScarlets.)
07-22-2021 09:01 AM
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RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
Our idiot commissioner was clearly outplayed by his SEC counterpart. The Big Ten schools have been out there fishing for Oklahoma.

The SEC and ESPN has all of college football exactly where they want them. The own the ACC’s soul and no one there can move. The Big 10 has no one they can expand with that can add value unless we bust into the PAC 12 but the travel involved makes that highly unlikely.

I’m not a fan of any scheme that puts programs like UNC, UVA, or Duke in the Big Ten. those schools don’t care about or invest in football. In an eyeball driven market, they are dead weight.

At this point, our best bet is adding USC and ND.
07-22-2021 09:08 AM
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Rube Dali Offline
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Post: #56
RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
(07-22-2021 09:08 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Our idiot commissioner was clearly outplayed by his SEC counterpart. The Big Ten schools have been out there fishing for Oklahoma.

The SEC and ESPN has all of college football exactly where they want them. The own the ACC’s soul and no one there can move. The Big 10 has no one they can expand with.

SNIP

You could have stopped there with that. The B1G's only move is to keep Ohio State and Michigan in the fold.
07-22-2021 09:15 AM
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Post: #57
RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
(07-22-2021 09:08 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Our idiot commissioner was clearly outplayed by his SEC counterpart. The Big Ten schools have been out there fishing for Oklahoma.

The SEC and ESPN has all of college football exactly where they want them. The own the ACC’s soul and no one there can move. The Big 10 has no one they can expand with that can add value unless we bust into the PAC 12 but the travel involved makes that highly unlikely.

I’m not a fan of any scheme that puts programs like UNC, UVA, or Duke in the Big Ten. those schools don’t care about or invest in football. In an eyeball driven market, they are dead weight.

At this point, our best bet is adding USC and ND.
Delaney should've taken Nebraska, Missouri and Oklahoma a decade ago as a package deal instead of looking eastward (at Maryland and Rutgers) after taking Nebraska.
07-22-2021 09:23 AM
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RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
(07-22-2021 09:15 AM)Rube Dali Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 09:08 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Our idiot commissioner was clearly outplayed by his SEC counterpart. The Big Ten schools have been out there fishing for Oklahoma.

The SEC and ESPN has all of college football exactly where they want them. The own the ACC’s soul and no one there can move. The Big 10 has no one they can expand with.

SNIP

You could have stopped there with that. The B1G's only move is to keep Ohio State and Michigan in the fold.
I wonder how loyal are those two schools are to the conference.
07-22-2021 09:24 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
(07-22-2021 09:23 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 09:08 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Our idiot commissioner was clearly outplayed by his SEC counterpart. The Big Ten schools have been out there fishing for Oklahoma.

The SEC and ESPN has all of college football exactly where they want them. The own the ACC’s soul and no one there can move. The Big 10 has no one they can expand with that can add value unless we bust into the PAC 12 but the travel involved makes that highly unlikely.

I’m not a fan of any scheme that puts programs like UNC, UVA, or Duke in the Big Ten. those schools don’t care about or invest in football. In an eyeball driven market, they are dead weight.

At this point, our best bet is adding USC and ND.
Delaney should've taken Nebraska, Missouri and Oklahoma a decade ago as a package deal instead of looking eastward (at Maryland and Rutgers) after taking Nebraska.

That would have been a prudent move.
07-22-2021 09:26 AM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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RE: How does the B1G respond if OU and UT go to the SEC?
If the PAC12 offered to add Texas, TT, OU, and oSu, would that be seriously pondered? Maybe even include KU and KSU? Make two large 9-team divisions, east and west.

The PAC12 is very protective about their west coast identity, and have a few very protective and stubborn schools when it comes to expansion consideration.

I expect the BIG would be more comfortable with expanding compared to the P12. Schools the BIG would seek to add are just not in play currently.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2021 10:15 AM by OdinFrigg.)
07-22-2021 10:14 AM
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