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Oklahoma vs JMU softball
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JMURocks Offline
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Post: #641
RE: Oklahoma vs JMU softball
(06-10-2021 09:13 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  
(06-09-2021 06:06 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  I kept lurking the Tennessee and Mizzou boards, been interesting to see their perspective on our team, LaPorte, and everything. The Tennessee board especially, both because Mizzou has the worst layout I've ever seen for a message board in my life and because it seems like a lot of people that really know their softball on the Tennessee board.

Saw someone post this there. Sure not a lot of non-P5 commits on that list, and only one Virginia school:
https://twitter.com/PGFnetwork/status/14...89568?s=19

"East vs West" is a little misleading, might as well just call that game Cali versus everyone else. 15 of 40 participants from CA.

It is a bit odd, CA is a big state, but is the softball talent pool there really that deep compared to the rest of the US?

Only 2 players from TX, and none from the entire mid-Atlantic (unless you count the 1 NC player)
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2021 10:02 AM by JMURocks.)
06-10-2021 10:02 AM
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #642
RE: Oklahoma vs JMU softball
(06-10-2021 10:02 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 09:13 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  
(06-09-2021 06:06 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  I kept lurking the Tennessee and Mizzou boards, been interesting to see their perspective on our team, LaPorte, and everything. The Tennessee board especially, both because Mizzou has the worst layout I've ever seen for a message board in my life and because it seems like a lot of people that really know their softball on the Tennessee board.

Saw someone post this there. Sure not a lot of non-P5 commits on that list, and only one Virginia school:
https://twitter.com/PGFnetwork/status/14...89568?s=19

"East vs West" is a little misleading, might as well just call that game Cali versus everyone else. 15 of 40 participants from CA.

It is a bit odd, CA is a big state, but is the softball talent pool there really that deep compared to the rest of the US?

Only 2 players from TX, and none from the entire mid-Atlantic (unless you count the 1 NC player)

Yes.
06-10-2021 11:12 AM
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KickItToScotty Offline
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Post: #643
RE: Oklahoma vs JMU softball
(06-10-2021 09:09 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 08:23 AM)AllForDukes Wrote:  
(06-09-2021 07:56 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  Another big factor besides pro potential is scholarships. You get 12 scholarships to divide up, a lot more reason not to come back if you aren't getting a full scholarship.
NCAA allows extra year players to be provided other financial aid equivalent to a scholarship. Don't have to divy up total schollies at all. Not a factor.

I might be missing something but I believe it still is a factor. If a football player is on a full ride, there is no cash outlay difference if they play 4 years or 5 years, as there is no cash outlay at all. However, if a softball player is on a partial than they have already had 4 years of cash outlays and an additional 5th year would be another cash outlay. It doesn't matter that the NCAA is truing it back up at that partial scholarship level, they are still paying some amount of tuition (while putting off a paid job for 12 months versus say 6 with a football player graduating in December after the season).

Now if all of the RS-Jr were on full ride, then yeah I agree the tuition component for 2022 season wouldn't be a factor, but I have to assume that they are not all on full scholarship and I have to assume that the NCAA isn't just turning everyone that comes back into a full scholarship athlete.

Yeah exactly, I wasn't saying that the 12 need to be further divided up to allow for extra year players coming back, I was talking about the possibility that they were never receiving a full scholarship in the first place and would have to pay some amount of tuition if they come back. JMU had 21 players on this year's roster and looking at the past five years they always have somewhere from 20 to 25. I have no idea how exactly those 12 scholarships typically get divided up and if top players like CC, Gordon, and Jubas might get full rides. If someone like Jubas or Newton would have to pay at least a few thousand in tuition to come back on top of just other costs of living while waiting an extra year to go out and make money then the decision to come back is pretty different for them from that same decision for Matt Lewis or Cole Johnson.
06-10-2021 11:56 AM
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JMU83 Offline
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Post: #644
RE: Oklahoma vs JMU softball
(06-10-2021 11:56 AM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 09:09 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 08:23 AM)AllForDukes Wrote:  
(06-09-2021 07:56 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  Another big factor besides pro potential is scholarships. You get 12 scholarships to divide up, a lot more reason not to come back if you aren't getting a full scholarship.
NCAA allows extra year players to be provided other financial aid equivalent to a scholarship. Don't have to divy up total schollies at all. Not a factor.

I might be missing something but I believe it still is a factor. If a football player is on a full ride, there is no cash outlay difference if they play 4 years or 5 years, as there is no cash outlay at all. However, if a softball player is on a partial than they have already had 4 years of cash outlays and an additional 5th year would be another cash outlay. It doesn't matter that the NCAA is truing it back up at that partial scholarship level, they are still paying some amount of tuition (while putting off a paid job for 12 months versus say 6 with a football player graduating in December after the season).

Now if all of the RS-Jr were on full ride, then yeah I agree the tuition component for 2022 season wouldn't be a factor, but I have to assume that they are not all on full scholarship and I have to assume that the NCAA isn't just turning everyone that comes back into a full scholarship athlete.

Yeah exactly, I wasn't saying that the 12 need to be further divided up to allow for extra year players coming back, I was talking about the possibility that they were never receiving a full scholarship in the first place and would have to pay some amount of tuition if they come back. JMU had 21 players on this year's roster and looking at the past five years they always have somewhere from 20 to 25. I have no idea how exactly those 12 scholarships typically get divided up and if top players like CC, Gordon, and Jubas might get full rides. If someone like Jubas or Newton would have to pay at least a few thousand in tuition to come back on top of just other costs of living while waiting an extra year to go out and make money then the decision to come back is pretty different for them from that same decision for Matt Lewis or Cole Johnson.
Typically, softball and baseball players do not receive full rides. Baseball has even fewer schollies.(11.7). But pitchers/catchers/middle infielders/cf get more money than the other positions. I'm not saying those positions get more at JMU, but those are usually the more skilled positions and you can fill in the other 4 positions with others on the team.
06-10-2021 12:04 PM
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olddawg Offline
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Post: #645
RE: Oklahoma vs JMU softball
(06-10-2021 12:04 PM)JMU83 Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 11:56 AM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 09:09 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 08:23 AM)AllForDukes Wrote:  
(06-09-2021 07:56 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  Another big factor besides pro potential is scholarships. You get 12 scholarships to divide up, a lot more reason not to come back if you aren't getting a full scholarship.
NCAA allows extra year players to be provided other financial aid equivalent to a scholarship. Don't have to divy up total schollies at all. Not a factor.

I might be missing something but I believe it still is a factor. If a football player is on a full ride, there is no cash outlay difference if they play 4 years or 5 years, as there is no cash outlay at all. However, if a softball player is on a partial than they have already had 4 years of cash outlays and an additional 5th year would be another cash outlay. It doesn't matter that the NCAA is truing it back up at that partial scholarship level, they are still paying some amount of tuition (while putting off a paid job for 12 months versus say 6 with a football player graduating in December after the season).

Now if all of the RS-Jr were on full ride, then yeah I agree the tuition component for 2022 season wouldn't be a factor, but I have to assume that they are not all on full scholarship and I have to assume that the NCAA isn't just turning everyone that comes back into a full scholarship athlete.

Yeah exactly, I wasn't saying that the 12 need to be further divided up to allow for extra year players coming back, I was talking about the possibility that they were never receiving a full scholarship in the first place and would have to pay some amount of tuition if they come back. JMU had 21 players on this year's roster and looking at the past five years they always have somewhere from 20 to 25. I have no idea how exactly those 12 scholarships typically get divided up and if top players like CC, Gordon, and Jubas might get full rides. If someone like Jubas or Newton would have to pay at least a few thousand in tuition to come back on top of just other costs of living while waiting an extra year to go out and make money then the decision to come back is pretty different for them from that same decision for Matt Lewis or Cole Johnson.
Typically, softball and baseball players do not receive full rides. Baseball has even fewer schollies.(11.7). But pitchers/catchers/middle infielders/cf get more money than the other positions. I'm not saying those positions get more at JMU, but those are usually the more skilled positions and you can fill in the other 4 positions with others on the team.

I wish I knew more about the breakdown of softball scholarships at the P5s and here at little 'ol JMU. Are the power schools supplementing all these 1/2 athletic scholarships with mystery grants, questionable athletic scholarships and "student of the year" monetary awards from the hometown Elks Lodge? It does beg the question how the Softball Superpowers are able to have such an excess of riches when not offering full rides.

For example, Oklahoma's 2021 recruiting class has the #1 player in the country, 4 of the Top 10 and 7 of the Top 25. OU frequently gets these types of recruits. Heck, they're bringing up pinch hitters/ reserves, that would star on other Tourney teams. These are players that could go to any school they wanted. Are there no schools anywhere that might try to make a name for themselves by offering one of these elite players a full ride?

If you look at the high school accolades and awards for our players and Oklahoma's, we are not even close to being in the same zip code. We are barely in the same state. The bare minimum for them in recruiting is multiple All State selection pedigree. They also have several HS All- Americans, with a couple of different State Players of the Year winners. If that weren't enough, next year they will have two separate High School National Players of the Year on their roster.

It really puts into perspective what a tremendous accomplishment it was going toe to toe with them.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2021 01:26 PM by olddawg.)
06-10-2021 01:20 PM
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JMU2004 Offline
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Post: #646
RE: Oklahoma vs JMU softball
(06-10-2021 01:20 PM)olddawg Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 12:04 PM)JMU83 Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 11:56 AM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 09:09 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 08:23 AM)AllForDukes Wrote:  NCAA allows extra year players to be provided other financial aid equivalent to a scholarship. Don't have to divy up total schollies at all. Not a factor.

I might be missing something but I believe it still is a factor. If a football player is on a full ride, there is no cash outlay difference if they play 4 years or 5 years, as there is no cash outlay at all. However, if a softball player is on a partial than they have already had 4 years of cash outlays and an additional 5th year would be another cash outlay. It doesn't matter that the NCAA is truing it back up at that partial scholarship level, they are still paying some amount of tuition (while putting off a paid job for 12 months versus say 6 with a football player graduating in December after the season).

Now if all of the RS-Jr were on full ride, then yeah I agree the tuition component for 2022 season wouldn't be a factor, but I have to assume that they are not all on full scholarship and I have to assume that the NCAA isn't just turning everyone that comes back into a full scholarship athlete.

Yeah exactly, I wasn't saying that the 12 need to be further divided up to allow for extra year players coming back, I was talking about the possibility that they were never receiving a full scholarship in the first place and would have to pay some amount of tuition if they come back. JMU had 21 players on this year's roster and looking at the past five years they always have somewhere from 20 to 25. I have no idea how exactly those 12 scholarships typically get divided up and if top players like CC, Gordon, and Jubas might get full rides. If someone like Jubas or Newton would have to pay at least a few thousand in tuition to come back on top of just other costs of living while waiting an extra year to go out and make money then the decision to come back is pretty different for them from that same decision for Matt Lewis or Cole Johnson.
Typically, softball and baseball players do not receive full rides. Baseball has even fewer schollies.(11.7). But pitchers/catchers/middle infielders/cf get more money than the other positions. I'm not saying those positions get more at JMU, but those are usually the more skilled positions and you can fill in the other 4 positions with others on the team.

I wish I knew more about the breakdown of softball scholarships at the P5s and here at little 'ol JMU. Are the power schools supplementing all these 1/2 athletic scholarships with mystery grants, questionable athletic scholarships and "student of the year" monetary awards from the hometown Elks Lodge? It does beg the question how the Softball Superpowers are able to have such an excess of riches when not offering full rides.

For example, Oklahoma's 2021 recruiting class has the #1 player in the country, 4 of the Top 10 and 7 of the Top 25. OU frequently gets these types of recruits. Heck, they're bringing up pinch hitters/ reserves, that would star on other Tourney teams. These are players that could go to any school they wanted. Are there no schools anywhere that might try to make a name for themselves by offering one of these elite players a full ride?

If you look at the high school accolades and awards for our players and Oklahoma's, we are not even close to being in the same zip code. We are barely in the same state. The bare minimum for them in recruiting is multiple All State selection pedigree. They also have several HS All- Americans, with a couple of different State Players of the Year winners. If that weren't enough, next year they will have two separate High School National Players of the Year on their roster.

It really puts into perspective what a tremendous accomplishment it was going toe to toe with them.

Peeling back the layers of OU athletics funding would be eye opening, for many different reasons. One thing is for sure....they (and the majority of the P5) are playing with a stacked deck, and if they're not cheating, they're not trying.
06-10-2021 01:29 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #647
RE: Oklahoma vs JMU softball
OU up 5-1 going into the bottom of the 6th of the 3rd game with OU batting. It appears that OU has the NC nearly in the bag.
06-10-2021 03:47 PM
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KickItToScotty Offline
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Post: #648
RE: Oklahoma vs JMU softball
Yeah looking like JMU gave OU as good a fight as anyone.
06-10-2021 04:12 PM
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hburg Offline
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Post: #649
RE: Oklahoma vs JMU softball
Congrats OU. Wonder if the MVP will be CC?
06-10-2021 04:22 PM
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PurpleSoloCup84 Offline
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Post: #650
RE: Oklahoma vs JMU softball
Well, darn. I had no idea that the final game was this afternoon. I thought it was at 7 PM tonight. I guess I missed that memo. LOL! Oh, well. Congrats to OU.
06-10-2021 05:05 PM
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olddawg Offline
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Post: #651
RE: Oklahoma vs JMU softball
(06-10-2021 05:05 PM)PurpleSoloCup84 Wrote:  Well, darn. I had no idea that the final game was this afternoon. I thought it was at 7 PM tonight. I guess I missed that memo. LOL! Oh, well. Congrats to OU.

You, me and a lot of others. ESPN getting blasted for it too.
06-10-2021 06:02 PM
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DukeQuin Offline
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Post: #652
RE: Oklahoma vs JMU softball
(06-10-2021 06:02 PM)olddawg Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 05:05 PM)PurpleSoloCup84 Wrote:  Well, darn. I had no idea that the final game was this afternoon. I thought it was at 7 PM tonight. I guess I missed that memo. LOL! Oh, well. Congrats to OU.

You, me and a lot of others. ESPN getting blasted for it too.

This article from the Oklahoman about inequities focuses less on facility differences (although it still amazes me that the locker rooms don't have showers!) and more on how scheduling in the WCWS could be changed to help the players physically. For example, the lengthy interviews the teams do for ESPN has an effect on recovery time, because of the compressed schedule.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/c...903960001/
06-10-2021 06:58 PM
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PurpleSoloCup84 Offline
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Post: #653
RE: Oklahoma vs JMU softball
(06-03-2021 11:50 AM)jmufan2008 Wrote:  A dugout warning for coming out of the dugout on a 3-run HR to take a 3-0 lead against the #1 team in their first game in the WCWS? Give me a break.

So, watching the Men's baseball super regionals and every time one of them hits a home run, the entire team comes out of the dugout and they all jump in the air, and high five, and side bump and all that.

I'm still not getting why they won't let the ladies in softball celebrate. If I am remembering correctly, the announcers made reference after our dugout warning that you can't do that.
06-12-2021 02:27 PM
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sctvman Offline
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Post: #654
RE: Oklahoma vs JMU softball
(06-10-2021 11:12 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 10:02 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(06-10-2021 09:13 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  
(06-09-2021 06:06 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  I kept lurking the Tennessee and Mizzou boards, been interesting to see their perspective on our team, LaPorte, and everything. The Tennessee board especially, both because Mizzou has the worst layout I've ever seen for a message board in my life and because it seems like a lot of people that really know their softball on the Tennessee board.

Saw someone post this there. Sure not a lot of non-P5 commits on that list, and only one Virginia school:
https://twitter.com/PGFnetwork/status/14...89568?s=19

"East vs West" is a little misleading, might as well just call that game Cali versus everyone else. 15 of 40 participants from CA.

It is a bit odd, CA is a big state, but is the softball talent pool there really that deep compared to the rest of the US?

Only 2 players from TX, and none from the entire mid-Atlantic (unless you count the 1 NC player)

Yes.

There’s years College of Charleston gets half their roster from California. Much easier to recruit players when they can play all year.
06-12-2021 03:11 PM
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