The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(05-04-2018 10:15 PM)odu09 Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 06:26 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 04:38 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 12:40 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 12:27 PM)Maryland Monarch Wrote:  Borat says Kazakstan is #1 in Potassium. Therefore, it's a great country.

The point being that a ranking or a number is just a number, until it's put into perspective. Beating 150+ RPI teams < Beating RPI 50-100 Teams. The only reason to feel good about racking up a bunch of wins against creampuffs, is that you know you're better than a creampuff. Not beating anybody of significance in big games is a dead end. It's analogous to taking your cousin to the prom. Sure, you have a date to the prom, but nothing is going to come of it. Unless you're from West Virginia, you're not going to marry her and start a family. And if you do, that "family" is going to look a lot like the CBI or CIT or Vegas 8/16.

Right but I'm ceding the point that obviously ODU could be better with regards to the postseason and beating two of their three big rivals while at the same time arguing the point that 96 wins in four seasons does NOT in and of itself mean that the program is bad or that the coach sucks.

FWIW, I think a lot of D1 programs would like to have ODU's last four seasons, postseason letdowns notwithstanding. That doesn't mean that things can't or shouldn't be better, but it's not like ODU is the Gardner-Webb JV squad or something.

But we're not lots of programs. We're ODU and post season play is expected. JJ record can never be viewed strictly in terms of wins/losses. That has no context. His record is vastly diminished when you cond=sider who his teams beat, who they lose to and how many post season tourneys his tams make. All things considered, he's failing IMHO.

JJ is exactly what many of us were afraid of. Able to deliver lots of cotton candy wins, not good enough to get us to the dance and not bad enough to fire.

Unpopular opinion time: This "we're not lots of programs; we're ODU and postseason play is expected" argument that's popular around here doesn't really hold up. ODU has three NCAA wins in its D1 history — VCU and George Mason beat that in one year and Richmond tied it. ODU has only been to back-to-back NCAAs twice. ODU has 11 NCAA appearances in the 40-ish seasons they've been in D1, tied with a bunch of schools for which the NCAAs are a reasonable goal but NOT an expectation (except Clemson, but that's because of how good that program is in the now). But the way people go on around here, you'd think this was Memphis enduring Tubby Smith.

ODU is a fine program with decent successes and great facilities. There's certainly no reason to think they *can't* be consistently good, or have an NCAA run similar to VCU's recent stretch. But I think treating is as some sort of, I dunno, entitlement doesn't jibe with their history.

Unpopular on here yet it's true. There's a reason why there's several fans on the conference board who hate us. Sometimes we come across as entitled and that we should be the best and this conference is a stepping stone for a move up, when in reality we've done jack since joining the conference unless you count losing championship games.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

We could be the best program in conference USA if we got a real coach with some juice........I honestly believe that.

We are where we are because Jeff jones is exactly who I thought he was.

(05-05-2018 09:14 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 11:14 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Not that it matters, but scoring 3 more points against Middle Tennessee doesn't give ODU two NCAA trips under Jeff.

Three points against Middle Tennessee = NCAA trip
One more win in 2014-15 = from NIT top seed to NCAA First Four
W&M prayer goes unanswered = from NIT bubble to NIT 6 seed

Quote:No point in playing the "what if" game when we have actual results - or lack thereof - to review. Otherwise, you could just as easily say that had ODU score three more points against Butler in DC, they could have gone to the Final Four instead of them, and defeated VCU there for the 3rd time that season to go to the NCAA Championship game.

That's actually not an unreasonable possibility, given that ODU matched up pretty well with the teams that they would have played, and I've brought that up as a what-if before. My point with this was to show how very subtle changes to three of their games would likely have given them *much* better results even though essentially they're the same team than one that we saw. Pointing out the fine line between "get this loser out of here" and "hail hail the conquering hero," unless people would be pushing for his ouster with 98 wins and two NCAA trips in four seasons. Which is certainly possible.

Quote:Had Jeff's ODU teams actually accomplished those things that you said above instead of pretending they did then I doubt very many on here would be hoping for something better coaching wise.

Which is exactly my point. If those breaks went his way, it's not as though the team would have been dramatically better. It would have been the same team with happier conclusions. Does he suddenly become a much better coach because of that?

Oh my god who gives a crap.

1 more basket against butler and maybe Blaine makes the final 4 and doesn’t destroy his life for the second time?

You know who plays hypotheticals? People who didn’t get it done the first time.

(05-05-2018 10:53 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(05-05-2018 09:14 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 11:14 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Not that it matters, but scoring 3 more points against Middle Tennessee doesn't give ODU two NCAA trips under Jeff.

Three points against Middle Tennessee = NCAA trip
One more win in 2014-15 = from NIT top seed to NCAA First Four
W&M prayer goes unanswered = from NIT bubble to NIT 6 seed

Quote:No point in playing the "what if" game when we have actual results - or lack thereof - to review. Otherwise, you could just as easily say that had ODU score three more points against Butler in DC, they could have gone to the Final Four instead of them, and defeated VCU there for the 3rd time that season to go to the NCAA Championship game.

That's actually not an unreasonable possibility, given that ODU matched up pretty well with the teams that they would have played, and I've brought that up as a what-if before. My point with this was to show how very subtle changes to three of their games would likely have given them *much* better results even though essentially they're the same team than one that we saw. Pointing out the fine line between "get this loser out of here" and "hail hail the conquering hero," unless people would be pushing for his ouster with 98 wins and two NCAA trips in four seasons. Which is certainly possible.

Quote:Had Jeff's ODU teams actually accomplished those things that you said above instead of pretending they did then I doubt very many on here would be hoping for something better coaching wise.

Which is exactly my point. If those breaks went his way, it's not as though the team would have been dramatically better. It would have been the same team with happier conclusions. Does he suddenly become a much better coach because of that?

Oh my god who gives a crap.

1 more basket against butler and maybe Blaine makes the final 4 and doesn’t destroy his life for the second time?

You know who plays hypotheticals? People who didn’t get it done the first time.

It's not theoretical what-if bull****, it's "this is how close ODU got to going to 2 NCAAs and an NIT instead of 1 NIT and no NCAAs". People act like ODU's a mid-pack MEAC team but they're a lot closer to "acceptable" than a lot of people here believe.

(05-05-2018 11:30 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-05-2018 10:53 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(05-05-2018 09:14 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 11:14 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Not that it matters, but scoring 3 more points against Middle Tennessee doesn't give ODU two NCAA trips under Jeff.

Three points against Middle Tennessee = NCAA trip
One more win in 2014-15 = from NIT top seed to NCAA First Four
W&M prayer goes unanswered = from NIT bubble to NIT 6 seed

Quote:No point in playing the "what if" game when we have actual results - or lack thereof - to review. Otherwise, you could just as easily say that had ODU score three more points against Butler in DC, they could have gone to the Final Four instead of them, and defeated VCU there for the 3rd time that season to go to the NCAA Championship game.

That's actually not an unreasonable possibility, given that ODU matched up pretty well with the teams that they would have played, and I've brought that up as a what-if before. My point with this was to show how very subtle changes to three of their games would likely have given them *much* better results even though essentially they're the same team than one that we saw. Pointing out the fine line between "get this loser out of here" and "hail hail the conquering hero," unless people would be pushing for his ouster with 98 wins and two NCAA trips in four seasons. Which is certainly possible.

Quote:Had Jeff's ODU teams actually accomplished those things that you said above instead of pretending they did then I doubt very many on here would be hoping for something better coaching wise.

Which is exactly my point. If those breaks went his way, it's not as though the team would have been dramatically better. It would have been the same team with happier conclusions. Does he suddenly become a much better coach because of that?

Oh my god who gives a crap.

1 more basket against butler and maybe Blaine makes the final 4 and doesn’t destroy his life for the second time?

You know who plays hypotheticals? People who didn’t get it done the first time.

It's not theoretical what-if bull****, it's "this is how close ODU got to going to 2 NCAAs and an NIT instead of 1 NIT and no NCAAs". People act like ODU's a mid-pack MEAC team but they're a lot closer to "acceptable" than a lot of people here believe.

LOL. Maybe that should be the new marketing slogan. ODU Basketball: Close to Acceptable.

(05-06-2018 05:46 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(05-05-2018 11:30 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-05-2018 10:53 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(05-05-2018 09:14 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 11:14 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Not that it matters, but scoring 3 more points against Middle Tennessee doesn't give ODU two NCAA trips under Jeff.

Three points against Middle Tennessee = NCAA trip
One more win in 2014-15 = from NIT top seed to NCAA First Four
W&M prayer goes unanswered = from NIT bubble to NIT 6 seed

Quote:No point in playing the "what if" game when we have actual results - or lack thereof - to review. Otherwise, you could just as easily say that had ODU score three more points against Butler in DC, they could have gone to the Final Four instead of them, and defeated VCU there for the 3rd time that season to go to the NCAA Championship game.

That's actually not an unreasonable possibility, given that ODU matched up pretty well with the teams that they would have played, and I've brought that up as a what-if before. My point with this was to show how very subtle changes to three of their games would likely have given them *much* better results even though essentially they're the same team than one that we saw. Pointing out the fine line between "get this loser out of here" and "hail hail the conquering hero," unless people would be pushing for his ouster with 98 wins and two NCAA trips in four seasons. Which is certainly possible.

Quote:Had Jeff's ODU teams actually accomplished those things that you said above instead of pretending they did then I doubt very many on here would be hoping for something better coaching wise.

Which is exactly my point. If those breaks went his way, it's not as though the team would have been dramatically better. It would have been the same team with happier conclusions. Does he suddenly become a much better coach because of that?

Oh my god who gives a crap.

1 more basket against butler and maybe Blaine makes the final 4 and doesn’t destroy his life for the second time?

You know who plays hypotheticals? People who didn’t get it done the first time.

It's not theoretical what-if bull****, it's "this is how close ODU got to going to 2 NCAAs and an NIT instead of 1 NIT and no NCAAs". People act like ODU's a mid-pack MEAC team but they're a lot closer to "acceptable" than a lot of people here believe.

LOL. Maybe that should be the new marketing slogan. ODU Basketball: Close to Acceptable.

Aim Medium

(05-06-2018 05:46 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(05-05-2018 11:30 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-05-2018 10:53 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(05-05-2018 09:14 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 11:14 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Not that it matters, but scoring 3 more points against Middle Tennessee doesn't give ODU two NCAA trips under Jeff.

Three points against Middle Tennessee = NCAA trip
One more win in 2014-15 = from NIT top seed to NCAA First Four
W&M prayer goes unanswered = from NIT bubble to NIT 6 seed

Quote:No point in playing the "what if" game when we have actual results - or lack thereof - to review. Otherwise, you could just as easily say that had ODU score three more points against Butler in DC, they could have gone to the Final Four instead of them, and defeated VCU there for the 3rd time that season to go to the NCAA Championship game.

That's actually not an unreasonable possibility, given that ODU matched up pretty well with the teams that they would have played, and I've brought that up as a what-if before. My point with this was to show how very subtle changes to three of their games would likely have given them *much* better results even though essentially they're the same team than one that we saw. Pointing out the fine line between "get this loser out of here" and "hail hail the conquering hero," unless people would be pushing for his ouster with 98 wins and two NCAA trips in four seasons. Which is certainly possible.

Quote:Had Jeff's ODU teams actually accomplished those things that you said above instead of pretending they did then I doubt very many on here would be hoping for something better coaching wise.

Which is exactly my point. If those breaks went his way, it's not as though the team would have been dramatically better. It would have been the same team with happier conclusions. Does he suddenly become a much better coach because of that?

Oh my god who gives a crap.

1 more basket against butler and maybe Blaine makes the final 4 and doesn’t destroy his life for the second time?

You know who plays hypotheticals? People who didn’t get it done the first time.

It's not theoretical what-if bull****, it's "this is how close ODU got to going to 2 NCAAs and an NIT instead of 1 NIT and no NCAAs". People act like ODU's a mid-pack MEAC team but they're a lot closer to "acceptable" than a lot of people here believe.

LOL. Maybe that should be the new marketing slogan. ODU Basketball: Close to Acceptable.

The problem is that there really isn't any such category for basketball teams or their coaches as "close to acceptable". They are either acceptable, or they are not. The only question is, if they are not acceptable, how long do you give them to become so.

The NIT is “very close to acceptable”. The C-tournaments are “sort of close but not really acceptable”

And we should have gotten in the NIT last year (unfortunate luck w/the autobids). The string on ODU men’s basketball twitter b/t Nik B and an antagonist is telling. Nik’s support of Jones and the staff is insightful.

It’s interesting if you look at the CAA’s dance record since we and VCU left. They have done nothing except for one win by JMU several years back in a 16 seed play-in game. ODU, VCU, and GMU were the crowning jewels of the CAA. And the jewels are gone. CUSA’s record in both the dance and NIT is significantly better. I’m not a fan of our bball schedule, but it’s hard to argue CAA is a better conference than CUSA. And my point is Jones is having to compete in a tougher/top heavy conference. The two Freeman teams most likely would have won the CAA tourney. And the same for last year’s squad (only CoC would have had a chance).

I don’t know I buy that MTSU, WKU, Marshall and UAB are better than VCU, GMU, UNCW and some of those old Drexel, NE and Hofstra teams. Equal maybe, but the old CAA is was pretty tough at the top too. JJ has it tough, but other than the travel, no tougher than BT.

This past season CUSA was better at the top than any season we ever played in the CAA.

Well Empty sue got ranked late in the season this year... and we got ranked late in the season in CUSA too. That’s a reflection of the top teams in the conf feeding from each other’s rpi, no?

(05-07-2018 09:19 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  This past season CUSA was better at the top than any season we ever played in the CAA.

I don't know about that. ODU finished 2nd in C-USA this year and they certainly weren't as good as some of the teams Blaine had.

(05-07-2018 10:16 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 09:19 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  This past season CUSA was better at the top than any season we ever played in the CAA.

I don't know about that. ODU finished 2nd in C-USA this year and they certainly weren't as good as some of the teams Blaine had.

^ TRUTH ^

(05-04-2018 10:15 PM)odu09 Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 06:26 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 04:38 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 12:40 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 12:27 PM)Maryland Monarch Wrote:  Borat says Kazakstan is #1 in Potassium. Therefore, it's a great country.

The point being that a ranking or a number is just a number, until it's put into perspective. Beating 150+ RPI teams < Beating RPI 50-100 Teams. The only reason to feel good about racking up a bunch of wins against creampuffs, is that you know you're better than a creampuff. Not beating anybody of significance in big games is a dead end. It's analogous to taking your cousin to the prom. Sure, you have a date to the prom, but nothing is going to come of it. Unless you're from West Virginia, you're not going to marry her and start a family. And if you do, that "family" is going to look a lot like the CBI or CIT or Vegas 8/16.

Right but I'm ceding the point that obviously ODU could be better with regards to the postseason and beating two of their three big rivals while at the same time arguing the point that 96 wins in four seasons does NOT in and of itself mean that the program is bad or that the coach sucks.

FWIW, I think a lot of D1 programs would like to have ODU's last four seasons, postseason letdowns notwithstanding. That doesn't mean that things can't or shouldn't be better, but it's not like ODU is the Gardner-Webb JV squad or something.

But we're not lots of programs. We're ODU and post season play is expected. JJ record can never be viewed strictly in terms of wins/losses. That has no context. His record is vastly diminished when you cond=sider who his teams beat, who they lose to and how many post season tourneys his tams make. All things considered, he's failing IMHO.

JJ is exactly what many of us were afraid of. Able to deliver lots of cotton candy wins, not good enough to get us to the dance and not bad enough to fire.

Unpopular opinion time: This "we're not lots of programs; we're ODU and postseason play is expected" argument that's popular around here doesn't really hold up. ODU has three NCAA wins in its D1 history — VCU and George Mason beat that in one year and Richmond tied it. ODU has only been to back-to-back NCAAs twice. ODU has 11 NCAA appearances in the 40-ish seasons they've been in D1, tied with a bunch of schools for which the NCAAs are a reasonable goal but NOT an expectation (except Clemson, but that's because of how good that program is in the now). But the way people go on around here, you'd think this was Memphis enduring Tubby Smith.

ODU is a fine program with decent successes and great facilities. There's certainly no reason to think they *can't* be consistently good, or have an NCAA run similar to VCU's recent stretch. But I think treating is as some sort of, I dunno, entitlement doesn't jibe with their history.

Unpopular on here yet it's true. There's a reason why there's several fans on the conference board who hate us. Sometimes we come across as entitled and that we should be the best and this conference is a stepping stone for a move up, when in reality we've done jack since joining the conference unless you count losing championship games.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

So you are saying we should be content with doing "jack"? Not sure I get your point. I also don't give a hoot what any of the fans on the conference board think about us. I don't know a single one of them and never will. We are definitely entitled to more success than we have seen in the last 6 years where we are 1-5 against VCU and W&M and 0 for 6 in NCAA appearances. We did have one decent year, but frankly, the fact that we crapped the bed and blew an exceptional opportunity due to our OOC success kind of ruined it. Being at the Ted for the Freeman buzzer beater salvaged what was really an extremely disappointing 2nd half of the season.

(05-07-2018 10:16 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 09:19 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  This past season CUSA was better at the top than any season we ever played in the CAA.

I don't know about that. ODU finished 2nd in C-USA this year and they certainly weren't as good as some of the teams Blaine had.

Middle Tennessee was a 1 seed in the NIT
Western Kentucky made the NIT semifinals
ODU was one of the final teams out of the NIT
Marshall, the fourth-best team and a team that ODU swept, won a game in the NCAA, the fourth year that a CUSA team won in the tournament — which the CAA *has* never done.

I think you can make a pretty decent case that the top four of CUSA this past season was better than the CAA's top four at any point in its history.

(05-04-2018 10:27 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 09:09 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  As you stated, ODU has 11 NCAA Tourney appearances in its history. How many wins they have in those tournament appearances has nothing to do with the comment that you replied to which was ... "We're ODU and post season play is expected". Getting there achieved that point. I believe that the poster also was probably referencing the NIT as well as the NCAA Tournament with that comment.

If you take a look at the Paul Webb era at ODU, and more recently, the Blaine Taylor era, you will see that it was a reasonable comment.

I don't think that anyone is treating ODU and the NCAA Tourney as an entitlement, or the school as the 2nd coming of Memphis. All people seem to be saying in general is that ODU has taken a few steps back from where they recently were in getting to the post season on a much more regular basis - not including any tournaments other than the NCAA or NIT.

OK, so take the NCAA results out of the equation. We're still talking about making the tournament 25 percent of the time and only making the tournament back to back twice. That's still not a record that screams "we expect postseason play."

The funny thing is, you find one more win during the NIT Final Four run, score three more points against Middle Tennessee in the 2016 CUSA final and have that big goof for W&M miss that heave at the end this past season, and you're looking at JJ with 98 wins, two NCAA trips and an NIT bid. Effectively the same results, but they look a LOT better.

The actual result is that JJ's teams never step up and take it to the next level in big games during crunch time when it matters. Every single time it is ice cold shooting. Sometimes the game is close with decent defense, but when that happens, the other team always steps it up down the stretch and we have no answer. There is a reason why we always need just a handful more points against MTSU, WKU etc. There is a reason that we can never seem to hit the broad side of a barn in a big game.

(05-07-2018 09:19 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  This past season CUSA was better at the top than any season we ever played in the CAA.

Not a chance. MTSU would have competed and WKU had enough to play spoiler (they were too inconsistent to win it), but no way this year's ODU, Marshall, or UAB finished in the top half of those CAAs.

(05-07-2018 10:36 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 09:19 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  This past season CUSA was better at the top than any season we ever played in the CAA.

Not a chance. MTSU would have competed and WKU had enough to play spoiler (they were too inconsistent to win it), but no way this year's ODU, Marshall, or UAB finished in the top half of those CAAs.

Maybe for the last couple of years in the CAA.

For the majority of it's existence, the CAA sucked.

(05-07-2018 10:51 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 10:36 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(05-07-2018 09:19 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  This past season CUSA was better at the top than any season we ever played in the CAA.

Not a chance. MTSU would have competed and WKU had enough to play spoiler (they were too inconsistent to win it), but no way this year's ODU, Marshall, or UAB finished in the top half of those CAAs.

Maybe for the last couple of years in the CAA.


For the majority of it's existence, the CAA sucked.

Agree. I remember a cartoon in the Richmond Times Dispatch sports section one year during the CAA tourney. It showed farm animals playing in a barn yard labeled "CAA Tournament" and the Barn right next to it had a sign on it was labeled "NCAA Tournament, Slaughter House" underneath it.

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