(05-17-2023 06:14 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

Wow, interesting. Was wondering when this might happen.

Hopefully this is being well coordinated by a group like the alpha dogs, and includes some good incentives to donate.

https://cis.scc.virginia.gov/EntitySearc...0=%20false

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

(05-17-2023 07:30 PM)JMU85 Wrote:  https://cis.scc.virginia.gov/EntitySearc...0=%20false

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_va/11467147

Directors / Officers
Jared Douglas DeRuby
Joseph Francis Showker
Larry Wayne Caudle
Larry Wayne Caudle Jr,
Samuel Steven Silek
William Clifford Wood

This is awesome news. Exciting stuff for the future of JMU athletics.

(05-17-2023 08:51 PM)Anders Wrote:  This is awesome news. Exciting stuff for the future of JMU athletics.

Sometimes we seem to move a little slow, but we usually get things right. The "right" people are running this, and its clearly being thought out in great detail from many aspects.

Heard a rumor last year this was coming, but didn't have any specifics. Eager to hear what they announce.

I am not an alpha dog or top tier giver, which makes the fact I’m where I am in the rank of DC givers kind of sad. Anyway, the several very high ranked, way way up there, DC folks I know have staunchly resisted this NIL thing so far. They give a lot already. They get credit for it and have access to things only big dogs get. One told me tonight “if that’s what it takes to keep our move up going I’m for it.” He’s not committed to the aforementioned collective yet, but I got the sense he will be. Since NIL Collectives can have 501C3 status where the students are independent contractors who further the non-profit’s mission I would think these big donors could have some tax benefit, even though it doesn’t help their DC rank etc. interested to see where this goes

I would imagine people have limits on what they want to budget for giving so will this actually help or will roughly the same amount be torn into two different causes, the Duke Club and the NIL?

(05-18-2023 05:58 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  I would imagine people have limits on what they want to budget for giving so will this actually help or will roughly the same amount be torn into two different causes, the Duke Club and the NIL?

I wondered the same, specifically for school facilities. SEC has an arms race where they are consistently building better locker rooms, weight rooms, practice fields, lounges, cafeterias, etc. If their biggest donors say they are tapped out and have to split donations with an NIL, there will be cuts to those facilities. Even if the donors reach deeper into their wallets, the total amount may continue to go up but I think the schools are still going to get less.

(05-18-2023 05:58 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  I would imagine people have limits on what they want to budget for giving so will this actually help or will roughly the same amount be torn into two different causes, the Duke Club and the NIL?

I think the answer ultimately is NO. I’m not talking people with Elon money or Boone Pickens or the dude at O with the Nike $$$, and they don’t want their DC status to go down. But they are digging a little deeper is the sense I got, not just dividing what they give. God bless them for their service is all I can say.

(05-17-2023 06:14 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

If nothing else, great name.

(05-18-2023 05:58 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  I would imagine people have limits on what they want to budget for giving so will this actually help or will roughly the same amount be torn into two different causes, the Duke Club and the NIL?

There's a lot of details not released yet. Some collectives have high thresholds and are targeted to business and wealthy individuals, and others ask for small donations from a large number of people ... like as low as $50-$100/month, almost like a subscription.

Looking forward to hearing what the plan is. The people involved I think are intelligent enough to navigate these waters and not have it siphon funds from the core program.

Time to open our wallets a bit more :D

https://montpeliercollective.com/

(05-18-2023 09:06 AM)JMU08 Wrote:  Time to open our wallets a bit more :D

https://montpeliercollective.com/

Some good info there, donate button isn't active yet.

Quote:A charitable organization that awards stipends to student athletes at James Madison University that volunteer with local charities as part of a contract with the Collective. The student athletes will learn the importance of being actively engaged with their local communities as they serve local 501©(3) charitable institutions.

Quote:The Montpelier Collective is a 501©(3) charity; therefore, your donation would be eligible to be a tax deduction.

Quote:Donors to the Montpelier Collective can direct their donation to any of JMU’s fully supported sports. The Montpelier Board of Directors will decide which student athletes within that sport receive a contract.

Montpelier Collective Wrote:WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE DUKE CLUB AND THE MONTPELIER COLLECTIVE?
The Duke Club is the fundraising arm of JMU Athletics. The Duke Club raises money for student athlete scholarships and to support the athletic budget. The Collective is a charitable organization that contracts with student athletes to provide a stipend to them for performing volunteer work for local charities.

Interesting, they're not going to be getting $$$ just for the sake of getting it, they'll be expected to something extra for it.

I suppose this is how they are able to go the tax deductible route for donors, which probably makes it more palatable for some to accept. If it was formed to offer something like advertising sponsorships to athletes (like an ad agency), I'd guess that contributions would not be tax deductible as it would be more of a commercial enterprise.

Glad we have started this up and appear to be doing it the right way. Everyone's gonna have to open the wallets a little more.
Found this wording interesting: "The central goal of the Collective is to prepare student athletes for a lifetime commitment to charitable endeavors."
Not sure the athlete's line of thinking and the Collective's goal will truly match up, but we can always hope.

(05-18-2023 09:50 AM)olddawg Wrote:  Glad we have started this up and appear to be doing it the right way. Everyone's gonna have to open the wallets a little more.
Found this wording interesting: "The central goal of the Collective is to prepare student athletes for a lifetime commitment to charitable endeavors."
Not sure the athlete's line of thinking and the Collective's goal will truly match up, but we can always hope.

Sorry to be Debbie Downer, but I'm very skeptical and don't believe that the collective's approach will make a meaningful impact. My main concern is that the monetary value of a stipend paid to a student athlete is extremely low. Here's what's allowed under Federal law:

Quote:In addition, there are a few other ways to determine whether a true nonprofit/volunteer relationship exists under federal law:

The worker performs services typically associated with volunteer work;

The worker doesn’t displace any regular employees;

The activity is less than full-time; and

The services are truly voluntary, and not performed as a result of any pressure or coercion (for instance, an employee who is asked to “volunteer” extra time).

The law acknowledges the fact that many nonprofits want to give volunteers stipends, reimbursements for out-of-pocket expenses, or other tokens of appreciation. For this reason, the law allows a volunteer to be paid expenses, reasonable benefits, and/or a nominal fee to perform services. A fee is likely to be considered nominal if it’s not a substitute for compensation or tied to productivity and does not exceed twenty percent (20%) of what an employer would pay to hire a full-time employee for the same services.

https://www.legalforgood.com/post/nonpro...d-stipends

The bold part is the issue. Say the collective would pay a (non-college graduate) employee $15 an hour to perform the services that the athlete would perform. That's about $30,000 per year, which would cap the stipend at $6,000 per year assuming the student athlete volunteers 2,000 hours per year.

In reality, the athletes will perform far, far less than 2,000 hours per year of volunteer work. Basically, you need to calculate the hourly wage of an 501©(3) employee with similar responsibilities, multiply it by 20%, and then multiply it by the hours that the student athlete actually volunteers.

Let's say you structure a stipend that pays an athlete $10,000 for 100 hours of volunteer work per year. You would need to be able to substantiate that a full-time employee of the 501©(3) performing those same services would be paid around $1M per year. ($1M * 20%) / (100 / 2,000) = $10,000

This approach seems incredibly dubious and of questionable benefit. Maybe we have a tax attorney here who can provide more insight.

(05-18-2023 09:28 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

Montpelier Collective Wrote:WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE DUKE CLUB AND THE MONTPELIER COLLECTIVE?
The Duke Club is the fundraising arm of JMU Athletics. The Duke Club raises money for student athlete scholarships and to support the athletic budget. The Collective is a charitable organization that contracts with student athletes to provide a stipend to them for performing volunteer work for local charities.

Interesting, they're not going to be getting $$$ just for the sake of getting it, they'll be expected to something extra for it.

This is how every collective works. Can't just give the athlete money so in order to make it tax deductible they essentially pay the athlete to do charitable work, appearances, etc.

This is different from businesses who are essentially paying the athlete to perform services involving their name, image, and likeness which was the original intent of the rule to begin with.

I plan on taking part in the collective in lieu of other donations outside of Duke Club.

As someone noted there will be a push and pull regarding donors choosing between collective and giving for new infrastructure, etc. as most will not want to drop their DC contributions to avoid losing their status. It should be noted that capital contributions are part of the calculation of priority points.

The collective team may have not been prepared for the announcement but it seems like a big miss to not have the donation system set-up while the fan base is excited about it following the announcement.

(05-18-2023 10:55 AM)We Are the Dukes of JMU Wrote:  

(05-18-2023 09:50 AM)olddawg Wrote:  Glad we have started this up and appear to be doing it the right way. Everyone's gonna have to open the wallets a little more.
Found this wording interesting: "The central goal of the Collective is to prepare student athletes for a lifetime commitment to charitable endeavors."
Not sure the athlete's line of thinking and the Collective's goal will truly match up, but we can always hope.

Sorry to be Debbie Downer, but I'm very skeptical and don't believe that the collective's approach will make a meaningful impact. My main concern is that the monetary value of a stipend paid to a student athlete is extremely low. Here's what's allowed under Federal law:

Quote:In addition, there are a few other ways to determine whether a true nonprofit/volunteer relationship exists under federal law:

The worker performs services typically associated with volunteer work;

The worker doesn’t displace any regular employees;

The activity is less than full-time; and

The services are truly voluntary, and not performed as a result of any pressure or coercion (for instance, an employee who is asked to “volunteer” extra time).

The law acknowledges the fact that many nonprofits want to give volunteers stipends, reimbursements for out-of-pocket expenses, or other tokens of appreciation. For this reason, the law allows a volunteer to be paid expenses, reasonable benefits, and/or a nominal fee to perform services. A fee is likely to be considered nominal if it’s not a substitute for compensation or tied to productivity and does not exceed twenty percent (20%) of what an employer would pay to hire a full-time employee for the same services.

https://www.legalforgood.com/post/nonpro...d-stipends

The bold part is the issue. Say the collective would pay a (non-college graduate) employee $15 an hour to perform the services that the athlete would perform. That's about $30,000 per year, which would cap the stipend at $6,000 per year assuming the student athlete volunteers 2,000 hours per year.

In reality, the athletes will perform far, far less than 2,000 hours per year of volunteer work. Basically, you need to calculate the hourly wage of an 501©(3) employee with similar responsibilities, multiply it by 20%, and then multiply it by the hours that the student athlete actually volunteers.

Let's say you structure a stipend that pays an athlete $10,000 for 100 hours of volunteer work per year. You would need to be able to substantiate that a full-time employee of the 501©(3) performing those same services would be paid around $1M per year. ($1M * 20%) / (100 / 2,000) = $10,000

This approach seems incredibly dubious and of questionable benefit. Maybe we have a tax attorney here who can provide more insight.

Not a lawyer, but I can unequivocally state that the above does not hold true for all of the large collectives that currently exist. The question of what the IRS thinks of all of these is another question entirely.