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dsquare Online
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Post: #61
RE: 3rd and 2
One other thing is when i read Ridder is considering declaring for the draft i kind of scratch my head. He's good in certain areas, but his pocket presence and ability to make decisions is still iffy. In the Nfl you have to be able to make decisive decisions to avoid pressure and move on to the next play. At times he does, but other times not so much. I still don't know how he and the other guy didn't recover that fumble at the start of the 4th quarter as they were both right on it, but i guess that's the way the ball rolled. With a 21 to 10 lead that was about the only thing you could not do. We really could have used Doaks and some inside running attempts at that point in the game. Oh well, i thought we did gain a measure of respectability, but that one will hurt for a while.
 
01-02-2021 12:37 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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RE: 3rd and 2
Ridder looked like a second day draft choice in the 1st half and then looked like a guy from the accounting department in the second half.
 
01-02-2021 12:43 PM
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dsquare Online
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RE: 3rd and 2
(01-02-2021 12:43 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Ridder looked like a second day draft choice in the 1st half and then looked like a guy from the accounting department in the second half.

Yea, there's a feel that great qb's have to avoid giving the advantage to the other team whether it's avoiding pressure and getting rid of the ball, fumbling, or even in that third down situation just tucking it in and running it to keep the clock going. That throw downfield on third and two was high risk for a lot of reasons and likely our best result could have been for a flag. You have to make much quicker and better decisions at Nfl speed. He's not there. Not to mention the throwing accuracy issues.

I kind of wonder if Fickell isn't covering for Ridder there throwing the ball downfield on 3rd and 2 when he could have run and kept that clock running.
 
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2021 01:01 PM by dsquare.)
01-02-2021 12:54 PM
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Post: #64
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-02-2021 12:43 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Ridder looked like a second day draft choice in the 1st half and then looked like a guy from the accounting department in the second half.

Personally I dont see Ridder making it in the NFL. However, I think the second half showed just how dramatic the drop off in the overall offense is with Hudson out and Metz in. Its truly remarkable actually.
 
01-02-2021 01:59 PM
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Post: #65
RE: 3rd and 2
I think another issue [not that it changes my mind on the call] is Metz and Robinson on the line. If Renfro's wide, bulldozer body was in there and Hudson was holding the edge, the Staff may have been more inclined to call a direct running play with either a Des keeper or to Ford. The call was to flush away from Metz's side and Robinson for that matter. Again, I thought for sure I was going to see Des make a cut upfield and then the lame duck pass that allowed the corner to recover on the ball happened.
 
01-02-2021 02:02 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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RE: 3rd and 2
I stand corrected. It looks like a pass play all the way. Rid is buying time to get the receiver open and actually drifts deeper as he flushes to his right. At least, that's what it looks like on film review...


 
01-02-2021 02:11 PM
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Post: #67
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-02-2021 02:11 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  I stand corrected. It looks like a pass play all the way. Rid is buying time to get the receiver open and actually drifts deeper as he flushes to his right. At least, that's what it looks like on film review...



Those last words are haunting... "An appropriate ending for Georgia."

And Cincinnati. 03-puke
 
01-02-2021 04:09 PM
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Post: #68
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-02-2021 11:12 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 10:39 AM)Racinejake Wrote:  Rewatching that play Young was wide open and Ridder's throw was just awful. Even though he threw it late even a mediocre pass gets completed there. Need your best player to execute with the game on the line and unfortunately that didn't happen.

Like I said in the game thread, they had blown up that TE drag as an option on the RPO/roll-out all game, so they knew the only receiver that had a chance of being open was Young deep. Giving a play where the likely option is a deep ball when your QB has shown for 3 years now that he underthrows every deep ball is just not good coaching. Ridder wasn't in the best position to succeed there...and that's what you need to do as a coach. We should've gone 5-wide, played a sticks concept and told Des to run if they were over the top.
So you seem to be me one of the most qualified football posters on here.

Looked like a designed pass or at least RPO - is this on the OC?

Looking forward - Will this type of mistake happen again? Philosophy thing or just clock management mistake that CLF will never allow again (the time not ran off the clock the whole series and not running on 3rd and 2).
 
01-03-2021 11:19 PM
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Post: #69
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-03-2021 11:19 PM)ZCat Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 11:12 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 10:39 AM)Racinejake Wrote:  Rewatching that play Young was wide open and Ridder's throw was just awful. Even though he threw it late even a mediocre pass gets completed there. Need your best player to execute with the game on the line and unfortunately that didn't happen.

Like I said in the game thread, they had blown up that TE drag as an option on the RPO/roll-out all game, so they knew the only receiver that had a chance of being open was Young deep. Giving a play where the likely option is a deep ball when your QB has shown for 3 years now that he underthrows every deep ball is just not good coaching. Ridder wasn't in the best position to succeed there...and that's what you need to do as a coach. We should've gone 5-wide, played a sticks concept and told Des to run if they were over the top.
So you seem to be me one of the most qualified football posters on here.

Looked like a designed pass or at least RPO - is this on the OC?

Looking forward - Will this type of mistake happen again? Philosophy thing or just clock management mistake that CLF will never allow again (the time not ran off the clock the whole series and not running on 3rd and 2).

Pee wee coaches should know that if you have the lead, the ball and the other team is out of time outs...

you DON'T stop the clock FOR them.
 
01-03-2021 11:28 PM
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Bruce Monnin Offline
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Post: #70
RE: 3rd and 2
I figure there are two choices:

1) You do a running play that won't go put of bounds. If you get the first down, you win. If not, the other teams gets is back with a minute left to try and kick a field goal.

2) You gamble on a pass. If completed, you win. If not, the other teams gets is back with a minute and a half left to try and kick a field goal.

What is the better odds? Is the odds of winning increased by enough with the pass play working to make up in the decrease in the odds if it fails? The coaches apparently thought so. I tend to agree, but it seems a close call. I actually predicted that would be the play before they ran it.
 
01-03-2021 11:34 PM
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dsquare Online
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RE: 3rd and 2
(01-03-2021 11:34 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I figure there are two choices:

1) You do a running play that won't go put of bounds. If you get the first down, you win. If not, the other teams gets is back with a minute left to try and kick a field goal.

2) You gamble on a pass. If completed, you win. If not, the other teams gets is back with a minute and a half left to try and kick a field goal.

What is the better odds? Is the odds of winning increased by enough with the pass play working to make up in the decrease in the odds if it fails? The coaches apparently thought so. I tend to agree, but it seems a close call. I actually predicted that would be the play before they ran it.

I think everyone was ok with the call to look for the tight end, but if the second option was to look down field to a much more difficult throw off the line of scrimmage that was the wrong formation to throw from. The kid from Georgia closed very fast and made a nice play, but that pass to get over all the defenders is at best a low percentage throw. The entire defense had rotated that way. They'd probably been better off leaving a tight end or rb on the weak side try to stay at home and throw back across the field and hope the defense didn't notice him. Again not an easy play, but with that formation and everyone on the other side closing it was awful crowded to complete a pass.
 
01-04-2021 12:26 AM
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Post: #72
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-03-2021 11:19 PM)ZCat Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 11:12 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 10:39 AM)Racinejake Wrote:  Rewatching that play Young was wide open and Ridder's throw was just awful. Even though he threw it late even a mediocre pass gets completed there. Need your best player to execute with the game on the line and unfortunately that didn't happen.

Like I said in the game thread, they had blown up that TE drag as an option on the RPO/roll-out all game, so they knew the only receiver that had a chance of being open was Young deep. Giving a play where the likely option is a deep ball when your QB has shown for 3 years now that he underthrows every deep ball is just not good coaching. Ridder wasn't in the best position to succeed there...and that's what you need to do as a coach. We should've gone 5-wide, played a sticks concept and told Des to run if they were over the top.
So you seem to be me one of the most qualified football posters on here.

Looked like a designed pass or at least RPO - is this on the OC?

Looking forward - Will this type of mistake happen again? Philosophy thing or just clock management mistake that CLF will never allow again (the time not ran off the clock the whole series and not running on 3rd and 2).

That was a headset conference call...no way Denbrock makes that alone. My bet is you had Fickell and all of the offensive staff talking during that timeout, mostly with the offensive staff going through their top plays for short yardage. Throughout the year, the extended RPO was the play we always went to, that QB pull/TE drag with an over the top secondary option...but they likely knew that Georgia was going to eliminate the TE option the way that both they and Tulsa had done all game. The problem is they probably didn't hammer it into Des that if the TE wasn't open he needed to just put a foot in the ground and try to get the first in bounds regardless of what MYJ looked like to him.

It isn't really a philosophy thing...thats just our best short yardage play with Doaks out throughout the year, the issue was that it really WASN'T our best short yardage play in that half. They went with their strength and hoped that the leader could pull through, which is what any coach would do, but it just didn't happen. My only thing is that they probably should've removed all pass options after the TE from the equation (our boundary receiver running a deep cross or post to occupy the deep cover against the roll) so there wasn't a chance Des would try to throw it over cutting upfield if the TE was blown up.
 
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2021 09:30 AM by BearcatMan.)
01-04-2021 09:29 AM
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bearcatfan Offline
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RE: 3rd and 2
Since I was there and didn't get a chance to watch the replay over and over and over again until yesterday - If the pass to Young would have been thrown sooner or just a little higher and longer, we'd all be celebrating right now.

I don't think Ridder could have run for it - he was too far from the line of scrimmage and the Georgia defense was in hot pursuit.

I thin I'll be muttering "just two yards" to myself for a long time.
 
01-04-2021 10:56 AM
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RE: 3rd and 2
(01-04-2021 09:29 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 11:19 PM)ZCat Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 11:12 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 10:39 AM)Racinejake Wrote:  Rewatching that play Young was wide open and Ridder's throw was just awful. Even though he threw it late even a mediocre pass gets completed there. Need your best player to execute with the game on the line and unfortunately that didn't happen.

Like I said in the game thread, they had blown up that TE drag as an option on the RPO/roll-out all game, so they knew the only receiver that had a chance of being open was Young deep. Giving a play where the likely option is a deep ball when your QB has shown for 3 years now that he underthrows every deep ball is just not good coaching. Ridder wasn't in the best position to succeed there...and that's what you need to do as a coach. We should've gone 5-wide, played a sticks concept and told Des to run if they were over the top.
So you seem to be me one of the most qualified football posters on here.

Looked like a designed pass or at least RPO - is this on the OC?

Looking forward - Will this type of mistake happen again? Philosophy thing or just clock management mistake that CLF will never allow again (the time not ran off the clock the whole series and not running on 3rd and 2).

That was a headset conference call...no way Denbrock makes that alone. My bet is you had Fickell and all of the offensive staff talking during that timeout, mostly with the offensive staff going through their top plays for short yardage. Throughout the year, the extended RPO was the play we always went to, that QB pull/TE drag with an over the top secondary option...but they likely knew that Georgia was going to eliminate the TE option the way that both they and Tulsa had done all game. The problem is they probably didn't hammer it into Des that if the TE wasn't open he needed to just put a foot in the ground and try to get the first in bounds regardless of what MYJ looked like to him.

It isn't really a philosophy thing...thats just our best short yardage play with Doaks out throughout the year, the issue was that it really WASN'T our best short yardage play in that half. They went with their strength and hoped that the leader could pull through, which is what any coach would do, but it just didn't happen. My only thing is that they probably should've removed all pass options after the TE from the equation (our boundary receiver running a deep cross or post to occupy the deep cover against the roll) so there wasn't a chance Des would try to throw it over cutting upfield if the TE was blown up.

You just have to wonder if the brain trust got so wrapped up in how to get the 2 yds that they didn't have a brain fart and forget the clock issue. We'll probably never know that or if Ridder was not supposed to throw it downfield. It will be Cincinnati sports folklore. LOL. Here's to getting out there and winning next year and forgetting it.
 
01-04-2021 12:59 PM
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Post: #75
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-04-2021 10:56 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  Since I was there and didn't get a chance to watch the replay over and over and over again until yesterday - If the pass to Young would have been thrown sooner or just a little higher and longer, we'd all be celebrating right now.

I don't think Ridder could have run for it - he was too far from the line of scrimmage and the Georgia defense was in hot pursuit.

I thin I'll be muttering "just two yards" to myself for a long time.

Exactly. We can all question the play call but the reality is the play worked. We had a WR open and our QB only needed to make a mediocre throw (not a poor one). Then we'd all be celebrating BDF and the play calling that got us a wide open receiver when the whole world thought we were going to either run or throw to the TE. Sometimes players just need to execute but don't.
 
01-04-2021 01:04 PM
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Post: #76
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-04-2021 12:59 PM)dsquare Wrote:  
(01-04-2021 09:29 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 11:19 PM)ZCat Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 11:12 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 10:39 AM)Racinejake Wrote:  Rewatching that play Young was wide open and Ridder's throw was just awful. Even though he threw it late even a mediocre pass gets completed there. Need your best player to execute with the game on the line and unfortunately that didn't happen.

Like I said in the game thread, they had blown up that TE drag as an option on the RPO/roll-out all game, so they knew the only receiver that had a chance of being open was Young deep. Giving a play where the likely option is a deep ball when your QB has shown for 3 years now that he underthrows every deep ball is just not good coaching. Ridder wasn't in the best position to succeed there...and that's what you need to do as a coach. We should've gone 5-wide, played a sticks concept and told Des to run if they were over the top.
So you seem to be me one of the most qualified football posters on here.

Looked like a designed pass or at least RPO - is this on the OC?

Looking forward - Will this type of mistake happen again? Philosophy thing or just clock management mistake that CLF will never allow again (the time not ran off the clock the whole series and not running on 3rd and 2).

That was a headset conference call...no way Denbrock makes that alone. My bet is you had Fickell and all of the offensive staff talking during that timeout, mostly with the offensive staff going through their top plays for short yardage. Throughout the year, the extended RPO was the play we always went to, that QB pull/TE drag with an over the top secondary option...but they likely knew that Georgia was going to eliminate the TE option the way that both they and Tulsa had done all game. The problem is they probably didn't hammer it into Des that if the TE wasn't open he needed to just put a foot in the ground and try to get the first in bounds regardless of what MYJ looked like to him.

It isn't really a philosophy thing...thats just our best short yardage play with Doaks out throughout the year, the issue was that it really WASN'T our best short yardage play in that half. They went with their strength and hoped that the leader could pull through, which is what any coach would do, but it just didn't happen. My only thing is that they probably should've removed all pass options after the TE from the equation (our boundary receiver running a deep cross or post to occupy the deep cover against the roll) so there wasn't a chance Des would try to throw it over cutting upfield if the TE was blown up.

You just have to wonder if the brain trust got so wrapped up in how to get the 2 yds that they didn't have a brain fart and forget the clock issue. We'll probably never know that or if Ridder was not supposed to throw it downfield. It will be Cincinnati sports folklore. LOL. Here's to getting out there and winning next year and forgetting it.

That can absolutely happen...you get a whole lot of tunnel vision when you're in those sorts of conversations on the sidelines.
 
01-04-2021 01:06 PM
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Post: #77
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-04-2021 09:29 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 11:19 PM)ZCat Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 11:12 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 10:39 AM)Racinejake Wrote:  Rewatching that play Young was wide open and Ridder's throw was just awful. Even though he threw it late even a mediocre pass gets completed there. Need your best player to execute with the game on the line and unfortunately that didn't happen.

Like I said in the game thread, they had blown up that TE drag as an option on the RPO/roll-out all game, so they knew the only receiver that had a chance of being open was Young deep. Giving a play where the likely option is a deep ball when your QB has shown for 3 years now that he underthrows every deep ball is just not good coaching. Ridder wasn't in the best position to succeed there...and that's what you need to do as a coach. We should've gone 5-wide, played a sticks concept and told Des to run if they were over the top.
So you seem to be me one of the most qualified football posters on here.

Looked like a designed pass or at least RPO - is this on the OC?

Looking forward - Will this type of mistake happen again? Philosophy thing or just clock management mistake that CLF will never allow again (the time not ran off the clock the whole series and not running on 3rd and 2).

That was a headset conference call...no way Denbrock makes that alone. My bet is you had Fickell and all of the offensive staff talking during that timeout, mostly with the offensive staff going through their top plays for short yardage. Throughout the year, the extended RPO was the play we always went to, that QB pull/TE drag with an over the top secondary option...but they likely knew that Georgia was going to eliminate the TE option the way that both they and Tulsa had done all game. The problem is they probably didn't hammer it into Des that if the TE wasn't open he needed to just put a foot in the ground and try to get the first in bounds regardless of what MYJ looked like to him.

It isn't really a philosophy thing...thats just our best short yardage play with Doaks out throughout the year, the issue was that it really WASN'T our best short yardage play in that half. They went with their strength and hoped that the leader could pull through, which is what any coach would do, but it just didn't happen. My only thing is that they probably should've removed all pass options after the TE from the equation (our boundary receiver running a deep cross or post to occupy the deep cover against the roll) so there wasn't a chance Des would try to throw it over cutting upfield if the TE was blown up.
Thanks BearcatMan and others!
 
01-04-2021 11:22 PM
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Post: #78
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-01-2021 05:02 PM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  
(01-01-2021 04:54 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  
(01-01-2021 04:40 PM)skyblade Wrote:  
(01-01-2021 04:31 PM)jarr Wrote:  
(01-01-2021 04:28 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  Clock wasn't running. UGA had taken their timeouts on 1st and 2nd down:

1st & 10 at CIN 32
(1:48 - 4th) Jerome Ford run for a loss of 1 yard to the Cincy 31
(1:47 - 4th) Timeout GEORGIA, clock 01:47
2nd & 11 at CIN 31
(1:43 - 4th) Desmond Ridder pass complete to Bruno Labelle for 9 yds to the Cincy 40
(1:41 - 4th) Timeout GEORGIA, clock 01:41
(1:41 - 4th) Timeout CINCINNATI, clock 01:41
3rd & 2 at CIN 40
(1:34 - 4th) Desmond Ridder pass incomplete to Michael Young Jr.
(1:34 - 4th) Timeout CINCINNATI, clock 01:34

Ok I could have swore it was, but either way the 3rd down play was idiotic

I believe you are correct, but it was 1st and 2nd down before we picked up our first first down of the drive. Even the announcers commented on Ridder snapping it too early.

Well if he doesn't snap it early Metz will false start, so what's the big deal???

Thinking that too!

Same here.
 
01-05-2021 03:55 PM
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Cataclysmo Offline
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RE: 3rd and 2
(01-04-2021 01:04 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  
(01-04-2021 10:56 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  Since I was there and didn't get a chance to watch the replay over and over and over again until yesterday - If the pass to Young would have been thrown sooner or just a little higher and longer, we'd all be celebrating right now.

I don't think Ridder could have run for it - he was too far from the line of scrimmage and the Georgia defense was in hot pursuit.

I thin I'll be muttering "just two yards" to myself for a long time.

Exactly. We can all question the play call but the reality is the play worked. We had a WR open and our QB only needed to make a mediocre throw (not a poor one). Then we'd all be celebrating BDF and the play calling that got us a wide open receiver when the whole world thought we were going to either run or throw to the TE. Sometimes players just need to execute but don't.
This is what I keep going back to. Up until Des threw, the coaching staff basically left the game at this:

+ Complete a wide open deep ball and win
- throw an incompletion, and let the defense go out and win it.

I know it's tempting to think that a third option (run it with Des) could've been introduced, and that's probably what shouldve happened, but the results on the field left us with an amazing opportunity for a win. Against the best D in the country, I think that's enough.


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01-05-2021 08:30 PM
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