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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #41
RE: 3rd and 2
To me, an ignorant fan, the 3rd and 2 call looked like a mistake. But it's definitely not a pattern. Fickell has shown excellent skill in the past at closing out games and having good clock management. So I think he knows what he's doing better than me, and I'm going to assume that he made the right call.

I'm not going to second guess individual play calls when the whole rest of the season when so well.
 
01-01-2021 10:04 PM
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Cat-Man Offline
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Post: #42
RE: 3rd and 2
This from the Enquirer:

Earlier in the drive, the Bearcats snapped the ball twice with more than 10 seconds left on a running play clock. UC could have killed 22 more seconds on the game clock by the time they got a first down on the Bearcats’ 32-yard line with 1:47 left.

Even though what happened next didn’t work out, Fickell stood by the play-calling.

“We're going to play to win,” Fickell said. “We play to win. And you know, we do what we do… We're not going to go back wondering and trying to play the wishing and wanting game. We're going to be aggressive.”

On second and 11, Ridder completed an 8-yard pass to tight end Bruno Labelle. That set up third and 2 from the 40-yard line with 1:41 left, and the Bearcats designed a short passing play to star tight end Josh Whyle, who had already made a diving touchdown catch in the first half.

After a Georgia defensive back covered Whyle, Ridder saw senior wide receiver Michael Young Jr. open down the field, and Ridder tried to seal the win with a deep pass.

“The ball just didn't get (there),” Ridder said. “The ball hung up in the air for what felt like an eternity. But if that ball would have gotten up and down quicker, it would have been a completion.”


https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/...056365001/
 
01-01-2021 10:14 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: 3rd and 2
Not an indictment on Fick or on the season to question a game changing play/clock management in the biggest game since the Kelly-less Sugar Bowl. No coach is perfect. For the record, I love Big Fick and that doesn't change with the loss.

 
01-01-2021 11:08 PM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #44
RE: 3rd and 2
I'm a big proponent of being aggressive in late game situations when you can win the game with 1 first down. UC was stuffed on first down and I told the people I was watching the game with that UC should play action on 2nd down. Don't want to just run into the line 3 times. UC did play action and completed a pass, getting the third and manageable. It was a smart call.

But that put them in 3rd and short and Georgia was out of timeouts. If it were 3rd and 5 or more I'd have been fine trying to throw for it and not just run the clock down. If Georgia had a timeout, I'd have absolutely been fine throwing it. But given that a run was 40 seconds coming off the clock AND you could reasonably still get the first down by running, I hated the pass call in that situation. I love being aggressive. But in that situation the benefit didn't outweigh the risk. The downside of a run was 40 seconds and no first down. How much better were the odds of getting the first down via pass vs. via run? Generously 20%? That's very generous and assumes Georgia really sells out. It was just a situation you didn't need to get cute. The second down risk of putting it in the air made sense. Once you're in third and short and they have no timeouts it just doesn't.
 
01-01-2021 11:15 PM
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vabearcat Offline
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Post: #45
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-01-2021 10:04 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  To me, an ignorant fan, the 3rd and 2 call looked like a mistake. But it's definitely not a pattern. Fickell has shown excellent skill in the past at closing out games and having good clock management. So I think he knows what he's doing better than me, and I'm going to assume that he made the right call.

I'm not going to second guess individual play calls when the whole rest of the season when so well.

You obviously didn't watch the UC game at UCF, where we tried not to score, and then one of our OL guys pushed our RB toward the goal line, causing him to fumble the ball on the 1-inch line, giving UCF time to come down the field and potentially win the game. That refusal to score almost cost UC that game and was yet another example of horrible end-of-game clock management.
 
01-01-2021 11:19 PM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #46
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-01-2021 11:19 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  
(01-01-2021 10:04 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  To me, an ignorant fan, the 3rd and 2 call looked like a mistake. But it's definitely not a pattern. Fickell has shown excellent skill in the past at closing out games and having good clock management. So I think he knows what he's doing better than me, and I'm going to assume that he made the right call.

I'm not going to second guess individual play calls when the whole rest of the season when so well.

You obviously didn't watch the UC game at UCF, where we tried not to score, and then one of our OL guys pushed our RB toward the goal line, causing him to fumble the ball on the 1-inch line, giving UCF time to come down the field and potentially win the game. That refusal to score almost cost UC that game and was yet another example of horrible end-of-game clock management.

That's not what actually happened.
 
01-01-2021 11:22 PM
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Billy_Bearcat Offline
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Post: #47
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-01-2021 11:22 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(01-01-2021 11:19 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  
(01-01-2021 10:04 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  To me, an ignorant fan, the 3rd and 2 call looked like a mistake. But it's definitely not a pattern. Fickell has shown excellent skill in the past at closing out games and having good clock management. So I think he knows what he's doing better than me, and I'm going to assume that he made the right call.

I'm not going to second guess individual play calls when the whole rest of the season when so well.

You obviously didn't watch the UC game at UCF, where we tried not to score, and then one of our OL guys pushed our RB toward the goal line, causing him to fumble the ball on the 1-inch line, giving UCF time to come down the field and potentially win the game. That refusal to score almost cost UC that game and was yet another example of horrible end-of-game clock management.

That's not what actually happened.

03-lmfao

He just mind melded the end of the UC/UCF game with the end of the Coastal Carolina/Liberty game. That’s some good sh!t he’s smoking over there.
 
01-01-2021 11:27 PM
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bcat1997 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: 3rd and 2
They got down to our 40 yard line with 40 secs+ left. Would have been the same result.
 
01-01-2021 11:28 PM
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bearcatmark Offline
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Post: #49
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-01-2021 11:28 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  They got down to our 40 yard line with 40 secs+ left. Would have been the same result.

I don't think it's a given UC wins if they just run. But they also could have picked up a first down and there would have been way more time pressure on Georgia.
 
01-01-2021 11:30 PM
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Lurkercat Offline
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Post: #50
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-01-2021 11:28 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  They got down to our 40 yard line with 40 secs+ left. Would have been the same result.

This is what happens when coaches go drop 8 at the end to preserve their lead. Trying not to lose vs trying to win. Hate seeing a team go down the field in 30 seconds by throwing 10 yard outs. But hey, you didn't give up the deep ball, right?
 
01-01-2021 11:31 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #51
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-01-2021 11:31 PM)Lurkercat Wrote:  
(01-01-2021 11:28 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  They got down to our 40 yard line with 40 secs+ left. Would have been the same result.

This is what happens when coaches go drop 8 at the end to preserve their lead. Trying not to lose vs trying to win. Hate seeing a team go down the field in 30 seconds by throwing 10 yard outs. But hey, you didn't give up the deep ball, right?

Sometimes, yes.

But UC didn't drop 8 every time. We blitzed at least one play that I remember for sure. I thought several other times we rushed 4.

Also, there's an argument that dropping 8 means each play takes longer. Rushing 6 and playing man guarantees that the play takes 4 or fewer seconds. Dropping 8 could easily drag an incomplete pass out to 12 seconds or more.
 
01-01-2021 11:53 PM
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Lurkercat Offline
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Post: #52
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-01-2021 11:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(01-01-2021 11:31 PM)Lurkercat Wrote:  
(01-01-2021 11:28 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  They got down to our 40 yard line with 40 secs+ left. Would have been the same result.

This is what happens when coaches go drop 8 at the end to preserve their lead. Trying not to lose vs trying to win. Hate seeing a team go down the field in 30 seconds by throwing 10 yard outs. But hey, you didn't give up the deep ball, right?

Sometimes, yes.

But UC didn't drop 8 every time. We blitzed at least one play that I remember for sure. I thought several other times we rushed 4.

Also, there's an argument that dropping 8 means each play takes longer. Rushing 6 and playing man guarantees that the play takes 4 or fewer seconds. Dropping 8 could easily drag an incomplete pass out to 12 seconds or more.

Yeah you're probably right. Frustration post by me looking to blame something for that inexplicable loss lol. Really wish we could've won one of these big bowls so there isn't so much pressure. Hopefully we're back next year but we all know it could be 10 years before we make it back to one. It's hard as a g5 to get that ny6 because you have to have a near perfect season
 
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2021 12:02 AM by Lurkercat.)
01-02-2021 12:02 AM
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bcat1997 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-01-2021 11:30 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(01-01-2021 11:28 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  They got down to our 40 yard line with 40 secs+ left. Would have been the same result.

I don't think it's a given UC wins if they just run. But they also could have picked up a first down and there would have been way more time pressure on Georgia.

Again, I'm in the minority, just think the play call was the right one. Gave Ridder the option to run or pass if it was there. It was there, he just didn't execute.
 
01-02-2021 12:32 AM
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Dannyboy Offline
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Post: #54
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-01-2021 10:14 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  This from the Enquirer:

Earlier in the drive, the Bearcats snapped the ball twice with more than 10 seconds left on a running play clock. UC could have killed 22 more seconds on the game clock by the time they got a first down on the Bearcats’ 32-yard line with 1:47 left.

Even though what happened next didn’t work out, Fickell stood by the play-calling.

“We're going to play to win,” Fickell said. “We play to win. And you know, we do what we do… We're not going to go back wondering and trying to play the wishing and wanting game. We're going to be aggressive.”

On second and 11, Ridder completed an 8-yard pass to tight end Bruno Labelle. That set up third and 2 from the 40-yard line with 1:41 left, and the Bearcats designed a short passing play to star tight end Josh Whyle, who had already made a diving touchdown catch in the first half.

After a Georgia defensive back covered Whyle, Ridder saw senior wide receiver Michael Young Jr. open down the field, and Ridder tried to seal the win with a deep pass.

“The ball just didn't get (there),” Ridder said. “The ball hung up in the air for what felt like an eternity. But if that ball would have gotten up and down quicker, it would have been a completion.”


https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/...056365001/

There were several options on that play: short pass, QB run, etc. GA left the deep ball wide open so he threw it. Unfortunately it wasn’t a good throw. That’s life. Play to win. Take what the defense gives you. That’s the correct move.
 
01-02-2021 06:09 AM
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Post: #55
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-02-2021 06:09 AM)Dannyboy Wrote:  
(01-01-2021 10:14 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  This from the Enquirer:

Earlier in the drive, the Bearcats snapped the ball twice with more than 10 seconds left on a running play clock. UC could have killed 22 more seconds on the game clock by the time they got a first down on the Bearcats’ 32-yard line with 1:47 left.

Even though what happened next didn’t work out, Fickell stood by the play-calling.

“We're going to play to win,” Fickell said. “We play to win. And you know, we do what we do… We're not going to go back wondering and trying to play the wishing and wanting game. We're going to be aggressive.”

On second and 11, Ridder completed an 8-yard pass to tight end Bruno Labelle. That set up third and 2 from the 40-yard line with 1:41 left, and the Bearcats designed a short passing play to star tight end Josh Whyle, who had already made a diving touchdown catch in the first half.

After a Georgia defensive back covered Whyle, Ridder saw senior wide receiver Michael Young Jr. open down the field, and Ridder tried to seal the win with a deep pass.

“The ball just didn't get (there),” Ridder said. “The ball hung up in the air for what felt like an eternity. But if that ball would have gotten up and down quicker, it would have been a completion.”


https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/...056365001/

There were several options on that play: short pass, QB run, etc. GA left the deep ball wide open so he threw it. Unfortunately it wasn’t a good throw. That’s life. Play to win. Take what the defense gives you. That’s the correct move.

If Ridder completes the pass, he's a genius and we're praising Big Fick.
 
01-02-2021 07:01 AM
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Bear Catlett Offline
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Post: #56
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-01-2021 11:28 PM)bcat1997 Wrote:  They got down to our 40 yard line with 40 secs+ left. Would have been the same result.

But they would have had to approach the situation a lot different than what they did. They would have been easier to defend.

More time gives you more options.
 
01-02-2021 07:41 AM
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Racinejake Offline
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Post: #57
RE: 3rd and 2
Rewatching that play Young was wide open and Ridder's throw was just awful. Even though he threw it late even a mediocre pass gets completed there. Need your best player to execute with the game on the line and unfortunately that didn't happen.
 
01-02-2021 10:39 AM
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Cataclysmo Offline
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Post: #58
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-02-2021 10:39 AM)Racinejake Wrote:  Rewatching that play Young was wide open and Ridder's throw was just awful. Even though he threw it late even a mediocre pass gets completed there. Need your best player to execute with the game on the line and unfortunately that didn't happen.
Yeah this is where I'm at. The clock management will gnaw at us but they played aggressive and had a wife open throw to win the game that Des missed on. If he connects for 6 there Fick is a genius.

But yeah, I think they got a little ahead of themselves and shouldve trusted the play clock game. But damn man, when you have a 3rd and 2 that automatically wins the game, I don't have a problem with a play call that completely exploits what Georgia sold out to do (stop the run).

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01-02-2021 10:58 AM
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BearcatMan Offline
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Post: #59
RE: 3rd and 2
(01-02-2021 10:39 AM)Racinejake Wrote:  Rewatching that play Young was wide open and Ridder's throw was just awful. Even though he threw it late even a mediocre pass gets completed there. Need your best player to execute with the game on the line and unfortunately that didn't happen.

Like I said in the game thread, they had blown up that TE drag as an option on the RPO/roll-out all game, so they knew the only receiver that had a chance of being open was Young deep. Giving a play where the likely option is a deep ball when your QB has shown for 3 years now that he underthrows every deep ball is just not good coaching. Ridder wasn't in the best position to succeed there...and that's what you need to do as a coach. We should've gone 5-wide, played a sticks concept and told Des to run if they were over the top.
 
01-02-2021 11:12 AM
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Post: #60
RE: 3rd and 2
I was at the game and i said to the guy in front of me that tight end screen where Ridder has the option to run was what they would do so the Enquirer article i saw this am kind of surprised me as i guess the play didn't develop real well. It was hard to tell watching it live that that was the call. That said, i think they obviously expected it. The one thing i said all year long is we really lacked any kind of underneath passing attack to keep teams honest. The slant for short yardage, and throwing to guys out of the backfield who draw linebacker coverage seemed to be mia. Honestly if i had known before i walked into the stadium that Gardner, Wiggins and Doaks all would not play i would have expected we lose by 2 td's down there. That's why it was really a kick in the gut to lose on a 53 yd field goal after we botched both our first half fg attempt, and also the non existent offense in the second half except for Ford's run. Obviously both Metz's and Sander's 6 procedure penalties hurt them, but once Hudson was out the offense just spit the bit. He was a big boost in the BC game last year so maybe he is that important of a cog in the overall scheme. Hope he's back, and we don't open against someone good as i guess he'll miss the first half of the first game due to the targeting call? That was a killer. Nothing against Cole Smith as i believe the fg try was blocked, but how i long for a steady kicking game. Great season, and the curse of Cincy sports continues.
 
01-02-2021 12:32 PM
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