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What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #61
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-04-2019 03:25 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 02:36 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 12:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Ive always thought the way to make this work was 2 fold. One---you play in the Spring and limit your costs. Two---and this is the key---you hold a draft and you give each team a geographic territory surrounding the team where 70% of their players must have played college within that area. So, this way, you create a built-in audience of hard core college fans who are interested in watching players from area schools who were stars in college---but didnt fit the NFL. That should be a great help for attendance. I think a spring football league based on that general concept could be successful as long as costs are kept under control.

Problem with territorial draft is some places are sparse. There are four FBS schools within a 300 mile radius of Salt Lake City. Utah, Utah State, BYU and Boise State and Boise State just barely makes it. You end up having to fudge the territory for competitive balance.

Yeah, but who really cares? If you’re a Boise fan, are you going to drive you SLC to see an ex-Bronco play? You would have to be the ultimate hardcore fan to do something like it, especially more than once. In the end, it doesn’t really matter where the players come from.

Im actually thinking more about large cities where grads from many different schools live. Lets say a franchise was in Houston. There are certainly UH, UT, Aggie, Tech, LSU, N Texas, UTSA, Rice, Baylor, TCU, SMU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, and LaTech fans all living in Houston in significant numbers. They might be interested in watching their old stars from recent teams play---especially if the tickets are priced right. I agree with you that fans of these "home territory" universities living in Austin or Dallas, would not be buying tickets to watch the Hosuton based team. They would however probably be willing to catch games on TV. Thats no different from the NFL where few people from Dallas and San Antonio are going to be Houston Texans season ticket holders.

My point is, a spring football league isnt going to have the top talent and it isnt going to draw like the NFL. It will probably be lucky to draw like MLS Soccer. What the "regional" concept would give them a nice built-in fan base for a start up league over and above what they get by just having a pro team in the city with "Houston" printed on the jersey. The concept would probably work in most major cities.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2019 05:19 PM by Attackcoog.)
02-04-2019 05:17 PM
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Post: #62
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-04-2019 05:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 02:36 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 12:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Ive always thought the way to make this work was 2 fold. One---you play in the Spring and limit your costs. Two---and this is the key---you hold a draft and you give each team a geographic territory surrounding the team where 70% of their players must have played college within that area. So, this way, you create a built-in audience of hard core college fans who are interested in watching players from area schools who were stars in college---but didnt fit the NFL. That should be a great help for attendance. I think a spring football league based on that general concept could be successful as long as costs are kept under control.

Problem with territorial draft is some places are sparse. There are four FBS schools within a 300 mile radius of Salt Lake City. Utah, Utah State, BYU and Boise State and Boise State just barely makes it. You end up having to fudge the territory for competitive balance.

Agreed. However, populations also vary. So, for instance, in the west, where the population is more sparse, you're going to have fewer teams. Additionally, some teams can have larger territories to offset the lower population density. You can also play with the percentage of the roster that must be "within team territory" in order to make sure teams can field competitive rosters. I used 70%---but maybe 50% is more appropriate. The point is to ground the teams to their home region with the talent they select. You can adjust the specifics to make the league work.

CFL has assigned territory to each team and they can sign one player from their territory prior to the draft.

The thing about spring football is the rookies you can sign aren't going to be worth much. Few players who think they can get drafted in the eight rounds or get a UDFA deal are going to choose to not hang around and wait for the NFL draft which is about a week and a half after the end of the AAF regular season.

The typical AAF "rookie" is going to be the guy who was a late rounder or UDFA who didn't make it to opening day.

The AAF did their draft during the regular football season where they could see who the guys were who were late cuts and guys on taxi squads. AAF pay is a bit less than taxi squad pay if you stay on for the entire season.
02-04-2019 05:31 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #63
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-04-2019 10:50 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 12:02 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(02-03-2019 03:33 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Call me crazy but I really think there is a market for spring league football in the off season in football crazy regions of the country, particularly if they feature local talent.

Local talent and you need NFL team affiliation for those fan bases to tune in to certain teams.

If you go to an affiliate system, you have to think much smaller in terms of stadiums. You need 15,000 to 25,000 seat stadiums because that's roughly the ratio you see in capacity between top level leagues and affiliates.

The challenge of spring football is the markets you want to be in to attract the what the heck I'll give the local team a tune-in or maybe go out to see people in notable numbers have a dearth of facilities of appropriate size.

That means you need cheap ticket prices to try to get more of the capacity used.

Affiliation drove fans in Little Rock for baseball for decades. When the Cardinals pulled out and the Travs affiliated with west coast teams it took some time to change the reason to come see a game in the mind of central Arkansas fans.

The problem for affiliation in spring football is based on past support levels for spring football, it is likely to skew heavily to the south. That's wonderful if you are affiliated with the Cowboys or Saints or Falcons or Dolphins, not so wonderful when you are affiliated with the Browns, Lions, Bills.

It is one thing for Memphis to be prepared to sell their QB to Bills, it is an entirely different thing to be the Bills affiliate.

If an NFL farm league playing in the spring were to ever evolve I think you end up with two types of teams:

Affiliates that play in the home market and stadium as their Southern or domed stadium parent club.

Affiliates that play in midsize southern markets but are tied to northern NFL teams like Cleveland, Buffalo, etc.
02-04-2019 05:53 PM
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Post: #64
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-04-2019 05:31 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 05:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 02:36 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 12:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Ive always thought the way to make this work was 2 fold. One---you play in the Spring and limit your costs. Two---and this is the key---you hold a draft and you give each team a geographic territory surrounding the team where 70% of their players must have played college within that area. So, this way, you create a built-in audience of hard core college fans who are interested in watching players from area schools who were stars in college---but didnt fit the NFL. That should be a great help for attendance. I think a spring football league based on that general concept could be successful as long as costs are kept under control.

Problem with territorial draft is some places are sparse. There are four FBS schools within a 300 mile radius of Salt Lake City. Utah, Utah State, BYU and Boise State and Boise State just barely makes it. You end up having to fudge the territory for competitive balance.

Agreed. However, populations also vary. So, for instance, in the west, where the population is more sparse, you're going to have fewer teams. Additionally, some teams can have larger territories to offset the lower population density. You can also play with the percentage of the roster that must be "within team territory" in order to make sure teams can field competitive rosters. I used 70%---but maybe 50% is more appropriate. The point is to ground the teams to their home region with the talent they select. You can adjust the specifics to make the league work.

CFL has assigned territory to each team and they can sign one player from their territory prior to the draft.

The thing about spring football is the rookies you can sign aren't going to be worth much. Few players who think they can get drafted in the eight rounds or get a UDFA deal are going to choose to not hang around and wait for the NFL draft which is about a week and a half after the end of the AAF regular season.

The typical AAF "rookie" is going to be the guy who was a late rounder or UDFA who didn't make it to opening day.

The AAF did their draft during the regular football season where they could see who the guys were who were late cuts and guys on taxi squads. AAF pay is a bit less than taxi squad pay if you stay on for the entire season.

The pay is less as the AAF salaries for this season are all the same, $75,000 for this season, $85,000 for season two and $100,000 for season three. NFL practice squad pays $7,600/week. AAF will also have some sort of bonus system based on social media.

AAF also pay for housing during the season, so that major cost itself in addition to health insurance, Worker's Comp insurance and education stipends.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2019 07:12 PM by Renandpat.)
02-04-2019 07:06 PM
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Post: #65
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
From the CA article previously linked, it sounds like bonuses are paid based on betting volume.

Quote:“The Alliance will do some special things in terms of on-field competition,” Irby said. “Our digital overlay on top of that will then allow us to introduce a different way to consume the game to fans. The vision is there. There’s a long-term play.

“Don’t mistake this, at the end of the day, we are a tech company running a football league. It’s not just about rolling out a football and saying, ‘Go play.’ We will have that initially, but with digital and gaming and everything we’re doing on the back end, there’s a longer methodology at play here.”

The players that make up the AAF are signed to 3-year, non-guaranteed deals worth $250,000, with the opportunity for bonuses based on the amount of action they receive via prop bets. For instance, a quarterback or running back will in all likelihood be subject to more bets than an offensive lineman, which will result in more money for them.

AAF contracts will include state-of-the-industry health insurance and education stipends for any player who completes a year in the league.
02-04-2019 09:51 PM
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Post: #66
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-04-2019 07:06 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 05:31 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 05:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 02:36 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 12:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Ive always thought the way to make this work was 2 fold. One---you play in the Spring and limit your costs. Two---and this is the key---you hold a draft and you give each team a geographic territory surrounding the team where 70% of their players must have played college within that area. So, this way, you create a built-in audience of hard core college fans who are interested in watching players from area schools who were stars in college---but didnt fit the NFL. That should be a great help for attendance. I think a spring football league based on that general concept could be successful as long as costs are kept under control.

Problem with territorial draft is some places are sparse. There are four FBS schools within a 300 mile radius of Salt Lake City. Utah, Utah State, BYU and Boise State and Boise State just barely makes it. You end up having to fudge the territory for competitive balance.

Agreed. However, populations also vary. So, for instance, in the west, where the population is more sparse, you're going to have fewer teams. Additionally, some teams can have larger territories to offset the lower population density. You can also play with the percentage of the roster that must be "within team territory" in order to make sure teams can field competitive rosters. I used 70%---but maybe 50% is more appropriate. The point is to ground the teams to their home region with the talent they select. You can adjust the specifics to make the league work.

CFL has assigned territory to each team and they can sign one player from their territory prior to the draft.

The thing about spring football is the rookies you can sign aren't going to be worth much. Few players who think they can get drafted in the eight rounds or get a UDFA deal are going to choose to not hang around and wait for the NFL draft which is about a week and a half after the end of the AAF regular season.

The typical AAF "rookie" is going to be the guy who was a late rounder or UDFA who didn't make it to opening day.

The AAF did their draft during the regular football season where they could see who the guys were who were late cuts and guys on taxi squads. AAF pay is a bit less than taxi squad pay if you stay on for the entire season.

The pay is less as the AAF salaries for this season are all the same, $75,000 for this season, $85,000 for season two and $100,000 for season three. NFL practice squad pays $7,600/week. AAF will also have some sort of bonus system based on social media.

AAF also pay for housing during the season, so that major cost itself in addition to health insurance, Worker's Comp insurance and education stipends.

Thing is a lot of taxi squad guys don't get 10 weeks with the team. Some bounce in and out. They can make more in AAF
02-05-2019 11:59 AM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #67
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-04-2019 05:31 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 05:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 02:36 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 12:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Ive always thought the way to make this work was 2 fold. One---you play in the Spring and limit your costs. Two---and this is the key---you hold a draft and you give each team a geographic territory surrounding the team where 70% of their players must have played college within that area. So, this way, you create a built-in audience of hard core college fans who are interested in watching players from area schools who were stars in college---but didnt fit the NFL. That should be a great help for attendance. I think a spring football league based on that general concept could be successful as long as costs are kept under control.

Problem with territorial draft is some places are sparse. There are four FBS schools within a 300 mile radius of Salt Lake City. Utah, Utah State, BYU and Boise State and Boise State just barely makes it. You end up having to fudge the territory for competitive balance.

Agreed. However, populations also vary. So, for instance, in the west, where the population is more sparse, you're going to have fewer teams. Additionally, some teams can have larger territories to offset the lower population density. You can also play with the percentage of the roster that must be "within team territory" in order to make sure teams can field competitive rosters. I used 70%---but maybe 50% is more appropriate. The point is to ground the teams to their home region with the talent they select. You can adjust the specifics to make the league work.

CFL has assigned territory to each team and they can sign one player from their territory prior to the draft.

The thing about spring football is the rookies you can sign aren't going to be worth much. Few players who think they can get drafted in the eight rounds or get a UDFA deal are going to choose to not hang around and wait for the NFL draft which is about a week and a half after the end of the AAF regular season.

The typical AAF "rookie" is going to be the guy who was a late rounder or UDFA who didn't make it to opening day.

The AAF did their draft during the regular football season where they could see who the guys were who were late cuts and guys on taxi squads. AAF pay is a bit less than taxi squad pay if you stay on for the entire season.

Hadnt thought much about the draft timing--but I think your probably right with regard to when it would logically have to be held. So, Im guessing the initial expansion draft for all the teams would have to occur in the same time frame a year prior to the leagues first season?
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2019 12:18 PM by Attackcoog.)
02-05-2019 12:16 PM
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Post: #68
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-05-2019 12:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 05:31 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 05:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 02:36 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2019 12:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Ive always thought the way to make this work was 2 fold. One---you play in the Spring and limit your costs. Two---and this is the key---you hold a draft and you give each team a geographic territory surrounding the team where 70% of their players must have played college within that area. So, this way, you create a built-in audience of hard core college fans who are interested in watching players from area schools who were stars in college---but didnt fit the NFL. That should be a great help for attendance. I think a spring football league based on that general concept could be successful as long as costs are kept under control.

Problem with territorial draft is some places are sparse. There are four FBS schools within a 300 mile radius of Salt Lake City. Utah, Utah State, BYU and Boise State and Boise State just barely makes it. You end up having to fudge the territory for competitive balance.

Agreed. However, populations also vary. So, for instance, in the west, where the population is more sparse, you're going to have fewer teams. Additionally, some teams can have larger territories to offset the lower population density. You can also play with the percentage of the roster that must be "within team territory" in order to make sure teams can field competitive rosters. I used 70%---but maybe 50% is more appropriate. The point is to ground the teams to their home region with the talent they select. You can adjust the specifics to make the league work.

CFL has assigned territory to each team and they can sign one player from their territory prior to the draft.

The thing about spring football is the rookies you can sign aren't going to be worth much. Few players who think they can get drafted in the eight rounds or get a UDFA deal are going to choose to not hang around and wait for the NFL draft which is about a week and a half after the end of the AAF regular season.

The typical AAF "rookie" is going to be the guy who was a late rounder or UDFA who didn't make it to opening day.

The AAF did their draft during the regular football season where they could see who the guys were who were late cuts and guys on taxi squads. AAF pay is a bit less than taxi squad pay if you stay on for the entire season.

Hadnt thought much about the draft timing--but I think your probably right with regard to when it would logically have to be held. So, Im guessing the initial expansion draft for all the teams would have to occur in the same time frame a year prior to the leagues first season?

Yeah AAF did their QB draft in November. Not sure when they did the allocation of other players.
02-05-2019 01:06 PM
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johnbragg Online
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Post: #69
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-05-2019 11:59 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Thing is a lot of taxi squad guys don't get 10 weeks with the team. Some bounce in and out. They can make more in AAF

I'd expect guys to do both. Practice squad contracts expire at the end of the season, so wouldn't you want 10 game checks, and 10 games for scouts to see what you can do against post-college competition?

If the AAF is serious about their 3 year contracts, I guess not, but if I started a spring league, I'd be targeting the 300 guys on practice squads, plus graduating seniors who don't project in the first few rounds.
02-05-2019 06:53 PM
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Post: #70
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
Here is my Alliance with NFL affiliations. I moved Arizona to St. Louis, Memphis to Columbus and Atlanta to Hartford.

West Division
Salt Lake - Arizona, Denver, Minnesota, Seattle
San Antonio - Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Tennessee
San Diego - Los Angeles, Los Angeles, Oakland, San Francisco
St. Louis - Chicago, Green Bay, Indianapolis, Kansas City

East Division
Birmingham - Atlanta, Baltimore, Carolina, Washington
Columbus - Cincinnati, Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh
Hartford - Buffalo, New England, New York, New York
Orlando - Jacksonville, Miami, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay
02-05-2019 10:58 PM
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Post: #71
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-05-2019 06:53 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-05-2019 11:59 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Thing is a lot of taxi squad guys don't get 10 weeks with the team. Some bounce in and out. They can make more in AAF

I'd expect guys to do both. Practice squad contracts expire at the end of the season, so wouldn't you want 10 game checks, and 10 games for scouts to see what you can do against post-college competition?

If the AAF is serious about their 3 year contracts, I guess not, but if I started a spring league, I'd be targeting the 300 guys on practice squads, plus graduating seniors who don't project in the first few rounds.

NFL teams sign many (most) of the practice squad players to futures contracts. I don't know how binding they are, but I would expect it excludes them from playing with another team once signed.
02-06-2019 02:58 AM
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Post: #72
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
The AAF outdrew the NBA last night with its opening games. It's 2.1 overnight rating was just behind Duke/Virginia (2.3) and above the NBA (2.0). Pretty impressive.
02-10-2019 02:49 PM
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Post: #73
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-10-2019 02:49 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The AAF outdrew the NBA last night with its opening games. It's 2.1 overnight rating was just behind Duke/Virginia (2.3) and above the NBA (2.0). Pretty impressive.

Novelty.

True value will be around week 5 and 6
02-10-2019 03:21 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #74
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-10-2019 03:21 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(02-10-2019 02:49 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The AAF outdrew the NBA last night with its opening games. It's 2.1 overnight rating was just behind Duke/Virginia (2.3) and above the NBA (2.0). Pretty impressive.

Novelty.

True value will be around week 5 and 6

It's a nice start but you're right, they'll need to show they can sustain some numbers. March Madness was a low point for the XFL. It'll be interesting to see how they do those weeks.
02-10-2019 03:35 PM
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Post: #75
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-02-2019 02:20 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(02-02-2019 01:04 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Look at San Diego's season ticket prices. $75 for 5 games to start.

https://aaf.com/san-diego-fleet/tickets#season-tickets

Who's really going to spend big bucks on tickets for this league? Ridiculous they don't start at $10 and try to appeal to families.

$75 for 5 games is $15 per ticket. $15 per game for season ticket price. $20 for per game. That's not out of line for minor league sports.
I pay more than 15 bucks to watch AA baseball in Biloxi, MS. Price is more than reasonable. $5.00 beers and it's a good deal.
02-10-2019 03:51 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #76
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
What impressed me was how spirited the crowds were last night. They have no real connection yet, so I thought it would be quiet. Is was not quiet. As they get to know the team better over the next few weeks, it should get even louder. I found fan participation quite good.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2019 03:55 PM by USAFMEDIC.)
02-10-2019 03:54 PM
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Post: #77
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
Solid product last night. It felt like watching a NFL preseason game. Got a future especially if the NFL decides to align with it.
02-10-2019 04:18 PM
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Post: #78
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
Decent product. Uniforms were mediocre.
02-10-2019 05:02 PM
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Post: #79
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-10-2019 03:51 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(02-02-2019 02:20 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(02-02-2019 01:04 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Look at San Diego's season ticket prices. $75 for 5 games to start.

https://aaf.com/san-diego-fleet/tickets#season-tickets

Who's really going to spend big bucks on tickets for this league? Ridiculous they don't start at $10 and try to appeal to families.

$75 for 5 games is $15 per ticket. $15 per game for season ticket price. $20 for per game. That's not out of line for minor league sports.
I pay more than 15 bucks to watch AA baseball in Biloxi, MS. Price is more than reasonable. $5.00 beers and it's a good deal.

Yes, but are those the worst seats in the house? Is this the first year of AA baseball in Biloxi for an unproven league with no top professional league affiliation? No
02-10-2019 05:23 PM
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Post: #80
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
I drove down 5 hours to attend the inaugural game in Orlando. The atmosphere was very good. Announced attendance of 20k was definitely accurate. I actually thought maybe a little more, around 25k. It felt a lot like a college bowl game. People were definitely very excited. I think if the city continues to embrace the team they’ll do very well. Playing on UCF’s campus was also very smart. There were a decent number of college students there and I imagine that’ll increase. It should also be noted that the weather was pretty blah all day and it rained on and off throughout the game but the crowd remained. Wish I lived closer!
02-10-2019 06:41 PM
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