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What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #21
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-02-2019 12:38 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  I think that the AAF has a solid shot. They need to expand by four to eight teams in the next couple of season. I'd choose the following cities.

1, Dallas
2, St. Louis
3, New Orleans
4, Las Vegas
5, Houston
6, Oklahoma City
7, Little Rock
8, Kansa city

This could quickly develop into a solid bus league.
Really? Really?

Your choices illustrate that you should NEVER start a business.

Dallas, St. Louis and Houston are XFL cities. Plus, Dallas doesn't give a $hit about spring playing FC Dallas, and the Rangers will be in a new stadium in 2020...People will go there just to see the new stadium. St. Louis is basically a 2.25 pro city town and the Cardinals possess 1.5 of that. Houston as the same Dallas issues, but no NHL.

Oklahoma City: Where would they play?

Little Rock: War Memorial Stadium needs the revenue, but will folks actually show up?

New Orleans: Who would show up? Even is you play at Tulane, who would go there?

Las Vegas: Who would go to games and where would you play when UNLV razes Sam Boyd Stadium?
02-02-2019 01:14 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
An interesting set of TV deals. I think it says much about the AAF and backhandedly about the XFL.

CBS/CBSSN and Turner/Bleacher Reports is half the deal here. CBS is looking for content for it's CBSSN channel, and it is using Turner Sports to test launch live sports online via Bleacher Report (B/R Live). This is seed money for Eye network of companies. The first two games being on CBS is to try and introduce the league to potential fans and try to help drive them onto CBSSN.

NFL Network is even more intriguing. But it does make a lot of sense. After the Super Bowl the NFL Network turns into a 24/7 rerun station for the better part of half a year -- it does crank up again with the draft combines and draft in April. But it's really dead from February 4th until late April. The AAF deal puts live content on the network February 9th to April 14th. It's still off season (think ski towns in July and August), so any football content is helpful. It gives the full time employees (I am aware it's a lot of FOX overlap here) at the network something to do, even if it loses money.

But what is interesting about the NFL Network is who is not, namely the XFL. The AAF is made up of people with NFL connections. The XFL is McMahon, and seems to be more of a marketing approach. There is no love loss between the NFL and McMahon. Helping the AAF launch a year earlier than the XFL and providing a reasonable TV package, the effort here is to take oxygen out of the room when the XFL launches. The AAF will have the NFL promoting it.

Only one of these two will survive, and my bet is Ebersol's league, nor McMahon's.
02-02-2019 02:43 AM
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AuzGrams Offline
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Post: #23
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
I'd guess that the XFL will get a deal with ABC/ESPN and/or FOX Sports.

1 game a week on an ESPN Network (ABC/ESPN/ESPN2)
1 game a week on ESPN+
1 game a week on FOX.
1 game a week on FS1.

The AAF package is not bad and I feel like the XFL will get a decent amount of exposure as well.
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2019 03:01 AM by AuzGrams.)
02-02-2019 03:00 AM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #24
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-02-2019 02:43 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  An interesting set of TV deals. I think it says much about the AAF and backhandedly about the XFL.

CBS/CBSSN and Turner/Bleacher Reports is half the deal here. CBS is looking for content for it's CBSSN channel, and it is using Turner Sports to test launch live sports online via Bleacher Report (B/R Live). This is seed money for Eye network of companies. The first two games being on CBS is to try and introduce the league to potential fans and try to help drive them onto CBSSN.

NFL Network is even more intriguing. But it does make a lot of sense. After the Super Bowl the NFL Network turns into a 24/7 rerun station for the better part of half a year -- it does crank up again with the draft combines and draft in April. But it's really dead from February 4th until late April. The AAF deal puts live content on the network February 9th to April 14th. It's still off season (think ski towns in July and August), so any football content is helpful. It gives the full time employees (I am aware it's a lot of FOX overlap here) at the network something to do, even if it loses money.

But what is interesting about the NFL Network is who is not, namely the XFL. The AAF is made up of people with NFL connections. The XFL is McMahon, and seems to be more of a marketing approach. There is no love loss between the NFL and McMahon. Helping the AAF launch a year earlier than the XFL and providing a reasonable TV package, the effort here is to take oxygen out of the room when the XFL launches. The AAF will have the NFL promoting it.

Only one of these two will survive, and my bet is Ebersol's league, nor McMahon's.

April 7, 2018 was the morning which the AAF announced their partnership on CBS/CBSSN with Spurrier as their first coach. They have had issues selling advertising since then. Those guys with the AAF are likely marks trying to invest and will lost $$$ in spring football.

These TV deals are not cutting checks to the AAF, it is more likely the AAF is writing checks to the networks since Spring Football has yet to establish a TV or digital demand in 20 years.

Both leagues will have an issue with retention season ticket sales from year one to year two. Ticket sales are the lifeblood of minor league sports, especially minor league football. AAF is paying for players salary, housing, and scholarships, or so they say. That's LOTS of overhead before we get to talk about insurance.

Plus, AAF is producing all of the games themselves. They are partnering with not CBS, but with Scottsdale, Arizona based Sneaky Big Studios to broadcast video content, like the pre/halftime/post-game shows. Half the game calls will be there too and they want to use Marvin Lewis, who lives in Scottsdale.

AAF VP of Prodiction, Mark Teitelman, described
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2019 03:10 AM by Renandpat.)
02-02-2019 03:06 AM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #25
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-02-2019 03:00 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  I'd guess that the XFL will get a deal with ABC/ESPN and/or FOX Sports.

1 game a week on an ESPN Network (ABC/ESPN/ESPN2)
1 game a week on ESPN+
1 game a week on FOX.
1 game a week on FS1.

The AAF package is not bad and I feel like the XFL will get a decent amount of exposure as well.
TV exposure is not the issue, revenue is. They must sell tickets to survive as the gate pays the bills.

The AAF package is bad because of the scramble to get what they have. They spent money they didn't think they needed to.

The AAF was all in on their app and its capabilities for over a year, yet the now want to partner with BR/Live? What gives?
02-02-2019 03:17 AM
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hawghiggs Offline
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Post: #26
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-02-2019 01:14 AM)Renandpat Wrote:  
(02-02-2019 12:38 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  I think that the AAF has a solid shot. They need to expand by four to eight teams in the next couple of season. I'd choose the following cities.

1, Dallas
2, St. Louis
3, New Orleans
4, Las Vegas
5, Houston
6, Oklahoma City
7, Little Rock
8, Kansa city

This could quickly develop into a solid bus league.
Really? Really?

Your choices illustrate that you should NEVER start a business.

Dallas, St. Louis and Houston are XFL cities. Plus, Dallas doesn't give a $hit about spring playing FC Dallas, and the Rangers will be in a new stadium in 2020...People will go there just to see the new stadium. St. Louis is basically a 2.25 pro city town and the Cardinals possess 1.5 of that. Houston as the same Dallas issues, but no NHL.

Oklahoma City: Where would they play?

Little Rock: War Memorial Stadium needs the revenue, but will folks actually show up?

New Orleans: Who would show up? Even is you play at Tulane, who would go there?

Las Vegas: Who would go to games and where would you play when UNLV razes Sam Boyd Stadium?


Why would it matter if Dallas and Houston are XFL cities? Competition is a good thing and they are huge markets. Offer a superior product and fans will come. The criticism of OKC is fair. But for St.Louis it is not. The AAF isn't trying to own the market. They are trying to be an option in the market. Getting 25-35k in attendance is very reasonable expectations when you're offering only 8-10 games per season. Las Vegas could play in the new stadium the cities building or be swapped out for another city in California. As for Little Rock. I think they actually would support a team. When the AFL2 was a thing. Little Rock led attendance for that league.
02-02-2019 06:33 AM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #27
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-02-2019 03:00 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  I'd guess that the XFL will get a deal with ABC/ESPN and/or FOX Sports.

1 game a week on an ESPN Network (ABC/ESPN/ESPN2)
1 game a week on ESPN+
1 game a week on FOX.
1 game a week on FS1.

The AAF package is not bad and I feel like the XFL will get a decent amount of exposure as well.

I don't think ESPN will be in since he has no WWE deal with them but I think he can work with NBC/Comcast to get one or two games a week on NBCSN with an occasional game on NBC.
02-02-2019 07:03 AM
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AuzGrams Offline
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Post: #28
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-02-2019 07:03 AM)whittx Wrote:  
(02-02-2019 03:00 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  I'd guess that the XFL will get a deal with ABC/ESPN and/or FOX Sports.

1 game a week on an ESPN Network (ABC/ESPN/ESPN2)
1 game a week on ESPN+
1 game a week on FOX.
1 game a week on FS1.

The AAF package is not bad and I feel like the XFL will get a decent amount of exposure as well.

I don't think ESPN will be in since he has no WWE deal with them but I think he can work with NBC/Comcast to get one or two games a week on NBCSN with an occasional game on NBC.

They've already said they've been in talks with ABC/ESPN and Fox Sports. A deal will be announced sometime very soon.
02-02-2019 07:06 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #29
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
I was a fan of the USFL in the early Eighties. I thought that David Dixon's concept of a spring league that would not directly compete with the NFL was a solid one.

Some people inside the USFL had too big of an ego and that league died.

I am hoping the AAF does well.
02-02-2019 10:19 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #30
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
I am also rooting for the AAF because of its ND ties with the leaders of that league.


"And one with quite a bit of Notre Dame flavor.

AAF CEO and co-founder Charlie Ebersol, whose eight-team league begins play next weekend (Feb. 9-10) with a 10-game regular season, is a 36-year-old ND grad. Co-founder and former NFL general manager Bill Polian is the father of Irish special teams coordinator/recruiting coordinator Brian Polian.

Former ND standout Justin Tuck is on the player engagement board of advisors."


There are also 8 former ND players on AAF final rosters:

"Besides Redfield, there are seven former Irish players who made the final roster cuts earlier this week (from 75 to 52): running back Tarean Folston, linebackers Greer Martini and Nyles Morgan, punter Ben Turk, cornerback Cody Riggs, offensive guard John Montelus and long snapper Scott Daly."

https://www.ndinsider.com/football/intri...296d2.html
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2019 10:55 AM by TerryD.)
02-02-2019 10:46 AM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #31
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-02-2019 07:03 AM)whittx Wrote:  
(02-02-2019 03:00 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  I'd guess that the XFL will get a deal with ABC/ESPN and/or FOX Sports.

1 game a week on an ESPN Network (ABC/ESPN/ESPN2)
1 game a week on ESPN+
1 game a week on FOX.
1 game a week on FS1.

The AAF package is not bad and I feel like the XFL will get a decent amount of exposure as well.

I don't think ESPN will be in since he has no WWE deal with them but I think he can work with NBC/Comcast to get one or two games a week on NBCSN with an occasional game on NBC.
ESPN has given the WWE a section of ESPN.com, so they have a relationship. That said, they know the tenor for spring football and how it would draw viewers as well as anyone, even in a cord cutting era.
02-02-2019 11:30 AM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #32
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-02-2019 06:33 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  
(02-02-2019 01:14 AM)Renandpat Wrote:  
(02-02-2019 12:38 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  I think that the AAF has a solid shot. They need to expand by four to eight teams in the next couple of season. I'd choose the following cities.

1, Dallas
2, St. Louis
3, New Orleans
4, Las Vegas
5, Houston
6, Oklahoma City
7, Little Rock
8, Kansa city

This could quickly develop into a solid bus league.
Really? Really?

Your choices illustrate that you should NEVER start a business.

Dallas, St. Louis and Houston are XFL cities. Plus, Dallas doesn't give a $hit about spring playing FC Dallas, and the Rangers will be in a new stadium in 2020...People will go there just to see the new stadium. St. Louis is basically a 2.25 pro city town and the Cardinals possess 1.5 of that. Houston as the same Dallas issues, but no NHL.

Oklahoma City: Where would they play?

Little Rock: War Memorial Stadium needs the revenue, but will folks actually show up?

New Orleans: Who would show up? Even is you play at Tulane, who would go there?

Las Vegas: Who would go to games and where would you play when UNLV razes Sam Boyd Stadium?


Why would it matter if Dallas and Houston are XFL cities? Competition is a good thing and they are huge markets. Offer a superior product and fans will come. The criticism of OKC is fair. But for St.Louis it is not. The AAF isn't trying to own the market. They are trying to be an option in the market. Getting 25-35k in attendance is very reasonable expectations when you're offering only 8-10 games per season. Las Vegas could play in the new stadium the cities building or be swapped out for another city in California. As for Little Rock. I think they actually would support a team. When the AFL2 was a thing. Little Rock led attendance for that league.
It matters because disposable income is no infinite. MLS barely gains traction in both Dallas and Houston, so adding a new football league in both cities is risky, yet alone two in DFW. The workers comp insurance costs for California are thus that's why the San Fran based AAF didn't put a team there.

Getting 25-25K through the turnstyles at a reduced cost to the NFL still isn't good enough as the overhead is the killer. AAF is also paying to house players and staff too. They are setting $$$ on fire.
02-02-2019 11:35 AM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #33
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
Look at San Diego's season ticket prices. $75 for 5 games to start.

https://aaf.com/san-diego-fleet/tickets#season-tickets

Who's really going to spend big bucks on tickets for this league? Ridiculous they don't start at $10 and try to appeal to families.
02-02-2019 01:04 PM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #34
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-02-2019 01:04 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Look at San Diego's season ticket prices. $75 for 5 games to start.

https://aaf.com/san-diego-fleet/tickets#season-tickets

Who's really going to spend big bucks on tickets for this league? Ridiculous they don't start at $10 and try to appeal to families.

$75 for 5 games is $15 per ticket. $15 per game for season ticket price. $20 for per game. That's not out of line for minor league sports.
02-02-2019 02:20 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #35
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-02-2019 01:04 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Look at San Diego's season ticket prices. $75 for 5 games to start.

https://aaf.com/san-diego-fleet/tickets#season-tickets

Who's really going to spend big bucks on tickets for this league? Ridiculous they don't start at $10 and try to appeal to families.

This isn't minor league baseball when they have 60+ games to get their money and can charge $10 or less for tickets. And unlike minor league baseball, where the parent club pay the players and coaches and unlike a G5 school with cheap tickets, this football league must pay the players with only five times at the gate.
02-02-2019 03:49 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #36
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
$15 a ticket isn’t expensive if you’re going with your buddies, not so much for a family of 4 and that’s only if you’re buying the season ticket. Who isn’t going to pay $20 per game for the worst seats in the house, when those tickets will be on Groupon later in the season. It’s dumb.
02-02-2019 04:20 PM
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BullsFanInTX Offline
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Post: #37
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-01-2019 06:02 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  My question is why are so many people in positions of power so enamored with spring football when history shows a field littered with failed attempts?

In the past 30-some years, the following leagues made a go of non-fall football and failed quickly:
USFL
WLAF
American wing of the CFL
Original XFL
UFL

That's not counting the leagues that never made it to the field. And yet there's the AAF starting next week, the revived XFL in 2020 and the Freedom Football League with a tentative 2020 start date.

What's the appeal? There's plenty of evidence that there isn't enough interest in spring football (or if there is, it's abstract and largely unmoved by the many attempts at it to date), and yet they keep trying, thinking they can find the magic formula to succeed where nobody else has before. Why is this such a white whale?

Really?

Compating the freedom football league to the AAF? The FFL will never even play a game and is just an idea of some former players. Sounds like a league for NFL retirees and never has beens to participate in.

The AAF has solid TV deals all around. Every game is televised nationally on a major network or live streaming. NFL minds and fingerprints all over it. Solid fringe NFL talent all over the league. 70 percent of the current players have been on an NFL roster within the past 18 months. Who knows what will happen with the XFL. Not a lot has been announced yet, other than franchise locations and that they were seeking TV deals. But, the comparison to the current AAF, which appears to be legit, and the Freedom Football League is laughable at best, as if they currently on the same level.
02-02-2019 07:58 PM
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BullsFanInTX Offline
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Post: #38
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-02-2019 02:20 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(02-02-2019 01:04 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Look at San Diego's season ticket prices. $75 for 5 games to start.

https://aaf.com/san-diego-fleet/tickets#season-tickets

Who's really going to spend big bucks on tickets for this league? Ridiculous they don't start at $10 and try to appeal to families.

$75 for 5 games is $15 per ticket. $15 per game for season ticket price. $20 for per game. That's not out of line for minor league sports.

That's the cheapest seat in the stadium. Their are many that are much more expensive. As if every seat in the stadium sells for 15 dollars. The San Antonio Commanders are selling sideline seats on the 50 yard line for 235 dollars a ticket. Other good sideline seats are running from 54 dollars to 127 dollars. Check ticketmaster.

https://www1.ticketmaster.com/san-antoni...7AA2B026F4
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2019 08:05 PM by BullsFanInTX.)
02-02-2019 08:02 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #39
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-02-2019 07:58 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  
(02-01-2019 06:02 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  My question is why are so many people in positions of power so enamored with spring football when history shows a field littered with failed attempts?

In the past 30-some years, the following leagues made a go of non-fall football and failed quickly:
USFL
WLAF
American wing of the CFL
Original XFL
UFL

That's not counting the leagues that never made it to the field. And yet there's the AAF starting next week, the revived XFL in 2020 and the Freedom Football League with a tentative 2020 start date.

What's the appeal? There's plenty of evidence that there isn't enough interest in spring football (or if there is, it's abstract and largely unmoved by the many attempts at it to date), and yet they keep trying, thinking they can find the magic formula to succeed where nobody else has before. Why is this such a white whale?

Really?

Compating the freedom football league to the AAF? The FFL will never even play a game and is just an idea of some former players. Sounds like a league for NFL retirees and never has beens to participate in.

The AAF has solid TV deals all around. Every game is televised nationally on a major network or live streaming. NFL minds and fingerprints all over it. Solid fringe NFL talent all over the league. 70 percent of the current players have been on an NFL roster within the past 18 months. Who knows what will happen with the XFL. Not a lot has been announced yet, other than franchise locations and that they were seeking TV deals. But, the comparison to the current AAF, which appears to be legit, and the Freedom Football League is laughable at best, as if they currently on the same level.

AAF has either brokered their TV deals or have a revenue sharing agreement regarding advertising. That's really not solid. AAF had to turn to NFLN and TNT so fast because they count not get advertisers for CBSSN games. That was more desperation than being good. Announcing an agreement within a week of starting isn't great.
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2019 09:21 PM by Renandpat.)
02-02-2019 09:13 PM
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Post: #40
RE: What's the tv value of the AAF and XFL?
(02-02-2019 10:19 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I was a fan of the USFL in the early Eighties. I thought that David Dixon's concept of a spring league that would not directly compete with the NFL was a solid one.

Some people inside the USFL had too big of an ego and that league died.

I am hoping the AAF does well.

I thought it had great potential. Scatter a few teams in the biggest markets but for the most part fucusing on cities on the cusp of being large enough for the NFL. It could of been brilliant for 3 reasons:

1. A training ground for future NFL stars
2. Bringing football to underserved markets
3. Providing national television content for fan across the country in the off season
02-02-2019 09:17 PM
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