(06-03-2015 10:07 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 10:00 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 09:56 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 09:47 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 08:56 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Legal experts say UT’s Campbell erred with prayer

If the coach, from now on, said he was speaking from "his private capacity", would that be ok with liberals with regard to the prayer?

This is also a libertarian issue, for those libertarians who understand the ideology and follow it fully, and not just when they find it convenient.

So, would it be ok? I mean from the quote that seemed to be the issue. I was just curious. My guess is people would still complain.

Of course it wouldn't be ok, he's still their coach, on their field, leading his team, working in his capacity as a coach. A teacher/coach can't just say 'I'm acting in a private capacity' in front of the students and remove themselves from the responsibilities their position entails, and the fact you don't understand this would be funny if you weren't serious.

I get what you are saying; however, the dude that was quoted is full of crap then.

Quote:“It’s really a question of whether they’re speaking on behalf of the university or they're speaking in their private capacity,” Mr. Friedman said. “Here, it’s pretty clear [Campbell] is not speaking in his private capacity.”

[/quote]

So, according to him, it's a "question" but according to you it isn't a question at all. I get what you are saying though.

(06-03-2015 10:30 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 10:07 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 10:00 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 09:56 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 09:47 AM)VA49er Wrote:  If the coach, from now on, said he was speaking from "his private capacity", would that be ok with liberals with regard to the prayer?

This is also a libertarian issue, for those libertarians who understand the ideology and follow it fully, and not just when they find it convenient.

So, would it be ok? I mean from the quote that seemed to be the issue. I was just curious. My guess is people would still complain.

Of course it wouldn't be ok, he's still their coach, on their field, leading his team, working in his capacity as a coach. A teacher/coach can't just say 'I'm acting in a private capacity' in front of the students and remove themselves from the responsibilities their position entails, and the fact you don't understand this would be funny if you weren't serious.

I get what you are saying; however, the dude that was quoted is full of crap then.

Quote:“It’s really a question of whether they’re speaking on behalf of the university or they're speaking in their private capacity,” Mr. Friedman said. “Here, it’s pretty clear [Campbell] is not speaking in his private capacity.”

So, according to him, it's a "question" but according to you it isn't a question at all. I get what you are saying though.
[/quote]

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Of course it is a question of whether or not he's working in a personal capacity, the answer is 'if he's in uniform, on a football field, leading his team, then he is not acting in a personal capacity'. Even if he states he means this in a personal capacity, it wouldn't fly in that context. Just like a teacher stating they are acting in a personal capacity doesn't mean they can just open the bible and preach to their class, that wouldn't work here either. For a coach, the field and the locker room is their classroom.

Coach Campbell Acquiesces - Toledo football players to personally choose preparation

(06-01-2015 03:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:20 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 02:42 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  This is why, even when I was an atheist, I truly hated being grouped in with miserable pricks like this.

Yep. Most atheists just ignore religion entirely. I wouldn't really describe myself as atheist, just indifferent towards religion, and stuff like this doesn't bother me at all.

People that threaten / file lawsuits for people displaying their faith, however, bothers me a lot.

So are both of you guys really gonna tell me that if your boss decided to lead a group prayer that you wouldn't feel compelled to join in if you weren't religious?

Bingo...

Yahtzee...

(06-18-2015 11:11 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:20 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 02:42 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  This is why, even when I was an atheist, I truly hated being grouped in with miserable pricks like this.

Yep. Most atheists just ignore religion entirely. I wouldn't really describe myself as atheist, just indifferent towards religion, and stuff like this doesn't bother me at all.

People that threaten / file lawsuits for people displaying their faith, however, bothers me a lot.

So are both of you guys really gonna tell me that if your boss decided to lead a group prayer that you wouldn't feel compelled to join in if you weren't religious?

Bingo...

Yahtzee...

Go fish...

(06-02-2015 09:26 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:18 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:12 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:09 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:07 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No it doesn't. I know it helps you to believe that an atheist cares at all about you praying, but they really don't.

If they didn't care, then they wouldn't have pushed to have a prayer banned to begin with.

Ok, once more, all together now, they didn't want the prayer banned; they wanted to ban the practice of having state employees leading prayers and endorsing a single religion. Do you comprehend the difference between the two?

End result is the same. The rest is semantics.

No, the result is wholly different. Do you think before you post?

You clearly don't.

(06-18-2015 11:16 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 11:11 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:20 PM)Niner National Wrote:  Yep. Most atheists just ignore religion entirely. I wouldn't really describe myself as atheist, just indifferent towards religion, and stuff like this doesn't bother me at all.

People that threaten / file lawsuits for people displaying their faith, however, bothers me a lot.

So are both of you guys really gonna tell me that if your boss decided to lead a group prayer that you wouldn't feel compelled to join in if you weren't religious?

Bingo...

Yahtzee...

Go fish...

Diagonally? Pretty sneaky sis...

(06-18-2015 11:19 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 11:16 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 11:11 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  So are both of you guys really gonna tell me that if your boss decided to lead a group prayer that you wouldn't feel compelled to join in if you weren't religious?

Bingo...

Yahtzee...

Go fish...

Diagonally? Pretty sneaky sis...

fatality...

(06-02-2015 11:11 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:32 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  You accuse people of visceral reactions while calling this state-funded prayer without actually backing it up, you call what the coach is doing "proselytizing," and using a slippery slope argument. Pot, meet Kettle.

I'm not sure you've read this thread if your stance is that I haven't 'backed it up', when I explicitly have explained how it is a manner of state endorsement of religion. I don't know what else to say to this comment except, you're wrong, and that's par for the course for you. A coach, acting in his capacity as a coach, encouraging players to take part in his expression of his religious beliefs is unambiguously an unconstitutional breach in the establishment clause. It's really that simple.

Quote:If the coach is praying for the death of infidels or something like that then you might have something, but praying for safety or for help in being a good sport offends you, well then tough s***.

And no, if the coach was Muslim and 60% or 2% of the team were Muslims and they prayed together before games I wouldn't care if they have a prayer and I wouldn't say anything to anyone unless I thought they were actually dangerous or they were actively ostracizing or harassing players who don't participate.

Not at all a compelling legal or moral argument. As I've explained half a dozen times elsewhere in this thread, the fact that this isn't a huge encroachment of religion into public schools isn't a defense of it's morality or legality. It's fine that it doesn't bother you, and you think people are being babies for it bothering them, but that doesn't make it a rational argument nor would any objective or intelligent person find it compelling.

Brush up on your constitutional law, learn how to create a compelling argument, and let's try this again.

Are you a lawyer?

(06-18-2015 11:20 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 11:19 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 11:16 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 11:11 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Bingo...

Yahtzee...

Go fish...

Diagonally? Pretty sneaky sis...

fatality...

Ok, you got me on that one. I have no idea what game, if any, that is.

(06-18-2015 11:22 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 11:11 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:32 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  You accuse people of visceral reactions while calling this state-funded prayer without actually backing it up, you call what the coach is doing "proselytizing," and using a slippery slope argument. Pot, meet Kettle.

I'm not sure you've read this thread if your stance is that I haven't 'backed it up', when I explicitly have explained how it is a manner of state endorsement of religion. I don't know what else to say to this comment except, you're wrong, and that's par for the course for you. A coach, acting in his capacity as a coach, encouraging players to take part in his expression of his religious beliefs is unambiguously an unconstitutional breach in the establishment clause. It's really that simple.

Quote:If the coach is praying for the death of infidels or something like that then you might have something, but praying for safety or for help in being a good sport offends you, well then tough s***.

And no, if the coach was Muslim and 60% or 2% of the team were Muslims and they prayed together before games I wouldn't care if they have a prayer and I wouldn't say anything to anyone unless I thought they were actually dangerous or they were actively ostracizing or harassing players who don't participate.

Not at all a compelling legal or moral argument. As I've explained half a dozen times elsewhere in this thread, the fact that this isn't a huge encroachment of religion into public schools isn't a defense of it's morality or legality. It's fine that it doesn't bother you, and you think people are being babies for it bothering them, but that doesn't make it a rational argument nor would any objective or intelligent person find it compelling.

Brush up on your constitutional law, learn how to create a compelling argument, and let's try this again.

Are you a lawyer?

no, but he did stay at a holiday inn express

(06-18-2015 11:23 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 11:22 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 11:11 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:32 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  You accuse people of visceral reactions while calling this state-funded prayer without actually backing it up, you call what the coach is doing "proselytizing," and using a slippery slope argument. Pot, meet Kettle.

I'm not sure you've read this thread if your stance is that I haven't 'backed it up', when I explicitly have explained how it is a manner of state endorsement of religion. I don't know what else to say to this comment except, you're wrong, and that's par for the course for you. A coach, acting in his capacity as a coach, encouraging players to take part in his expression of his religious beliefs is unambiguously an unconstitutional breach in the establishment clause. It's really that simple.

Quote:If the coach is praying for the death of infidels or something like that then you might have something, but praying for safety or for help in being a good sport offends you, well then tough s***.

And no, if the coach was Muslim and 60% or 2% of the team were Muslims and they prayed together before games I wouldn't care if they have a prayer and I wouldn't say anything to anyone unless I thought they were actually dangerous or they were actively ostracizing or harassing players who don't participate.

Not at all a compelling legal or moral argument. As I've explained half a dozen times elsewhere in this thread, the fact that this isn't a huge encroachment of religion into public schools isn't a defense of it's morality or legality. It's fine that it doesn't bother you, and you think people are being babies for it bothering them, but that doesn't make it a rational argument nor would any objective or intelligent person find it compelling.

Brush up on your constitutional law, learn how to create a compelling argument, and let's try this again.

Are you a lawyer?

no, but he did stay at a holiday inn express

HEY-OH!!

I've Got a great idea, Let These far Left Yahoos come out on the Football field at Any Game, NASCAR Race or whatever and Plead Their case to the Folks in attendance and see how long They last !

(06-18-2015 12:47 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I've Got a great idea, Let These far Left Yahoos come out on the Football field at Any Game, NASCAR Race or whatever and Plead Their case to the Folks in attendance and see how long They last !

Yes....a great idea! Propose something completely unrelated to the issue at hand and cheer for knee-jerk reactions.

(06-02-2015 11:01 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  No. You see I have these things called balls. These balls that I have allow me to stand up to people.

(06-18-2015 12:47 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I've Got a great idea, Let These far Left Yahoos come out on the Football field at Any Game, NASCAR Race or whatever and Plead Their case to the Folks in attendance and see how long They last !

(06-18-2015 11:23 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 11:22 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  Are you a lawyer?

no, but he did stay at a holiday inn express

I used to use this line when I would sit in with other bands for a song or two. I would play a song that highlighted my lead chops, then after the song and a quick applause, I would say "I'm not really a guitar player, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night", then step off the stage.

Brought the house down every time.

I stopped doing it a few years ago because I haven't seen the commercials in so long. Not sure how many will get the joke now.

I wonder what the reaction around here'd be if he'd asked them to bow to Mecca.

(06-02-2015 09:07 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:05 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:59 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:57 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  They tried this at a high school in middle TN. Wouldn't let them pray over the PA system before football games. So, they solved that problem by having a moment of silence during which the cheerleaders started and most everyone recited the Lord's Prayer. Nothing that the atheist idiots could do about that.

There is nothing they would want to do about that, that's student and community led, not state led. The distinction is as important as the distinction between civil and criminal law, ya blockhead.

Either way, everyone is praying. That drives the atheist nuts. I love it!

No it doesn't. I know it helps you to believe that an atheist cares at all about you praying, but they really don't.

we don't....

I have a friend that texts me a daily prayer (and she knows).....told her if it makes her feel good, it makes me feel good.....I just delete the texts....

during any prayer moment, I would just never look down and scope the chicks while they weren't looking....it just never was a big deal to me....

I personally believe it shows weakness in the individual to take a hardcore stance against a moment of silence to reflect or pray

(06-20-2015 09:41 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:07 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:05 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:59 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:57 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  They tried this at a high school in middle TN. Wouldn't let them pray over the PA system before football games. So, they solved that problem by having a moment of silence during which the cheerleaders started and most everyone recited the Lord's Prayer. Nothing that the atheist idiots could do about that.

There is nothing they would want to do about that, that's student and community led, not state led. The distinction is as important as the distinction between civil and criminal law, ya blockhead.

Either way, everyone is praying. That drives the atheist nuts. I love it!

No it doesn't. I know it helps you to believe that an atheist cares at all about you praying, but they really don't.

we don't....

I have a friend that texts me a daily prayer (and she knows).....told her if it makes her feel good, it makes me feel good.....I just delete the texts....

during any prayer moment, I would just never look down and scope the chicks while they weren't looking....it just never was a big deal to me....

I personally believe it shows weakness in the individual to take a hardcore stance against a moment of silence to reflect or pray

I haven't ever seen this to be the case though, it's explicitly leading the team in a christian prayer that people should speak up against. Of course it's not the end of the world, and there are far worse fates than sitting through some guy talking to an imaginary person in the sky, but allowing him to preach as a coach requires we allow all coaches the right to lead their players in any religious worship they see fit. Just have a moment of silence and sidestep the issue, basically just act like a grown ass adult who can see beyond "WELL THIS IS 'MURICA AND IM CHRISTIAN".

It's just stupid in this day and age that people are really arguing against these raising this issue, and this isn't aimed at you. As it's been pointed out before, the same people decrying these 'far-left atheists' would be crying foul if this coach didn't happen to be christian or they were praying to Mecca.