(06-01-2015 09:11 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  State led and funded prayer, pretty important distinction that you're intentionally not including .

How is it a state-funded prayer? Is Matt Campbell somehow on the clock while the team prays?

I will never understand why people feel like they have to put a stop to this stuff. Seems very much to go against the "live and let live" mantra.

(06-02-2015 08:44 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 09:11 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  State led and funded prayer, pretty important distinction that you're intentionally not including .

How is it a state-funded prayer? Is Matt Campbell somehow on the clock while the team prays?

I will never understand why people feel like they have to put a stop to this stuff. Seems very much to go against the "live and let live" mantra.

Because it's all about them and what THEY want. Everyone else be damned.

(06-01-2015 03:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:20 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 02:42 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  This is why, even when I was an atheist, I truly hated being grouped in with miserable pricks like this.

Yep. Most atheists just ignore religion entirely. I wouldn't really describe myself as atheist, just indifferent towards religion, and stuff like this doesn't bother me at all.

People that threaten / file lawsuits for people displaying their faith, however, bothers me a lot.

So are both of you guys really gonna tell me that if your boss decided to lead a group prayer that you wouldn't feel compelled to join in if you weren't religious?

they could just grab there blackberry and surf the net while others who chose to pray pray....

or they could get all pout... and think to themselves, I am excluded, I am discriminated against, my boss gave me a dirty look, Joey didn't say hi to me this morning... I guess I am going to sue.

They tried this at a high school in middle TN. Wouldn't let them pray over the PA system before football games. So, they solved that problem by having a moment of silence during which the cheerleaders started and most everyone recited the Lord's Prayer. Nothing that the atheist idiots could do about that.

(06-02-2015 08:44 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 09:11 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  State led and funded prayer, pretty important distinction that you're intentionally not including .

How is it a state-funded prayer? Is Matt Campbell somehow on the clock while the team prays?

I will never understand why people feel like they have to put a stop to this stuff. Seems very much to go against the "live and let live" mantra.

He's acting in the capacity as a coach and instructing his whole team to take part in something, so yes at that point he IS on the proverbial clock while leading the prayer. And again, no one has a problem with a team prayer, people have a problem with a coach-led team prayer.

Trying to proselytize to your football players as a coach seems very against the 'live and let live' mantra too, but weirdly enough that doesn't bother you. Blaming the person pointing that out makes about as much sense as I have come to expect from a depressing amount of posters on this messageboard, whose views seem to be nothing but visceral reactions without the slightest bit of thought put into them.

No thought is put into the fact that if we allow this coach to do it, you allow any crazy nutjob with a religious bone to pick to do it also. It's the Ten Commandments on the courthouse steps leading to a Satanic monument all over again, but let's not focus on the real constitutional implications here, instead lets try to diminish atheism by pointing out this isn't a hugely oppressive action, as if that matters.

(06-02-2015 08:57 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  They tried this at a high school in middle TN. Wouldn't let them pray over the PA system before football games. So, they solved that problem by having a moment of silence during which the cheerleaders started and most everyone recited the Lord's Prayer. Nothing that the atheist idiots could do about that.

There is nothing they would want to do about that, that's student and community led, not state led. The distinction is as important as the distinction between civil and criminal law, ya blockhead.

(06-02-2015 08:56 AM)No Bull Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:20 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 02:42 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  This is why, even when I was an atheist, I truly hated being grouped in with miserable pricks like this.

Yep. Most atheists just ignore religion entirely. I wouldn't really describe myself as atheist, just indifferent towards religion, and stuff like this doesn't bother me at all.

People that threaten / file lawsuits for people displaying their faith, however, bothers me a lot.

So are both of you guys really gonna tell me that if your boss decided to lead a group prayer that you wouldn't feel compelled to join in if you weren't religious?

they could just grab there blackberry and surf the net while others who chose to pray pray....

or they could get all pout... and think to themselves, I am excluded, I am discriminated against, my boss gave me a dirty look, Joey didn't say hi to me this morning... I guess I am going to sue.

Wow, yet another genius response from the peanut gallery. Be proud of the thought and nuance you didn't put into your opinions.

(06-02-2015 08:46 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:44 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 09:11 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  State led and funded prayer, pretty important distinction that you're intentionally not including .

How is it a state-funded prayer? Is Matt Campbell somehow on the clock while the team prays?

I will never understand why people feel like they have to put a stop to this stuff. Seems very much to go against the "live and let live" mantra.

Because it's all about them and what THEY want. Everyone else be damned.

Because the coach leading a prayer isn't about what HE wants? Come on man, put a little effort into this.

(06-02-2015 08:59 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:57 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  They tried this at a high school in middle TN. Wouldn't let them pray over the PA system before football games. So, they solved that problem by having a moment of silence during which the cheerleaders started and most everyone recited the Lord's Prayer. Nothing that the atheist idiots could do about that.

There is nothing they would want to do about that, that's student and community led, not state led. The distinction is as important as the distinction between civil and criminal law, ya blockhead.

Either way, everyone is praying. That drives the atheist nuts. I love it!

(06-02-2015 09:03 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:46 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:44 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 09:11 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  State led and funded prayer, pretty important distinction that you're intentionally not including .

How is it a state-funded prayer? Is Matt Campbell somehow on the clock while the team prays?

I will never understand why people feel like they have to put a stop to this stuff. Seems very much to go against the "live and let live" mantra.

Because it's all about them and what THEY want. Everyone else be damned.

Because the coach leading a prayer isn't about what HE wants? Come on man, put a little effort into this.

Did one of the players complain? If so, then the coach should take that players thoughts into consideration going foward.

(06-02-2015 09:05 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:59 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:57 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  They tried this at a high school in middle TN. Wouldn't let them pray over the PA system before football games. So, they solved that problem by having a moment of silence during which the cheerleaders started and most everyone recited the Lord's Prayer. Nothing that the atheist idiots could do about that.

There is nothing they would want to do about that, that's student and community led, not state led. The distinction is as important as the distinction between civil and criminal law, ya blockhead.

Either way, everyone is praying. That drives the atheist nuts. I love it!

No it doesn't. I know it helps you to believe that an atheist cares at all about you praying, but they really don't.

(06-02-2015 09:06 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:03 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:46 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:44 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 09:11 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  State led and funded prayer, pretty important distinction that you're intentionally not including .

How is it a state-funded prayer? Is Matt Campbell somehow on the clock while the team prays?

I will never understand why people feel like they have to put a stop to this stuff. Seems very much to go against the "live and let live" mantra.

Because it's all about them and what THEY want. Everyone else be damned.

Because the coach leading a prayer isn't about what HE wants? Come on man, put a little effort into this.

Did one of the players complain? If so, then the coach should take that players thoughts into consideration going foward.

For all we know, multiple players HAVE complained, and nothing has changed.

(06-02-2015 09:08 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:06 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:03 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:46 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:44 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  How is it a state-funded prayer? Is Matt Campbell somehow on the clock while the team prays?

I will never understand why people feel like they have to put a stop to this stuff. Seems very much to go against the "live and let live" mantra.

Because it's all about them and what THEY want. Everyone else be damned.

Because the coach leading a prayer isn't about what HE wants? Come on man, put a little effort into this.

Did one of the players complain? If so, then the coach should take that players thoughts into consideration going foward.

For all we know, multiple players HAVE complained, and nothing has changed.

For all we know, nobody has complained. Know we're just talking what ifs.

(06-02-2015 09:07 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No it doesn't. I know it helps you to believe that an atheist cares at all about you praying, but they really don't.

If they didn't care, then they wouldn't have pushed to have a prayer banned to begin with.

(06-02-2015 09:06 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Did one of the players complain? If so, then the coach should take that players thoughts into consideration going forward.

I get the feeling this would have the playing picking splinters out of the pine bench.

(06-02-2015 09:09 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:07 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No it doesn't. I know it helps you to believe that an atheist cares at all about you praying, but they really don't.

If they didn't care, then they wouldn't have pushed to have a prayer banned to begin with.

Ok, once more, all together now, they didn't want the prayer banned; they wanted to ban the practice of having state employees leading prayers and endorsing a single religion. Do you comprehend the difference between the two?

(06-02-2015 09:12 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:09 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:07 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No it doesn't. I know it helps you to believe that an atheist cares at all about you praying, but they really don't.

If they didn't care, then they wouldn't have pushed to have a prayer banned to begin with.

Ok, once more, all together now, they didn't want the prayer banned; they wanted to ban the practice of having state employees leading prayers and endorsing a single religion. Do you comprehend the difference between the two?

End result is the same. The rest is semantics.

(06-02-2015 09:18 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:12 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:09 AM)MemphisTiger15 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:07 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No it doesn't. I know it helps you to believe that an atheist cares at all about you praying, but they really don't.

If they didn't care, then they wouldn't have pushed to have a prayer banned to begin with.

Ok, once more, all together now, they didn't want the prayer banned; they wanted to ban the practice of having state employees leading prayers and endorsing a single religion. Do you comprehend the difference between the two?

End result is the same. The rest is semantics.

No, the result is wholly different. Do you think before you post?

(06-02-2015 08:58 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  He's acting in the capacity as a coach and instructing his whole team to take part in something, so yes at that point he IS on the proverbial clock while leading the prayer. And again, no one has a problem with a team prayer, people have a problem with a coach-led team prayer.

Trying to proselytize to your football players as a coach seems very against the 'live and let live' mantra too, but weirdly enough that doesn't bother you. Blaming the person pointing that out makes about as much sense as I have come to expect from a depressing amount of posters on this messageboard, whose views seem to be nothing but visceral reactions without the slightest bit of thought put into them.

No thought is put into the fact that if we allow this coach to do it, you allow any crazy nutjob with a religious bone to pick to do it also. It's the Ten Commandments on the courthouse steps leading to a Satanic monument all over again, but let's not focus on the real constitutional implications here, instead lets try to diminish atheism by pointing out this isn't a hugely oppressive action, as if that matters.

You accuse people of visceral reactions while calling this state-funded prayer without actually backing it up, you call what the coach is doing "proselytizing," and using a slippery slope argument. Pot, meet Kettle.

If the coach is praying for the death of infidels or something like that then you might have something, but praying for safety or for help in being a good sport offends you, well then tough s***.

And no, if the coach was Muslim and 60% or 2% of the team were Muslims and they prayed together before games I wouldn't care if they have a prayer and I wouldn't say anything to anyone unless I thought they were actually dangerous or they were actively ostracizing or harassing players who don't participate.

(06-02-2015 09:06 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 09:03 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:46 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-02-2015 08:44 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 09:11 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  State led and funded prayer, pretty important distinction that you're intentionally not including .

How is it a state-funded prayer? Is Matt Campbell somehow on the clock while the team prays?

I will never understand why people feel like they have to put a stop to this stuff. Seems very much to go against the "live and let live" mantra.

Because it's all about them and what THEY want. Everyone else be damned.

Because the coach leading a prayer isn't about what HE wants? Come on man, put a little effort into this.

Did one of the players complain? If so, then the coach should take that players thoughts into consideration going foward.

Quote:The Freedom From Religion Foundation said “a concerned alumnus” alerted them to the video and that, because Mr. Campbell still is the head coach, it is concerned that the UT football team still holds prayers before games.

The advocacy group contends that Mr. Campbell insisted the players pray in the video.

In the video, after Mr. Campbell instructed the team to form a tight circle, he said, “I’m going to say this: Every one of us has so much to be thankful for. A great night to play football, play with your brothers, OK? What an opportunity.”

Mr. Campbell finished by saying, “Let’s be grateful for it,” and then he knelt to lead the team in prayer.

“Players trying to please their coach or curry favor surely feel huge pressure to participate in the pregame prayer led by Coach Campbell,” the Freedom From Religion Foundation’s letter said.

The University and the football coaching staff are endorsing religion whenever Coach Campbell incorporates prayer into the team’s pregame activities and allows himself or the coaching staff to lead them.”

http://www.bcsn.tv/news_article/show/519125

But think about it...I can easily see a Muslim or Jewish or any other religions player being afraid to raise his concerns with the coach.