Unreal...

Quote:The University of Toledo football program has been violating the Constitution with pregame prayers, according to the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

The group, which serves as a “voice for freethought,” claimed that Head Coach Matt Campbell committed a “serious and flagrant violation of the First Amendment” when he led the team in a prayer before a 2012 game against Bowling Green.

The complaint stems from a video posted to the university’s YouTube page which features footage from a GoPro mobile camera that was mounted on the helmet of then-kicker Jeremiah Detmer.

The video shows Coach Campbell telling the team “I’m going to say this: Every one of us has so much to be thankful for. A great night to play football, play with your brothers, OK? What an opportunity. Let’s be grateful for it.”

At that, he takes a knee and the team begins to recite the Lord’s Prayer.

According to the foundation, this sort of activity is unacceptable, and results in players feeling “huge pressure to participate in the prayer” in order to “please their coach or curry favor.”

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6540

Just out of curiosity: What makes them far left?

This is why, even when I was an atheist, I truly hated being grouped in with miserable pricks like this.

Why is it unreal ERC?

And what makes you think this group is far-left?

The coach of a public university organized a Christian prayer before a game. Would you be upset if a Muslim coach organized an Islamic prayer before a game?

There is a legitimate Constitutional issue to be discussed here. That's hardly something akin to "far-left".

(06-01-2015 03:13 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Why is it unreal ERC?

And what makes you think this group is far-left?

The coach of a public university organized a Christian prayer before a game. Would you be upset if a Muslim coach organized an Islamic prayer before a game?

No, because NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO DO ANYTHING.

It may not be "far left", but it's petty and asinine.

(06-01-2015 02:42 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  This is why, even when I was an atheist, I truly hated being grouped in with miserable pricks like this.

Yep. Most atheists just ignore religion entirely. I wouldn't really describe myself as atheist, just indifferent towards religion, and stuff like this doesn't bother me at all.

People that threaten / file lawsuits for people displaying their faith, however, bothers me a lot.

(06-01-2015 03:20 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 02:42 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  This is why, even when I was an atheist, I truly hated being grouped in with miserable pricks like this.

Yep. Most atheists just ignore religion entirely. I wouldn't really describe myself as atheist, just indifferent towards religion, and stuff like this doesn't bother me at all.

People that threaten / file lawsuits for people displaying their faith, however, bothers me a lot.

Yep, now if one of players on the team that was praying spoke up, then I'd say listen to him. However, I could not care less about what someone not affiliated with the team thinks. Other folks complaining, especially about something as benign as this, is the epitome of pettiness,smugness, and stupidity.

(06-01-2015 03:20 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 02:42 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  This is why, even when I was an atheist, I truly hated being grouped in with miserable pricks like this.

Yep. Most atheists just ignore religion entirely. I wouldn't really describe myself as atheist, just indifferent towards religion, and stuff like this doesn't bother me at all.

People that threaten / file lawsuits for people displaying their faith, however, bothers me a lot.

So are both of you guys really gonna tell me that if your boss decided to lead a group prayer that you wouldn't feel compelled to join in if you weren't religious?

(06-01-2015 03:15 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:13 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Why is it unreal ERC?

And what makes you think this group is far-left?

The coach of a public university organized a Christian prayer before a game. Would you be upset if a Muslim coach organized an Islamic prayer before a game?

No, because NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO DO ANYTHING.

"I want up everybody up here" was said by the coach, in a stern voice, before they prayed. I don't know if you've ever been part of a sports team, but when your coach gives a command like that, you best follow along if you want to play.

And the issue is not that the team said a prayer before the game or even that it was a Christian prayer. The issue is the coach forcefully leading it.

(06-01-2015 03:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:20 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 02:42 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  This is why, even when I was an atheist, I truly hated being grouped in with miserable pricks like this.

Yep. Most atheists just ignore religion entirely. I wouldn't really describe myself as atheist, just indifferent towards religion, and stuff like this doesn't bother me at all.

People that threaten / file lawsuits for people displaying their faith, however, bothers me a lot.

So are both of you guys really gonna tell me that if your boss decided to lead a group prayer that you wouldn't feel compelled to join in if you weren't religious?

Bingo...

(06-01-2015 03:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:20 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 02:42 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  This is why, even when I was an atheist, I truly hated being grouped in with miserable pricks like this.

Yep. Most atheists just ignore religion entirely. I wouldn't really describe myself as atheist, just indifferent towards religion, and stuff like this doesn't bother me at all.

People that threaten / file lawsuits for people displaying their faith, however, bothers me a lot.

So are both of you guys really gonna tell me that if your boss decided to lead a group prayer that you wouldn't feel compelled to join in if you weren't religious?

Don't know about them, but I wouldn't feel so compelled. What's my boss gonna do about it? If my lack of participation effects the way he treats me, THEN it's a 1st amendment issue and I feel I'd have a legitimate complaint.

Full disclosure, I don't want the school system, or it's athletic leadership, leading my children in prayer....that's not their job.

(06-01-2015 03:59 PM)ummechengr Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:20 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 02:42 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  This is why, even when I was an atheist, I truly hated being grouped in with miserable pricks like this.

Yep. Most atheists just ignore religion entirely. I wouldn't really describe myself as atheist, just indifferent towards religion, and stuff like this doesn't bother me at all.

People that threaten / file lawsuits for people displaying their faith, however, bothers me a lot.

So are both of you guys really gonna tell me that if your boss decided to lead a group prayer that you wouldn't feel compelled to join in if you weren't religious?

Don't know about them, but I wouldn't feel so compelled. What's my boss gonna do about it? If my lack of participation effects the way he treats me, THEN it's a 1st amendment issue and I feel I'd have a legitimate complaint.

Full disclosure, I don't want the school system, or it's athletic leadership, leading my children in prayer....that's not their job.

Sure, but the point is why should you be compelled to go prove that in a court of law or your HR department. And what about folks in a right to work state? They're even farther screwed. Just don't have the thing and it's a non-issue.

We prayed before every game, and we gave thanks after every game when everyone came through uninjured. No one was "compelled" to do a damn thing. We met at the 50 an all came along willingly.

There are no atheists in foxholes.

(06-01-2015 03:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:20 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 02:42 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  This is why, even when I was an atheist, I truly hated being grouped in with miserable pricks like this.

Yep. Most atheists just ignore religion entirely. I wouldn't really describe myself as atheist, just indifferent towards religion, and stuff like this doesn't bother me at all.

People that threaten / file lawsuits for people displaying their faith, however, bothers me a lot.

So are both of you guys really gonna tell me that if your boss decided to lead a group prayer that you wouldn't feel compelled to join in if you weren't religious?

Join in what regard? Sit there quietly while it happens? Sure. Actively pray? No.

(06-01-2015 03:25 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 03:20 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 02:42 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  This is why, even when I was an atheist, I truly hated being grouped in with miserable pricks like this.

Yep. Most atheists just ignore religion entirely. I wouldn't really describe myself as atheist, just indifferent towards religion, and stuff like this doesn't bother me at all.

People that threaten / file lawsuits for people displaying their faith, however, bothers me a lot.

So are both of you guys really gonna tell me that if your boss decided to lead a group prayer that you wouldn't feel compelled to join in if you weren't religious?

This used to happen all the time. Noone felt compelled to join in.

You lefties act like "how bad would this be if it happened". This used to be a regular occurrence. My principle used to recite the Lord's prayer every morning over the intercom.

Atheists have to make some compromises. I'm a Christian and I have no need for the Jewish holidays, but in some states they are legal holidays. I don't b-tch and moan about them. And in elementary school, we sang Hannukah songs in December. But we didn't complain.

In a multicultural society, we can't have our way every time.

Toledo. Not sure how to feels here.

#1. Don't care remotely that Toledo football has a pre-game prayer
#2. Support far-left yatheist group causing pain to Toledo football

I'm going with #2.

(I just want to state for the record that I fully support the eventual winner of this turd fight and would like to join the winner and other members of the angry mob in kicking the loser ruthlessly while he is down.)

They might want to pray more often.

Some really ignorant people in this thread, and the amount of mental gymnastics required to come to the conclusions they did are legitimately impressive. No one is claiming this is some huge wrong being committed or that those poor atheist children are being horribly mistreated, but that doesn't mean a coach of a publicly funded collegiate leading a prayer is constitutionally sound, which it unambiguously is not. I know it's how things were when you were raised, but that doesn't make it right, even if we all agree there are far larger wrongs being committed. A devoutly christian parent getting upset at a Muslim coach for pressuring their child to take part in a Muslim prayer would get nothing but nods of approval on here, yet an atheist does the same and it's wrong? Grow up.

It's weird how this messageboard overwhelmingly claims to be libertarian, yet with these sorts of issues come up, out comes the NeoConservative in many posters.