(01-19-2014 12:19 PM)JMUDuke25 Wrote:  When Mike O'Cain first got hired this board was nothing but complaining about his mediocre history. Now it's like we just let the Nick Saban of offense leave.

Football is 90% about the Jimmy's and Joe's and fundamentals.

By a vocal minority.

(01-20-2014 08:32 AM)NYJMUSupporter Wrote:  I love how so many of you think lack of budget is why Withers is hiring a young, hungry staff. Could it be that he has identified the coaches he believes best fit the system and culture he is trying to build?
He clearly is building a program that will center around coaches who are up and coming and highly motivated to succeed. I believe their energy will help in recruiting and will rub off onto the players. Withers has a tremendous amount of experience and he will ultimately be the final decision maker. He will help guide this young staff and blend their ideas into a solid gameplan. I am 100 percent behind his approach. Could it fail? Absolutely! But I have a feeling we are going to like what we see.

How do you know they are hungry?
How do you know they are up and coming?
How do you know they are highly motivated?
How do you know they have high energy?

Do young coaches = the above and older coaches = not hungry, not highly motivated, low energy, not up and coming?

(01-20-2014 10:29 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  Wither's has been looking for the right head coaching job for three years now. He has been at some good programs. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt that he has been thinking about how he would run a staff and who he would hire as coaches if he found the right job. I am not going to judge his staff by looking at their resume's. Every young man with ambition wants a shot. Someone gave me one almost 30 years ago.

I would have been fine with keeping O'Cain. His offense had good stats but we all some it struggle to score in the red zone. Losing him is not the end of the world. I thought Curt and Hanson were good coaches too.

What I heard was that the existing coaching staff lacked fire and that started with the head coach. The Mickey we saw on the sideline was not the Mickey addressing players in the locker room. This comes from people who were actually in the locker room. I think this is what the players are alluding to in some of the posts in this thread. The old staff seemed to be going about things in a businessman like manner. Wither's is bringing more emotion to the program and it seems to be well received.

I was all for Flip and feel confident he would have put together a good staff. I also feel good about Wither's so far. If Wither's does well, he won't be at JMU very long. Flip may still get his first HC job with us.

Seeing is believing for me. Wither's is the HC and is carrying out his plan for his program. The cupboard is not bare so I am expecting him to have a good season next year. JMU is not in rebuilding mode so there are no free passes. He needs to win day one for me to feel good about him as a head coach. IMO, JMU is a good program that needs to be made better.

Thats what championship programs do.

(01-20-2014 10:15 AM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 08:32 AM)NYJMUSupporter Wrote:  I love how so many of you think lack of budget is why Withers is hiring a young, hungry staff. Could it be that he has identified the coaches he believes best fit the system and culture he is trying to build?
He clearly is building a program that will center around coaches who are up and coming and highly motivated to succeed. I believe their energy will help in recruiting and will rub off onto the players. Withers has a tremendous amount of experience and he will ultimately be the final decision maker. He will help guide this young staff and blend their ideas into a solid gameplan. I am 100 percent behind his approach. Could it fail? Absolutely! But I have a feeling we are going to like what we see.

Give me some kind of proof that these are up and coming ? Are they trending in the coaching circles? And why do we speak on their energy and etc when I would dare say 90% of us never heard of any of them before. And is this the same budget Mickey had to work with or less? With a staff like this the results will fall directly on the head coach. So I'll just wait for results now. I do like the resume of Brad Davis and his interviews.

Come on Hotrod, you gotta keep up.
Young coaches = up and coming, high energy, highly motivated, big upside.
Old coaches= on the downside, low energy, not motivated, no upside. May as well turn them out to pasture.

(01-20-2014 01:16 AM)bulldogg Wrote:  I really appreciate all of the enthusiasm on the board about the recent unproven, obscure (being kind) hires. I have already gone on record to say that I am very concerned by them. Well, I am still very concerned by them. What's next, we'll get an assistant coach from a middle school?

We let O'Cain go and replaced him with a couple of guys who would maybe get the opportunity to carry his clipboard a year or two ago. OK. I am definitely NOT buying into the philosophy that younger = up-and-comer = better that some of you seem to be all about. I am watching closely and hoping for the best. I guess you might say I am "monitoring the situation." Not at all optimistic. Hoping my worst fears are completely unfounded.

A highly placed source in the athletics department told me that if this staff doesn't work out, we're looking at the ranks of Pee-Wee football coaches next. It's felt that those coaches are good at identifying talent in unique locations and they are used to motivating the modern young player, who may not always have a great attention span. Negatives will be a lack of experience in the downfield passing game.

(01-20-2014 05:34 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 10:29 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  Wither's has been looking for the right head coaching job for three years now. He has been at some good programs. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt that he has been thinking about how he would run a staff and who he would hire as coaches if he found the right job. I am not going to judge his staff by looking at their resume's. Every young man with ambition wants a shot. Someone gave me one almost 30 years ago.

I would have been fine with keeping O'Cain. His offense had good stats but we all some it struggle to score in the red zone. Losing him is not the end of the world. I thought Curt and Hanson were good coaches too.

What I heard was that the existing coaching staff lacked fire and that started with the head coach. The Mickey we saw on the sideline was not the Mickey addressing players in the locker room. This comes from people who were actually in the locker room. I think this is what the players are alluding to in some of the posts in this thread. The old staff seemed to be going about things in a businessman like manner. Wither's is bringing more emotion to the program and it seems to be well received.

I was all for Flip and feel confident he would have put together a good staff. I also feel good about Wither's so far. If Wither's does well, he won't be at JMU very long. Flip may still get his first HC job with us.

Seeing is believing for me. Wither's is the HC and is carrying out his plan for his program. The cupboard is not bare so I am expecting him to have a good season next year. JMU is not in rebuilding mode so there are no free passes. He needs to win day one for me to feel good about him as a head coach. IMO, JMU is a good program that needs to be made better.

Thats what championship programs do.

Some championship programs might do that, but it apparently wasn't working here. I don't think it's fair to say that this new staff is more hungry or dedicated just because they are young, but there is definitely something to say for new, fresh minds being brought in.

I'm all for debate and disagreeing on things, but I think some people are forgetting exactly where JMU ranks in the college football world right now. What did you expect? Withers to go out and hire offensive and defensive coordinators from BCS schools? He assembled a staff of guys who are looking for opportunities and have shown enough promise and ability to warrant a job offer. Some people are acting like JMU is some ultimate destination job right now. I hope it will be one day, but right now I think Withers has put together a good staff going forward.

I don't know for a fact that they are high energy and highly motivated to succeed. I am basing my opinion off comments made by Withers and the coaches, articles I have read, comments by players and people I have spoken to who have met the coaches.

With that being said, older coaches can absolutely be high energy and highly motivated to succeed.

All I am saying is I like the concept of a POTENTIALLY young, high energy staff.

Now all of you people who are clearly bitter because your buddy wasn't hired can return to criticizing every move made by the new staff and pick my statement apart. Have at it boys and girls.

(01-21-2014 01:23 AM)JMU2014 Wrote:  I'm all for debate and disagreeing on things, but I think some people are forgetting exactly where JMU ranks in the college football world right now. What did you expect? Withers to go out and hire offensive and defensive coordinators from BCS schools? He assembled a staff of guys who are looking for opportunities and have shown enough promise and ability to warrant a job offer. Some people are acting like JMU is some ultimate destination job right now. I hope it will be one day, but right now I think Withers has put together a good staff going forward.

Spot on.

(01-20-2014 05:38 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 10:15 AM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 08:32 AM)NYJMUSupporter Wrote:  I love how so many of you think lack of budget is why Withers is hiring a young, hungry staff. Could it be that he has identified the coaches he believes best fit the system and culture he is trying to build?
He clearly is building a program that will center around coaches who are up and coming and highly motivated to succeed. I believe their energy will help in recruiting and will rub off onto the players. Withers has a tremendous amount of experience and he will ultimately be the final decision maker. He will help guide this young staff and blend their ideas into a solid gameplan. I am 100 percent behind his approach. Could it fail? Absolutely! But I have a feeling we are going to like what we see.

Give me some kind of proof that these are up and coming ? Are they trending in the coaching circles? And why do we speak on their energy and etc when I would dare say 90% of us never heard of any of them before. And is this the same budget Mickey had to work with or less? With a staff like this the results will fall directly on the head coach. So I'll just wait for results now. I do like the resume of Brad Davis and his interviews.

Come on Hotrod, you gotta keep up.
Young coaches = up and coming, high energy, highly motivated, big upside.
Old coaches= on the downside, low energy, not motivated, no upside. May as well turn them out to pasture.

You can give it a rest, it is clear to everyone that you have a man-crush on MM. If it were up to you MM would have been given a lifetime contact based on 2004. If you are a JMU supporter why not stop ragging on the new coaching staff.

What did you lose sideline passes or something with the coaching change???

Shady, I'll defend BDK here. He sits up near me underneath the pressbox overhang. He's definitely not on the sideline. I'm not sure why he's mostly skeptical of the staff. I think he liked Mickey's football style/tendencies, but don't believe he was connected to Mick or the other candidates otherwise. I could be wrong.

That's cool....at some point there is a time to let it go. There has been a change in regime. Either get behind them and support or give it a rest until there is something to complain about.

From what I have seen/heard all positives so far. Players are excited and recruiting is looking good. Until you get to Spring practice that is all you got to go on.

I find it funny that the staunchest MM supporters are now the most critical of Withers.

Shoe is on the other foot.

(01-21-2014 09:49 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  I find it funny that the staunchest MM supporters are now the most critical of Withers.

Shoe is on the other foot.

Exactly, and at this point for no reason - he is 0-0.

MM got a year longer than he should have out of respect to get the ship turned around but could not get it done. Whether it was recruiting, in-game coaching, game planning/preperation, passion, love of the WR end-around or a combination of all MM did not get it done period and is gone.

I guess some folks feel winning a championship 10 years ago gives you a lifetime gig.

Good post that reminds me of Noop's old "they think they are...but they really are" game week threads. JMU has tremendous potential as a great place to go to school with an outstanding academic tradition and consistent growth over the years. However, Coach Withers characterized us best as "a gold mine," but not yet a destination for top-rank coaches. The new coaching staff is similar to the school: several bright young guys with a lot of potential, coupled with an old head with deep ties to the institution.

That said, I would have liked to see several assistants (Newsome, Edmonds, Hanson, and perhaps one other young coach) retained. I got to know the first two pretty well during Mickey's early tenure, and have heard great things about Hanson. Several other former players from the old staff had also been "coaches on the field," and will do well wherever they land. That said, despite countless changes of assistants over the previous five years, one person (actually two including Kyle Gillenwater) remained the same for 15 years, and it was clear that the Dukes would remain mired in mediocrity without a change at the top. That has been done, and I expect the Dukes to be better as an FCS program in 2014. I believe we should also expect and tolerate two or three 3-9 and 4-8 seasons during the transition to FBS.

Being a 3-9/4-8 FBS program in Coach Withers' years 10 and beyond, however, will be akin to a string of 6-5/7-4-type seasons in FCS. That will not be acceptable and I trust that leadership will be more proactive in managing Coach Withers' contract terms and extensions than they were with Coach Matthews.

(01-21-2014 01:23 AM)JMU2014 Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 05:34 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 10:29 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  Wither's has been looking for the right head coaching job for three years now. He has been at some good programs. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt that he has been thinking about how he would run a staff and who he would hire as coaches if he found the right job. I am not going to judge his staff by looking at their resume's. Every young man with ambition wants a shot. Someone gave me one almost 30 years ago.

I would have been fine with keeping O'Cain. His offense had good stats but we all some it struggle to score in the red zone. Losing him is not the end of the world. I thought Curt and Hanson were good coaches too.

What I heard was that the existing coaching staff lacked fire and that started with the head coach. The Mickey we saw on the sideline was not the Mickey addressing players in the locker room. This comes from people who were actually in the locker room. I think this is what the players are alluding to in some of the posts in this thread. The old staff seemed to be going about things in a businessman like manner. Wither's is bringing more emotion to the program and it seems to be well received.

I was all for Flip and feel confident he would have put together a good staff. I also feel good about Wither's so far. If Wither's does well, he won't be at JMU very long. Flip may still get his first HC job with us.

Seeing is believing for me. Wither's is the HC and is carrying out his plan for his program. The cupboard is not bare so I am expecting him to have a good season next year. JMU is not in rebuilding mode so there are no free passes. He needs to win day one for me to feel good about him as a head coach. IMO, JMU is a good program that needs to be made better.

Thats what championship programs do.

Some championship programs might do that, but it apparently wasn't working here. I don't think it's fair to say that this new staff is more hungry or dedicated just because they are young, but there is definitely something to say for new, fresh minds being brought in.

I'm all for debate and disagreeing on things, but I think some people are forgetting exactly where JMU ranks in the college football world right now. What did you expect? Withers to go out and hire offensive and defensive coordinators from BCS schools? He assembled a staff of guys who are looking for opportunities and have shown enough promise and ability to warrant a job offer. Some people are acting like JMU is some ultimate destination job right now. I hope it will be one day, but right now I think Withers has put together a good staff going forward.

(01-21-2014 08:37 AM)NYJMUSupporter Wrote:  I don't know for a fact that they are high energy and highly motivated to succeed. I am basing my opinion off comments made by Withers and the coaches, articles I have read, comments by players and people I have spoken to who have met the coaches.

With that being said, older coaches can absolutely be high energy and highly motivated to succeed.

All I am saying is I like the concept of a POTENTIALLY young, high energy staff.

Now all of you people who are clearly bitter because your buddy wasn't hired can return to criticizing every move made by the new staff and pick my statement apart. Have at it boys and girls.

Criticism is what happens all the time in big time division one programs .............that's what JMU wants to be correct? I wanted Barlow to get hired but I am not bitter about it, I actually have more respect for the administration for how the process was handled. I wouldn't call me a Mickey supporter, he approved my scholarship and was very good to me. But in terms of his coaching I've never looked at my self as a supporter. But if I see a statement that I feel is incorrect about him or his coaching I will say something.

I don't believe in blind faith , so before you think my criticism is bias, ask yourself if I am making a legitimate, insightful critique. If you think I am not , respond why and don't up just say I am butt hurt because Barlow wasn't hired lol. Cause I am not. Ohio State message boards were harder on Withers and the other co- defensive coordinator then I can ever be.

(01-21-2014 09:45 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  That's cool....at some point there is a time to let it go. There has been a change in regime. Either get behind them and support or give it a rest until there is something to complain about.

From what I have seen/heard all positives so far. Players are excited and recruiting is looking good. Until you get to Spring practice that is all you got to go on.

Either support or shut up ? I don't have have to support the person withers , and these hires he is making are personal hires. I support the team, not his personal decision or anything he did be for JMU. So I can critique that.

And what do you want players to say about the new coach , and recruiting is about the same as it's been for this program.

(01-21-2014 09:56 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 09:49 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  I find it funny that the staunchest MM supporters are now the most critical of Withers.

Shoe is on the other foot.

Exactly, and at this point for no reason - he is 0-0.

MM got a year longer than he should have out of respect to get the ship turned around but could not get it done. Whether it was recruiting, in-game coaching, game planning/preperation, passion, love of the WR end-around or a combination of all MM did not get it done period and is gone.

I guess some folks feel winning a championship 10 years ago gives you a lifetime gig.

I'm not really sure who you're referring to. I haven't really seen anyone make the case that MM should have been brought back for another year. From my observation it's been pretty unanimous here that it was time for a change.

(01-21-2014 10:53 AM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 09:56 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 09:49 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  I find it funny that the staunchest MM supporters are now the most critical of Withers.

Shoe is on the other foot.

Exactly, and at this point for no reason - he is 0-0.

MM got a year longer than he should have out of respect to get the ship turned around but could not get it done. Whether it was recruiting, in-game coaching, game planning/preperation, passion, love of the WR end-around or a combination of all MM did not get it done period and is gone.

I guess some folks feel winning a championship 10 years ago gives you a lifetime gig.

I'm not really sure who you're referring to. I haven't really seen anyone make the case that MM should have been brought back for another year. From my observation it's been pretty unanimous here that it was time for a change.

Just referring to those of us who are being so very critical of every hire that Wither's makes. Seems like nit-picking for no real reason at this point. Why not save the criticism until there is an actual on the field product to critique.?

And like someone else pointed out the most vocal of these are from the biggest MM supporters.

(01-21-2014 11:10 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 10:53 AM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 09:56 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 09:49 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  I find it funny that the staunchest MM supporters are now the most critical of Withers.

Shoe is on the other foot.

Exactly, and at this point for no reason - he is 0-0.

MM got a year longer than he should have out of respect to get the ship turned around but could not get it done. Whether it was recruiting, in-game coaching, game planning/preperation, passion, love of the WR end-around or a combination of all MM did not get it done period and is gone.

I guess some folks feel winning a championship 10 years ago gives you a lifetime gig.

I'm not really sure who you're referring to. I haven't really seen anyone make the case that MM should have been brought back for another year. From my observation it's been pretty unanimous here that it was time for a change.

Just referring to those of us who are being so very critical of every hire that Wither's makes. Seems like nit-picking for no real reason at this point. Why not save the criticism until there is an actual on the field product to critique.?
And like someone else pointed out the most vocal of these are from the biggest MM supporters.

New coach , new decisions , new criticism............same as in politics when they a new to the office.

This - and ask Jerry Moore at App about that lifetime gig thing. Even worse, I understand that unlike Coach Moore in his THREE NC seasons, Coach Matthews was a bit of an absentee coach during his NC year.

Hotrod, I recognize you're one key NC player who has good things to say about Coach Matthews. However, one of your teammates told me many times that he was not nearly as engaged with the day-to-day running of practice and operational oversight in 2004 as he had been previously because of Clayton's injury. As a result, Curt Newsome really ran the program during the NC year and ironically it and 1999 were the only years or Mickey's tenure that the Dukes exceeded expectations on the field.

It's easy to get all misty-eyed about 2008, but the Dukes' expected to win the title that year, but only got as far as they did because of closer than expected victories (Wofford in the second round of the playoffs), and miracle finishes (Nova and UR during the regular season). As a result, a bad bounce here and there could have led to another 7-4/8-3 type season. So while 12-2 and the top seed in the playoffs were great accomplishments, the fact is that the Ticks won the NC that year, adding to the disappointment of that season. And of course, we know about the sustained mediocrity since then.

So from my perspective, the success of years 1 and 5-10 had run its course and it was time to go in a different direction. Am more than willing to give Coach Withers a chance, but will be equally concerned if he and the new staff produce another 7-5/6-6 FCS season in 2014. To he who much has been given, much is expected.

(01-21-2014 09:56 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 09:49 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  I find it funny that the staunchest MM supporters are now the most critical of Withers.

Shoe is on the other foot.

Exactly, and at this point for no reason - he is 0-0.

MM got a year longer than he should have out of respect to get the ship turned around but could not get it done. Whether it was recruiting, in-game coaching, game planning/preperation, passion, love of the WR end-around or a combination of all MM did not get it done period and is gone.

I guess some folks feel winning a championship 10 years ago gives you a lifetime gig.