(10-09-2013 04:31 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-09-2013 04:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-09-2013 04:22 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-09-2013 04:13 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Again, apples and oranges. The Netherlands doesn't create the reserve currency.

Your comment has nothing to do with the conversation.

I love how this has become the leftist talking point du jour.

No problem with debt, we can just print more money, after all we are the world's reserve currency. Of course, prinitng more money jeopardizes that reserve currency status, and the more we print the more we jeopardize that status. What happens if one day the dollar is NO LONGER the world reserve currency? And be assured that moves are afoot to remove it of that status.

yep... and have been for quite some time. It can happen very quickly right now. It's particularly dangerous that so many of our bonds and dollars are held by China and members of OPEC.

You've hinted at the fact that they're following the models of small countries (like the Netherlands) when those plans don't work in larger countries... I think I'm onto something here with the "size" issue once again. Of course, it also fits with my personal beliefs so perhaps I'm jaded... but I'd like for someone to INTELLIGENTLY discuss it with me.

Actually, the Dutch health care system is one of the Bismarcks, and considered by some to be the best. Holland ranked #1 in the last rankings by Euro Health Consumer Institute, a think tank out of Stockholm, edging out France because of better IT score.

Iterestingly, EHCI did a ranking of 29 European countries, and then included the same data for Canada. Canada ranked 24th on raw score and 30th on a "bang for the buck" basis with cost considered as well as quality. 30th is a common position for Canada; they also ranked 30th in the WHO study where we ranked 37th. Somehow, Canada doesn't look like the model to follow.

The Bismarck approach is the one that appears to ramp up to large sized systems best. In the WHO study where we were 37th, we were actually #1 among countries with more than 125 million population, #2 (behind Japan) amoung countries with more than 80 million population, and #4 (behind Japan, France, and Germany) among countries with more than 60 million population. What do Japan, France, and Germany have in common? All are Bismarcks.

Also interesting to see how single-payer systems fared in the WHO rankings. There were four true single-payer systems: Canada (30), South Korea (59), Russia (130), and China (144). Kinda makes our 37th place look pretty good by comparison. There is a fifth true single payer system, Taiwan, which is not a member of WHO and was therefore not included. It's supposed to be a pretty decent system, but even so the single payers as a group don't fare well. Particularly in bigger countries.

(10-09-2013 04:45 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-09-2013 08:34 AM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  If I have a $100 limit on my credit card. I spend all $100 but pay nothing back.

I go to my credit card company and say “Look homie, if you raise my limit to $200, I’ll pay off $50 now, but I have bills to pay so I have to use up that extra $100 right away”

That means although I’ve paid $50 off. I’ve added $150 to the card and am now at my new limit of $200.

What part of this is confusing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZSMdlINVAk#t=24

Probably the part where the United States government has been doing this for years and it never was an issue that shut down the government before.

So what? We've been shutting down the federal government for decades and for things like fundraisers and barbeque dinners.

In comparison I'd suggest this is a far more compelling reason for negotiations than a barbeque wouldn't you?

Oh, and we've not been doing this "for years". We have gone from around 10 trillion in accumulated debt in the history of the Country, til 2008. Obama and the dims will have doubled that, and more, in the following ten years. Hardly "we've been doing this for years", unless you consider 2008-2018 "for years".

(10-09-2013 01:26 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(10-09-2013 01:04 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(10-09-2013 12:57 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(10-09-2013 12:52 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(10-09-2013 12:46 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Our govt's current inability to compromise on anything, but mainly the debt/spending issue, may eventually lead to a default. If that happens credit derivatives (look it up) will explode and set off repercusions in world wide financial markets. This, on top of the recent financial crises, will continue to diminish the world's peception of the US as reserve currency bearer. The currecny will just be too volatile to be considered stable. I don't agree with some of tea party issues, but the need to control our debt is one I do agree with. The tea baggers, allbeit in a confrontational manner, want exactly the opposide of what you postulated above.

So you stand with the tea party in destroying our and the world economy. Thanks for clarifying(though I already knew that is where you stood).

So, when does the piling up of debt end?

As soon as we start taking in more than we are spending?

No ****, Sherlock. And when will that be?

Toby again makes me

(10-09-2013 04:45 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Probably the part where the United States government has been doing this for years and it never was an issue that shut down the government before.

a) not true. We were shut down when Clinton got the hummer from Lewinski
b) all it takes to avoid a shut down is a compromise. All it takes to cause a shut down is to refuse to compromise. You can pick a side and decide who is compromising and who is not... but it is the Democrats who are seeking the change in the law (raise the debt ceiling), not the Republicans. The Republican's requests to change the law (defund/delay/whatever Obamacare) are the concession they are seeking to grant what the Democrats want.

All the Democrats would have needed to have done to have avoided all of this was to do a better job of allocating the trillions we've spent to fix the economy. If GDP were even remotely close to what we were told it would be, we wouldn't need the increase.

Do we even need a debt ceiling? I mean really, we don't really have one anyway if the one we do have is constantly raised. It's more like a debt speed bump. I checked and Denmark is the only other democratic country that has a debt ceiling. Seems the only thing ours does is create congressional showdowns. Just a thought.

(10-09-2013 12:46 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Our govt's current inability to compromise on anything, but mainly the debt/spending issue, may eventually lead to a default. If that happens credit derivatives (look it up) will explode and set off repercusions in world wide financial markets. This, on top of the recent financial crises, will continue to diminish the world's peception of the US as reserve currency bearer. The currecny will just be too volatile to be considered stable. I don't agree with some of tea party issues, but the need to control our debt is one I do agree with. The tea baggers, allbeit in a confrontational manner, want exactly the opposide of what you postulated above.

Rob's not sharp enough to figure all this out. His coloring book only includes simple minded talking points to use in his trolling.

If he were truly informed, he'd know that for several years now, some countries, (BRIC) have been discussing ways to create an alternative to the U.S. dollar being the reserve currency. When the U.S. dollar loses the status as the world's reserve currency, all bets are off here in the U.S. Some folks have no clue as to how it will affect us all.

(10-10-2013 11:23 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Do we even need a debt ceiling? I mean really, we don't really have one anyway if the one we do have is constantly raised. It's more like a debt speed bump. I checked and Denmark is the only other democratic country that has a debt ceiling. Seems the only thing ours does is create congressional showdowns. Just a thought.

Most of them can't or at least don't run the deficits we do.

The purpose of the debt ceiling is to maintain our incredibly low borrowing rate as the world's most common (but not only) reserve currency.

No other Democratic country has this position.