Part of a description of the Town Hall meeting last night of Rep. John Dingell:

Erick Schneidewind, state president of the AARP and former head of the Michigan Public Safety Commission, was the emcee. He introduced himself and was instantly assaulted by a barrage of "TRAITOR!" and "LIAR!" and boos from around the room. As he explained why the AARP is supporting health care reform (and they are doing a GREAT job debunking misinformation), his voice was drowned out by derisive catcalls and boos.

Mr. Schneidewind informed the crowd that, because there was such a large number of participants, they would hold the scheduled one hour town hall then clear the room and do a SECOND meeting to allow as many people to participate as possible.

He introduced disabled woman named Marsha Boehm, a university employee and small business owner. Marsha is a little person and stands about 3½ feet tall. As she spoke (or tried to), she was engulfed in more nasty commentary from the tea baggers in the audience. "SHE'S A PLANT!!!" and "GO HOME, LADY!" She told her story of losing her health care coverage and, due to her pre-existing condition, her inability to obtain further coverage. She asked the audience to think about how we decide "who deserves health care and who doesn't".

Needless to say, no reflection on her comments took place by most of the people in the audience.

Ms. Boehm introduced a Registered Nurse who spoke briefly but was nearly inaudible due to the incredibly rude and obnoxious crowd. She, in turn, introduced Representative John Dingell. At 83, Rep. Dingell is the oldest living longest-serving person in Congress today. He has introduced a single-payer health care bill every single year since he took over from his father in 1955 and has been at the forefront of the debate this legislative session. He began with some opening remarks but found it difficult, however, to overcome the unbelievably disrespectful comments, jeers and shouts as he talked. He managed to make make it through his remarks but, between a malfunctioning microphone and the raucous din from the tea baggers, he had a difficult time communicating to those of us who came to hear his take on the legislation currently before the House.

I won't forget the image of this elderly-yet-stately gentleman, calmly facing a hostile crowd. He's truly a class act.

Before he could take questions, a large man pushed his way right in front of Rep. Dingell pushing a young man in his wheelchair.

He proceeded to scream (literally scream) at Rep. Dingell, telling him that, under this new legislation, his son with cerebral palsy would be euthanized. Although Rep. Dingell assured him that this was certainly not the case, the man became more and more incensed, egged on by the crowd behind him. Dingell staffers were finally forced to move forward to ensure the man did not threaten Rep. Dingell.

As he became more and more threatening, the Romulus police finally intervened and escorted him out of the room.

Questions that had been gathered on cards were read one at a time. These were tough questions, not cherry-picked to make his life easy.

"Will I lose my health insurance though my employer if this bill passes?"

No.

"Will illegal aliens get health care under this bill?"

No.

"Will abortions be covered under this bill?"

No.

"Will elderly people be euthanized under this bill?"

No.

On and on the questions went. The answers were almost always what the crowd probably would have wanted to hear. But they weren't listening. They were so well indoctrinated with the anti-reform talking points that, even when the answer was the "correct" one according to their worldview, they would simply scream "LIAR!" and "bull****!" and "DID YOU EVEN READ THE BILL???"

Did you even read the bill? They actually asked that. They asked the man that has been instrumental in WRITING legislation like this for over FIFTY YEARS if he had read the bill he himself helped to write. Unbelievable.

Full account, with pictures, here: http://eclectablog.blogspot.com/

(08-05-2009 08:31 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(08-05-2009 08:29 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  Its racist when someone wants to take over 15% of the American economy...
Its racist when someone wants a one payer system and his minions claims its not true....
Its racist when someone wants to raise taxes in a depression on weak science / energy bill
Its racist when someone continues the bailout of corporate/union America at the expense of others.
Its racist when someone supports the commies/socialist in Latin America at the expense of the law, the congress, and the supreme court in Honduras.

Its all racist???

No... not sure of your point. As I said above, nobody is saying that everybody who opposes Obama is racist. Or at least, I've never said that. And it's an idiotic notion.

.See Paul Krugmann....NY TImes . This is the Dems & the Left at their core..... Idiotic indeed.

(08-07-2009 07:50 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(08-07-2009 07:47 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  But you - or anybody else - doesn't need to receive a mailer to hear the constant barrage of misinformation being propogated by the health care industry machine. It's all over the airwaves, with people like Glenn Beck, etc.

Misinformation like the actual verbiage from the bill itself?

Don't try to turn the misinformation back on the ministry of propaganda.

wvu people are going to these townhall meeting and being lied to. I for one think it's a reasonable reaction to get angry when you are being lied to. I'm not going to sit back and be respectful when someone lies. I'm going to call them a liar. LOUDLY.

(08-07-2009 07:52 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  But there is no credible way to look at what has been proposed by the president or any congressional committee and conclude that these will result in a government takeover of the health-care system. That is a flat-out lie whose only purpose is to scare the public and stop political conversation.

Uh, yes there is. Things like all the videos of Obama and a lot of members of Congress saying this is the road they are taking to "a government takeover of the health-care system".

Come on wvu. They say it with there own mouths. You can't dismiss that. It's their goal and they have stated it for years.

(08-07-2009 08:22 AM)NIU05 Wrote:  .See Paul Krugmann....NY TImes . This is the Dems & the Left at their core..... Idiotic indeed.

That's not what he said. He did not say that everybody who opposes Obama's plan is racist, but he is also not afraid to say that the "cultural and racial anxiety" IS A MAJOR COMPONENT, and he's right.

This is what he said:

the driving force behind the town hall mobs is probably the same cultural and racial anxiety that’s behind the “birther” movement, which denies Mr. Obama’s citizenship. Senator Dick Durbin has suggested that the birthers and the health care protesters are one and the same; we don’t know how many of the protesters are birthers, but it wouldn’t be surprising if it’s a substantial fraction.

And he made some terrific points, especially this:

There was a telling incident at a town hall held by Representative Gene Green, D-Tex. An activist turned to his fellow attendees and asked if they “oppose any form of socialized or government-run health care.” Nearly all did. Then Representative Green asked how many of those present were on Medicare. Almost half raised their hands.

(08-07-2009 07:45 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(08-06-2009 09:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-06-2009 08:26 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  well, it's starting.
http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.asp...86&catid=8
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/ar...025529.ece

What's starting?

I think there will be alot more chaos over this before it's finished, sadly.

I think you are right.
You have a president who told his followers to "get in the face" of opponents.
Now the other side is using the same tactics, for the first time ever.
Each side is more concerned about getting their way than about moving forward.
There is no way this ends well.

(08-07-2009 07:57 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(08-06-2009 09:57 PM)Paul M Wrote:  wvu seems to be the only one who has a problem with people accepting an invitation to a townhall meeting and having the audacity to speak.

Please, I'm all for healthy debate and discussion.

But these people were interested in one thing and one thing only - making a scene and disrupting the event.

The speakers - including a cancer patient who was trying to tell the crowd about her issues w/ her insurance company - were shouted down by angry protesters.

Kathy Castor wasn't able to speak with her constituents and answer questions.

Why is it that people who are so demanding - rightfully so - that they be heard are unwilling to let other people also talk and be heard?

Because they aren't interested in hearing what other people have to say, and they aren't interested in anything that goes against the lies they've been told by people like Glenn Beck.

We have over 200 years history of this. Nothing new except it's coming from a segment (the majority) that just has never done much of this. It's amazing that the left is feigning outrage because someone has taken a page fom their playbook.

(08-07-2009 08:08 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:   Good. If people want to act like jackasses and thugs I hope they get arrested.

If they want to actually communicate and express their ideas in a respectful way and not disrupt the event, and allow other people to speak, then maybe there can actually be a good debate and exchange of ideas.

Well this would be new, arresting people for speaking. Welcome to the new facist state brought to you by change you can believe in.

(08-07-2009 08:36 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  There is no way this ends well.

I suspect that the stories of the disruptions, chaos and anger at these meetings - which are spreading like wildfire all over the net - will lead to an increase in activists supportive to the President at these events.

There needs to be increased security to make sure that the peace is kept, and both sides are able to have their say in an organized, rational fashion. I *hope* that's what happens and that cooler heads prevail.

(08-07-2009 08:38 AM)Paul M Wrote:  

(08-07-2009 08:08 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:   Good. If people want to act like jackasses and thugs I hope they get arrested.

If they want to actually communicate and express their ideas in a respectful way and not disrupt the event, and allow other people to speak, then maybe there can actually be a good debate and exchange of ideas.

Well this would be new, arresting people for speaking. Welcome to the new facist state brought to you by change you can believe in.

Disorderly conduct is a new law? If people want to speak, they can come to the event, wait their turn, and speak.

(08-07-2009 08:36 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Nothing new except it's coming from a segment (the majority) that just has never done much of this.

It isn't the majority. It's a vocal and loud minority.

(08-07-2009 08:44 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(08-07-2009 08:36 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Nothing new except it's coming from a segment (the majority) that just has never done much of this.

It isn't the majority. It's a vocal and loud minority.

Facts say you're wrong.

Disorderly conduct is in the eye of the beholder. It's disorderly for these arrogant people to stand at the front of a room and lie to the voters. We have watched what you are NOW calling disorderly for 200 years from the left.

(08-07-2009 08:18 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  Full account, with pictures, here: http://eclectablog.blogspot.com/

Robert, aren't you supposed to scold wvucrazed and tell him that "blogs aren't news"?

(08-07-2009 08:32 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(08-07-2009 08:22 AM)NIU05 Wrote:  .See Paul Krugmann....NY TImes . This is the Dems & the Left at their core..... Idiotic indeed.

That's not what he said. He did not say that everybody who opposes Obama's plan is racist, but he is also not afraid to say that the "cultural and racial anxiety" IS A MAJOR COMPONENT, and he's right.

This is what he said:

the driving force behind the town hall mobs is probably the same cultural and racial anxiety that’s behind the “birther” movement, which denies Mr. Obama’s citizenship. Senator Dick Durbin has suggested that the birthers and the health care protesters are one and the same; we don’t know how many of the protesters are birthers, but it wouldn’t be surprising if it’s a substantial fraction.

And he made some terrific points, especially this:

There was a telling incident at a town hall held by Representative Gene Green, D-Tex. An activist turned to his fellow attendees and asked if they “oppose any form of socialized or government-run health care.” Nearly all did. Then Representative Green asked how many of those present were on Medicare. Almost half raised their hands.

If you apologize for his racial comments you are in the same camp. You did not read his point about "angry white men"? Krugman characterize anger by "white" ...i.e racial profiling of people with a different opinion than him and you defend him.

Here is the quote you may have missed..."Does this sound familiar? It should: it’s a strategy that has played a central role in American politics ever since Richard Nixon realized that he could advance Republican fortunes by appealing to the racial fears of working-class whites.

Many people hoped that last year’s election would mark the end of the “angry white voter” era in America. Indeed, voters who can be swayed by appeals to cultural and racial fear are a declining share of the electorate."

The left continues to play on race. Defending his argument is playing the same game.

(08-07-2009 08:44 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(08-07-2009 08:36 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Nothing new except it's coming from a segment (the majority) that just has never done much of this.

It isn't the majority. It's a vocal and loud minority.

Self indentified conservatives are the majority. I believe somewhere in the vacinity (someone can supply the correct number) of 40%. Add in the number of Independants and, oh no, they must be traitors, Democrats, the elderly (dems again) and, ahh, yes, it's the majority.

Were are all the SUPPORTERS of government run health care?

It's always been a "vocal and loud minority" protesting everything in the past.

(08-07-2009 08:48 AM)NIU05 Wrote:  Defending his argument is playing the same game.

That is because what he is saying is absolutely 100% true.

As I've said before, not everybody who opposes Obama or his agenda is racist. Not even close.

But racism still exists, it still feeds the mistrust many people have for Obama, and to pretend that this doesn't play a real part in the opposition and general hatred of Obama is to deny an ugly reality.

(08-07-2009 08:55 AM)Paul M Wrote:  

(08-07-2009 08:44 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(08-07-2009 08:36 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Nothing new except it's coming from a segment (the majority) that just has never done much of this.

It isn't the majority. It's a vocal and loud minority.

Self indentified conservatives are the majority. I believe somewhere in the vacinity (someone can supply the correct number) of 40%. Add in the number of Independants and, oh no, they must be traitors, Democrats, the elderly (dems again) and, ahh, yes, it's the majority.

Were are all the SUPPORTERS of government run health care?

It's always been a "vocal and loud minority" protesting everything in the past.

A CNN poll out a few days ago put support for Obama's health care plan at 50%.

His favorability rating hovers around 60%, and - oh yeah - he was just elected in November in what could be considered a landslide victory.

(08-07-2009 08:56 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(08-07-2009 08:48 AM)NIU05 Wrote:  Defending his argument is playing the same game.

That is because what he is saying is absolutely 100% true.

Krugman has NEVER had any kind of relationship with the truth what-so-ever.

(08-07-2009 08:48 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Disorderly conduct is in the eye of the beholder. It's disorderly for these arrogant people to stand at the front of a room and lie to the voters. We have watched what you are NOW calling disorderly for 200 years from the left.

George Bush and his cronies really DID lie about WMDs, the rationale for the war in Iraq, etc.

Picture it: a town hall meeting. A conservative republican lawmaker prepared to answer questions about why it is absolutely ESSENTIAL that we invade Iraq. Military men/women prepared to take the stage to give their testimony.

The crowd is filled with angry anti-war liberals who completely disrupt the event. They shout out the speakers, screaming LIAR LIAR LIAR repeatedly. Chaos ensues. The GOP lawmaker is unable to speak and answer the questions of his constituents.

I suspect that your apprehension about what might constitute "disorderly conduct" would be a little different in that scenario.