(03-16-2013 12:50 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's a fact that the main group having abortions are single mothers who already can't afford the child they currently have. Can you see the paradox you Republicans create for the rest of us Americans?

And minorities... Let's not forget minorities!

That would put a smile on Margret Sanger's face!

Quote:What if a 1yo has a 1% chance at life?

A family can always deny care and refuse treatment. Mothers and fathers across this great nation of our make this choice every day in every hospital across America.

Quote:What if a 2 week old is discovered to have a chromosomal problem nobody knew about?

With today's pre natal testing we can see a child's chromosomes in the womb. Once a parent knows they have a child with a chromosomal disability the abortion rate is over 80%. Now some could slip through the cracks and people may elect to institutionalize or deny care. That is their choice.

Quote:Love how you inserted "stillborn" in here as if I would have a problem aborting an already dead baby.

Again, in every hospital in every city people give births to stillborns every single day.

Quote:Downs kids are not vegtibles, your hatred of the disabled is astonishing but typical of the left. To a conservative "Better off dead" is a funny 80's film, to a Liberal its a mantra for family planning.

This may surprise you but people have non disjunctions in other chromosomes besides the 21st. Can you believe it??? Though not a trisomy event look up Cri du chat. Look up trisomy 7 or 17. You might find your vegetable there.

(03-16-2013 12:50 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Let's take a look at this and let's try to have a simple deductive reasoning argument. On one thread we have a poster lamenting abortions. It's a fact that the main group having abortions are single mothers who already can't afford the child they currently have. Can you see the paradox you Republicans create for the rest of us Americans?

No. I guess maybe I could see a paradox if the only way to avoid becoming a single mother was to have an abortion, but I can think of a couple of other ways. And I'm not even a Republican.

I thought we were talking about gays.

What do you think happens to that 48 million number if abortions are outlawed jh? That's the paradox. It's not logical.

It's all on the same bus on the same street bizzle.

Quote:Yea you justify abortion only by pointing at sick people which implies its more ok in your view to kill the disabled than the able bodied but *I'm* the one in a sick and twisted playground.

and I love how the Pro Life nut jobs make me a murderer. I'm advocating for a choice. You have no clue what I would do or what lengths I go for my loved ones. I just can't make that decision for OTHERS!

the other paradox.

On one hand we lament DEATH PANELS. We don't want a govt. advisory panel determining life or death decisions for our loved ones. On the other hand we are perfectly fine making decisions for other families when it comes to bringing in a life. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

As far as the thread topic... good for Portman.

As far as abortion, my stance has been the following for a while: pro-choice the first 6-8 weeks, pro-life thereafter, unless the mother's health is threatened. In other words, if you want an abortion, do it early before the fetus' heart starts beating and brainwaves kick in (and both those things happen roughly 6-8 weeks in). This isn't based on a religious or political motive, but a human one.

back to the thread topic.


Would Portman have switched if his kid wasn't gay? That in some sense makes it even worse in my book. Ohhh since my own kid has come out I now see the light. It has a narcissistic feel to me. It's only a problem when it effects me.

I wonder what would happen if he found out his son smoked pot while boning a hooker...

Or if he found out his son was... gasp... a libertarian?!?

(03-16-2013 01:51 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  back to the thread topic.
Would Portman have switched if his kid wasn't gay? That in some sense makes it even worse in my book. Ohhh since my own kid has come out I now see the light. It has a narcissistic feel to me. It's only a problem when it effects me.

Just curious, what is your view of Obama's "evolution" on gay marriage?

Poltical. Read the tea leaves and saw it advantageous to switch.

They sure won't be having a profiles in courage episode entitled Obama's Evolution on DOMA.

(03-16-2013 02:42 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Poltical. Read the tea leaves and saw it advantageous to switch.

Which is worse, switching for political reasons or switching for narcissistic ones? I'd go with political. Even if narcissistic decisions leave much to be desired, they still require a level of courage that political decisions don't.

(03-16-2013 01:13 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

Quote:What if a 1yo has a 1% chance at life?

A family can always deny care and refuse treatment. Mothers and fathers across this great nation of our make this choice every day in every hospital across America.

But they can't hack them into pieces or poison them... somewhat different right?[/quote]

Quote:

Quote:What if a 2 week old is discovered to have a chromosomal problem nobody knew about?

With today's pre natal testing we can see a child's chromosomes in the womb. Once a parent knows they have a child with a chromosomal disability the abortion rate is over 80%. Now some could slip through the cracks and people may elect to institutionalize or deny care. That is their choice.

By slip through the cracks I assume you mean don't get murdered... I know one such kid who had fragile x missed... Now his parents would have kept him anyway but that would have saved his life in another world.

He's never going to be a rocket scientist but more than capable of leading a full happy life.

Quote:

Quote:Love how you inserted "stillborn" in here as if I would have a problem aborting an already dead baby.

Again, in every hospital in every city people give births to stillborns every single day.

Does not change the fact that I would be ok with aborting a dead baby.

Quote:

Quote:Downs kids are not vegtibles, your hatred of the disabled is astonishing but typical of the left. To a conservative "Better off dead" is a funny 80's film, to a Liberal its a mantra for family planning.

This may surprise you but people have non disjunctions in other chromosomes besides the 21st. Can you believe it??? Though not a trisomy event look up Cri du chat. Look up trisomy 7 or 17. You might find your vegetable there.

So, in the interest of intellectual honesty... Would you be for banning all abortion except in those cases or is this pathetic appeal to emotion just a smoke screen?

(03-16-2013 01:27 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

Quote:Yea you justify abortion only by pointing at sick people which implies its more ok in your view to kill the disabled than the able bodied but *I'm* the one in a sick and twisted playground.

and I love how the Pro Life nut jobs make me a murderer. I'm advocating for a choice. You have no clue what I would do or what lengths I go for my loved ones. I just can't make that decision for OTHERS!

Hey you're the one that went right to... "Lets kill the disabled". if you don't like the fact you got called on it take your ball and go home..

(03-16-2013 01:27 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

Quote:Yea you justify abortion only by pointing at sick people which implies its more ok in your view to kill the disabled than the able bodied but *I'm* the one in a sick and twisted playground.

and I love how the Pro Life nut jobs make me a murderer. I'm advocating for a choice. You have no clue what I would do or what lengths I go for my loved ones. I just can't make that decision for OTHERS!

By the way is it ok to tell others not to rape or murder? Or does your concern for human life only begin once it comes flyiing out of a vajayjay

Politicians live by the Political Calculus. Show me a Republican that talks about global warming. Give me a Democrat who warns about the welfare trap. That's courage. This switch will help Portman in the general election. He's going in the wrong direction. He's taking the more popular stand and evolved that way because his kid is gay.

I don't know. It's like judging the smelliest turd.

Hey STALKER.

What part of this:

I just can't make that decision for OTHERS!


Do we not understand? Real simple question. You may be fine with it, I'm not, this is still America 1st amendment and all. I have the right to advocate that without being called a murderer.