(02-22-2012 10:08 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Christians still wonder why some of us out there prefer to embrace logic & reason over the Good Book.

Be sure to point them out when you get the chance. They're not very commonplace.

(02-22-2012 08:40 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Two major planks of the Democrat party are "kill" and "steal".

Well said.

(02-22-2012 09:17 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 09:08 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 08:58 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 08:55 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 08:42 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  As humans, according to science, we have "evolved" past the point of having instincts. Meaning everything we know or do is learned.

Incorrect, humans do many things by instinct. How do you think babies know how to breastfeed?

Humans are social animals. It is not unreasonable to assume that there are certain instinctual codes of behavior that must be followed in order for a society to exist.

The nuances of acceptable behavior are dictated by the culture but the major "rules" appeal to baser instincts. Theft and murder, for example, are discouraged by most social animals, just go watch one dog try to steal another dog's squeak toy.

Take it up with science. I'm just regurgitating what I was taught forever ago. There may be an exception for newborn's though. I remember someone asking about babies and swimming too. I'm pretty sure that at a certain age instincts go out the window and everything is learned.

Not sure where you went to school, but maybe if there was a national standard for curriculum, there wouldn't be populations so under-served as yourself by our education system.

Seriously though, it's not that instincts "go out the window", but rather they're not as needed for every day survival. Once we've developed the necessary motor and communication skills, we are able to survive based on our ability to think and interact with other humans. But as I stated before, certain instincts govern those interactions as a basic level, allowing us to continue to survive, thrive, and create a safe place for the next generation.

I wasn't under-served...the Anthropology prof. maybe. He made some compelling arguments though. I think most people on this board at least would have a hard time refuting him. It made sense at the time.

Any scientists on here care to shed some light on this.

Yeah, I bet he said the Earth is only a few thousand years old too.

(02-22-2012 10:27 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 09:17 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 09:08 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 08:58 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 08:55 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  Incorrect, humans do many things by instinct. How do you think babies know how to breastfeed?

Humans are social animals. It is not unreasonable to assume that there are certain instinctual codes of behavior that must be followed in order for a society to exist.

The nuances of acceptable behavior are dictated by the culture but the major "rules" appeal to baser instincts. Theft and murder, for example, are discouraged by most social animals, just go watch one dog try to steal another dog's squeak toy.

Take it up with science. I'm just regurgitating what I was taught forever ago. There may be an exception for newborn's though. I remember someone asking about babies and swimming too. I'm pretty sure that at a certain age instincts go out the window and everything is learned.

Not sure where you went to school, but maybe if there was a national standard for curriculum, there wouldn't be populations so under-served as yourself by our education system.

Seriously though, it's not that instincts "go out the window", but rather they're not as needed for every day survival. Once we've developed the necessary motor and communication skills, we are able to survive based on our ability to think and interact with other humans. But as I stated before, certain instincts govern those interactions as a basic level, allowing us to continue to survive, thrive, and create a safe place for the next generation.

I wasn't under-served...the Anthropology prof. maybe. He made some compelling arguments though. I think most people on this board at least would have a hard time refuting him. It made sense at the time.

Any scientists on here care to shed some light on this.

Yeah, I bet he said the Earth is only a few thousand years old too.

did you take that same class? What did you take away from it?

(02-22-2012 10:18 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:07 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 09:41 AM)TampaKnight Wrote:  Christianity isn't really all about "how to live a good life". Granted, it stresses the point of living out a life of holiness time and time again. But it is all about salvation through the sacrifice that Jesus made on the Cross of Calvary. Ultimately, it is more than just about a moral compass, it is about where you end up when you pass away. Lake of fire. Serving the Lord in Heaven. Jesus chose me, and that's where I'm heading. Grand assurance from God is a wonderful thing.

I love that the great "prize" in heaven is basically an eternity of church

Fortunately, that's not true.

The "saved" don't get to spend all eternity worshiping god?

(02-22-2012 11:42 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:18 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:07 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 09:41 AM)TampaKnight Wrote:  Christianity isn't really all about "how to live a good life". Granted, it stresses the point of living out a life of holiness time and time again. But it is all about salvation through the sacrifice that Jesus made on the Cross of Calvary. Ultimately, it is more than just about a moral compass, it is about where you end up when you pass away. Lake of fire. Serving the Lord in Heaven. Jesus chose me, and that's where I'm heading. Grand assurance from God is a wonderful thing.

I love that the great "prize" in heaven is basically an eternity of church

Fortunately, that's not true.

The "saved" don't get to spend all eternity worshiping god?

Worshiping God != Church....

(02-22-2012 11:44 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 11:42 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:18 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:07 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 09:41 AM)TampaKnight Wrote:  Christianity isn't really all about "how to live a good life". Granted, it stresses the point of living out a life of holiness time and time again. But it is all about salvation through the sacrifice that Jesus made on the Cross of Calvary. Ultimately, it is more than just about a moral compass, it is about where you end up when you pass away. Lake of fire. Serving the Lord in Heaven. Jesus chose me, and that's where I'm heading. Grand assurance from God is a wonderful thing.

I love that the great "prize" in heaven is basically an eternity of church

Fortunately, that's not true.

The "saved" don't get to spend all eternity worshiping god?

Worshiping God != Church....

right...

(02-22-2012 12:38 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 11:44 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 11:42 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:18 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:07 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  I love that the great "prize" in heaven is basically an eternity of church

Fortunately, that's not true.

The "saved" don't get to spend all eternity worshiping god?

Worshiping God != Church....

right...

Considering that you openly admit to knowing nothing about the subject, your contention is curious. You are insisting on arguing about something you have no knowledge of.

(02-22-2012 11:44 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 11:42 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:18 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:07 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 09:41 AM)TampaKnight Wrote:  Christianity isn't really all about "how to live a good life". Granted, it stresses the point of living out a life of holiness time and time again. But it is all about salvation through the sacrifice that Jesus made on the Cross of Calvary. Ultimately, it is more than just about a moral compass, it is about where you end up when you pass away. Lake of fire. Serving the Lord in Heaven. Jesus chose me, and that's where I'm heading. Grand assurance from God is a wonderful thing.

I love that the great "prize" in heaven is basically an eternity of church

Fortunately, that's not true.

The "saved" don't get to spend all eternity worshiping god?

Worshiping God != Church....

So religion isn't about a moral compass, and now you tell me the reward at the end, is the privilege to stroke some guy's ego for eternity. Certainly seems like a good enough reason to justify denying science, logic & reason.

(02-22-2012 12:40 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 12:38 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 11:44 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 11:42 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:18 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  Fortunately, that's not true.

The "saved" don't get to spend all eternity worshiping god?

Worshiping God != Church....

right...

Considering that you openly admit to knowing nothing about the subject, your contention is curious. You are insisting on arguing about something you have no knowledge of.

One has to believe something in order to have knowledge about it?

You can hold me to that standard on religion if I can hold you to it on global warming. Deal?

(02-22-2012 12:44 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 11:44 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 11:42 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:18 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:07 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  I love that the great "prize" in heaven is basically an eternity of church

Fortunately, that's not true.

The "saved" don't get to spend all eternity worshiping god?

Worshiping God != Church....

So religion isn't about a moral compass, and now you tell me the reward at the end, is the privilege to stroke some guy's ego for eternity. Certainly seems like a good enough reason to justify denying science, logic & reason.

Reminds me of the Kim Jong-Il "mourners"

(02-22-2012 10:12 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:08 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 09:41 AM)TampaKnight Wrote:  Christianity isn't really all about "how to live a good life". Granted, it stresses the point of living out a life of holiness time and time again. But it is all about salvation through the sacrifice that Jesus made on the Cross of Calvary. Ultimately, it is more than just about a moral compass, it is about where you end up when you pass away. Lake of fire. Serving the Lord in Heaven. Jesus chose me, and that's where I'm heading. Grand assurance from God is a wonderful thing.

Jesus chose you? So.. an all powerful god, creator of man, is just picking & choosing certain people (even though he created all of us) to enjoy his embrace & ******* over the rest of us?

I mean.. if Jesus / god didn't choose me, I certainly don't have the right to tell an all knowing being that he's wrong, so I'm basically screwed from the get go? And yet some Christians still wonder why some of us out there prefer to embrace logic & reason over the Good Book.

No. We don't wonder. That's the difference between you and me. I don't care what you believe. You try to legislate what I believe and how I worship.

Do tell.. did I force you to have an abortion? Force you to marry someone of the same sex? Force you to learn about evolution in church? Did we start teaching science in bible school.. I apologize for that.

You can believe whatever you want, no one is stopping you from living your life. Religious people are stopping gays from living theirs though. They are interfering with women's choice. They do try to bring religious teachings into public schools (creationism in Kansas for example). Do you not recall Christians outrage over Muslims trying to build a mosque / community center in NY?

(02-21-2012 10:00 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  God said the the profit Jemimah:

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

Jesus many times referenced these profits as being law givers.

Jemimah? Anything in there about his pancakes? Thanks, I'll be here night, tip your waitress.

Anyway, this would seem to indicate that life begins at conception (or even earlier!).

Quote:And the left doesn't want to enforce their own idea of morality on us?

That's what politics is. Think about that for a few years and maybe you can eat at the big kids table someday.

Quote:Exactly. So Max is busy pushing some contrived, irrational morality he doublespeaks as "social justice" and "tolerance" including actively through the courts, and then pretends that it's someone else who is self-rightous.

Of course I would like to enforce my ideals of morality on you (which entail preventing you from enforcing your ideals of morality on others, and I'm sure you feel the same way towards me). The difference is I don't claim any divine power or inspiration when I talk about my morals, or threaten people with eternal hellfire to get them on my side.

And I don't advocate absolute tolerance, so I'm not guilty of doublespeak. Intolerance is justified when directed toward people who hate and have no such justification. Like, being intolerant toward the KKK, Nazis and homophobes, whether they claim "God told me to think this way" or not.

Quote:Jesus viewed the Scriptures of the Old Testament as the very words of God. Psalm 139 shows how God feels about the unborn.

He did not equate taxes with theft (render unto Caesar what is Caesar's).

He did not equate taxes with theft, but many of his followers do so. Apparently he wasn't clear enough.

(02-22-2012 12:48 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 12:40 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 12:38 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 11:44 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 11:42 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  The "saved" don't get to spend all eternity worshiping god?

Worshiping God != Church....

right...

Considering that you openly admit to knowing nothing about the subject, your contention is curious. You are insisting on arguing about something you have no knowledge of.

One has to believe something in order to have knowledge about it?

You can hold me to that standard on religion if I can hold you to it on global warming. Deal?

No. Torchy believes in Christianity but has no knowledge of it.

(02-22-2012 12:48 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  One has to believe something in order to have knowledge about it?

I said nothing even remotely like that. So what are you writing about here?

You like to portray yourself as an honest skeptic, then you write nonsense like this...

(02-22-2012 12:53 PM)Max Power Wrote:  He did not equate taxes with theft (render unto Caesar what is Caesar's).

He did not equate taxes with theft, but many of his followers do so. Apparently he wasn't clear enough.
[/quote]

Max misses the point, why am I not surprised?

(02-22-2012 12:57 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 12:48 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  One has to believe something in order to have knowledge about it?

I said nothing even remotely like that. So what are you writing about here?

You like to portray yourself as an honest skeptic, then you write nonsense like this...

According to you, I "openly admit to knowing nothing of the subject", and since I have never said that, you must be referring to my openly admitting that I do not believe that garbage.

Or you're insane, which is equally plausible.

(02-21-2012 10:00 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 06:06 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Where does Jesus say life begins at conception? When did he say taxes are theft?

See you guys don't really even have guidance for what constitutes murder or theft because it's so vague. And the provisions that are there give self important sanctimonious preachers/priests grounds to interpret moral laws however they want, dictate to their flock and attempt to enforce their own idea of morality on the rest of us.

God said the the profit Jemimah:

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

Jesus many times referenced these profits as being law givers.

Bull, how do you feel about the "spilling of seed" then?

(02-22-2012 12:53 PM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:12 AM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 10:08 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  

(02-22-2012 09:41 AM)TampaKnight Wrote:  Christianity isn't really all about "how to live a good life". Granted, it stresses the point of living out a life of holiness time and time again. But it is all about salvation through the sacrifice that Jesus made on the Cross of Calvary. Ultimately, it is more than just about a moral compass, it is about where you end up when you pass away. Lake of fire. Serving the Lord in Heaven. Jesus chose me, and that's where I'm heading. Grand assurance from God is a wonderful thing.

Jesus chose you? So.. an all powerful god, creator of man, is just picking & choosing certain people (even though he created all of us) to enjoy his embrace & ******* over the rest of us?

I mean.. if Jesus / god didn't choose me, I certainly don't have the right to tell an all knowing being that he's wrong, so I'm basically screwed from the get go? And yet some Christians still wonder why some of us out there prefer to embrace logic & reason over the Good Book.

No. We don't wonder. That's the difference between you and me. I don't care what you believe. You try to legislate what I believe and how I worship.

Do tell.. did I force you to have an abortion? Force you to marry someone of the same sex? Force you to learn about evolution in church? Did we start teaching science in bible school.. I apologize for that.

You can believe whatever you want, no one is stopping you from living your life. Religious people are stopping gays from living theirs though. They are interfering with women's choice. They do try to bring religious teachings into public schools (creationism in Kansas for example). Do you not recall Christians outrage over Muslims trying to build a mosque / community center in NY?

You forced my tax dollars to fund abortion

You are trying to re-define a religious institution.

You attack/mock Creationists at every turn.

Yes. You're trying to legislate your warped sense of morality.

(02-22-2012 01:04 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 10:00 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-21-2012 06:06 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Where does Jesus say life begins at conception? When did he say taxes are theft?

See you guys don't really even have guidance for what constitutes murder or theft because it's so vague. And the provisions that are there give self important sanctimonious preachers/priests grounds to interpret moral laws however they want, dictate to their flock and attempt to enforce their own idea of morality on the rest of us.

God said the the profit Jemimah:

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

Jesus many times referenced these profits as being law givers.

Bull, how do you feel about the "spilling of seed" then?

As in planting a garden and you drop some tomato seeds?