(06-22-2025 08:28 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Its time to lullaby Khamenei.

Not us. I don't know that its a good idea for the Israelis either to make him a matyr.

(06-22-2025 09:41 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 09:37 AM)hburg Wrote:  If you notice the left has changed some of their messaging. For example, they are using the no new wars against Trump. Never mind the war with Hamas/Iran started October 7. They are also fear mongering about sending troops.. Which will not happen.

And Russia invaded Ukraine on Biden's watch. Well, not Biden. The unelected weasels behind the curtain.

They did it under Obama. Sat still with Trump in charge, then expanded their invasion under Biden.

(06-22-2025 10:44 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Forget about Iran for a moment. Putin can not be happy that the air defense systems he sold to Iran (some of their most sophisticated) did not detect the B2 bombers or their escorts. They basically flew into the heart of Iran and destroyed multiple sites and Iran was none the wiser.

Israel had already taken them out-a bunch last year and then the rest over the last few weeks.

(06-22-2025 10:55 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 10:49 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 10:43 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Btw, Elvis, you still are ignoring the comments about your statement that we should have used JDAMs instead of Tomahawks.

Are you sure you don't want to explain why we're wrong to think that was an incredibly stupid statement?

Or maybe average people saw it, and I missed it.

I made it pretty clear in this thread that B1 or B2 delivered JDAMs were much more economical that tomahawks, and that my speculation is that their inclusion is branch politics and the Navy basically not wanting to to be left out.

It would have been much more “economical” for obama to have NOT given Iran billions and billions of US taxpayer dollars.
Since you’re now selectively so budget conscious.

Iran did not receive taxpayer dollars under President Obama. What was given to Iran under the JCPOA was frozen Iranian assets -

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...iran-150-/

(06-22-2025 12:22 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 11:45 AM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

If they do that, it would fukc China much MUCH more than us.

And they not only want their nuclear program destroyed, but also their navy.

(06-22-2025 01:25 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 09:41 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 09:37 AM)hburg Wrote:  If you notice the left has changed some of their messaging. For example, they are using the no new wars against Trump. Never mind the war with Hamas/Iran started October 7. They are also fear mongering about sending troops.. Which will not happen.

And Russia invaded Ukraine on Biden's watch. Well, not Biden. The unelected weasels behind the curtain.

They did it under Obama. Sat still with Trump in charge, then expanded their invasion under Biden.

True. I was simply listing the most recent one, rather than going back in time.

(06-22-2025 01:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 12:22 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 11:45 AM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

If they do that, it would fukc China much MUCH more than us.

And they not only want their nuclear program destroyed, but also their navy.

I didn't think Iran had much of a Navy, but in fact, they do.

Quote:Yes, Iran has a navy, and it's comprised of two main branches: the Islamic Republic of Iran Navy (IRIN) and the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps Navy (IRGCN). The IRIN is part of the regular Iranian military, while the IRGCN is a separate branch with its own command structure.

Here's a more detailed look:

IRIN:
This is the larger of the two naval forces, and it focuses on traditional naval warfare, including submarines, frigates, and other surface combatants.

IRGCN:
The IRGCN focuses on defending Iran's territorial waters and coastal areas, often employing smaller, faster attack craft and potentially asymmetric warfare tactics.

Recent Developments:
Both naval branches have been expanding and modernizing their capabilities, including acquiring new submarines, missile-armed warships, and drone technology.

Global Presence:
While traditionally focused on the Persian Gulf, Iran has been expanding its naval presence, including sending ships to the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.

Submarine Fleet:
Iran possesses a significant submarine force, including both domestically produced and Soviet-era submarines.

(06-22-2025 01:31 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 10:55 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 10:49 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 10:43 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Btw, Elvis, you still are ignoring the comments about your statement that we should have used JDAMs instead of Tomahawks.

Are you sure you don't want to explain why we're wrong to think that was an incredibly stupid statement?

Or maybe average people saw it, and I missed it.

I made it pretty clear in this thread that B1 or B2 delivered JDAMs were much more economical that tomahawks, and that my speculation is that their inclusion is branch politics and the Navy basically not wanting to to be left out.

It would have been much more “economical” for obama to have NOT given Iran billions and billions of US taxpayer dollars.
Since you’re now selectively so budget conscious.

Iran did not receive taxpayer dollars under President Obama. What was given to Iran under the JCPOA was frozen Iranian assets -

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...iran-150-/

You’re so gullible

(06-21-2025 08:34 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  Well it's done, and hopefully it works out for good. With the info we have available, I'm not sure what I'd have done. President Trump of course knows much more than we do and I hope he made the right decision, I'm not second guessing him on a call where I don't know which way I'd have gone.

I do think he erred in exiting the Iranian nuclear deal in his 1st term, perhaps this could have been avoided. But that ship sailed years ago. We are where we are now and this may have been the best possible move to keep Iran from getting nuclear weapons, keep Israel safe and reduce conflict in the Middle East long term. God bless and protect our troops and please guide our leaders as they navigate these treacherous waters.

Great post

(06-22-2025 01:36 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 01:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 12:22 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 11:45 AM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

If they do that, it would fukc China much MUCH more than us.

And they not only want their nuclear program destroyed, but also their navy.

I didn't think Iran had much of a Navy, but in fact, they do.

Quote:Yes, Iran has a navy, and it's comprised of two main branches: the Islamic Republic of Iran Navy (IRIN) and the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps Navy (IRGCN). The IRIN is part of the regular Iranian military, while the IRGCN is a separate branch with its own command structure.

Here's a more detailed look:

IRIN:
This is the larger of the two naval forces, and it focuses on traditional naval warfare, including submarines, frigates, and other surface combatants.

IRGCN:
The IRGCN focuses on defending Iran's territorial waters and coastal areas, often employing smaller, faster attack craft and potentially asymmetric warfare tactics.

Recent Developments:
Both naval branches have been expanding and modernizing their capabilities, including acquiring new submarines, missile-armed warships, and drone technology.

Global Presence:
While traditionally focused on the Persian Gulf, Iran has been expanding its naval presence, including sending ships to the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.

Submarine Fleet:
Iran possesses a significant submarine force, including both domestically produced and Soviet-era submarines.

One does not want to underestimate the capacity of one's enemy, but overestimation is also dangerous. It is a thorny issue I am glad I do not have to address.

(06-22-2025 01:31 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 10:55 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 10:49 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 10:43 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Btw, Elvis, you still are ignoring the comments about your statement that we should have used JDAMs instead of Tomahawks.

Are you sure you don't want to explain why we're wrong to think that was an incredibly stupid statement?

Or maybe average people saw it, and I missed it.

I made it pretty clear in this thread that B1 or B2 delivered JDAMs were much more economical that tomahawks, and that my speculation is that their inclusion is branch politics and the Navy basically not wanting to to be left out.

It would have been much more “economical” for obama to have NOT given Iran billions and billions of US taxpayer dollars.
Since you’re now selectively so budget conscious.

Iran did not receive taxpayer dollars under President Obama. What was given to Iran under the JCPOA was frozen Iranian assets -

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...iran-150-/

That’s just not accurate and we’ll just agree to disagree but, Gamenole, you get a pass. You’re the only team player on your side of the political spectrum here.

(06-22-2025 01:28 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 10:44 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Forget about Iran for a moment. Putin can not be happy that the air defense systems he sold to Iran (some of their most sophisticated) did not detect the B2 bombers or their escorts. They basically flew into the heart of Iran and destroyed multiple sites and Iran was none the wiser.

Israel had already taken them out-a bunch last year and then the rest over the last few weeks.

Israel maintains they took out the Iranian air defense systems with no loss. I do not know if their statement is true, but moderate to severe losses certainly would not ave resulted in air supremacy enjoyed by Israel now.

The Libturds that post here are alarmed that we would bomb Iran's nuclear facilities while Germany, Turkey, England, France, are happy that we did. The only thing they're saying is the same thing Trump is saying to not make this a bigger incident and to come to the negotiating table.

Nato forces have all come on board. The only ones not happy are Pakistan and Russia. Pakistan because they too are musim and Russia because the Iranians are Americas enemy.

(06-22-2025 01:36 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 01:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 12:22 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 11:45 AM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

If they do that, it would fukc China much MUCH more than us.

And they not only want their nuclear program destroyed, but also their navy.

I didn't think Iran had much of a Navy, but in fact, they do.

Quote:Yes, Iran has a navy, and it's comprised of two main branches: the Islamic Republic of Iran Navy (IRIN) and the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps Navy (IRGCN). The IRIN is part of the regular Iranian military, while the IRGCN is a separate branch with its own command structure.

Here's a more detailed look:

IRIN:
This is the larger of the two naval forces, and it focuses on traditional naval warfare, including submarines, frigates, and other surface combatants.

IRGCN:
The IRGCN focuses on defending Iran's territorial waters and coastal areas, often employing smaller, faster attack craft and potentially asymmetric warfare tactics.

Recent Developments:
Both naval branches have been expanding and modernizing their capabilities, including acquiring new submarines, missile-armed warships, and drone technology.

Global Presence:
While traditionally focused on the Persian Gulf, Iran has been expanding its naval presence, including sending ships to the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.

Submarine Fleet:
Iran possesses a significant submarine force, including both domestically produced and Soviet-era submarines.

Does Iran really want to see her entire Navy smoked? They surely know that will be the cost of attempting to close the Straight of Hormuz. They can close it for a short period of time----but their navy getting dusted and their missile batteries along the cost getting turned into scrap metal will largely end their ability to close the Straight. They will probably lose a few more high ranking officials as well while that goes on.....a fact that is likely not lost on the top Iranian leaders tasked with making the ultimate decision on such matters.

Worst case--its only closed for a relatively short period of time while the Iranian military assets in the area are destroyed. Once its reasonably safe, I think we will see a restart of convoy style movement through the straight under a coalition naval escort until a full cease fire agreement is reached. Its not going to be the end of the world---but we could see a short term spike in energy prices due to the move.

They haven't lost a member of the military to Iran during this. I'd say that qualifies as air supremacy.

(06-22-2025 02:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 01:36 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 01:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 12:22 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 11:45 AM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

If they do that, it would fukc China much MUCH more than us.

And they not only want their nuclear program destroyed, but also their navy.

I didn't think Iran had much of a Navy, but in fact, they do.

Quote:Yes, Iran has a navy, and it's comprised of two main branches: the Islamic Republic of Iran Navy (IRIN) and the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps Navy (IRGCN). The IRIN is part of the regular Iranian military, while the IRGCN is a separate branch with its own command structure.

Here's a more detailed look:

IRIN:
This is the larger of the two naval forces, and it focuses on traditional naval warfare, including submarines, frigates, and other surface combatants.

IRGCN:
The IRGCN focuses on defending Iran's territorial waters and coastal areas, often employing smaller, faster attack craft and potentially asymmetric warfare tactics.

Recent Developments:
Both naval branches have been expanding and modernizing their capabilities, including acquiring new submarines, missile-armed warships, and drone technology.

Global Presence:
While traditionally focused on the Persian Gulf, Iran has been expanding its naval presence, including sending ships to the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.

Submarine Fleet:
Iran possesses a significant submarine force, including both domestically produced and Soviet-era submarines.

Does Iran really want to see her entire Navy smoked? They surely know that will be the cost of attempting to close the Straight of Hormuz. They can close it for a short period of time----but their navy getting dusted and their missile batteries along the cost getting turned into scrap metal will largely end their ability to close the Straight. They will probably lose a few more high ranking officials as well while that goes on.....a fact that is likely not lost on the top Iranian leaders tasked with making the ultimate decision on such matters.

Worst case--its only closed for a relatively short period of time while the Iranian military assets in the area are destroyed. Once its reasonably safe, I think we will see a restart of convoy style movement through the straight under a coalition naval escort until a full cease fire agreement is reached. Its not going to be the end of the world---but we could see a short term spike in energy prices due to the move.

We could sink their entire navy in less than a day, but the straight is narrow enough that they can attack ships with truck mounted missies from shore, or drones. Same playbook the houthis have, but better armed.

Without troops on the ground to secure the Iranian coast 50+ miles inland we will always have the occasional truck mounted anti ship missle get rolled out of a cave and launched.

It’s only 21 miles at the narrow point, no way to stay out of range.

(06-22-2025 02:20 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 02:04 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 01:36 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 01:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 12:22 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  If they do that, it would fukc China much MUCH more than us.

And they not only want their nuclear program destroyed, but also their navy.

I didn't think Iran had much of a Navy, but in fact, they do.

Quote:Yes, Iran has a navy, and it's comprised of two main branches: the Islamic Republic of Iran Navy (IRIN) and the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps Navy (IRGCN). The IRIN is part of the regular Iranian military, while the IRGCN is a separate branch with its own command structure.

Here's a more detailed look:

IRIN:
This is the larger of the two naval forces, and it focuses on traditional naval warfare, including submarines, frigates, and other surface combatants.

IRGCN:
The IRGCN focuses on defending Iran's territorial waters and coastal areas, often employing smaller, faster attack craft and potentially asymmetric warfare tactics.

Recent Developments:
Both naval branches have been expanding and modernizing their capabilities, including acquiring new submarines, missile-armed warships, and drone technology.

Global Presence:
While traditionally focused on the Persian Gulf, Iran has been expanding its naval presence, including sending ships to the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.

Submarine Fleet:
Iran possesses a significant submarine force, including both domestically produced and Soviet-era submarines.

Does Iran really want to see her entire Navy smoked? They surely know that will be the cost of attempting to close the Straight of Hormuz. They can close it for a short period of time----but their navy getting dusted and their missile batteries along the cost getting turned into scrap metal will largely end their ability to close the Straight. They will probably lose a few more high ranking officials as well while that goes on.....a fact that is likely not lost on the top Iranian leaders tasked with making the ultimate decision on such matters.

Worst case--its only closed for a relatively short period of time while the Iranian military assets in the area are destroyed. Once its reasonably safe, I think we will see a restart of convoy style movement through the straight under a coalition naval escort until a full cease fire agreement is reached. Its not going to be the end of the world---but we could see a short term spike in energy prices due to the move.

We could sink their entire navy in less than a day, but the straight is narrow enough that they can attack ships with truck mounted missies from shore, or drones. Same playbook the houthis have, but better armed.

Without troops on the ground to secure the Iranian coast 50+ miles inland we will always have the occasional truck mounted anti ship missle get rolled out of a cave and launched.

It’s only 21 miles at the narrow point, no way to stay out of range.

This will be dealt with using massive sanctions.

We are not sinking all of this in less than a day.

Elvis, you really need to back up and start your day over.

Quote:Iran has two main naval forces: the Islamic Republic of Iran Navy (IRIN) and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy (IRGCN).

The IRIN has approximately 100 vessels, including ships and submarines. The IRGCN has a much larger fleet of surface warfare vessels, including around 126, plus amphibious and auxiliary ships, according to Wikipedia.

According to Warpower: Iran, the IRIN has 97 hulls including surface combatants, offshore patrol/attack vessels, amphibious assault ships, and auxiliaries.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

Islamic Republic of Iran Navy (IRIN):

Includes frigates, corvettes, fast attack craft, patrol boats, and amphibious ships.

Also operates submarines and auxiliary ships.

According to World Directory of Modern Military Warships, the IRIN has 67 total units in its active naval inventory.

Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy (IRGCN):

Primarily operates a large number of smaller, faster, and more agile vessels.

Includes speedboats, patrol boats, and missile-equipped craft.

Also operates some amphibious and auxiliary ships.

According to Wikipedia, the IRGCN has around 126 surface warfare vessels, 5 amphibious vessels, and 3 auxiliary ships.

Quote:Iran has a submarine force of approximately 26 vessels, primarily under the control of the Islamic Republic of Iran Navy (IRIN), with some potentially utilized by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy (IRGC).

This force includes several Kilo-class submarines (known as Tareq-class in Iran), Fateh-class submarines, and numerous Ghadir-class mini-submarines. Iran does not possess nuclear-powered submarines, according to Euronews.com and Globe Composite Solutions.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

Kilo-class (Tareq-class):
Iran operates three of these Russian-built diesel-electric submarines, known for their ability to lay mines and launch cruise missiles.

Fateh-class:
Iran has two of these domestically produced coastal submarines.

Ghadir-class:
A large number of these mini-submarines are in service, designed for operations in shallow waters.

Other:
There's also mention of a prototype Besat-class submarine (also known as Qaaem).

We have drones for the banks of the straits.

(06-22-2025 12:54 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Next, we will be hearing if the bombers would have flown at a lower speed, they would have saved money on fuel.

Leftist judge ruling on speed limits for bombers incoming...