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(03-03-2023 09:24 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 09:13 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 08:36 PM)back2vinyl Wrote:  

(03-02-2023 09:18 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Sounds like Florida State wants out of the ACC sooner rather than later. Their legal team told the board that the exit fee would be about 120M, and a lot of the trustees response was "how many years would it take to recoup that?"

B10's academic snobbery will eliminate them as a destination. Does the SEC put the hammer down on UF and force them to go along (Texas A&M just provided the precedent) for the good of the conference? Or does UF (they probably carry a lot more clout than A&M) veto, and FSU ends up in the B12?

FSU has hit some hard times lately, but they are still a valuable property. They would be a big score for the Big 12, but I think the SEC (or less likely the B1G) would pick them up before that happened. FSU vs the top teams in either the SEC or B1G would be a television ratings bonanza.

Yeah FSU is far too of a prized possession for either SEC or Big Ten to let go. Big Ten snobbery isn’t PAC level. They have common sense in trying to keep up with the SEC in competition on the field too. Anywho, Florida State is R1 and ranks #55 in the U.S. News rankings. I think they’d fit in either just fine.

Now, out of the ACC if they do blow up, I think the Big 12 would have a realistic shot at Louisville, Pitt, and the big get would be Miami (FL) or Virginia Tech.

First things first, PAC deal and 4Cs.

Selfishly, I would take all four of those over any of the remaining PAC 12 schools. We have a much better fit geographically with them and historically have been conference mates with three of them. The Big 12 will obviously take the 4 schools that bring the most TV dollars, but those are who I would want.

I edited my post a bunch, but I agree if the Big 12 is able to add those 4 at some point, I couldn’t be happier as a UC fan outside Memphis getting in too.

For that possibility to happen I think the Big 12 needs to land at least two PAC schools and preferably the 4C. We should have that answer in the next month or two.

(03-03-2023 09:34 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 09:24 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 09:13 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 08:36 PM)back2vinyl Wrote:  

(03-02-2023 09:18 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Sounds like Florida State wants out of the ACC sooner rather than later. Their legal team told the board that the exit fee would be about 120M, and a lot of the trustees response was "how many years would it take to recoup that?"

B10's academic snobbery will eliminate them as a destination. Does the SEC put the hammer down on UF and force them to go along (Texas A&M just provided the precedent) for the good of the conference? Or does UF (they probably carry a lot more clout than A&M) veto, and FSU ends up in the B12?

FSU has hit some hard times lately, but they are still a valuable property. They would be a big score for the Big 12, but I think the SEC (or less likely the B1G) would pick them up before that happened. FSU vs the top teams in either the SEC or B1G would be a television ratings bonanza.

Yeah FSU is far too of a prized possession for either SEC or Big Ten to let go. Big Ten snobbery isn’t PAC level. They have common sense in trying to keep up with the SEC in competition on the field too. Anywho, Florida State is R1 and ranks #55 in the U.S. News rankings. I think they’d fit in either just fine.

Now, out of the ACC if they do blow up, I think the Big 12 would have a realistic shot at Louisville, Pitt, and the big get would be Miami (FL) or Virginia Tech.

First things first, PAC deal and 4Cs.

Selfishly, I would take all four of those over any of the remaining PAC 12 schools. We have a much better fit geographically with them and historically have been conference mates with three of them. The Big 12 will obviously take the 4 schools that bring the most TV dollars, but those are who I would want.

I edited my post a bunch, but I agree if the Big 12 is able to add those 4 at some point, I couldn’t be happier as a UC fan outside Memphis getting in too.

For that possibility to happen I think the Big 12 needs to land at least two PAC schools and preferably the 4C. We should have that answer in the next month or two.

The Big 12 would be dumber than a box of rocks if it goes to 20-24 teams. You're effectively diminishing your chances of putting multiple teams into the Playoff on top of splitting your media pot even more. At that point, we should just split into more regional 12-team conferences and say F-it.

(03-03-2023 09:45 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 09:34 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 09:24 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 09:13 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 08:36 PM)back2vinyl Wrote:  FSU has hit some hard times lately, but they are still a valuable property. They would be a big score for the Big 12, but I think the SEC (or less likely the B1G) would pick them up before that happened. FSU vs the top teams in either the SEC or B1G would be a television ratings bonanza.

Yeah FSU is far too of a prized possession for either SEC or Big Ten to let go. Big Ten snobbery isn’t PAC level. They have common sense in trying to keep up with the SEC in competition on the field too. Anywho, Florida State is R1 and ranks #55 in the U.S. News rankings. I think they’d fit in either just fine.

Now, out of the ACC if they do blow up, I think the Big 12 would have a realistic shot at Louisville, Pitt, and the big get would be Miami (FL) or Virginia Tech.

First things first, PAC deal and 4Cs.

Selfishly, I would take all four of those over any of the remaining PAC 12 schools. We have a much better fit geographically with them and historically have been conference mates with three of them. The Big 12 will obviously take the 4 schools that bring the most TV dollars, but those are who I would want.

I edited my post a bunch, but I agree if the Big 12 is able to add those 4 at some point, I couldn’t be happier as a UC fan outside Memphis getting in too.

For that possibility to happen I think the Big 12 needs to land at least two PAC schools and preferably the 4C. We should have that answer in the next month or two.

The Big 12 would be dumber than a box of rocks if it goes to 20-24 teams. You're effectively diminishing your chances of putting multiple teams into the Playoff on top of splitting your media pot even more. At that point, we should just split into more regional 12-team conferences and say F-it.

I think the scenario of both the 4C and ACC schools only happens if the SEC and Big Ten expand further. They both would likely be larger much larger than the 20 team Big 12 scenario and both the PAC and ACC would at least be kind of of dead if not fully.

Either way I want the Big 12 in the best position possible against both the PAC and ACC as we go into the future and there is so much talk of what the SEC and Big Ten will do next. The 4Cs definitely is the first part of that move.

Maybe every year the worst two teams in the SEC can be relegated to the Big Ten and the best two in the Big Ten can move up to the SEC.

Then the best two in the Big XII can go up to the Big Ten ...

And the best two in the ACC up to the Big XII ...

Etc.

Sorry. I have no interest in being in a 20-something team conference. Kind of done that before, and although it was great for UC at the time, I'd hope the Big XII doesn't overplay the expansion mantra.

(03-04-2023 08:00 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  Sorry. I have no interest in being in a 20-something team conference. Kind of done that before, and although it was great for UC at the time, I'd hope the Big XII doesn't overplay the expansion mantra.

We may not have a choice if the B1G/SEC expands to 20+ teams. The best way to stay relevant if you're not in a P2 conference will be a best-of-the-rest conference else you're at risk of being relocated to a lower division.

(03-04-2023 10:03 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 08:00 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  Sorry. I have no interest in being in a 20-something team conference. Kind of done that before, and although it was great for UC at the time, I'd hope the Big XII doesn't overplay the expansion mantra.

We may not have a choice if the B1G/SEC expands to 20+ teams. The best way to stay relevant if you're not in a P2 conference will be a best-of-the-rest conference else you're at risk of being relocated to a lower division.

I think there's some merit to letting some brands die. Would anyone miss Utah? We've already semi buried wsu and osu. Similarly, would anyone miss wake or gtech? Honestly, if you were apart the haves and didn't plan accordingly, I don't know if you deserve any more chances.

(03-04-2023 10:24 AM)eroc Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 10:03 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 08:00 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  Sorry. I have no interest in being in a 20-something team conference. Kind of done that before, and although it was great for UC at the time, I'd hope the Big XII doesn't overplay the expansion mantra.

We may not have a choice if the B1G/SEC expands to 20+ teams. The best way to stay relevant if you're not in a P2 conference will be a best-of-the-rest conference else you're at risk of being relocated to a lower division.

I think there's some merit to letting some brands die. Would anyone miss Utah? We've already semi buried wsu and osu. Similarly, would anyone miss wake or gtech? Honestly, if you were apart the haves and didn't plan accordingly, I don't know if you deserve any more chances.

I totally agree, several brands will be demoted back to a G5 level. However, let's say the Big 12 adds Arizona St., Arizona, Colorado, and Utah from the PAC and Louisville, Pittsburgh, VTech, and NC State or Georgia Tech. That would be a solid 20-team conference that wouldn't be too far behind the B1G in football competitively and probably would be the best MBB conference.

Imagine a 4x5 pod setup where Cincinnati is grouped with Louisville, WVU, Pittsburgh, and VTech for example. Those are all compelling regional matchups ratings-wise with plenty of accessible road trips.

(03-04-2023 10:24 AM)eroc Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 10:03 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 08:00 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  Sorry. I have no interest in being in a 20-something team conference. Kind of done that before, and although it was great for UC at the time, I'd hope the Big XII doesn't overplay the expansion mantra.

We may not have a choice if the B1G/SEC expands to 20+ teams. The best way to stay relevant if you're not in a P2 conference will be a best-of-the-rest conference else you're at risk of being relocated to a lower division.

I think there's some merit to letting some brands die. Would anyone miss Utah? We've already semi buried wsu and osu. Similarly, would anyone miss wake or gtech? Honestly, if you were apart the haves and didn't plan accordingly, I don't know if you deserve any more chances.

We just barely made it through the door before it closed like Indy sliding through the toomb. The "haves" list is rapidly shrinking. It benefits the Big 12 right now to kill the Pac 12 but it's a dangerous precedent to set and it doesn't give me an easy feeling knowing that any potential move from the Big 12 means a potential AQ bid being written out of the bylaws. How long before its just the SEC, Big 10, and G8?

(03-04-2023 08:00 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  Sorry. I have no interest in being in a 20-something team conference. Kind of done that before, and although it was great for UC at the time, I'd hope the Big XII doesn't overplay the expansion mantra.

I get it, believe me.

For football at least it would actually be like 2 10 team conferences with 9 conference games where the regular season champs face each other before the bowl season. That wouldn't bother me too much.

Would mean less buy games and scheduling headaches for basketball if you increase the conference slate with "free" games there.

It could grow on me.

(03-04-2023 10:59 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  We just barely made it through the door before it closed like Indy sliding through the toomb. The "haves" list is rapidly shrinking. It benefits the Big 12 right now to kill the Pac 12 but it's a dangerous precedent to set and it doesn't give me an easy feeling knowing that any potential move from the Big 12 means a potential AQ bid being written out of the bylaws. How long before its just the SEC, Big 10, and G8?

It's already inevitable. Cincinnati's only hope of keeping up is sneaking into a 24-team SEC and that is a longshot at best. Performing well in CFB and MBB over these next few decades is critical. The Big 12 bid was important but it's short-term security and access at best. We need to increase revenue, fan support, TV ratings, and post-season appearances in both sports to have any hope of keeping up.

The networks, NIL, and a streaming future are driving CFB and MBB further and further towards a professional model a la the NFL and NBA. Cincinnati is a program that if a P2 split were to happen today, we'd be left out. Luckily the current Big 12 gives us a chance to plan for tomorrow, and a bigger Big 12 gives us another week.

Just another day of being a Bearcat fan. We are always treading water trying not to drown and hoping to get saved.

(03-04-2023 11:23 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 08:00 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  Sorry. I have no interest in being in a 20-something team conference. Kind of done that before, and although it was great for UC at the time, I'd hope the Big XII doesn't overplay the expansion mantra.

I get it, believe me.

For football at least it would actually be like 2 10 team conferences with 9 conference games where the regular season champs face each other before the bowl season. That wouldn't bother me too much.

Would mean less buy games and scheduling headaches for basketball if you increase the conference slate with "free" games there.

It could grow on me.

I would take any number if it means being in conference with current Big 12/PAC/ACC schools compares to the AAC dregs.

(03-04-2023 10:59 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 10:24 AM)eroc Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 10:03 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 08:00 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  Sorry. I have no interest in being in a 20-something team conference. Kind of done that before, and although it was great for UC at the time, I'd hope the Big XII doesn't overplay the expansion mantra.

We may not have a choice if the B1G/SEC expands to 20+ teams. The best way to stay relevant if you're not in a P2 conference will be a best-of-the-rest conference else you're at risk of being relocated to a lower division.

I think there's some merit to letting some brands die. Would anyone miss Utah? We've already semi buried wsu and osu. Similarly, would anyone miss wake or gtech? Honestly, if you were apart the haves and didn't plan accordingly, I don't know if you deserve any more chances.

We just barely made it through the door before it closed like Indy sliding through the toomb. The "haves" list is rapidly shrinking. It benefits the Big 12 right now to kill the Pac 12 but it's a dangerous precedent to set and it doesn't give me an easy feeling knowing that any potential move from the Big 12 means a potential AQ bid being written out of the bylaws. How long before its just the SEC, Big 10, and G8?

There has been plenty of convo about those who are deserving vs. those who aren't across the years and i'm not going to feel the slightest bit of sympathy for those programs who failed to capitalize on their status while they had it. We haven't even played a game in the b12 yet so perhaps this entire discussion is somewhat out of turn but as long as our administration does what it takes to make sure we are on the right side of the have's/have not debate (to the extent of their influence), i'm good with how this all plays out. We were never really in control in the first place and yet somehow we find ourselves about to join the club while an entire conference who dined out on p5 status in various forms and iterations for decades may suddenly find themselves homeless.

FWIW, if you're concerned about precedent, maybe the unraveling of not one but potentially two p5 conferences will initiate some action to rethink the path cfb is travelling.

Something interesting I heard yesterday as to the reasoning behind Gonzaga to the Big XII is being discussed.....Yormack is interested in the next round of tv talks ( 2030-2031 ) in splitting up the football and basketball contracts....one for football and one for basketball, interesting......

(03-06-2023 11:55 AM)CincyBro Wrote:  Something interesting I heard yesterday as to the reasoning behind Gonzaga to the Big XII is being discussed.....Yormack is interested in the next round of tv talks ( 2030-2031 ) in splitting up the football and basketball contracts....one for football and one for basketball, interesting......

That could be very messy...

(03-06-2023 12:37 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(03-06-2023 11:55 AM)CincyBro Wrote:  Something interesting I heard yesterday as to the reasoning behind Gonzaga to the Big XII is being discussed.....Yormack is interested in the next round of tv talks ( 2030-2031 ) in splitting up the football and basketball contracts....one for football and one for basketball, interesting......

That could be very messy...

I agree.

If true though that would indicate that Gonzaga isn’t the only basketball (non-FBS football) school that will be moving to the Big 12.

(03-06-2023 12:51 PM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(03-06-2023 12:37 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(03-06-2023 11:55 AM)CincyBro Wrote:  Something interesting I heard yesterday as to the reasoning behind Gonzaga to the Big XII is being discussed.....Yormack is interested in the next round of tv talks ( 2030-2031 ) in splitting up the football and basketball contracts....one for football and one for basketball, interesting......

That could be very messy...

I agree.

If true though that would indicate that Gonzaga isn’t the only basketball (non-FBS football) school that will be moving to the Big 12.

My first thought is, that doesn't bode well for the "basketball only" schools in terms of contract value. On the other hand, it makes some sense as the value offering is totally different for telecasts of P5 football compared with D1 basketball. Specifically, national vs. regional fanbases and audience sizes.

(03-04-2023 10:37 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 10:24 AM)eroc Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 10:03 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 08:00 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  Sorry. I have no interest in being in a 20-something team conference. Kind of done that before, and although it was great for UC at the time, I'd hope the Big XII doesn't overplay the expansion mantra.

We may not have a choice if the B1G/SEC expands to 20+ teams. The best way to stay relevant if you're not in a P2 conference will be a best-of-the-rest conference else you're at risk of being relocated to a lower division.

I think there's some merit to letting some brands die. Would anyone miss Utah? We've already semi buried wsu and osu. Similarly, would anyone miss wake or gtech? Honestly, if you were apart the haves and didn't plan accordingly, I don't know if you deserve any more chances.

I totally agree, several brands will be demoted back to a G5 level. However, let's say the Big 12 adds Arizona St., Arizona, Colorado, and Utah from the PAC and Louisville, Pittsburgh, VTech, and NC State or Georgia Tech. That would be a solid 20-team conference that wouldn't be too far behind the B1G in football competitively and probably would be the best MBB conference.

Imagine a 4x5 pod setup where Cincinnati is grouped with Louisville, WVU, Pittsburgh, and VTech for example. Those are all compelling regional matchups ratings-wise with plenty of accessible road trips.

For my own selfish reasons, I'd like to see Pitt and Louisville in the Big-12. Adding Metro Conference mate VTech would be icing on the cake.

(03-06-2023 01:57 PM)back2vinyl Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 10:37 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 10:24 AM)eroc Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 10:03 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 08:00 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  Sorry. I have no interest in being in a 20-something team conference. Kind of done that before, and although it was great for UC at the time, I'd hope the Big XII doesn't overplay the expansion mantra.

We may not have a choice if the B1G/SEC expands to 20+ teams. The best way to stay relevant if you're not in a P2 conference will be a best-of-the-rest conference else you're at risk of being relocated to a lower division.

I think there's some merit to letting some brands die. Would anyone miss Utah? We've already semi buried wsu and osu. Similarly, would anyone miss wake or gtech? Honestly, if you were apart the haves and didn't plan accordingly, I don't know if you deserve any more chances.

I totally agree, several brands will be demoted back to a G5 level. However, let's say the Big 12 adds Arizona St., Arizona, Colorado, and Utah from the PAC and Louisville, Pittsburgh, VTech, and NC State or Georgia Tech. That would be a solid 20-team conference that wouldn't be too far behind the B1G in football competitively and probably would be the best MBB conference.

Imagine a 4x5 pod setup where Cincinnati is grouped with Louisville, WVU, Pittsburgh, and VTech for example. Those are all compelling regional matchups ratings-wise with plenty of accessible road trips.

For my own selfish reasons, I'd like to see Pitt and Louisville in the Big-12. Adding Metro Conference mate VTech would be icing on the cake.

Of course I'm going to say this, but...

The B12 really screwed up by not grabbing UC and Louisville when they got WV.

(03-06-2023 02:03 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(03-06-2023 01:57 PM)back2vinyl Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 10:37 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 10:24 AM)eroc Wrote:  

(03-04-2023 10:03 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  We may not have a choice if the B1G/SEC expands to 20+ teams. The best way to stay relevant if you're not in a P2 conference will be a best-of-the-rest conference else you're at risk of being relocated to a lower division.

I think there's some merit to letting some brands die. Would anyone miss Utah? We've already semi buried wsu and osu. Similarly, would anyone miss wake or gtech? Honestly, if you were apart the haves and didn't plan accordingly, I don't know if you deserve any more chances.

I totally agree, several brands will be demoted back to a G5 level. However, let's say the Big 12 adds Arizona St., Arizona, Colorado, and Utah from the PAC and Louisville, Pittsburgh, VTech, and NC State or Georgia Tech. That would be a solid 20-team conference that wouldn't be too far behind the B1G in football competitively and probably would be the best MBB conference.

Imagine a 4x5 pod setup where Cincinnati is grouped with Louisville, WVU, Pittsburgh, and VTech for example. Those are all compelling regional matchups ratings-wise with plenty of accessible road trips.

For my own selfish reasons, I'd like to see Pitt and Louisville in the Big-12. Adding Metro Conference mate VTech would be icing on the cake.

Of course I'm going to say this, but...

The B12 really screwed up by not grabbing UC and Louisville when they got WV.

Definitely.

Aside for the benefits of the natural rivalries between those three, what it would have done is cut the head off the snake of conference realignment back in 2011-2012 and provided overall stability. UConn would have slotted over to the ACC. There would have been no AAC to give Houston and UCF the opportunity to raise their profiles. They'd still be in CUSA with ECU, SMU, Tulsa, Southern Miss (who would not have left to go to the SBC), etc. The only casualty would have been USF, who would have slotted in nicely with the old CUSA.