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(02-10-2023 05:12 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 04:59 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 03:07 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Yep. If you want to see poverty, drive along Ohio State Route 7 from just south of East Liverpool down to Marietta. You'll pass through towns like Steubenville, Martins Ferry, Bellaire and Hannibal. The highway rides along the Ohio River and West Virginia Route 2. Hit up all of those towns on both sides of the river (Chester, Weirton, Wheeling). They make Allentown look like Paris.

Finally something worthy to post about after a long absence. Clifton - you just outlined my hometown during my early years. Went to grade school in Warwood. Cousins in Martins Ferry. Grandparents from Bethlehem and McMechen. I know all those towns from St. Clairsville, northeast to Weirton, down south to Moundsville, and east to Dallas Pike. Known by the locals as The Valley. Both Mom and Dad were from the Valley.

Wheeling was pretty vibrant during the 70s, but the steel mills and banks left town. Even the Jamboree downtown is a distant memory. The "Wheeling Feeling" is very sad now.

I hear you moved as far away from rath as possible while staying in the eastern timezone.

I did last April. Building a house 15 miles from Anna Maria Island - 20 miles from St. Pete Beach.

(02-10-2023 07:00 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 05:12 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 04:59 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 03:07 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Yep. If you want to see poverty, drive along Ohio State Route 7 from just south of East Liverpool down to Marietta. You'll pass through towns like Steubenville, Martins Ferry, Bellaire and Hannibal. The highway rides along the Ohio River and West Virginia Route 2. Hit up all of those towns on both sides of the river (Chester, Weirton, Wheeling). They make Allentown look like Paris.

Finally something worthy to post about after a long absence. Clifton - you just outlined my hometown during my early years. Went to grade school in Warwood. Cousins in Martins Ferry. Grandparents from Bethlehem and McMechen. I know all those towns from St. Clairsville, northeast to Weirton, down south to Moundsville, and east to Dallas Pike. Known by the locals as The Valley. Both Mom and Dad were from the Valley.

Wheeling was pretty vibrant during the 70s, but the steel mills and banks left town. Even the Jamboree downtown is a distant memory. The "Wheeling Feeling" is very sad now.

I hear you moved as far away from rath as possible while staying in the eastern timezone.

I did last April. Building a house 15 miles from Anna Maria Island - 20 miles from St. Pete Beach.

Sounds delightful

(02-10-2023 02:49 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  Please look at a map!! Allentown, PA is nowhere close to the population centers of WV, including Charleston, Huntington and to lesser population communities, Wheeling and Parkersburg. It’s almost 450-500 miles from southern West Virginia.

Allentown is only 60 miles from Philly, 75 miles from northern New Jersey, home to numerous Fortune 500 corporation headquarters and about 100 miles to New York City. Allentown has become in some respects an exurban residential area for Philly, northern NJ and NYC. Allentown also has a number of Fortune 1000 companies with major operations in the area, commonly known as the Lehigh Valley. These include AT&T, Mack Trucks, Air Products, Lutron and Guardian Life Insurance.

Dude it was just a comparison of another post industrial city that went to waste due to reliance on dying manufacturing industries. It's a good story of recovery since, as your post highlights. The Lehigh Valley health network looks impressive too. My drive back from the east coast includes Allentown and WVU. Once you leave the east coast cities like Philly, NY, or Jersey, Allentown marks what I'd consider the start of the industrialized Midwest. They still have a skyline of factory smokestacks to go along with what is now a strong downtown center. Pennsylvania is kinda that historical link between settlements out in the Ohio valley region.

(02-10-2023 05:16 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 04:59 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 03:07 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Yep. If you want to see poverty, drive along Ohio State Route 7 from just south of East Liverpool down to Marietta. You'll pass through towns like Steubenville, Martins Ferry, Bellaire and Hannibal. The highway rides along the Ohio River and West Virginia Route 2. Hit up all of those towns on both sides of the river (Chester, Weirton, Wheeling). They make Allentown look like Paris.

Finally something worthy to post about after a long absence. Clifton - you just outlined my hometown during my early years. Went to grade school in Warwood. Cousins in Martins Ferry. Grandparents from Bethlehem and McMechen. I know all those towns from St. Clairsville, northeast to Weirton, down south to Moundsville, and east to Dallas Pike. Known by the locals as The Valley. Both Mom and Dad were from the Valley.

Wheeling was pretty vibrant during the 70s, but the steel mills and banks left town. Even the Jamboree downtown is a distant memory. The "Wheeling Feeling" is very sad now.

My aunt Sherry was formerly the mayor of Warwood. All this talk of the Valley is making me crave DiCarlo’s pizza.

Fun fact about Warwood. One of the town's favorite sons was elected to the NFL Hall of Fame last night. #54 of the Dallas Cowboys, Chuck Howley went to high school in Warwood. Nicknamed "Bunny", he went on to play at WVU.

He has always been my favorite trivia question - especially for Cowboys fans. The only Super Bowl MVP ever on a losing team. Bunny had two interceptions and a fumble recovery in their loss to the Colts in Super Bowl V. Former Bearcat Jim O'Brien made the game winning 32 yard field goal with 5 seconds left for the Colts 16-13 win.

(02-10-2023 06:55 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 05:35 PM)glacier_dropsy Wrote:  The deFelice near Shadyside closed, but the one in Moundsville still gets it done, if you can appreciate a medium thick crust with an olive oil crunch at the bottom.

Glacier- I have a lot of family in Shadyside and further down the river into Monroe County and across the river in Moundsville and New Martinsville. Heck, your wife and I might be related.

She is a Badia, lots of Italians down that way.

(02-10-2023 06:55 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 05:35 PM)glacier_dropsy Wrote:  The deFelice near Shadyside closed, but the one in Moundsville still gets it done, if you can appreciate a medium thick crust with an olive oil crunch at the bottom.

Glacier- I have a lot of family in Shadyside and further down the river into Monroe County and across the river in Moundsville and New Martinsville. Heck, your wife and I might be related.

She is a Badia, lots of Italians down that way

I have played quite a few games of Bocci at the Sons of Italy in Belaire, Mostly on Sundays when I need to drive my little family home.

Allentown has more Puerto Ricans than San Juan.

(02-10-2023 03:03 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 01:46 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 11:57 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  That's balogna.

Geographically, West Virginia is better endowed than Switzerland.

WV has about 50% more land, but Switzerland has 5 times as many people.

Switzerland is more mountainous than WV, but Switzerland's production of minerals and ores is trivial.

Neither produces much grain; Switzerland has a larger farming sector but this is only because the government subsidizes it heavily ($9 billion in agricultural production requires subsidies estimated between $2.5 billion and $3 billion).

Also, and this is a huge difference: Switzerland has no navigable rivers. None. West Virginia has the Ohio River, giving West Virginia inland ports with shipping access to anywhere in the world.

And yet the Swiss are among the richest country in Europe.

West Virginia does not have Switzerland's greatest advantage.

Switzerland is smack dab in the middle of a continent that has seen devastating war for the last hundred years, but Switzerland itself has not been involved (due to the terrain and to the lack of resources).

Therefore, Switzerland was the safest place in Europe to park your money for centuries. And it has profited immensely from the arrangement.

Fine, if you don't want to say Switzerland, you could say Israel. Or Singapore. Or Japan.

Natural resources don't make a population wealthy, healthy, and wise. The people do that (as long as the government gets out of the way).

By the way, WV is actually wealthier than any of those other places, by a wide margin. But that's because the US government stays out of the people's way better than all other governments.

Are you saying WV GDP is more than the countries you mentioned?

(02-10-2023 11:40 PM)ZCat Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 03:03 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 01:46 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 11:57 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  That's balogna.

Geographically, West Virginia is better endowed than Switzerland.

WV has about 50% more land, but Switzerland has 5 times as many people.

Switzerland is more mountainous than WV, but Switzerland's production of minerals and ores is trivial.

Neither produces much grain; Switzerland has a larger farming sector but this is only because the government subsidizes it heavily ($9 billion in agricultural production requires subsidies estimated between $2.5 billion and $3 billion).

Also, and this is a huge difference: Switzerland has no navigable rivers. None. West Virginia has the Ohio River, giving West Virginia inland ports with shipping access to anywhere in the world.

And yet the Swiss are among the richest country in Europe.

West Virginia does not have Switzerland's greatest advantage.

Switzerland is smack dab in the middle of a continent that has seen devastating war for the last hundred years, but Switzerland itself has not been involved (due to the terrain and to the lack of resources).

Therefore, Switzerland was the safest place in Europe to park your money for centuries. And it has profited immensely from the arrangement.

Fine, if you don't want to say Switzerland, you could say Israel. Or Singapore. Or Japan.

Natural resources don't make a population wealthy, healthy, and wise. The people do that (as long as the government gets out of the way).

By the way, WV is actually wealthier than any of those other places, by a wide margin. But that's because the US government stays out of the people's way better than all other governments.

Are you saying WV GDP is more than the countries you mentioned?

If he is...yikers...

(02-10-2023 08:06 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 05:16 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 04:59 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 03:07 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Yep. If you want to see poverty, drive along Ohio State Route 7 from just south of East Liverpool down to Marietta. You'll pass through towns like Steubenville, Martins Ferry, Bellaire and Hannibal. The highway rides along the Ohio River and West Virginia Route 2. Hit up all of those towns on both sides of the river (Chester, Weirton, Wheeling). They make Allentown look like Paris.

Finally something worthy to post about after a long absence. Clifton - you just outlined my hometown during my early years. Went to grade school in Warwood. Cousins in Martins Ferry. Grandparents from Bethlehem and McMechen. I know all those towns from St. Clairsville, northeast to Weirton, down south to Moundsville, and east to Dallas Pike. Known by the locals as The Valley. Both Mom and Dad were from the Valley.

Wheeling was pretty vibrant during the 70s, but the steel mills and banks left town. Even the Jamboree downtown is a distant memory. The "Wheeling Feeling" is very sad now.

My aunt Sherry was formerly the mayor of Warwood. All this talk of the Valley is making me crave DiCarlo’s pizza.

Fun fact about Warwood. One of the town's favorite sons was elected to the NFL Hall of Fame last night. #54 of the Dallas Cowboys, Chuck Howley went to high school in Warwood. Nicknamed "Bunny", he went on to play at WVU.

He has always been my favorite trivia question - especially for Cowboys fans. The only Super Bowl MVP ever on a losing team. Bunny had two interceptions and a fumble recovery in their loss to the Colts in Super Bowl V. Former Bearcat Jim O'Brien made the game winning 32 yard field goal with 5 seconds left for the Colts 16-13 win.

My aunt, the former mayor, is Chuck Howley’s niece. The family is beyond ecstatic that he has finally been elected to the HOF.

My cousin Brad also played at WVU.

(02-10-2023 03:03 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 01:46 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 11:57 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  That's balogna.

Geographically, West Virginia is better endowed than Switzerland.

WV has about 50% more land, but Switzerland has 5 times as many people.

Switzerland is more mountainous than WV, but Switzerland's production of minerals and ores is trivial.

Neither produces much grain; Switzerland has a larger farming sector but this is only because the government subsidizes it heavily ($9 billion in agricultural production requires subsidies estimated between $2.5 billion and $3 billion).

Also, and this is a huge difference: Switzerland has no navigable rivers. None. West Virginia has the Ohio River, giving West Virginia inland ports with shipping access to anywhere in the world.

And yet the Swiss are among the richest country in Europe.

West Virginia does not have Switzerland's greatest advantage.

Switzerland is smack dab in the middle of a continent that has seen devastating war for the last hundred years, but Switzerland itself has not been involved (due to the terrain and to the lack of resources).

Therefore, Switzerland was the safest place in Europe to park your money for centuries. And it has profited immensely from the arrangement.

Fine, if you don't want to say Switzerland, you could say Israel. Or Singapore. Or Japan.

Natural resources don't make a population wealthy, healthy, and wise. The people do that (as long as the government gets out of the way).

By the way, WV is actually wealthier than any of those other places, by a wide margin. But that's because the US government stays out of the people's way better than all other governments.

Hardly. When Senator Robert Byrd was alive, the feds pumped tons of money into West Virginia. It was, and remains, a welfare state, taking in far more than it contributes to federal coffers.

(02-10-2023 07:00 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 05:12 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 04:59 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 03:07 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Yep. If you want to see poverty, drive along Ohio State Route 7 from just south of East Liverpool down to Marietta. You'll pass through towns like Steubenville, Martins Ferry, Bellaire and Hannibal. The highway rides along the Ohio River and West Virginia Route 2. Hit up all of those towns on both sides of the river (Chester, Weirton, Wheeling). They make Allentown look like Paris.

Finally something worthy to post about after a long absence. Clifton - you just outlined my hometown during my early years. Went to grade school in Warwood. Cousins in Martins Ferry. Grandparents from Bethlehem and McMechen. I know all those towns from St. Clairsville, northeast to Weirton, down south to Moundsville, and east to Dallas Pike. Known by the locals as The Valley. Both Mom and Dad were from the Valley.

Wheeling was pretty vibrant during the 70s, but the steel mills and banks left town. Even the Jamboree downtown is a distant memory. The "Wheeling Feeling" is very sad now.

I hear you moved as far away from rath as possible while staying in the eastern timezone.

I did last April. Building a house 15 miles from Anna Maria Island - 20 miles from St. Pete Beach.

He knows I do lunch and cocktails on Anna Maria every winter.

I'm like the Lidless Eye Of Sauron. There is no escaping my gaze

(02-11-2023 11:25 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 07:00 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 05:12 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 04:59 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 03:07 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Yep. If you want to see poverty, drive along Ohio State Route 7 from just south of East Liverpool down to Marietta. You'll pass through towns like Steubenville, Martins Ferry, Bellaire and Hannibal. The highway rides along the Ohio River and West Virginia Route 2. Hit up all of those towns on both sides of the river (Chester, Weirton, Wheeling). They make Allentown look like Paris.

Finally something worthy to post about after a long absence. Clifton - you just outlined my hometown during my early years. Went to grade school in Warwood. Cousins in Martins Ferry. Grandparents from Bethlehem and McMechen. I know all those towns from St. Clairsville, northeast to Weirton, down south to Moundsville, and east to Dallas Pike. Known by the locals as The Valley. Both Mom and Dad were from the Valley.

Wheeling was pretty vibrant during the 70s, but the steel mills and banks left town. Even the Jamboree downtown is a distant memory. The "Wheeling Feeling" is very sad now.

I hear you moved as far away from rath as possible while staying in the eastern timezone.

I did last April. Building a house 15 miles from Anna Maria Island - 20 miles from St. Pete Beach.

He knows I do lunch and cocktails on Anna Maria every winter.

I'm like the Lidless Eye Of Sauron. There is no escaping my gaze

Sounds like Florida State wants out of the ACC sooner rather than later. Their legal team told the board that the exit fee would be about 120M, and a lot of the trustees response was "how many years would it take to recoup that?"

B10's academic snobbery will eliminate them as a destination. Does the SEC put the hammer down on UF and force them to go along (Texas A&M just provided the precedent) for the good of the conference? Or does UF (they probably carry a lot more clout than A&M) veto, and FSU ends up in the B12?

(03-02-2023 09:18 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Sounds like Florida State wants out of the ACC sooner rather than later. Their legal team told the board that the exit fee would be about 120M, and a lot of the trustees response was "how many years would it take to recoup that?"

B10's academic snobbery will eliminate them as a destination. Does the SEC put the hammer down on UF and force them to go along (Texas A&M just provided the precedent) for the good of the conference? Or does UF (they probably carry a lot more clout than A&M) veto, and FSU ends up in the B12?

It'll be interesting, because that's just a guess at what a settlement would be. At the moment, the GoR for the ACC basically renders a move financially catastrophic because FSU wouldn't be able to receive any media rights money from a deal outside of the ACC's until 2036. Nobody has tested a GoR, but it sure as hell is looking like there might be a couple of schools doing so here soon. Either that, or the Big Ten and SEC just make a move to get enough schools out to make a vote for dissolution possible (would need at least 8 full members for that).

(03-02-2023 09:18 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Sounds like Florida State wants out of the ACC sooner rather than later. Their legal team told the board that the exit fee would be about 120M, and a lot of the trustees response was "how many years would it take to recoup that?"

B10's academic snobbery will eliminate them as a destination. Does the SEC put the hammer down on UF and force them to go along (Texas A&M just provided the precedent) for the good of the conference? Or does UF (they probably carry a lot more clout than A&M) veto, and FSU ends up in the B12?

Bolded, while I'd welcome that, I think it's highly unlikely. B10 or SEC money would be FSU's reason to spend nine figures to get out of a current P5 conference. If FSU is valuable enough as a property in 2023 for ESPN/Fox to help foot the bill by dramatically increasing the B12 media package let's have at it.

I still believe it will be AZ and ASU moving to the Big 12 very soon. Possibly UT and CO too. The Pac 12 appears about ready to implode the way the Big East did. The B10 pulled the cornerstones out (UCLA, USC) much the way the SEC took TX and OK. Thankfully, the B12 responded in a much more positive manner, with thoughtful, but quick expansion, hiring of a media savvy commissioner, and locking down ESPN/Fox for maximum exposure. For maybe the first time, I feel UC wound up on the right side of the realignment ledger.

(03-02-2023 10:13 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(03-02-2023 09:18 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Sounds like Florida State wants out of the ACC sooner rather than later. Their legal team told the board that the exit fee would be about 120M, and a lot of the trustees response was "how many years would it take to recoup that?"

B10's academic snobbery will eliminate them as a destination. Does the SEC put the hammer down on UF and force them to go along (Texas A&M just provided the precedent) for the good of the conference? Or does UF (they probably carry a lot more clout than A&M) veto, and FSU ends up in the B12?

It'll be interesting, because that's just a guess at what a settlement would be. At the moment, the GoR for the ACC basically renders a move financially catastrophic because FSU wouldn't be able to receive any media rights money from a deal outside of the ACC's until 2036. Nobody has tested a GoR, but it sure as hell is looking like there might be a couple of schools doing so here soon. Either that, or the Big Ten and SEC just make a move to get enough schools out to make a vote for dissolution possible (would need at least 8 full members for that).

As a law dog, I can't wait to have someone litigate the GOR for the first time. It's chocked full of really interesting legal arguments on both sides.

Both sides are terrified of grabbing the third rail since they aren't sure if the current is turned on or not.

(03-02-2023 09:18 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Sounds like Florida State wants out of the ACC sooner rather than later. Their legal team told the board that the exit fee would be about 120M, and a lot of the trustees response was "how many years would it take to recoup that?"

B10's academic snobbery will eliminate them as a destination. Does the SEC put the hammer down on UF and force them to go along (Texas A&M just provided the precedent) for the good of the conference? Or does UF (they probably carry a lot more clout than A&M) veto, and FSU ends up in the B12?

FSU has hit some hard times lately, but they are still a valuable property. They would be a big score for the Big 12, but I think the SEC (or less likely the B1G) would pick them up before that happened. FSU vs the top teams in either the SEC or B1G would be a television ratings bonanza.

(03-03-2023 08:36 PM)back2vinyl Wrote:  

(03-02-2023 09:18 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Sounds like Florida State wants out of the ACC sooner rather than later. Their legal team told the board that the exit fee would be about 120M, and a lot of the trustees response was "how many years would it take to recoup that?"

B10's academic snobbery will eliminate them as a destination. Does the SEC put the hammer down on UF and force them to go along (Texas A&M just provided the precedent) for the good of the conference? Or does UF (they probably carry a lot more clout than A&M) veto, and FSU ends up in the B12?

FSU has hit some hard times lately, but they are still a valuable property. They would be a big score for the Big 12, but I think the SEC (or less likely the B1G) would pick them up before that happened. FSU vs the top teams in either the SEC or B1G would be a television ratings bonanza.

Yeah FSU is far too of a prized possession for either SEC or Big Ten to let go. Big Ten snobbery isn’t PAC level. They have common sense in trying to keep up with the SEC in competition on the field too. Anywho, Florida State is R1 and ranks #55 in the U.S. News rankings. I think they’d fit in either just fine.

If I’m the Big Ten, I’m going after FSU, ND, UNC, and Virginia before worrying about an Oregon or Washington. The only way I add Stanford or Cal is if ND request it to join but they would already have USC, Michigan, and FSU rivalries so can pipe it in such a scenario.

If I’m the SEC, I’m going after FSU, Clemson, UNC, and one of Virginia, Virginia Tech, or Miami FL to truly lock down the SE.

Now, out of the ACC if they do blow up, I think the Big 12 would have a realistic shot at Louisville, Pitt, and the big get would be Miami (FL) or Virginia Tech. I’m not huge on NC State or Georgia Tech but I’d understand it. Duke for basketball I guess but don’t love them either.

First things first, PAC deal and 4Cs for the Big 12.

(03-03-2023 09:13 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(03-03-2023 08:36 PM)back2vinyl Wrote:  

(03-02-2023 09:18 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Sounds like Florida State wants out of the ACC sooner rather than later. Their legal team told the board that the exit fee would be about 120M, and a lot of the trustees response was "how many years would it take to recoup that?"

B10's academic snobbery will eliminate them as a destination. Does the SEC put the hammer down on UF and force them to go along (Texas A&M just provided the precedent) for the good of the conference? Or does UF (they probably carry a lot more clout than A&M) veto, and FSU ends up in the B12?

FSU has hit some hard times lately, but they are still a valuable property. They would be a big score for the Big 12, but I think the SEC (or less likely the B1G) would pick them up before that happened. FSU vs the top teams in either the SEC or B1G would be a television ratings bonanza.

Yeah FSU is far too of a prized possession for either SEC or Big Ten to let go. Big Ten snobbery isn’t PAC level. They have common sense in trying to keep up with the SEC in competition on the field too. Anywho, Florida State is R1 and ranks #55 in the U.S. News rankings. I think they’d fit in either just fine.

Now, out of the ACC if they do blow up, I think the Big 12 would have a realistic shot at Louisville, Pitt, and the big get would be Miami (FL) or Virginia Tech.

First things first, PAC deal and 4Cs.

Selfishly, I would take all four of those over any of the remaining PAC 12 schools. We have a much better fit geographically with them and historically have been conference mates with three of them. The Big 12 will obviously take the 4 schools that bring the most TV dollars, but those are who I would want.