(01-01-2021 04:21 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 03:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 03:00 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(12-31-2020 03:29 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  In my opinion, the league is perfectly positioned for a growth spurt. What do they gain? Greater notoriety in their own sphere, but adding a few more stalwart programs could really give them some attention back East beyond just everyone tuning in for Gonzaga. Boise State basketball has been getting better and they're a recognizable brand. San Diego State would be in the same category...assuming there's a way to get them into the AAC as well for a football deal. What if Seattle could be talked into going back?

The WCC is in a position to become a more recognizable force in basketball.

Boise State is a football brand, not a basketball brand. Boise State brings nothing to the WCC. In November of 2018, they lost at home to Idaho State in basketball, 72-70. They paid Idaho State $90,000 to drive down to Boise and take their money and a win. Four days earlier, Idaho State lost at Gonzaga, 120-79.

Gonzaga has not played Boise State in basketball in 20 years. They do not have much in common. Gonzaga is private and has a better academic reputation. Gonzaga does not play football. Boise State does not have a men’s soccer or baseball team, a couple of important sports in an Olympic sports league.

Boise State has lost at least one game to each conference in the west over the past two seasons. Gonzaga is great in basketball. Boise State is okay. There are much better candidates in the west than Boise State if the WCC is interested in expansion.

Boise would probably be the third or 4th best program in the WCC if they joined. Zags, BYU, and St Marys would all be considered better. In fact, I suspect Boise would be in the top 3 depending on the year. Boise is 6-1 this year including a win over a 9-2 BYU team. Boise has won 20 games a year every season but one since 2012. Boise would be a solid upper tier addition to the WCC. So, the Boise program would be a nice addition for the WCC---the problem is--as others have mentioned---Boise isnt really a great institutional fit.

That said, the idea of adding solid quality upper tier depth to the WCC while subtracting quality basketball depth from the MW might have a certain amount of appeal to WCC members who remember that the MW made a run at poaching Zags just a couple of years ago. That failed poaching attempt ended up costing every member (other than Zags) money. Those other members basically had to give Gonzaga a "special deal" that awarded Zags a larger cut of conference revenue. Its not impossible that those same schools might enjoy sticking it to the MW. My guess is that Boise will not get a WCC invite---but there are reasons to think its not completely out of the question Boise might find a home there.

https://apnews.com/article/275680042f9e4...4fbca0ff10

Gonzaga got a bigger share of the revenue because they deserved it. Before that, they were splitting revenue with schools that were contributing nothing. Boise State went 20-12 in 2019-2020 with a Net Ranking of 90. Not bad, but Gonzaga had the No. 1 Net Ranking last season, BYU No. 9, St. Mary's No. 31 and USF No. 83. Boise State was 13-20 in 2018-2019 with a Net Ranking of 149. They have not been to the tournament since 2015 and have never won a tournament game. But they usually win 20 games and they get the most out of the talent they recruit. In 2019-2020, they ranked 9th in basketball recruiting in the MWC.

I can't see a reason for the WCC to add Boise State other than as a favor to them and the AAC. They don't check any boxes. If the WCC doesn't care about academics, why not add GCU. They check a lot of boxes. Seattle or CBU or Denver would make more sense. It feels like the best fit for Boise State is the Big Sky Conference. If the BSC wants them, they should do it and end the drama. At this point, if Boise State and the AAC want to get married for football, then any D1 conference for Olympic sports should do. Everyone makes sacrifices in a marriage.

Boise will no doubt make sacrifices. The question right now is what they will be. Based on the emails---I think they still believe there could be a chance for landing their teams in one of their 2 perferred location (WCC or Big West). At the time, the WAC or Big Sky were not viewed as viable options. Like Ive said--IF the planned expansion of the WAC occurs, I think Boise may view it as stable enough to function as a viable home for Boise's olympic sports. While that is just conjecture on my part--if the WAC is stable, it could make sense as the news Boise home. Boise would be located inside its existing footprint----The WAC currently has another FBS member---and the expected expanded WAC would feature enough solid basketball programs to make it respectable. Its seems like a viable home if the WCC and Big West options fall through.

(01-01-2021 05:04 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 04:21 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 03:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 03:00 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(12-31-2020 03:29 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  In my opinion, the league is perfectly positioned for a growth spurt. What do they gain? Greater notoriety in their own sphere, but adding a few more stalwart programs could really give them some attention back East beyond just everyone tuning in for Gonzaga. Boise State basketball has been getting better and they're a recognizable brand. San Diego State would be in the same category...assuming there's a way to get them into the AAC as well for a football deal. What if Seattle could be talked into going back?

The WCC is in a position to become a more recognizable force in basketball.

Boise State is a football brand, not a basketball brand. Boise State brings nothing to the WCC. In November of 2018, they lost at home to Idaho State in basketball, 72-70. They paid Idaho State $90,000 to drive down to Boise and take their money and a win. Four days earlier, Idaho State lost at Gonzaga, 120-79.

Gonzaga has not played Boise State in basketball in 20 years. They do not have much in common. Gonzaga is private and has a better academic reputation. Gonzaga does not play football. Boise State does not have a men’s soccer or baseball team, a couple of important sports in an Olympic sports league.

Boise State has lost at least one game to each conference in the west over the past two seasons. Gonzaga is great in basketball. Boise State is okay. There are much better candidates in the west than Boise State if the WCC is interested in expansion.

Boise would probably be the third or 4th best program in the WCC if they joined. Zags, BYU, and St Marys would all be considered better. In fact, I suspect Boise would be in the top 3 depending on the year. Boise is 6-1 this year including a win over a 9-2 BYU team. Boise has won 20 games a year every season but one since 2012. Boise would be a solid upper tier addition to the WCC. So, the Boise program would be a nice addition for the WCC---the problem is--as others have mentioned---Boise isnt really a great institutional fit.

That said, the idea of adding solid quality upper tier depth to the WCC while subtracting quality basketball depth from the MW might have a certain amount of appeal to WCC members who remember that the MW made a run at poaching Zags just a couple of years ago. That failed poaching attempt ended up costing every member (other than Zags) money. Those other members basically had to give Gonzaga a "special deal" that awarded Zags a larger cut of conference revenue. Its not impossible that those same schools might enjoy sticking it to the MW. My guess is that Boise will not get a WCC invite---but there are reasons to think its not completely out of the question Boise might find a home there.

https://apnews.com/article/275680042f9e4...4fbca0ff10

Gonzaga got a bigger share of the revenue because they deserved it. Before that, they were splitting revenue with schools that were contributing nothing. Boise State went 20-12 in 2019-2020 with a Net Ranking of 90. Not bad, but Gonzaga had the No. 1 Net Ranking last season, BYU No. 9, St. Mary's No. 31 and USF No. 83. Boise State was 13-20 in 2018-2019 with a Net Ranking of 149. They have not been to the tournament since 2015 and have never won a tournament game. But they usually win 20 games and they get the most out of the talent they recruit. In 2019-2020, they ranked 9th in basketball recruiting in the MWC.

I can't see a reason for the WCC to add Boise State other than as a favor to them and the AAC. They don't check any boxes. If the WCC doesn't care about academics, why not add GCU. They check a lot of boxes. Seattle or CBU or Denver would make more sense. It feels like the best fit for Boise State is the Big Sky Conference. If the BSC wants them, they should do it and end the drama. At this point, if Boise State and the AAC want to get married for football, then any D1 conference for Olympic sports should do. Everyone makes sacrifices in a marriage.

The Big Sky would be a natural for Boise, but if ESPN is in the driver’s seat and the Big Sky is not an ESPN conference, they may go wherever ESPN says.

ESPN does not care about Boise State basketball and they are not going to force a conference to take their basketball program. The BSC is televised regionally because of a lack of interest nationally, although their conference championship game in basketball is televised on ESPNU. If Boise State wants to leave the MWC for the AAC, then they find a D1 conference that wants their Olympic sports. Any D1 conference.

(01-01-2021 05:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 04:21 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 03:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 03:00 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(12-31-2020 03:29 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  In my opinion, the league is perfectly positioned for a growth spurt. What do they gain? Greater notoriety in their own sphere, but adding a few more stalwart programs could really give them some attention back East beyond just everyone tuning in for Gonzaga. Boise State basketball has been getting better and they're a recognizable brand. San Diego State would be in the same category...assuming there's a way to get them into the AAC as well for a football deal. What if Seattle could be talked into going back?

The WCC is in a position to become a more recognizable force in basketball.

Boise State is a football brand, not a basketball brand. Boise State brings nothing to the WCC. In November of 2018, they lost at home to Idaho State in basketball, 72-70. They paid Idaho State $90,000 to drive down to Boise and take their money and a win. Four days earlier, Idaho State lost at Gonzaga, 120-79.

Gonzaga has not played Boise State in basketball in 20 years. They do not have much in common. Gonzaga is private and has a better academic reputation. Gonzaga does not play football. Boise State does not have a men’s soccer or baseball team, a couple of important sports in an Olympic sports league.

Boise State has lost at least one game to each conference in the west over the past two seasons. Gonzaga is great in basketball. Boise State is okay. There are much better candidates in the west than Boise State if the WCC is interested in expansion.

Boise would probably be the third or 4th best program in the WCC if they joined. Zags, BYU, and St Marys would all be considered better. In fact, I suspect Boise would be in the top 3 depending on the year. Boise is 6-1 this year including a win over a 9-2 BYU team. Boise has won 20 games a year every season but one since 2012. Boise would be a solid upper tier addition to the WCC. So, the Boise program would be a nice addition for the WCC---the problem is--as others have mentioned---Boise isnt really a great institutional fit.

That said, the idea of adding solid quality upper tier depth to the WCC while subtracting quality basketball depth from the MW might have a certain amount of appeal to WCC members who remember that the MW made a run at poaching Zags just a couple of years ago. That failed poaching attempt ended up costing every member (other than Zags) money. Those other members basically had to give Gonzaga a "special deal" that awarded Zags a larger cut of conference revenue. Its not impossible that those same schools might enjoy sticking it to the MW. My guess is that Boise will not get a WCC invite---but there are reasons to think its not completely out of the question Boise might find a home there.

https://apnews.com/article/275680042f9e4...4fbca0ff10

Gonzaga got a bigger share of the revenue because they deserved it. Before that, they were splitting revenue with schools that were contributing nothing. Boise State went 20-12 in 2019-2020 with a Net Ranking of 90. Not bad, but Gonzaga had the No. 1 Net Ranking last season, BYU No. 9, St. Mary's No. 31 and USF No. 83. Boise State was 13-20 in 2018-2019 with a Net Ranking of 149. They have not been to the tournament since 2015 and have never won a tournament game. But they usually win 20 games and they get the most out of the talent they recruit. In 2019-2020, they ranked 9th in basketball recruiting in the MWC.

I can't see a reason for the WCC to add Boise State other than as a favor to them and the AAC. They don't check any boxes. If the WCC doesn't care about academics, why not add GCU. They check a lot of boxes. Seattle or CBU or Denver would make more sense. It feels like the best fit for Boise State is the Big Sky Conference. If the BSC wants them, they should do it and end the drama. At this point, if Boise State and the AAC want to get married for football, then any D1 conference for Olympic sports should do. Everyone makes sacrifices in a marriage.

Boise will no doubt make sacrifices. The question right now is what they will be. Based on the emails---I think they still believe there could be a chance for landing their teams in one of their 2 perferred location (WCC or Big West). At the time, the WAC or Big Sky were not viewed as viable options. Like Ive said--IF the planned expansion of the WAC occurs, I think Boise may view it as stable enough to function as a viable home for Boise's olympic sports. While that is just conjecture on my part--if the WAC is stable, it could make sense as the news Boise home. Boise would be located inside its existing footprint----The WAC currently has another FBS member---and the expected expanded WAC would feature enough solid basketball programs to make it respectable. Its seems like a viable home if the WCC and Big West options fall through.

This premise is based on assuming the WAC needs warm bodies. That changes if the TX4 + SUU adds go through. WAC is no longer in survival mode. With no baseball and MSoc, they really bring nothing to the WAC other than taking a spot of a potential WAC FB member.

(01-01-2021 05:50 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 05:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 04:21 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 03:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 03:00 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Boise State is a football brand, not a basketball brand. Boise State brings nothing to the WCC. In November of 2018, they lost at home to Idaho State in basketball, 72-70. They paid Idaho State $90,000 to drive down to Boise and take their money and a win. Four days earlier, Idaho State lost at Gonzaga, 120-79.

Gonzaga has not played Boise State in basketball in 20 years. They do not have much in common. Gonzaga is private and has a better academic reputation. Gonzaga does not play football. Boise State does not have a men’s soccer or baseball team, a couple of important sports in an Olympic sports league.

Boise State has lost at least one game to each conference in the west over the past two seasons. Gonzaga is great in basketball. Boise State is okay. There are much better candidates in the west than Boise State if the WCC is interested in expansion.

Boise would probably be the third or 4th best program in the WCC if they joined. Zags, BYU, and St Marys would all be considered better. In fact, I suspect Boise would be in the top 3 depending on the year. Boise is 6-1 this year including a win over a 9-2 BYU team. Boise has won 20 games a year every season but one since 2012. Boise would be a solid upper tier addition to the WCC. So, the Boise program would be a nice addition for the WCC---the problem is--as others have mentioned---Boise isnt really a great institutional fit.

That said, the idea of adding solid quality upper tier depth to the WCC while subtracting quality basketball depth from the MW might have a certain amount of appeal to WCC members who remember that the MW made a run at poaching Zags just a couple of years ago. That failed poaching attempt ended up costing every member (other than Zags) money. Those other members basically had to give Gonzaga a "special deal" that awarded Zags a larger cut of conference revenue. Its not impossible that those same schools might enjoy sticking it to the MW. My guess is that Boise will not get a WCC invite---but there are reasons to think its not completely out of the question Boise might find a home there.

https://apnews.com/article/275680042f9e4...4fbca0ff10

Gonzaga got a bigger share of the revenue because they deserved it. Before that, they were splitting revenue with schools that were contributing nothing. Boise State went 20-12 in 2019-2020 with a Net Ranking of 90. Not bad, but Gonzaga had the No. 1 Net Ranking last season, BYU No. 9, St. Mary's No. 31 and USF No. 83. Boise State was 13-20 in 2018-2019 with a Net Ranking of 149. They have not been to the tournament since 2015 and have never won a tournament game. But they usually win 20 games and they get the most out of the talent they recruit. In 2019-2020, they ranked 9th in basketball recruiting in the MWC.

I can't see a reason for the WCC to add Boise State other than as a favor to them and the AAC. They don't check any boxes. If the WCC doesn't care about academics, why not add GCU. They check a lot of boxes. Seattle or CBU or Denver would make more sense. It feels like the best fit for Boise State is the Big Sky Conference. If the BSC wants them, they should do it and end the drama. At this point, if Boise State and the AAC want to get married for football, then any D1 conference for Olympic sports should do. Everyone makes sacrifices in a marriage.

Boise will no doubt make sacrifices. The question right now is what they will be. Based on the emails---I think they still believe there could be a chance for landing their teams in one of their 2 perferred location (WCC or Big West). At the time, the WAC or Big Sky were not viewed as viable options. Like Ive said--IF the planned expansion of the WAC occurs, I think Boise may view it as stable enough to function as a viable home for Boise's olympic sports. While that is just conjecture on my part--if the WAC is stable, it could make sense as the news Boise home. Boise would be located inside its existing footprint----The WAC currently has another FBS member---and the expected expanded WAC would feature enough solid basketball programs to make it respectable. Its seems like a viable home if the WCC and Big West options fall through.

This premise is based on assuming the WAC needs warm bodies. That changes if the TX4 + SUU adds go through. WAC is no longer in survival mode. With no baseball and MSoc, they really bring nothing to the WAC other than taking a spot of a potential WAC FB member.

Shrug. None of those football program even have a vote yet. Boise is hardly a "warm body" addition for the WAC. Boise would be one of the top 2 basketball programs in the WAC and the most well known/recognized name in the entire conference. This is a group of schools that is currently obsessed with making the conference membership large and stable. I think your fooling yourself if your think the WAC wouldnt add Boise in a second. If Boise was willing to go there---it would already be done. Unfortunately, I suspect Boise does not see the WAC as a stable home for Boise sports until the WAC expansion is signed, sealed and delivered.

If the WCC and the Big West don't want Boise, and the WAC and Big Sky are not acceptable options, and the AAC only wants a football membership, what does Boise do then?

(01-01-2021 07:35 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  If the WCC and the Big West don't want Boise, and the WAC and Big Sky are not acceptable options, and the AAC only wants a football membership, what does Boise do then?

Stay in the MWC and stfu about their situation.

(01-01-2021 06:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 05:50 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 05:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 04:21 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 03:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Boise would probably be the third or 4th best program in the WCC if they joined. Zags, BYU, and St Marys would all be considered better. In fact, I suspect Boise would be in the top 3 depending on the year. Boise is 6-1 this year including a win over a 9-2 BYU team. Boise has won 20 games a year every season but one since 2012. Boise would be a solid upper tier addition to the WCC. So, the Boise program would be a nice addition for the WCC---the problem is--as others have mentioned---Boise isnt really a great institutional fit.

That said, the idea of adding solid quality upper tier depth to the WCC while subtracting quality basketball depth from the MW might have a certain amount of appeal to WCC members who remember that the MW made a run at poaching Zags just a couple of years ago. That failed poaching attempt ended up costing every member (other than Zags) money. Those other members basically had to give Gonzaga a "special deal" that awarded Zags a larger cut of conference revenue. Its not impossible that those same schools might enjoy sticking it to the MW. My guess is that Boise will not get a WCC invite---but there are reasons to think its not completely out of the question Boise might find a home there.

https://apnews.com/article/275680042f9e4...4fbca0ff10

Gonzaga got a bigger share of the revenue because they deserved it. Before that, they were splitting revenue with schools that were contributing nothing. Boise State went 20-12 in 2019-2020 with a Net Ranking of 90. Not bad, but Gonzaga had the No. 1 Net Ranking last season, BYU No. 9, St. Mary's No. 31 and USF No. 83. Boise State was 13-20 in 2018-2019 with a Net Ranking of 149. They have not been to the tournament since 2015 and have never won a tournament game. But they usually win 20 games and they get the most out of the talent they recruit. In 2019-2020, they ranked 9th in basketball recruiting in the MWC.

I can't see a reason for the WCC to add Boise State other than as a favor to them and the AAC. They don't check any boxes. If the WCC doesn't care about academics, why not add GCU. They check a lot of boxes. Seattle or CBU or Denver would make more sense. It feels like the best fit for Boise State is the Big Sky Conference. If the BSC wants them, they should do it and end the drama. At this point, if Boise State and the AAC want to get married for football, then any D1 conference for Olympic sports should do. Everyone makes sacrifices in a marriage.

Boise will no doubt make sacrifices. The question right now is what they will be. Based on the emails---I think they still believe there could be a chance for landing their teams in one of their 2 perferred location (WCC or Big West). At the time, the WAC or Big Sky were not viewed as viable options. Like Ive said--IF the planned expansion of the WAC occurs, I think Boise may view it as stable enough to function as a viable home for Boise's olympic sports. While that is just conjecture on my part--if the WAC is stable, it could make sense as the news Boise home. Boise would be located inside its existing footprint----The WAC currently has another FBS member---and the expected expanded WAC would feature enough solid basketball programs to make it respectable. Its seems like a viable home if the WCC and Big West options fall through.

This premise is based on assuming the WAC needs warm bodies. That changes if the TX4 + SUU adds go through. WAC is no longer in survival mode. With no baseball and MSoc, they really bring nothing to the WAC other than taking a spot of a potential WAC FB member.

Shrug. None of those football program even have a vote yet. Boise is hardly a "warm body" addition for the WAC. Boise would be one of the top 2 basketball programs in the WAC and the most well known/recognized name in the entire conference. This is a group of schools that is currently obsessed with making the conference membership large and stable. I think your fooling yourself if your think the WAC wouldnt add Boise in a second. If Boise was willing to go there---it would already be done. Unfortunately, I suspect Boise does not see the WAC as a stable home for Boise sports until the WAC expansion is signed, sealed and delivered.

Because of FB, which isn't joining the WAC. Boise is nothing more than a warm body to the WAC if/when the TX4/SUU join, in fact, they are less than that since they aren't brining baseball and MSoc to shore up stability in those sports. You are severely underestimating the WAC's membership position with these pending additions. Boise doesn't bring a 2nd MBB tourney bid so in the grand scheme of these they are just another mouth to feed and another outlier to travel to. I don't know how that is seen as a positive in this.

The WAC might have been desperate to take on Boise pre-TX4 talks. Now, not so much. I honestly don't see what they bring to the WAC other than more realignment drama.

(01-01-2021 07:56 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 07:35 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  If the WCC and the Big West don't want Boise, and the WAC and Big Sky are not acceptable options, and the AAC only wants a football membership, what does Boise do then?

Stay in the MWC and stfu about their situation.

Some of us wish for this so hard.

(01-01-2021 08:04 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 06:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 05:50 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 05:07 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 04:21 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Gonzaga got a bigger share of the revenue because they deserved it. Before that, they were splitting revenue with schools that were contributing nothing. Boise State went 20-12 in 2019-2020 with a Net Ranking of 90. Not bad, but Gonzaga had the No. 1 Net Ranking last season, BYU No. 9, St. Mary's No. 31 and USF No. 83. Boise State was 13-20 in 2018-2019 with a Net Ranking of 149. They have not been to the tournament since 2015 and have never won a tournament game. But they usually win 20 games and they get the most out of the talent they recruit. In 2019-2020, they ranked 9th in basketball recruiting in the MWC.

I can't see a reason for the WCC to add Boise State other than as a favor to them and the AAC. They don't check any boxes. If the WCC doesn't care about academics, why not add GCU. They check a lot of boxes. Seattle or CBU or Denver would make more sense. It feels like the best fit for Boise State is the Big Sky Conference. If the BSC wants them, they should do it and end the drama. At this point, if Boise State and the AAC want to get married for football, then any D1 conference for Olympic sports should do. Everyone makes sacrifices in a marriage.

Boise will no doubt make sacrifices. The question right now is what they will be. Based on the emails---I think they still believe there could be a chance for landing their teams in one of their 2 perferred location (WCC or Big West). At the time, the WAC or Big Sky were not viewed as viable options. Like Ive said--IF the planned expansion of the WAC occurs, I think Boise may view it as stable enough to function as a viable home for Boise's olympic sports. While that is just conjecture on my part--if the WAC is stable, it could make sense as the news Boise home. Boise would be located inside its existing footprint----The WAC currently has another FBS member---and the expected expanded WAC would feature enough solid basketball programs to make it respectable. Its seems like a viable home if the WCC and Big West options fall through.

This premise is based on assuming the WAC needs warm bodies. That changes if the TX4 + SUU adds go through. WAC is no longer in survival mode. With no baseball and MSoc, they really bring nothing to the WAC other than taking a spot of a potential WAC FB member.

Shrug. None of those football program even have a vote yet. Boise is hardly a "warm body" addition for the WAC. Boise would be one of the top 2 basketball programs in the WAC and the most well known/recognized name in the entire conference. This is a group of schools that is currently obsessed with making the conference membership large and stable. I think your fooling yourself if your think the WAC wouldnt add Boise in a second. If Boise was willing to go there---it would already be done. Unfortunately, I suspect Boise does not see the WAC as a stable home for Boise sports until the WAC expansion is signed, sealed and delivered.

Because of FB, which isn't joining the WAC. Boise is nothing more than a warm body to the WAC if/when the TX4/SUU join, in fact, they are less than that since they aren't brining baseball and MSoc to shore up stability in those sports. You are severely underestimating the WAC's membership position with these pending additions. Boise doesn't bring a 2nd MBB tourney bid so in the grand scheme of these they are just another mouth to feed and another outlier to travel to. I don't know how that is seen as a positive in this.

The WAC might have been desperate to take on Boise pre-TX4 talks. Now, not so much. I honestly don't see what they bring to the WAC other than more realignment drama.

Ive addressed all these items multiple times. Being the best known name in a league has real value. Its likely that the Boise basketball games would bring the biggest ticket sales of the year for many of these schools (keep in mind, most of the voting WAC members do not play football). Those are real dollars and real dollars talk to administrators. You have to look at this like a school president---not a fan. We will just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

(01-01-2021 04:07 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 10:25 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  A few thoughts:

* The AAC seemingly does not want Boise's Olympic sports ...

... * however, the AAC might be fine with Boise's Olympic sports if, say, BYU and San Diego State also were joining for all sports.

* Boise men's hoops seems very respectable

* If I'm Boise, I do NOT want my football in one league and all other sports in another. That is a bad model.

In my opinion, this is the most likely scenario. And that may be why it is taking so long to make it happen.

I think that is even less likely than Boise being the only new member.

Three new geographic outliers instead of one just increases travel costs for the easterners. There would have to be an entire western division to avoid that problem, and it would have to be several teams from the west, because trying to put central time zone teams like SMU, Houston, and Tulsa in a western division would cause those schools to block the invitations. And adding several new members would dilute conference revenue, so that isn't happening either.

(01-01-2021 08:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Ive addressed all these items multiple times. Being the best known name in a league has real value. Its likely that the Boise basketball games would bring the biggest ticket sales of the year for many of these schools (keep in mind, most of the voting WAC members do not play football). Those are real dollars and real dollars talk to administrators. You have to look at this like a school president---not a fan. We will just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

Yup, we'll have to agree to disagree. If Boise hoops moves the needle as much as you claim then the AAC would be up for adding them, as would the WCC, and neither are.

The BSC is the only spot that makes sense for them, and even then I think being a 10/12 league would be better for logistics (and costs) in the long run. But the BSC historically makes knee jerk reactions on membership decisions and I would expect nothing different with a Boise desperate for an Oly home.

(01-01-2021 08:09 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 07:56 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 07:35 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  If the WCC and the Big West don't want Boise, and the WAC and Big Sky are not acceptable options, and the AAC only wants a football membership, what does Boise do then?

Stay in the MWC and stfu about their situation.

Some of us wish for this so hard.

I kinda do wish that but I also would like to see them move. I think the WAC would take them for CSU's spot. They would be top four with NMSU , SFA and GCU being pretty good.

(01-01-2021 09:25 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 08:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Ive addressed all these items multiple times. Being the best known name in a league has real value. Its likely that the Boise basketball games would bring the biggest ticket sales of the year for many of these schools (keep in mind, most of the voting WAC members do not play football). Those are real dollars and real dollars talk to administrators. You have to look at this like a school president---not a fan. We will just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

Yup, we'll have to agree to disagree. If Boise hoops moves the needle as much as you claim then the AAC would be up for adding them, as would the WCC, and neither are.

The BSC is the only spot that makes sense for them, and even then I think being a 10/12 league would be better for logistics (and costs) in the long run. But the BSC historically makes knee jerk reactions on membership decisions and I would expect nothing different with a Boise desperate for an Oly home.

Are you seriously conflating the AAC and WCC membership with the WAC membership? Those arent the same animals--not even close. Last year the AAC was the 7th strongest basketball conference and the WCC was the 9th strongest conference. The WAC was the 27th ranked conference (out of 32). Boise is located within the current WAC footprint. Boise is not in the AAC's footprint and is pretty far from 7 of the 10 WCC members. What is fantastic get for the WAC might not be as great a deal for the WCC or AAC. That said--as I pointed ut before----I can see the WCC adding them if they decide the institutional fit issue isnt a big concern for one member. Boise would be a way to thicken up the top of the conference.

(01-01-2021 09:05 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 04:07 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 10:25 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  A few thoughts:

* The AAC seemingly does not want Boise's Olympic sports ...

... * however, the AAC might be fine with Boise's Olympic sports if, say, BYU and San Diego State also were joining for all sports.

* Boise men's hoops seems very respectable

* If I'm Boise, I do NOT want my football in one league and all other sports in another. That is a bad model.

In my opinion, this is the most likely scenario. And that may be why it is taking so long to make it happen.

I think that is even less likely than Boise being the only new member.

Three new geographic outliers instead of one just increases travel costs for the easterners. There would have to be an entire western division to avoid that problem, and it would have to be several teams from the west, because trying to put central time zone teams like SMU, Houston, and Tulsa in a western division would cause those schools to block the invitations. And adding several new members would dilute conference revenue, so that isn't happening either.

Agree. Adding three distant all sports members would substantially increase the travel budgets. ESPN would have to add enough money to make that kind of travel worth it---and I dont see them wanting to cover those additional costs. That said---I do think ESPN would probably like the idea of cherry picking 6 western time zone Boise games a year...basically for free (Boise would just be taking UConns pay slot in the AAC). I could see ESPN throwing in a few bucks at a conference to grease the skids for providing an olympic home for Boise sports if it made the deal work. For instance, the WAC already has an ESPN+ deal...so it could be channeled through that pre-existing arrangement.

(01-01-2021 10:19 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Are you seriously conflating the AAC and WCC membership with the WAC membership? Those arent the same animals--not even close. Last year the AAC was the 7th strongest basketball conference and the WCC was the 9th strongest conference. The WAC was the 27th ranked conference (out of 32). Boise is located within the current WAC footprint. Boise is not in the AAC's footprint and is pretty far from 7 of the 10 WCC members. What is fantastic get for the WAC might not be as great a deal for the WCC or AAC. That said--as I pointed ut before----I can see the WCC adding them if they decide the institutional fit issue isnt a big concern for one member. Boise would be a way to thicken up the top of the conference.

Nope, just saying if the Boise Oly's are as awesome as you are claiming them to be then the AAC taking them to get their FB wouldn't be the sticking point that it is.

My point regarding Boise to the WAC is that the WAC doesn't need them as much as you want to believe given the pending TX4/SUU adds. Sure they'd help WAC hoops, but Boise isn't going to turn the WAC into a 2 bid league, and the WAC is working a different angle with FB adds.

(01-01-2021 10:44 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 10:19 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Are you seriously conflating the AAC and WCC membership with the WAC membership? Those arent the same animals--not even close. Last year the AAC was the 7th strongest basketball conference and the WCC was the 9th strongest conference. The WAC was the 27th ranked conference (out of 32). Boise is located within the current WAC footprint. Boise is not in the AAC's footprint and is pretty far from 7 of the 10 WCC members. What is fantastic get for the WAC might not be as great a deal for the WCC or AAC. That said--as I pointed ut before----I can see the WCC adding them if they decide the institutional fit issue isnt a big concern for one member. Boise would be a way to thicken up the top of the conference.

Nope, just saying if the Boise Oly's are as awesome as you are claiming them to be then the AAC taking them to get their FB wouldn't be the sticking point that it is.

My point regarding Boise to the WAC is that the WAC doesn't need them as much as you want to believe given the pending TX4/SUU adds. Sure they'd help WAC hoops, but Boise isn't going to turn the WAC into a 2 bid league, and the WAC is working a different angle with FB adds.

I thought you guys agreed to disagree. LOL.

I get where Attackcoog is coming from but I’m with SDHornet on this one. Let’s assume for a moment that the WAC is successful in adding the Texas 4 and SUU to increase membership to 14 and is eying one last potential addition to replace Chicago State. Let’s further assume that the candidates are Boise State for Olympic sports only and West Texas A&M for all sports.

With Boise State you get an existing D1 program with a national brand that’s had some good hoops seasons historically but hasn’t been to the Dance since 2015 and has never won an NCAA tournament game. It’s also a program that just killed baseball.

With West Texas A&M you get a D2 move-up, but one that expands your newly-formed FCS football conference from 7 to 8 teams, increasing stability and making scheduling easier. You also pick up a hoops program that made it to the D2 final four in 2018 and elite eight in 2019 and was 32-1 and ranked third nationally when play was suspended in 2020. Finally you add a baseball program that had earned six consecutive berths in the D2 regionals from 2014 to 2019 and was on track for a seventh in 2020.

Another advantage of going with West Texas A&M is that half of your conference members will be in Texas and can share a very travel-friendly eastern division for Olympic sports. Also it keeps NMSU and SFA in separate divisions, reducing opportunities for your two best basketball programs to beat up on each other and potentially eliminate each other from NCAA at-large bid consideration prior to the conference tournament.

In that specific scenario the better choice IMHO is clearly West Texas A&M.

(01-01-2021 11:57 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 10:44 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 10:19 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Are you seriously conflating the AAC and WCC membership with the WAC membership? Those arent the same animals--not even close. Last year the AAC was the 7th strongest basketball conference and the WCC was the 9th strongest conference. The WAC was the 27th ranked conference (out of 32). Boise is located within the current WAC footprint. Boise is not in the AAC's footprint and is pretty far from 7 of the 10 WCC members. What is fantastic get for the WAC might not be as great a deal for the WCC or AAC. That said--as I pointed ut before----I can see the WCC adding them if they decide the institutional fit issue isnt a big concern for one member. Boise would be a way to thicken up the top of the conference.

Nope, just saying if the Boise Oly's are as awesome as you are claiming them to be then the AAC taking them to get their FB wouldn't be the sticking point that it is.

My point regarding Boise to the WAC is that the WAC doesn't need them as much as you want to believe given the pending TX4/SUU adds. Sure they'd help WAC hoops, but Boise isn't going to turn the WAC into a 2 bid league, and the WAC is working a different angle with FB adds.

I thought you guys agreed to disagree. LOL.

I get where Attackcoog is coming from but I’m with SDHornet on this one. Let’s assume for a moment that the WAC is successful in adding the Texas 4 and SUU to increase membership to 14 and is eying one last potential addition to replace Chicago State. Let’s further assume that the candidates are Boise State for Olympic sports only and West Texas A&M for all sports.

With Boise State you get an existing D1 program with a national brand that’s had some good hoops seasons historically but hasn’t been to the Dance since 2015 and has never won an NCAA tournament game. It’s also a program that just killed baseball.

With West Texas A&M you get a D2 move-up, but one that expands your newly-formed FCS football conference from 7 to 8 teams, increasing stability and making scheduling easier. You also pick up a hoops program that made it to the D2 final four in 2018 and elite eight in 2019 and was 32-1 and ranked third nationally when play was suspended in 2020. Finally you add a baseball program that had earned six consecutive berths in the D2 regionals from 2014 to 2019 and was on track for a seventh in 2020.

Another advantage of going with West Texas A&M is that half of your conference members will be in Texas and can share a very travel-friendly eastern division for Olympic sports. Also it keeps NMSU and SFA in separate divisions, reducing opportunities for your two best basketball programs to beat up on each other and potentially eliminate each other from NCAA at-large bid consideration prior to the conference tournament.

In that specific scenario the better choice IMHO is clearly West Texas A&M.

What would keep the WAC from taking both Boise and West Texas A&M?

(01-01-2021 03:00 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(12-31-2020 03:29 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  In my opinion, the league is perfectly positioned for a growth spurt. What do they gain? Greater notoriety in their own sphere, but adding a few more stalwart programs could really give them some attention back East beyond just everyone tuning in for Gonzaga. Boise State basketball has been getting better and they're a recognizable brand. San Diego State would be in the same category...assuming there's a way to get them into the AAC as well for a football deal. What if Seattle could be talked into going back?

The WCC is in a position to become a more recognizable force in basketball.

Boise State is a football brand, not a basketball brand. Boise State brings nothing to the WCC. In November of 2018, they lost at home to Idaho State in basketball, 72-70. They paid Idaho State $90,000 to drive down to Boise and take their money and a win. Four days earlier, Idaho State lost at Gonzaga, 120-79.

Gonzaga has not played Boise State in basketball in 20 years. They do not have much in common. Gonzaga is private and has a better academic reputation. Gonzaga does not play football. Boise State does not have a men’s soccer or baseball team, a couple of important sports in an Olympic sports league.

Boise State has lost at least one game to each conference in the west over the past two seasons. Gonzaga is great in basketball. Boise State is okay. There are much better candidates in the west than Boise State if the WCC is interested in expansion.

Truthfully, there are very few genuine basketball brands. Many of them are in power leagues and even then tend to be recognized more for their football product. Such is the nature of the sport. There is a reason it is a distant 2nd when it comes to generating revenue on the whole.

Point being, the majority of WCC programs are not household names. For college sports fans, Boise State is a recognizable name and as long as they are committed to being competitive then that will bring TV viewers. They don't have to be as good as Gonzaga, few are. They just have to be worth watching late at night during basketball season. Their football notoriety makes it more likely the casual viewer will tune in when compared with schools like San Francisco or Pacific or the like.

For the second bolded statement, I would wholeheartedly disagree. There aren't a ton of decent D1 schools in the West as it is and very few that would add any pop to the WCC that would be interested.

A strategy that takes advantage of the issues in the Mountain West would seem to be the only real path to making a splash. Outside of that, I'm sure they could find some compatible schools in the West, but no one that the average fan is any more likely to watch than 7 of their current members. I'm not suggesting they should grow for the sake of doing it. I'm suggesting they should add schools with name recognition.

(01-01-2021 05:41 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 05:04 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 04:21 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 03:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 03:00 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Boise State is a football brand, not a basketball brand. Boise State brings nothing to the WCC. In November of 2018, they lost at home to Idaho State in basketball, 72-70. They paid Idaho State $90,000 to drive down to Boise and take their money and a win. Four days earlier, Idaho State lost at Gonzaga, 120-79.

Gonzaga has not played Boise State in basketball in 20 years. They do not have much in common. Gonzaga is private and has a better academic reputation. Gonzaga does not play football. Boise State does not have a men’s soccer or baseball team, a couple of important sports in an Olympic sports league.

Boise State has lost at least one game to each conference in the west over the past two seasons. Gonzaga is great in basketball. Boise State is okay. There are much better candidates in the west than Boise State if the WCC is interested in expansion.

Boise would probably be the third or 4th best program in the WCC if they joined. Zags, BYU, and St Marys would all be considered better. In fact, I suspect Boise would be in the top 3 depending on the year. Boise is 6-1 this year including a win over a 9-2 BYU team. Boise has won 20 games a year every season but one since 2012. Boise would be a solid upper tier addition to the WCC. So, the Boise program would be a nice addition for the WCC---the problem is--as others have mentioned---Boise isnt really a great institutional fit.

That said, the idea of adding solid quality upper tier depth to the WCC while subtracting quality basketball depth from the MW might have a certain amount of appeal to WCC members who remember that the MW made a run at poaching Zags just a couple of years ago. That failed poaching attempt ended up costing every member (other than Zags) money. Those other members basically had to give Gonzaga a "special deal" that awarded Zags a larger cut of conference revenue. Its not impossible that those same schools might enjoy sticking it to the MW. My guess is that Boise will not get a WCC invite---but there are reasons to think its not completely out of the question Boise might find a home there.

https://apnews.com/article/275680042f9e4...4fbca0ff10

Gonzaga got a bigger share of the revenue because they deserved it. Before that, they were splitting revenue with schools that were contributing nothing. Boise State went 20-12 in 2019-2020 with a Net Ranking of 90. Not bad, but Gonzaga had the No. 1 Net Ranking last season, BYU No. 9, St. Mary's No. 31 and USF No. 83. Boise State was 13-20 in 2018-2019 with a Net Ranking of 149. They have not been to the tournament since 2015 and have never won a tournament game. But they usually win 20 games and they get the most out of the talent they recruit. In 2019-2020, they ranked 9th in basketball recruiting in the MWC.

I can't see a reason for the WCC to add Boise State other than as a favor to them and the AAC. They don't check any boxes. If the WCC doesn't care about academics, why not add GCU. They check a lot of boxes. Seattle or CBU or Denver would make more sense. It feels like the best fit for Boise State is the Big Sky Conference. If the BSC wants them, they should do it and end the drama. At this point, if Boise State and the AAC want to get married for football, then any D1 conference for Olympic sports should do. Everyone makes sacrifices in a marriage.

The Big Sky would be a natural for Boise, but if ESPN is in the driver’s seat and the Big Sky is not an ESPN conference, they may go wherever ESPN says.

ESPN does not care about Boise State basketball and they are not going to force a conference to take their basketball program. The BSC is televised regionally because of a lack of interest nationally, although their conference championship game in basketball is televised on ESPNU. If Boise State wants to leave the MWC for the AAC, then they find a D1 conference that wants their Olympic sports. Any D1 conference.

ESPN wouldn't have to force a league to take them. As Attackcoog suggested, if ESPN wants Boise State in the AAC then they don't really have to spend any more money on the football product. They could sweeten the pot a little for a basketball league to ensure the move is facilitated. Most leagues at that level would be happy with a raise and a little more airtime on ESPN.

From a business perspective, ESPN gets a recognizable brand in the West to go along with their AAC lineup. They're already paying the AAC for 12 football members as it is.

Being that they currently don't own any of the Mountain West lineup, it's an all around gain.

(01-02-2021 12:37 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  What would keep the WAC from taking both Boise and West Texas A&M?

Nothing, but taking both would push the WAC to 16 and they already tried that before.