(01-02-2021 01:25 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-02-2021 12:37 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  What would keep the WAC from taking both Boise and West Texas A&M?

Nothing, but taking both would push the WAC to 16 and they already tried that before.

Sixteen if Chicago State stays, 15 if not. I can't imagine the conference wanting to expand beyond 14.

(01-02-2021 12:37 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 11:57 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 10:44 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 10:19 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Are you seriously conflating the AAC and WCC membership with the WAC membership? Those arent the same animals--not even close. Last year the AAC was the 7th strongest basketball conference and the WCC was the 9th strongest conference. The WAC was the 27th ranked conference (out of 32). Boise is located within the current WAC footprint. Boise is not in the AAC's footprint and is pretty far from 7 of the 10 WCC members. What is fantastic get for the WAC might not be as great a deal for the WCC or AAC. That said--as I pointed ut before----I can see the WCC adding them if they decide the institutional fit issue isnt a big concern for one member. Boise would be a way to thicken up the top of the conference.

Nope, just saying if the Boise Oly's are as awesome as you are claiming them to be then the AAC taking them to get their FB wouldn't be the sticking point that it is.

My point regarding Boise to the WAC is that the WAC doesn't need them as much as you want to believe given the pending TX4/SUU adds. Sure they'd help WAC hoops, but Boise isn't going to turn the WAC into a 2 bid league, and the WAC is working a different angle with FB adds.

I thought you guys agreed to disagree. LOL.

I get where Attackcoog is coming from but I’m with SDHornet on this one. Let’s assume for a moment that the WAC is successful in adding the Texas 4 and SUU to increase membership to 14 and is eying one last potential addition to replace Chicago State. Let’s further assume that the candidates are Boise State for Olympic sports only and West Texas A&M for all sports.

With Boise State you get an existing D1 program with a national brand that’s had some good hoops seasons historically but hasn’t been to the Dance since 2015 and has never won an NCAA tournament game. It’s also a program that just killed baseball.

With West Texas A&M you get a D2 move-up, but one that expands your newly-formed FCS football conference from 7 to 8 teams, increasing stability and making scheduling easier. You also pick up a hoops program that made it to the D2 final four in 2018 and elite eight in 2019 and was 32-1 and ranked third nationally when play was suspended in 2020. Finally you add a baseball program that had earned six consecutive berths in the D2 regionals from 2014 to 2019 and was on track for a seventh in 2020.

Another advantage of going with West Texas A&M is that half of your conference members will be in Texas and can share a very travel-friendly eastern division for Olympic sports. Also it keeps NMSU and SFA in separate divisions, reducing opportunities for your two best basketball programs to beat up on each other and potentially eliminate each other from NCAA at-large bid consideration prior to the conference tournament.

In that specific scenario the better choice IMHO is clearly West Texas A&M.

What would keep the WAC from taking both Boise and West Texas A&M?

Absolutely nothing. The WAC could grab a name brand school and have a D2 move up to play football with. That said, the Boise emails make no mention of contact with the WAC or Big Sky---so its completely possible Boise may not see either of those conferences as worthy landing spots regardless of their stability.

Boise State is not interested in the WAC. The only reason the Big West (but not the Big Sky or WAC) were contacted is because they provide critical access to California schools for recruiting with ten California public school members. But it was never going to happen. The Big Sky and WAC lack the multiple California schools in the Metros of the Bay Area and SoCal which the Big West and WCC do. The WCC also features Gonzaga and BYU that would make leaving the MWC acceptable to their Basketball and other Olympic sports donors.

The WCC was never going to take them, as they are faith based, not interested in a temporary sojourner that Boise State would be, and also they do not help Gonzaga's resume appreciably -- which matters in WCC decisions. The Big West was not going to happen, and both the Big Sky and WAC are seen as even worse options as one bid conferences.

The American likes their football, but they are not willing to make the same concession they made to accept ECU Basketball.

There is thus no acceptable home available for Boise State Olympic sports. Thus a move to the American for Football is blocked, and will remain blocked until either the WCC or the American decides to accept Boise State Olympics. And neither appears remotely likely to happen.

(01-02-2021 02:10 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Boise State is not interested in the WAC. The only reason the Big West (but not the Big Sky or WAC) were contacted is because they provide critical access to California schools for recruiting with ten California public school members. But it was never going to happen. The Big Sky and WAC lack the multiple California schools in the Metros of the Bay Area and SoCal which the Big West and WCC do. The WCC also features Gonzaga and BYU that would make leaving the MWC acceptable to their Basketball and other Olympic sports donors.

The WCC was never going to take them, as they are faith based, not interested in a temporary sojourner that Boise State would be, and also they do not help Gonzaga's resume appreciably -- which matters in WCC decisions. The Big West was not going to happen, and both the Big Sky and WAC are seen as even worse options as one bid conferences.

The American likes their football, but they are not willing to make the same concession they made to accept ECU Basketball.

There is thus no acceptable home available for Boise State Olympic sports. Thus a move to the American for Football is blocked, and will remain blocked until either the WCC or the American decides to accept Boise State Olympics. And neither appears remotely likely to happen.

Lol... can we trade ECU basketball for Boise basketball?

(01-02-2021 02:10 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Boise State is not interested in the WAC. The only reason the Big West (but not the Big Sky or WAC) were contacted is because they provide critical access to California schools for recruiting with ten California public school members. But it was never going to happen. The Big Sky and WAC lack the multiple California schools in the Metros of the Bay Area and SoCal which the Big West and WCC do. The WCC also features Gonzaga and BYU that would make leaving the MWC acceptable to their Basketball and other Olympic sports donors.

The WCC was never going to take them, as they are faith based, not interested in a temporary sojourner that Boise State would be, and also they do not help Gonzaga's resume appreciably -- which matters in WCC decisions. The Big West was not going to happen, and both the Big Sky and WAC are seen as even worse options as one bid conferences.

The American likes their football, but they are not willing to make the same concession they made to accept ECU Basketball.

There is thus no acceptable home available for Boise State Olympic sports. Thus a move to the American for Football is blocked, and will remain blocked until either the WCC or the American decides to accept Boise State Olympics. And neither appears remotely likely to happen.

Boise St football is fine in the Mt West unless and until the AAC or some future watered-down version of the PAC or XII comes calling for Boise St as an all-sports member. Within the last several years, the Mt West frequently has at least 1 and as many as 3 teams ranked in football. Basketball has a decently high profile with the likes of UNLV and San Diego St (not to mention New Mexico and Utah St are rarely slouches.)

The Mt West is not the ideal football conference but given that it is, at worst, the 10th best overall athletics Division I conference, the fit is pretty good.

(01-02-2021 10:56 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(01-02-2021 02:10 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Boise State is not interested in the WAC. The only reason the Big West (but not the Big Sky or WAC) were contacted is because they provide critical access to California schools for recruiting with ten California public school members. But it was never going to happen. The Big Sky and WAC lack the multiple California schools in the Metros of the Bay Area and SoCal which the Big West and WCC do. The WCC also features Gonzaga and BYU that would make leaving the MWC acceptable to their Basketball and other Olympic sports donors.

The WCC was never going to take them, as they are faith based, not interested in a temporary sojourner that Boise State would be, and also they do not help Gonzaga's resume appreciably -- which matters in WCC decisions. The Big West was not going to happen, and both the Big Sky and WAC are seen as even worse options as one bid conferences.

The American likes their football, but they are not willing to make the same concession they made to accept ECU Basketball.

There is thus no acceptable home available for Boise State Olympic sports. Thus a move to the American for Football is blocked, and will remain blocked until either the WCC or the American decides to accept Boise State Olympics. And neither appears remotely likely to happen.

Boise St football is fine in the Mt West unless and until the AAC or some future watered-down version of the PAC or XII comes calling for Boise St as an all-sports member. Within the last several years, the Mt West frequently has at least 1 and as many as 3 teams ranked in football. Basketball has a decently high profile with the likes of UNLV and San Diego St (not to mention New Mexico and Utah St are rarely slouches.)

The Mt West is not the ideal football conference but given that it is, at worst, the 10th best overall athletics Division I conference, the fit is pretty good.

I consider the MWC the No. 7 comprehensive (i.e., football playing) DI league. It's a fine conference.

(01-02-2021 10:56 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(01-02-2021 02:10 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Boise State is not interested in the WAC. The only reason the Big West (but not the Big Sky or WAC) were contacted is because they provide critical access to California schools for recruiting with ten California public school members. But it was never going to happen. The Big Sky and WAC lack the multiple California schools in the Metros of the Bay Area and SoCal which the Big West and WCC do. The WCC also features Gonzaga and BYU that would make leaving the MWC acceptable to their Basketball and other Olympic sports donors.

The WCC was never going to take them, as they are faith based, not interested in a temporary sojourner that Boise State would be, and also they do not help Gonzaga's resume appreciably -- which matters in WCC decisions. The Big West was not going to happen, and both the Big Sky and WAC are seen as even worse options as one bid conferences.

The American likes their football, but they are not willing to make the same concession they made to accept ECU Basketball.

There is thus no acceptable home available for Boise State Olympic sports. Thus a move to the American for Football is blocked, and will remain blocked until either the WCC or the American decides to accept Boise State Olympics. And neither appears remotely likely to happen.

Boise St football is fine in the Mt West unless and until the AAC or some future watered-down version of the PAC or XII comes calling for Boise St as an all-sports member. Within the last several years, the Mt West frequently has at least 1 and as many as 3 teams ranked in football. Basketball has a decently high profile with the likes of UNLV and San Diego St (not to mention New Mexico and Utah St are rarely slouches.)

The Mt West is not the ideal football conference but given that it is, at worst, the 10th best overall athletics Division I conference, the fit is pretty good.

Then there's SJSU hoops...

(01-01-2021 06:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Shrug. None of those football program even have a vote yet. Boise is hardly a "warm body" addition for the WAC. Boise would be one of the top 2 basketball programs in the WAC and the most well known/recognized name in the entire conference. This is a group of schools that is currently obsessed with making the conference membership large and stable. I think your fooling yourself if your think the WAC wouldnt add Boise in a second. If Boise was willing to go there---it would already be done. Unfortunately, I suspect Boise does not see the WAC as a stable home for Boise sports until the WAC expansion is signed, sealed and delivered.

The WAC has been burned by Boise State twice in the past, so it is not like there is any trust between the two. Boise State has established a name in football. That does not transfer over to their other sports or their academics. I don't think WAC expansion is a factor in a Boise State move to the WAC. They have to want each other and I am not really sure that they do.

The WAC went 5-2 against the MWC in the 2018-2019 season, which included a 69-67 GCU win over Boise State. The WAC is not going to quite be the pushover that you seem to think it would be if Boise State were to join. Boise State would bring another solid basketball program, to add to the other solid programs in New Mexico State, GCU, CBU, UVU, Seattle and SFA (went it is announced). I don't see them waltzing into the WAC and being a top 2 basketball program in the conference.

(01-02-2021 06:55 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 06:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Shrug. None of those football program even have a vote yet. Boise is hardly a "warm body" addition for the WAC. Boise would be one of the top 2 basketball programs in the WAC and the most well known/recognized name in the entire conference. This is a group of schools that is currently obsessed with making the conference membership large and stable. I think your fooling yourself if your think the WAC wouldnt add Boise in a second. If Boise was willing to go there---it would already be done. Unfortunately, I suspect Boise does not see the WAC as a stable home for Boise sports until the WAC expansion is signed, sealed and delivered.

The WAC has been burned by Boise State twice in the past, so it is not like there is any trust between the two. Boise State has established a name in football. That does not transfer over to their other sports or their academics. I don't think WAC expansion is a factor in a Boise State move to the WAC. They have to want each other and I am not really sure that they do.

The WAC went 5-2 against the MWC in the 2018-2019 season, which included a 69-67 GCU win over Boise State. The WAC is not going to quite be the pushover that you seem to think it would be if Boise State were to join. Boise State would bring another solid basketball program, to add to the other solid programs in New Mexico State, GCU, CBU, UVU, Seattle and SFA (went it is announced). I don't see them waltzing into the WAC and being a top 2 basketball program in the conference.

Yep. I think most people's perception of the WAC is that of a conference still looking for any warm bodies just to stay alive. IMO the WAC ended its survival struggle with the additions of DSU and Tarleton. On top of that, most of the members programs have gotten a lot better. CBU and GCU are going to heavily invest in hoops as that is their marquee sport. The WAC is in sound shape.

The WAC is trying to stabilize. I don't see how Boise helps accomplish that goal and if anything would be counterintuitive.

If Boise wants football in the AAC, they will have to pay the Big West's price or hope BYU and ESPN can work some magic on the WCC

(01-02-2021 10:56 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(01-02-2021 02:10 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Boise State is not interested in the WAC. The only reason the Big West (but not the Big Sky or WAC) were contacted is because they provide critical access to California schools for recruiting with ten California public school members. But it was never going to happen. The Big Sky and WAC lack the multiple California schools in the Metros of the Bay Area and SoCal which the Big West and WCC do. The WCC also features Gonzaga and BYU that would make leaving the MWC acceptable to their Basketball and other Olympic sports donors.

The WCC was never going to take them, as they are faith based, not interested in a temporary sojourner that Boise State would be, and also they do not help Gonzaga's resume appreciably -- which matters in WCC decisions. The Big West was not going to happen, and both the Big Sky and WAC are seen as even worse options as one bid conferences.

The American likes their football, but they are not willing to make the same concession they made to accept ECU Basketball.

There is thus no acceptable home available for Boise State Olympic sports. Thus a move to the American for Football is blocked, and will remain blocked until either the WCC or the American decides to accept Boise State Olympics. And neither appears remotely likely to happen.

Boise St football is fine in the Mt West unless and until the AAC or some future watered-down version of the PAC or XII comes calling for Boise St as an all-sports member. Within the last several years, the Mt West frequently has at least 1 and as many as 3 teams ranked in football. Basketball has a decently high profile with the likes of UNLV and San Diego St (not to mention New Mexico and Utah St are rarely slouches.)

The Mt West is not the ideal football conference but given that it is, at worst, the 10th best overall athletics Division I conference, the fit is pretty good.

Boise can afford to stay in the MWC for 5 or 6 years until their sweetheart TV deal comes to an end. Its prep time to check out that move and get set up for the end of the current TV contract. By then you might see another realignment period when the B-12 tv contract expires.

Though they have not been mentioned in the emails. It still looks to me like the Big Sky Conference would be the logical place for Boise State's Olympic sports. But with the WAC's resurgence the WAC may ultimately be the best home for them.

(01-02-2021 06:55 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Boise State would bring another solid basketball program, to add to the other solid programs in New Mexico State, GCU, CBU, UVU, Seattle and SFA (went it is announced).

Stephen F. Austin is joining the WAC?

Boise State hires Jeramiah Dickey as athletic director. Comes from Baylor, with stops in Houston, Akron and UTEP. Kellen Moore also signed an extension with the Dallas Cowboys, so Andy Avalos looks primed to be the favorite and next head coach.

(01-03-2021 10:48 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Boise State hires Jeramiah Dickey as athletic director. Comes from Baylor, with stops in Houston, Akron and UTEP. Kellen Moore also signed an extension with the Dallas Cowboys, so Andy Avalos looks primed to be the favorite and next head coach.

Big bummer on no Kellen Moore.

(01-03-2021 12:30 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 10:48 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Boise State hires Jeramiah Dickey as athletic director. Comes from Baylor, with stops in Houston, Akron and UTEP. Kellen Moore also signed an extension with the Dallas Cowboys, so Andy Avalos looks primed to be the favorite and next head coach.

Big bummer on no Kellen Moore.

I figured Moore was a done deal. You know—-after yesterday’s surprise firing, a wild card there could be Tom Herman. Dickey was part of the Houston AD staff that ran the search that landed Herman—and then he worked with the guy for the next two years—so they know each other. Frankly, I think Herman could be a really good fit in Boise. It’s also worth noting Herman grew up in California and played college football there. So recruiting California wouldn’t be totally alien to the guy. At any rate, it’s a intriguing thought.

(01-03-2021 12:47 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 12:30 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 10:48 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Boise State hires Jeramiah Dickey as athletic director. Comes from Baylor, with stops in Houston, Akron and UTEP. Kellen Moore also signed an extension with the Dallas Cowboys, so Andy Avalos looks primed to be the favorite and next head coach.

Big bummer on no Kellen Moore.

I figured Moore was a done deal. You know—-after yesterday’s surprise firing, a wild card there could be Tom Herman. Dickey was part of the Houston AD staff that ran the search that landed Herman—and then he worked with the guy for the next two years—so they know each other. Frankly, I think Herman could be a really good fit in Boise. It’s also worth noting Herman grew up in California and played college football there. So recruiting California wouldn’t be totally alien to the guy. At any rate, it’s a intriguing thought.

Herman did a great job at Houston but not at UT. Charlie Strong did a great job at Louisville, but not at UT or USF. You never know.

(12-30-2020 02:13 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-30-2020 01:59 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-30-2020 01:17 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Boise has invested way too much in their Olympic Sports to throw them away. They want them to be as big time as Memphis or Cincy, not as small time as Long Beach State or Idaho. This is why they pressed the American for all sports inclusion. The WCC is probably the minimum they'd consider, but even that is a step down from the Mountain West (everyone else than Gonzaga). Unlike the Big Sky Boise has a real Arena and belongs in an Arena league not a gym league.

It was the American that balked at travel to Boise, not Boise who balked at travel to the American for Basketball and Volleyball.

Boise is more than double the budget of Idaho and Idaho State, and their donation base triple. The days of level playing field are long gone, as in over a generation and a half, maybe two full generations.

They pressed the AAC for an all sports invite when it became clear Big West and WCC were clearly not going to quickly emerge as options (and might never emerge as options---but that is not known yet). Like I said---this will be revisited in after the Covid crisis has eased. By then---I suspect the WAC will have emerged as a viable home if the WCC and Big West still have no interest.

The WCC would not be interested. They are all privates. The Big West unlikely to be interested. Hawaii offers Hawaii. And they are good in similar sports. I don't know what Boise offers the Big West other than a long road trip. MVC would not be interested. WAC would gladly take them. Don't know about the Big Sky.

Boise offers the 2020s Big West money, geographic balance that reduces travel subs for Hawaii*, allows for more ooc flexibility and perhaps, a conduit for scheduling agreements with the AAC.

* Boise enables a north/south divisional setup with one non-CA member in each. Boise in the north, Hawaii in the south. Back to 16 conference games in volleyball and basketball, just like Boise's previous stint in the late 90s.

Since they aren't obligated to provide a travel subsidy to UCSD (south), Cal State Bakersfield (north) or Boise (north), Hawaii's travel subs will be reduced in volleyball and basketball by at least 12.5% every year and in some years, as much as 37.5%. Soccer and softball travel costs will also be reduced for Hawaii in most years due to not having a full robin schedule.

There's more positives to their return than not.

I think the time has past. Boise's star is fading a bit in Football. They are not the program they were in 2003-8 era. In 5 years this will be even more evident.

HawaiiMongoose, you have been following Rainbow Warrior and Wahine athletics for a long time. Did UH ever have a bad encounter with Boise or their fans when you were both in the WAC? I get the sense that you are lukewarm at best, about the possibility of sharing a conference with them again in all sports. Be it in either the Big West or Mountain West.