Big Sky seems to be a perfect geographic fit with nearly half the league in Idaho and Montana. The savings on travel costs would likely make up for a good chunk of the lost revenue share.

Maybe Boise is unsure if a move to the AAC is really worth it? They currently have a slightly easier path to the NY6, and there isn't that much of a gap between leagues isn't that great in the eyes of the powers that be.

(01-01-2021 08:14 AM)JTApps1 Wrote:  Big Sky seems to be a perfect geographic fit with nearly half the league in Idaho and Montana. The savings on travel costs would likely make up for a good chunk of the lost revenue share.

True, and they would probably get 5 NCAA bids in the next 6 years by playing in the Big Sky.

(12-30-2020 07:00 PM)solohawks Wrote:  It probably is simply the price of admission isn't worth it for Boise St this time.

See, I get the impression this is the meat of the issue. The Big West is fine with taking them. But it comes at a price to Boise. Same conditions as before.

And if that’s the case, then Boise is overthinking this, imo. Take the darn hit, pay up, park hoops in a somewhat decent spot, and let your football run with the possibly best non-major football conference, which wants them.

I’m just tired of hearing about their unhappiness. Still too much drama for a school with really no pull.

(01-01-2021 10:04 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(12-30-2020 07:00 PM)solohawks Wrote:  It probably is simply the price of admission isn't worth it for Boise St this time.

The Big West is fine with taking them. But it comes at a price to Boise.

And if that’s the case, then Boise is overthinking this, imo. Take the darn hit, pay up, park hoops in a somewhat decent spot, and let your football run with the possibly best non-major football conference, which wants them.

Absolutely. In other words, "bleep or get off the bleep!"

A few thoughts:

* The AAC seemingly does not want Boise's Olympic sports ...

... * however, the AAC might be fine with Boise's Olympic sports if, say, BYU and San Diego State also were joining for all sports.

* Boise men's hoops seems very respectable

* If I'm Boise, I do NOT want my football in one league and all other sports in another. That is a bad model.

(01-01-2021 10:25 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  A few thoughts:

* The AAC seemingly does not want Boise's Olympic sports ...

... * however, the AAC might be fine with Boise's Olympic sports if, say, BYU and San Diego State also were joining for all sports.

* Boise men's hoops seems very respectable

* If I'm Boise, I do NOT want my football in one league and all other sports in another. That is a bad model.

That model is working okay for Hawaii and Navy.

(01-01-2021 10:36 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 10:25 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  A few thoughts:

* The AAC seemingly does not want Boise's Olympic sports ...

... * however, the AAC might be fine with Boise's Olympic sports if, say, BYU and San Diego State also were joining for all sports.

* Boise men's hoops seems very respectable

* If I'm Boise, I do NOT want my football in one league and all other sports in another. That is a bad model.

That model is working okay for Hawaii and Navy.

Good point and I agree. I simply don't see Boise's Olympic sports being "as good" a fit in whichever Western-based league as I do Hawaii's in the Big West and Navy's in the Patriot. But I suppose I could be proved wrong.

I've heard that Boise has good sheep-herding and coyote-shooting teams.

(01-01-2021 10:36 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 10:25 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  A few thoughts:

* The AAC seemingly does not want Boise's Olympic sports ...

... * however, the AAC might be fine with Boise's Olympic sports if, say, BYU and San Diego State also were joining for all sports.

* Boise men's hoops seems very respectable

* If I'm Boise, I do NOT want my football in one league and all other sports in another. That is a bad model.

That model is working okay for Hawaii and Navy.

Maybe it could be a PR issue for Boise State also. They were selling themselves as a P5 school a few years ago and now the AAC is telling them that their olympic sports aren't worth anything to them and they just want it's football. What happens if the Big 12 or Pac 12 actually try to expand? While Boise State could argue it upgraded it's football schedule it's olympic sports schedule could drop down. If they don't win from the start they could think it hurts the selling point of the school. The only lateral move is to the WCC.

(01-01-2021 11:01 AM)colohank Wrote:  I've heard that Boise has good sheep-herding and coyote-shooting teams.

What about competitive truck driving?

(01-01-2021 01:45 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 01:32 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 01:26 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 01:08 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 12:50 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  Not necessarily. Boise seems to explore every available option before making a decision, which can be very time consuming.

However, it does seem surprising that they've as yet been unable to seal the AAC deal by switching BB/olympics to a western conference, given that the Big Sky would probably take them in.

Maybe the AAC deal only makes fiscal sense to them if their BB program can generate $1-2 million/year, which wouldn't be possible in the Big Sky(?)

Does anyone know how much revenue a BB/olympic school can earn in the WAC? Is it mostly about the revenue, or does it have more to do with the quality of the competition or access to recruiting territory?

Agreed, but it's not like Boise hasn't done this before. My guess is the WCC is probably the only conference that has the potential for them to hit that revenue goal.

Makes sense. If the AAC payments to Wichita are in the $2 million+ range, as rumored, then the WCC might be the only western non-FBS conference that can pay much more than $1 million per school.

If the revenues from the WAC are closer to the $500 K range, or even lower, and if the Big Sky revenues are closer to the $200 K range, then a refusal to make the jump to the AAC for FB simply because they would lose a few hundred thousand income would seem puzzling, unless the loss of the BB revenue, itself, is enough to make the switch to the AAC less than worthwhile.

If Boise were to make the switch for FB, their conference revenues would be about the MWC average for all-sports members, and their travel costs would increase somewhat. So perhaps they simply can't afford to do without the BB revenue (?).

I agree. FB drives the bus. The idea that Boise is sweating a few hundred K over "the right" Oly sports home if they have a FB invite from the AAC in hand is ridiculous. Boise can also choose to cut budget in the Oly sports once it becomes obvious (if it isn't already) that the AAC has no interest in their Oly sports.

They already cut baseball and swimming & diving.

So they have the same Oly offerings as most Big Sky programs. Wonderful.

(01-01-2021 11:03 AM)46566 Wrote:  Maybe it could be a PR issue for Boise State also. They were selling themselves as a P5 school a few years ago and now the AAC is telling them that their olympic sports aren't worth anything to them and they just want it's football. What happens if the Big 12 or Pac 12 actually try to expand? While Boise State could argue it upgraded it's football schedule it's olympic sports schedule could drop down. If they don't win from the start they could think it hurts the selling point of the school. The only lateral move is to the WCC.

Boise won't be a Pac12 consideration even if they were a full AAC member.

(01-01-2021 11:36 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 01:45 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 01:32 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 01:26 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 01:08 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Agreed, but it's not like Boise hasn't done this before. My guess is the WCC is probably the only conference that has the potential for them to hit that revenue goal.

Makes sense. If the AAC payments to Wichita are in the $2 million+ range, as rumored, then the WCC might be the only western non-FBS conference that can pay much more than $1 million per school.

If the revenues from the WAC are closer to the $500 K range, or even lower, and if the Big Sky revenues are closer to the $200 K range, then a refusal to make the jump to the AAC for FB simply because they would lose a few hundred thousand income would seem puzzling, unless the loss of the BB revenue, itself, is enough to make the switch to the AAC less than worthwhile.

If Boise were to make the switch for FB, their conference revenues would be about the MWC average for all-sports members, and their travel costs would increase somewhat. So perhaps they simply can't afford to do without the BB revenue (?).

I agree. FB drives the bus. The idea that Boise is sweating a few hundred K over "the right" Oly sports home if they have a FB invite from the AAC in hand is ridiculous. Boise can also choose to cut budget in the Oly sports once it becomes obvious (if it isn't already) that the AAC has no interest in their Oly sports.

They already cut baseball and swimming & diving.

So they have the same Oly offerings as most Big Sky programs. Wonderful.

Not quite. Boise also has gymnastics, beach volleyball and men's golf. The Big Sky only has five current full members with men's golf; it includes Binghamton and Hartford as affiliates.

Incidentally, the Big West and WCC sponsor beach volleyball

(01-01-2021 11:57 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Not quite. Boise also has gymnastics, beach volleyball and men's golf. The Big Sky only has five current full members with men's golf; it includes Binghamton and Hartford as affiliates.

Incidentally, the Big West and WCC sponsor beach volleyball

Sac State has all those sports. Their gym would be parked in the MPSF, golf would go to BSC, no idea on if the BW would take in their Beach VB. I have no idea what other BVB conference are out there and if they are looking for members.

(01-01-2021 11:03 AM)46566 Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 10:36 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 10:25 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  A few thoughts:

* The AAC seemingly does not want Boise's Olympic sports ...

... * however, the AAC might be fine with Boise's Olympic sports if, say, BYU and San Diego State also were joining for all sports.

* Boise men's hoops seems very respectable

* If I'm Boise, I do NOT want my football in one league and all other sports in another. That is a bad model.

That model is working okay for Hawaii and Navy.

Maybe it could be a PR issue for Boise State also. They were selling themselves as a P5 school a few years ago and now the AAC is telling them that their olympic sports aren't worth anything to them and they just want it's football. What happens if the Big 12 or Pac 12 actually try to expand? While Boise State could argue it upgraded it's football schedule it's olympic sports schedule could drop down. If they don't win from the start they could think it hurts the selling point of the school. The only lateral move is to the WCC.

Excellent points. I would not want dual conference affiliations if I'm Boise.

Here are the sports that Boise sponsors that require travel to more than just the conference tournament

M Basketball
M Tennis
W Basketball
W Tennis
Softball
W Volleyball
W Beach Volleyball
W Soccer

(01-01-2021 12:18 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 11:03 AM)46566 Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 10:36 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 10:25 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  A few thoughts:

* The AAC seemingly does not want Boise's Olympic sports ...

... * however, the AAC might be fine with Boise's Olympic sports if, say, BYU and San Diego State also were joining for all sports.

* Boise men's hoops seems very respectable

* If I'm Boise, I do NOT want my football in one league and all other sports in another. That is a bad model.

That model is working okay for Hawaii and Navy.

Maybe it could be a PR issue for Boise State also. They were selling themselves as a P5 school a few years ago and now the AAC is telling them that their olympic sports aren't worth anything to them and they just want it's football. What happens if the Big 12 or Pac 12 actually try to expand? While Boise State could argue it upgraded it's football schedule it's olympic sports schedule could drop down. If they don't win from the start they could think it hurts the selling point of the school. The only lateral move is to the WCC.

Excellent points. I would not want dual conference affiliations if I'm Boise.

Its not that Boise's Olympic sports suck...they are simply a geographical outlier. If they were in Birmingham instead of Boise they would be in the AAC as a full member

(01-01-2021 10:25 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  A few thoughts:

* The AAC seemingly does not want Boise's Olympic sports ...

... * however, the AAC might be fine with Boise's Olympic sports if, say, BYU and San Diego State also were joining for all sports.

* Boise men's hoops seems very respectable

* If I'm Boise, I do NOT want my football in one league and all other sports in another. That is a bad model.

In my opinion, this is the most likely scenario. And that may be why it is taking so long to make it happen.

(01-01-2021 03:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 03:00 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(12-31-2020 03:29 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  In my opinion, the league is perfectly positioned for a growth spurt. What do they gain? Greater notoriety in their own sphere, but adding a few more stalwart programs could really give them some attention back East beyond just everyone tuning in for Gonzaga. Boise State basketball has been getting better and they're a recognizable brand. San Diego State would be in the same category...assuming there's a way to get them into the AAC as well for a football deal. What if Seattle could be talked into going back?

The WCC is in a position to become a more recognizable force in basketball.

Boise State is a football brand, not a basketball brand. Boise State brings nothing to the WCC. In November of 2018, they lost at home to Idaho State in basketball, 72-70. They paid Idaho State $90,000 to drive down to Boise and take their money and a win. Four days earlier, Idaho State lost at Gonzaga, 120-79.

Gonzaga has not played Boise State in basketball in 20 years. They do not have much in common. Gonzaga is private and has a better academic reputation. Gonzaga does not play football. Boise State does not have a men’s soccer or baseball team, a couple of important sports in an Olympic sports league.

Boise State has lost at least one game to each conference in the west over the past two seasons. Gonzaga is great in basketball. Boise State is okay. There are much better candidates in the west than Boise State if the WCC is interested in expansion.

Boise would probably be the third or 4th best program in the WCC if they joined. Zags, BYU, and St Marys would all be considered better. In fact, I suspect Boise would be in the top 3 depending on the year. Boise is 6-1 this year including a win over a 9-2 BYU team. Boise has won 20 games a year every season but one since 2012. Boise would be a solid upper tier addition to the WCC. So, the Boise program would be a nice addition for the WCC---the problem is--as others have mentioned---Boise isnt really a great institutional fit.

That said, the idea of adding solid quality upper tier depth to the WCC while subtracting quality basketball depth from the MW might have a certain amount of appeal to WCC members who remember that the MW made a run at poaching Zags just a couple of years ago. That failed poaching attempt ended up costing every member (other than Zags) money. Those other members basically had to give Gonzaga a "special deal" that awarded Zags a larger cut of conference revenue. Its not impossible that those same schools might enjoy sticking it to the MW. My guess is that Boise will not get a WCC invite---but there are reasons to think its not completely out of the question Boise might find a home there.

https://apnews.com/article/275680042f9e4...4fbca0ff10

Gonzaga got a bigger share of the revenue because they deserved it. Before that, they were splitting revenue with schools that were contributing nothing. Boise State went 20-12 in 2019-2020 with a Net Ranking of 90. Not bad, but Gonzaga had the No. 1 Net Ranking last season, BYU No. 9, St. Mary's No. 31 and USF No. 83. Boise State was 13-20 in 2018-2019 with a Net Ranking of 149. They have not been to the tournament since 2015 and have never won a tournament game. But they usually win 20 games and they get the most out of the talent they recruit. In 2019-2020, they ranked 9th in basketball recruiting in the MWC.

I can't see a reason for the WCC to add Boise State other than as a favor to them and the AAC. They don't check any boxes. If the WCC doesn't care about academics, why not add GCU. They check a lot of boxes. Seattle or CBU or Denver would make more sense. It feels like the best fit for Boise State is the Big Sky Conference. If the BSC wants them, they should do it and end the drama. At this point, if Boise State and the AAC want to get married for football, then any D1 conference for Olympic sports should do. Everyone makes sacrifices in a marriage.

(01-01-2021 04:21 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 03:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-01-2021 03:00 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(12-31-2020 03:29 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  In my opinion, the league is perfectly positioned for a growth spurt. What do they gain? Greater notoriety in their own sphere, but adding a few more stalwart programs could really give them some attention back East beyond just everyone tuning in for Gonzaga. Boise State basketball has been getting better and they're a recognizable brand. San Diego State would be in the same category...assuming there's a way to get them into the AAC as well for a football deal. What if Seattle could be talked into going back?

The WCC is in a position to become a more recognizable force in basketball.

Boise State is a football brand, not a basketball brand. Boise State brings nothing to the WCC. In November of 2018, they lost at home to Idaho State in basketball, 72-70. They paid Idaho State $90,000 to drive down to Boise and take their money and a win. Four days earlier, Idaho State lost at Gonzaga, 120-79.

Gonzaga has not played Boise State in basketball in 20 years. They do not have much in common. Gonzaga is private and has a better academic reputation. Gonzaga does not play football. Boise State does not have a men’s soccer or baseball team, a couple of important sports in an Olympic sports league.

Boise State has lost at least one game to each conference in the west over the past two seasons. Gonzaga is great in basketball. Boise State is okay. There are much better candidates in the west than Boise State if the WCC is interested in expansion.

Boise would probably be the third or 4th best program in the WCC if they joined. Zags, BYU, and St Marys would all be considered better. In fact, I suspect Boise would be in the top 3 depending on the year. Boise is 6-1 this year including a win over a 9-2 BYU team. Boise has won 20 games a year every season but one since 2012. Boise would be a solid upper tier addition to the WCC. So, the Boise program would be a nice addition for the WCC---the problem is--as others have mentioned---Boise isnt really a great institutional fit.

That said, the idea of adding solid quality upper tier depth to the WCC while subtracting quality basketball depth from the MW might have a certain amount of appeal to WCC members who remember that the MW made a run at poaching Zags just a couple of years ago. That failed poaching attempt ended up costing every member (other than Zags) money. Those other members basically had to give Gonzaga a "special deal" that awarded Zags a larger cut of conference revenue. Its not impossible that those same schools might enjoy sticking it to the MW. My guess is that Boise will not get a WCC invite---but there are reasons to think its not completely out of the question Boise might find a home there.

https://apnews.com/article/275680042f9e4...4fbca0ff10

Gonzaga got a bigger share of the revenue because they deserved it. Before that, they were splitting revenue with schools that were contributing nothing. Boise State went 20-12 in 2019-2020 with a Net Ranking of 90. Not bad, but Gonzaga had the No. 1 Net Ranking last season, BYU No. 9, St. Mary's No. 31 and USF No. 83. Boise State was 13-20 in 2018-2019 with a Net Ranking of 149. They have not been to the tournament since 2015 and have never won a tournament game. But they usually win 20 games and they get the most out of the talent they recruit. In 2019-2020, they ranked 9th in basketball recruiting in the MWC.

I can't see a reason for the WCC to add Boise State other than as a favor to them and the AAC. They don't check any boxes. If the WCC doesn't care about academics, why not add GCU. They check a lot of boxes. Seattle or CBU or Denver would make more sense. It feels like the best fit for Boise State is the Big Sky Conference. If the BSC wants them, they should do it and end the drama. At this point, if Boise State and the AAC want to get married for football, then any D1 conference for Olympic sports should do. Everyone makes sacrifices in a marriage.

The Big Sky would be a natural for Boise, but if ESPN is in the driver’s seat and the Big Sky is not an ESPN conference, they may go wherever ESPN says.