(10-06-2020 01:39 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 01:26 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Big Sky does not want another FCS conference in their backyard.

Enlighten us as to why you think that

I thought they'd be happy to gain a new regional scheduling partner. They wouldn't worry about losing members to the WAC. If anything, Big Sky is bloated & could stand to shed a few members. The foundational members want to get back to playing each other on an annual basis.

It's probably been hashed out here, but why wouldn't the Big West schools move football to the WAC? It gives them an easier path to the playoffs. Their main affiliation remains the Big West, so academic prestige is NBD.

That's one scenario where I could see SUU following. They'd have to move olympic sports to the WAC. In exchange for the prestige downgrade, they join a voting group with a couple of UT peers & maintain their footprint in CA while gaining one in TX. That's a great setup if sports are the "front porch of the university". UVU, Dixie & SUU are all growing brands looking to draw students from out of state.

This is all getting pretty outlandish. Hard to say if SUU would make that move. But they'd do it before Weber, which is more settled into its niche as an institution, a founding member of the Big Sky & a commuter school that does a good job serving locals.

(10-07-2020 02:27 PM)ManleyPointer Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 01:39 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(10-06-2020 01:26 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Big Sky does not want another FCS conference in their backyard.

Enlighten us as to why you think that

I thought they'd be happy to gain a new regional scheduling partner. They wouldn't worry about losing members to the WAC. If anything, Big Sky is bloated & could stand to shed a few members. The foundational members want to get back to playing each other on an annual basis.

It's probably been hashed out here, but why wouldn't the Big West schools move football to the WAC? It gives them an easier path to the playoffs. Their main affiliation remains the Big West, so academic prestige is NBD.

That's one scenario where I could see SUU following. They'd have to move olympic sports to the WAC. In exchange for the prestige downgrade, they join a voting group with a couple of UT peers & maintain their footprint in CA while gaining one in TX. That's a great setup if sports are the "front porch of the university". UVU, Dixie & SUU are all growing brands looking to draw students from out of state.

This is all getting pretty outlandish. Hard to say if SUU would make that move. But they'd do it before Weber, which is more settled into its niche as an institution, a founding member of the Big Sky & a commuter school that does a good job serving locals.

I've already posted this on the WAC board, but for those who haven't been following the discussion there, I ran across this article from a year ago on the football facilities "arms race" in the Big Sky.

https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/sp...ac503.html

What jumped out to me were comments made by Southern Utah's head football coach Demario Warren. Here's the excerpt:

Southern Utah opened the over 8,000-square-foot, $1.8 million George S. Eccles Sports Performance Center used for weight training and nutrition in November 2018.

Still, even with that, SUU head coach Demario Warren admitted the Thunderbirds can’t compete with the rest of the conference in facilities. If he were [Montana State head coach Jeff] Choate, he too would be trying hard to bring in money for facilities. But with limited resources, he figures, why spend it on locker rooms that aren’t going to be as nice as other teams in the conference anyway?

So when recruits visit campus, Warren emphasizes relationships and makes sure they spend time with current players.

“We focus on the things that are our strengths: our environment, lack of distractions, the people in our community,” Warren said. “We have to find guys who fit who we are. We might not get the flashy guys who care about facilities, but we get the guys who fit our program.”

If it's true that SUU has decided to jump to the WAC, maybe it's in part because the school administration has realized the playing field will be more level in a conference where its 8,500-seat football stadium will fit right in rather than being considered undersized and where its $15 million athletic budget will be among the largest rather than the smallest. The article describes current athletics-related capital projects at various Big Sky schools ranging from $5 million to $51 million. Perhaps SUU has concluded it's not willing (or not able) to try to keep up.

Southern Utah To Stay As Big Sky Member



That kills SUU to the WAC rumors.

I get the losing arms race argument but I wouldn’t be willing to pull the trigger on that move until I was sure the new conference home had an autobid for the FCS playoff.

(10-07-2020 02:58 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Southern Utah To Stay As Big Sky Member



That kills SUU to the WAC rumors.

Quote:SUU has not received an official offer to join any other conference, although the discussion comes up from time to time. We would not consider changing conferences unless it presented enhanced opportunities for our Division I student-athletes and for our SUU community.

I bet when the GM says the coach's job is safe, you consider it the gospel truth, don't you?

Could they keep football in the Big Sky? It probably saves them (and everyone in the Big Sky) on travel costs if they move their olympic sports to the WAC.

(10-07-2020 03:00 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 02:58 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Southern Utah To Stay As Big Sky Member



That kills SUU to the WAC rumors.

Quote:SUU has not received an official offer to join any other conference, although the discussion comes up from time to time. We would not consider changing conferences unless it presented enhanced opportunities for our Division I student-athletes and for our SUU community.

I bet when the GM says the coach's job is safe, you consider it the gospel truth, don't you?

Who knows if they will leave or not. However, the “denial” that Davey is hailing as 100% truth, is far from it. They could have said, “We’re not interested in the WAC at this time”, or “We appreciate the WAC’s offer, but will be staying in the Big Sky for the foreseeable future.” Their statement doesn’t convey either of those stances to me.

That response is basically the same non-committal one they already gave. It doesn't say anything new. Little ol' Davey needs to stop changing the titles of the articles he links to match what he wants to happen.

(10-07-2020 11:29 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 11:03 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(10-05-2020 12:51 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  The evasive nature of SUU's response is suspicious. If they are indeed moving to the WAC, then I'm thinking it has to be about saving money on football. An FCS WAC could be like the NEC of the west -- its FB members could all have roughly D2 numbers of FB scholarships. This would ease the burden of moving up from D2 for schools that wish to retain scholarship football (like Dixie and Tarleton), since they wouldn't actually have to increase their FB scholarship count much, if at all.

I think it might be they wanted UVU and Dixie St in the Big Sky and the Big Sky was a firm no to having 3 Utah schools in it.

That could be enough to drop out of the Big Sky.

Something more could be afoot. Maybe NMSU might be ready to move down and help build the WAC into an FCS football conference.

I sincerely doubt that SUU would be pushing for UVU and Dixie State in the Big Sky, and even if that were somehow true and the Big Sky refused, that it would compel them to leave the Big Sky.

NMSU is pretty much set on lingering in FBS. Like others have mentioned, as long as they have UNM and UTEP as annual opponents as well as some other indy hangers-on like UMass and Liberty, they can build at least a barely adequate FBS schedule around that. And if Idaho's fate is any lesson, it might be better to drop FB altogether than drop to FCS.

NMSU is not going FCS. "Barely adequate FBS schedule"? Have you seen our schedules? In 2021 alone, we play 7 games against the MWC plus UMASS, Kentucky and Alabama. Looks like a pretty good schedule to me. So do the rest of our schedules.

https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/new-mexico-state/

Someone pointed out that idaho lost donations and the pay out difference between FCS and FBS.

So the WAC decides to FBS anchored around Idaho and New Mexico State. There's your big sky school. 2 schools.

Tarletons leadership has raised athletic fees, multiple facility enhancements in the works, backed by a university system that wants them to be explode and plans to be north of 25,000 students in the next 10 years. If FBS gets you there, they want to do that. There's 3.

UTRGV completed a football study and found football non-starter if its not at the FBS level. If conference mates Tarleton and New Mexico state are FBS, its time to keep up.

Thats 4.

Liberty wants an fbs football conference. Marriage of convenience. Thats 5.

According to David and LuCardinals there are southland schoola like Lamar that want to move up. That's 6.

(10-07-2020 05:30 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  Someone pointed out that idaho lost donations and the pay out difference between FCS and FBS.

So the WAC decides to FBS anchored around Idaho and New Mexico State. There's your big sky school. 2 schools.

Tarletons leadership has raised athletic fees, multiple facility enhancements in the works, backed by a university system that wants them to be explode and plans to be north of 25,000 students in the next 10 years. If FBS gets you there, they want to do that. There's 3.

UTRGV completed a football study and found football non-starter if its not at the FBS level. If conference mates Tarleton and New Mexico state are FBS, its time to keep up.

Thats 4.

Liberty wants an fbs football conference. Marriage of convenience. Thats 5.

According to David and LuCardinals there are southland schoola like Lamar that want to move up. That's 6.

Only full members count toward the minimum of eight FBS-level football programs required for FBS conference status, so adding Liberty as an affiliate doesn't help.

(10-07-2020 05:30 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  Someone pointed out that idaho lost donations and the pay out difference between FCS and FBS.

So the WAC decides to FBS anchored around Idaho and New Mexico State. There's your big sky school. 2 schools.

Tarletons leadership has raised athletic fees, multiple facility enhancements in the works, backed by a university system that wants them to be explode and plans to be north of 25,000 students in the next 10 years. If FBS gets you there, they want to do that. There's 3.

UTRGV completed a football study and found football non-starter if its not at the FBS level. If conference mates Tarleton and New Mexico state are FBS, its time to keep up.

Thats 4.

Liberty wants an fbs football conference. Marriage of convenience. Thats 5.

According to David and LuCardinals there are southland schoola like Lamar that want to move up. That's 6.

West Texas A&M have an off campus to play, but they could go back to the original plan for a 22,000 seat stadium, and Dixie State have plans for a 15,000 seat. That is 8. You could give North Dakota State and South Dakota State as football affiliates to go to 10.

(10-07-2020 05:10 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 11:29 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 11:03 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(10-05-2020 12:51 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  The evasive nature of SUU's response is suspicious. If they are indeed moving to the WAC, then I'm thinking it has to be about saving money on football. An FCS WAC could be like the NEC of the west -- its FB members could all have roughly D2 numbers of FB scholarships. This would ease the burden of moving up from D2 for schools that wish to retain scholarship football (like Dixie and Tarleton), since they wouldn't actually have to increase their FB scholarship count much, if at all.

I think it might be they wanted UVU and Dixie St in the Big Sky and the Big Sky was a firm no to having 3 Utah schools in it.

That could be enough to drop out of the Big Sky.

Something more could be afoot. Maybe NMSU might be ready to move down and help build the WAC into an FCS football conference.

I sincerely doubt that SUU would be pushing for UVU and Dixie State in the Big Sky, and even if that were somehow true and the Big Sky refused, that it would compel them to leave the Big Sky.

NMSU is pretty much set on lingering in FBS. Like others have mentioned, as long as they have UNM and UTEP as annual opponents as well as some other indy hangers-on like UMass and Liberty, they can build at least a barely adequate FBS schedule around that. And if Idaho's fate is any lesson, it might be better to drop FB altogether than drop to FCS.

NMSU is not going FCS. "Barely adequate FBS schedule"? Have you seen our schedules? In 2021 alone, we play 7 games against the MWC plus UMASS, Kentucky and Alabama. Looks like a pretty good schedule to me. So do the rest of our schedules.

https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/new-mexico-state/

I said at least a barely adequate FBS schedule.

(10-07-2020 06:47 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 05:30 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  Someone pointed out that idaho lost donations and the pay out difference between FCS and FBS.

So the WAC decides to FBS anchored around Idaho and New Mexico State. There's your big sky school. 2 schools.

Tarletons leadership has raised athletic fees, multiple facility enhancements in the works, backed by a university system that wants them to be explode and plans to be north of 25,000 students in the next 10 years. If FBS gets you there, they want to do that. There's 3.

UTRGV completed a football study and found football non-starter if its not at the FBS level. If conference mates Tarleton and New Mexico state are FBS, its time to keep up.

Thats 4.

Liberty wants an fbs football conference. Marriage of convenience. Thats 5.

According to David and LuCardinals there are southland schoola like Lamar that want to move up. That's 6.

Only full members count toward the minimum of eight FBS-level football programs required for FBS conference status, so adding Liberty as an affiliate doesn't help.

Could the WAC have their Olympic sports league focused in the Southwest and creates a separate WAC Football League like the Missouri Valley has done?

If so UMASS, Liberty and New Mexico State make three members with others down the road?

FBS does not allow a football-only conference to my understanding. Can someone verify this?

(10-07-2020 07:57 PM)AZcats Wrote:  FBS does not allow a football-only conference to my understanding. Can someone verify this?

This is correct. It has to be a multisport conference with 8 full, FB-playing members.

(10-07-2020 07:57 PM)AZcats Wrote:  FBS does not allow a football-only conference to my understanding. Can someone verify this?

The WAC would not be a football only conference.

I could not create the Football Conference of America with Liberty, NMSU, UConn, Michigan St, Baylor, Toledo, Eastern Michigan, and Nebraska and be a FBS conference.

(10-07-2020 08:04 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 07:57 PM)AZcats Wrote:  FBS does not allow a football-only conference to my understanding. Can someone verify this?

This is correct. It has to be a multisport conference with 8 full, FB-playing members.

Utah Valley and Grand Canyon could add football. Not sure how fast UVU gets to an FBS level that quickly. Grand Canyon could rent the University of Phoenix stadium for FBS games. Central Oklahoma and Midwestern State are close to FBS level stadiums.

(10-07-2020 08:04 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 07:57 PM)AZcats Wrote:  FBS does not allow a football-only conference to my understanding. Can someone verify this?

This is correct. It has to be a multisport conference with 8 full, FB-playing members.

Thanks, I heard it some time ago from a long forgotten who or what. Now I know it officially.

(10-07-2020 08:36 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 08:04 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-07-2020 07:57 PM)AZcats Wrote:  FBS does not allow a football-only conference to my understanding. Can someone verify this?

This is correct. It has to be a multisport conference with 8 full, FB-playing members.

Utah Valley and Grand Canyon could add football. Not sure how fast UVU gets to an FBS level that quickly. Grand Canyon could rent the University of Phoenix stadium for FBS games. Central Oklahoma and Midwestern State are close to FBS level stadiums.

Was it ever believed that UVU or Grand Canyon were prohibited from adding football?
To say they "could" add it kind of goes without saying.

The Football Fairy COULD also descend upon the Western US and magically create little FBS havens of happiness out of unicorn fur and gold dust. And the NFL could add an expansion team in every haven and provide a stadium for all of the little football fantasy lands. Well, they could lol.

I think Community Christian needs some additional monitoring. Please go take care of that for us, we're all dying to know about their latest branch.