Dang Zombie WAC coming back strong if they can pull this off.

If they can get SUU you gotta think NAU would be a lot more willing as they would be a major outlier. Throw in the two FCS schools they have and West Texas and that would put you at 5. Would NMSU be willing to pull and Idaho and downgrade to a stable geographically friendly FCS?

(10-02-2020 09:42 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Dang Zombie WAC coming back strong if they can pull this off.

If they can get SUU you gotta think NAU would be a lot more willing as they would be a major outlier. Throw in the two FCS schools they have and West Texas and that would put you at 5. Would NMSU be willing to pull and Idaho and downgrade to a stable geographically friendly FCS?

NMSU won’t drop to FCS as long as UNM and UTEP are on the schedule. Playing those two plus a combination of BYU, UConn, UMass, Liberty, MWC, C-USA, Sun Belt, two pay games and a FCS game is doable for independent NMSU.

Stupid thought here but if you are looking for WAC football why not go for the football affiliates in the Big Sky? While Cal Poly and UC Davis gain more from the Big Sky could the Wac try to sweeten the pot by guaranteeing maybe a set amount of home games for other sports? Something like basketball or baseball. is there anyway to maybe try and lure San Diego from the Pioneer conference?

You have 3 D1 football schools in California with San Diego, UC Davis and Cal Poly plus Dixie State in utah plus Tarelton state in Texas. Picking up a school with football gets them 6. Wouldn't adding 2 teams get them 7 for football and 11 all sports members? They would have 6 conference games, 1 buy game from division 2, at least 1 Big Sky opponent the possibility of 1 or 2 buy games from FBS teams a year. If they go 1,1,2 it gives them a spare game to play a home and away series with another FCS team.

The WAC might be back as a FCS conference.

But bringing back FBS football is almost impossible. The only way it could happen is if Montana and Montana State decide to move up to FBS and bring some schools with them. That would solve NMSU's struggle as an independent. But I don't see it happening although if there's something I learned the last two decades in realignment is to expect the unexpected. I'll be David St.esque and type this:

Montana
Montana State
Idaho
Idaho State
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Northern Arizona
Northern Colorado
Cal Poly
Eastern Washington
West Texas A&M
Tarleton State

You just need five of those schools join Montana and Montana State with NMSU in the WAC. 8 schools maybe nine. But the Montana schools have made it clear they would rather stay FCS. That's when the WAC inquired if they were interested and had to settle with UTSA and Texas State instead.

Big Sky article earlier this year talked about the Big Sky Conference may invite Dixie State to their conference. With the WAC talking about inviting Big Sky members? All they could do is invite Dixie State as full member. That would give them 12 full members and 2 affiliates in football.

I’m not one to buy into the idea that the Big Sky will have members that will voluntarily be shuffled to the WAC but if they did, the Big Sky’s 13 football schools and the WAC’s make 16—divide in half and you’ve got 2 conference of 8.

Send over affiliates UC Davis and Cal Poly and full members Sac St, NAU, and SUU.

Trade Seattle to the Big Sky.

Big Sky: Portland St, EWU, Idaho, Idaho St, Weber St, Montana, Montana St, N Colorado
+non-fb Seattle

WAC: Sac St, SUU, Dixie St, NAU, WTAMU, Tarleton St
+non football Cal Baptist, UVU, GCU, NMSU, UTRGV
+ fb only UC Davis, Cal Poly

Dixie State As Possible Big Sky Expansion Thread

Already reported that the Commish is already interested in Dixie State before Dixie State played a year in the WAC. There is no way for Southern Utah going to the WAC.

(10-02-2020 05:08 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(10-02-2020 04:42 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-02-2020 04:21 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(10-02-2020 04:07 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(10-02-2020 12:18 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I did not know that about NAIA.

As to Trevecca, it seems the move to NCAAD2 has been a success in terms of bolstering enrollment. There were 3,000-plus students at the college in fall 2016. By spring 2020 ...almost 4,000. Obviously, lots of increase can be attributed to things other than sports. But it's worth noting.

That 4000 figure includes a ton of grad students. I'm not sure what the breakdown is. Traditionally, undergrads are what matters for evaluating appropriate athletic associations/divisions. I don't know Trevecca's splits now or historically. Just as a reference NAIA Cumberlands (KY) has 18k students, most of which are grad students. The NAIA lists them at 1760 undergrads.

Trevecca's undergraduate enrollment in 2014 was 1,115
2018 was 1,463
2019 was 1,541

They started playing an NCAA schedule in 2013. So there has been some growth but not what the gross enrollment numbers indicate.

Fewer than I realized. Good find.

I sometimes wonder if Trevecca wants eventually to be DI-AA. The campus is geographically large and the school eventually might want to have 5,000 students (4,000 now) from what I've heard. If the "move up" is truly the end game, then being D2 now is the price to be paid.

If TNU were DI-AA, Nashville/Davidson County would have five such athletic programs (to join Belmont, Tennessee State, Lipscomb and Vanderbilt). Would be unusual for a county of no more than 700,000 people.

Having said that, I doubt TNU moves up. Too many challenges.

Good to know. Many of us NAIA people have speculated that they might move back to the NAIA because it's a better fit for a 1600 student college, but a D1 move would be a decent rationale for not doing so. But like you said, it would be a challenge. They might think "hey, we're 4-5k students strong" but they are mostly grad students. How does a private school pay for D1 athletic expenses? By rolling it into the cost of tuition. But if you do that to grad students you become uncompetitive with other grad school's tuition. Their endowment is only 22m. That's actually pretty good for an NAIA school but minuscule for a D1.

Trevecca is a somewhat "unusual animal" in that it is located in a city with two other fast-growing and changing Christian universities. As such, there is a "friendly competition" that likely results in the three (Belmont and Lipscomb being the other two) being more ambitious than otherwise.

The changes at the three in the last 15 years or so have been nothing short of dramatic. For example, Lipscomb has transitioned such that it now has a student population of roughly 22% to 25% non-white. This would have been unthinkable as recently as 2000.

Similarly, Belmont (at which my brother and I once taught part-time) now has 8,000 students (many of whom are not particularly religious), up from 3,000 about 40 years ago. The growth and changes on the campus ... stunning.

Trevecca does not have the resources of BU and LU, but it does offer lots of positives. It clearly could differentiate itself from Belmont and Lipscomb were its athletics program to go DI-AA and field a non-scholarship football program. But, again, I struggle to see that happening.

I remember seeing an announcement that Trevecca will be fielding football soon.

(10-03-2020 10:25 AM)teamvsn Wrote:  I remember seeing an announcement that Trevecca will be fielding football soon.

Trevecca Adding Football


It would be nice if they did add football which could draw underclassmen.

(10-03-2020 10:59 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 10:25 AM)teamvsn Wrote:  I remember seeing an announcement that Trevecca will be fielding football soon.

Trevecca Adding Football


It would be nice if they did add football which could draw underclassmen.

LOL :D

(10-02-2020 09:42 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Dang Zombie WAC coming back strong if they can pull this off.

If they can get SUU you gotta think NAU would be a lot more willing as they would be a major outlier. Throw in the two FCS schools they have and West Texas and that would put you at 5. Would NMSU be willing to pull and Idaho and downgrade to a stable geographically friendly FCS?

NAU has been a Member of the Big Sky since 1970. NAU has always been an outlier. Yes, we lobbied for SUU to give us a close conference game, but being an outlier isn't a make or break situation, especially since:

A) More academic/school peers in the Big Sky
B) Travel will be big regardless
C) No real reason to move

Matt Brown's response to the SUU statement:

https://twitter.com/MattBrownEP/status/1...8064164867

(10-05-2020 11:59 AM)Inkblot Wrote:  Matt Brown's response to the SUU statement:

https://twitter.com/MattBrownEP/status/1...8064164867

Interesting.
With UVU and Dixie St in the WAC. I can see why SUU would move to the WAC. Not mention they would be in a higher caliber conference.

(10-05-2020 12:15 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(10-05-2020 11:59 AM)Inkblot Wrote:  Matt Brown's response to the SUU statement:

https://twitter.com/MattBrownEP/status/1...8064164867

Interesting.
With UVU and Dixie St in the WAC. I can see why SUU would move to the WAC. Not mention they would be in a higher caliber conference.

The WAC is a higher caliber conference than the Big Sky? Perhaps in basketball, but that's like a "tallest midget" scenario -- both are still one-bid leagues. So I don't think that outweighs how unstable the WAC is. And travel for non-FB sports is a wash. The Big Sky is one of the top football conferences in FCS along with the MVFC and CAA. I suppose if SUU is considering dropping at least some FB scholarships (or FB altogether), then moving to the WAC would make at least some sense. They might be no longer welcome by the Big Sky due to either not having FB or not having sufficient FB scholarships.

If I’m SUU I’m not going to the WAC alone. I’m not moving unless they have everything lined up to have a full FCS conference.

The evasive nature of SUU's response is suspicious. If they are indeed moving to the WAC, then I'm thinking it has to be about saving money on football. An FCS WAC could be like the NEC of the west -- its FB members could all have roughly D2 numbers of FB scholarships. This would ease the burden of moving up from D2 for schools that wish to retain scholarship football (like Dixie and Tarleton), since they wouldn't actually have to increase their FB scholarship count much, if at all.

(10-05-2020 12:15 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(10-05-2020 11:59 AM)Inkblot Wrote:  Matt Brown's response to the SUU statement:

https://twitter.com/MattBrownEP/status/1...8064164867

Interesting.
With UVU and Dixie St in the WAC. I can see why SUU would move to the WAC. Not mention they would be in a higher caliber conference.

Not sure that it would be of much benefit to them. Having to fight New Mexico State for the WAC's one bid is going to be tougher than competing for the Big Sky's one bid.

(10-05-2020 11:59 AM)Inkblot Wrote:  Matt Brown's response to the SUU statement:

https://twitter.com/MattBrownEP/status/1...8064164867

Look at the replies to the message. Looks like DavidSt is on Twitter!

(10-05-2020 12:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If I’m SUU I’m not going to the WAC alone. I’m not moving unless they have everything lined up to have a full FCS conference.

That sounds passable. I think you would have to have brain damage to leave Big Sky football to join just Dixie and Tarleton as a FCS Independent. Has to be a few other teams coming soon