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(08-21-2020 12:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:37 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Yep. There's no going back. I just wish some of the academic fluff in many institutions across this great nation would also make cuts. This is a topic for another board but universities have had no real incentive to run lean and teach courses that actually, you know, teach something tangible and useful. Many have become academician swamps of no return. Why no incentives? Students largely borrow the money to pay up.

Schools have those incentives. The consequences are just really, really long-term for schools that have billion dollar endowments or are state-sponsored.

Even state-sponsored schools like Chicago State & Wright State are in extreme danger of closing because of horrible decisions over the past 2 decades.

There's a reason that liberal arts schools like Illinois Wesleyan are dying, while engineering schools like Rose Hullman are thriving.

I have long felt that colleges should be the only lender to students and students could at the start to either repay as a traditional loan or a % of their income for some number of years. You would see the crap courses disappear quickly. End of Women's Studies, African American Studies, etc. Not saying no liberal arts but rather strong core that leads to value. About half my BBA in Accounting was not business. I took Physics, Inorganic and Organic Chem, Calculus, Boolean Algebra, English, American Literature, History, Psychology, Abnormal Psychology, etc.

(08-21-2020 01:17 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:37 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Yep. There's no going back. I just wish some of the academic fluff in many institutions across this great nation would also make cuts. This is a topic for another board but universities have had no real incentive to run lean and teach courses that actually, you know, teach something tangible and useful. Many have become academician swamps of no return. Why no incentives? Students largely borrow the money to pay up.

Schools have those incentives. The consequences are just really, really long-term for schools that have billion dollar endowments or are state-sponsored.

Even state-sponsored schools like Chicago State & Wright State are in extreme danger of closing because of horrible decisions over the past 2 decades.

There's a reason that liberal arts schools like Illinois Wesleyan are dying, while engineering schools like Rose Hullman are thriving.

I have long felt that colleges should be the only lender to students and students could at the start to either repay as a traditional loan or a % of their income for some number of years. You would see the crap courses disappear quickly. End of Women's Studies, African American Studies, etc. Not saying no liberal arts but rather strong core that leads to value. About half my BBA in Accounting was not business. I took Physics, Inorganic and Organic Chem, Calculus, Boolean Algebra, English, American Literature, History, Psychology, Abnormal Psychology, etc.

Welcome to the wonderful state racket meant to prop up bleeding departments with enrollment from colleges and departments that actually have students. My institution has more faculty in English than Civil Engineering, and Civil Engineering nearly quintuples the enrollment of English.

I've been saying for years that we should centralize all "electives" such as the composition series, a few social electives and a few humanities at the state level and teach them virtually, that way tuition can be used to uplift programs and offices that actually matter to students. Either that or there should be geographical partnerships that allow schools to share the burden of less useful courses in order to utilize their ever dwindling budgets on programs that matter to their specific students (which may be different depending on the University).

Truthfully, I think if you went to Congress today and said "Let's stop making students profit centers and loan them the money with no interest and an income-based repayment cycle as long as they attend a public University" there isn't a single person who could come up with a coherent argument against it. The population who believes that it shouldn't be free are still getting their way, and the angered masses who aren't able to pay down their principal on baseline payment plans because of exorbitant loan fees lose that whole argument. The government is supporting futures while not giving anything away and not crippling an individual's ability to save...tell me that's not a good plan.

(08-21-2020 12:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:37 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Yep. There's no going back. I just wish some of the academic fluff in many institutions across this great nation would also make cuts. This is a topic for another board but universities have had no real incentive to run lean and teach courses that actually, you know, teach something tangible and useful. Many have become academician swamps of no return. Why no incentives? Students largely borrow the money to pay up.

Schools have those incentives. The consequences are just really, really long-term for schools that have billion dollar endowments or are state-sponsored.

Even state-sponsored schools like Chicago State & Wright State are in extreme danger of closing because of horrible decisions over the past 2 decades.

There's a reason that liberal arts schools like Illinois Wesleyan are dying, while engineering schools like Rose Hullman are thriving.

I'm trying to imagine a world where every college grad is an illiterate engineer.

(08-21-2020 02:25 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:37 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Yep. There's no going back. I just wish some of the academic fluff in many institutions across this great nation would also make cuts. This is a topic for another board but universities have had no real incentive to run lean and teach courses that actually, you know, teach something tangible and useful. Many have become academician swamps of no return. Why no incentives? Students largely borrow the money to pay up.

Schools have those incentives. The consequences are just really, really long-term for schools that have billion dollar endowments or are state-sponsored.

Even state-sponsored schools like Chicago State & Wright State are in extreme danger of closing because of horrible decisions over the past 2 decades.

There's a reason that liberal arts schools like Illinois Wesleyan are dying, while engineering schools like Rose Hullman are thriving.

I'm trying to imagine a world where every college grad is an illiterate engineer.

We would have far fewer problems because logic and reason would rule as opposed to emotion and idealism.

(08-21-2020 02:33 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 02:25 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:37 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Yep. There's no going back. I just wish some of the academic fluff in many institutions across this great nation would also make cuts. This is a topic for another board but universities have had no real incentive to run lean and teach courses that actually, you know, teach something tangible and useful. Many have become academician swamps of no return. Why no incentives? Students largely borrow the money to pay up.

Schools have those incentives. The consequences are just really, really long-term for schools that have billion dollar endowments or are state-sponsored.

Even state-sponsored schools like Chicago State & Wright State are in extreme danger of closing because of horrible decisions over the past 2 decades.

There's a reason that liberal arts schools like Illinois Wesleyan are dying, while engineering schools like Rose Hullman are thriving.

I'm trying to imagine a world where every college grad is an illiterate engineer.

We would have far fewer problems because logic and reason would rule as opposed to emotion and idealism.

We wouldn't have fewer problems, just different ones. Consider, for example, the situation in Hong Kong. Why, you might wonder, are its citizens risking their freedom and their lives to protest? Is it because they disagree with the logic and reason of Xi Jinping? He's not only General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party, he's also an engineer. Logic and reason, it turns out, are in the eye of the beholder.

As always, logos, pathos, and ethos. It takes all three.

Hmm...do engineering students even study symbolic logic, or is that considered one of the liberal arts?

Comparing engineering to the Chinese Communist Regime...can this season PLEASE start soon

(08-21-2020 02:25 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:37 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Yep. There's no going back. I just wish some of the academic fluff in many institutions across this great nation would also make cuts. This is a topic for another board but universities have had no real incentive to run lean and teach courses that actually, you know, teach something tangible and useful. Many have become academician swamps of no return. Why no incentives? Students largely borrow the money to pay up.

Schools have those incentives. The consequences are just really, really long-term for schools that have billion dollar endowments or are state-sponsored.

Even state-sponsored schools like Chicago State & Wright State are in extreme danger of closing because of horrible decisions over the past 2 decades.

There's a reason that liberal arts schools like Illinois Wesleyan are dying, while engineering schools like Rose Hullman are thriving.

I'm trying to imagine a world where every college grad is an illiterate engineer.

It was close to true at most companies for which I was CFO.

https://www.startribune.com/iowa-cuts-fo...%20season.

Iowa cuts 4 sports. Now down to 20.

In a letter released Friday, Iowa officials said the postponement of this fall’s football season will slash revenue by $100 million. They project an athletic budget deficit of $60 million to $75 million this year. The four sports that were cut will disband at the end of the 2020-21 season.

(08-21-2020 04:24 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 02:33 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 02:25 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:37 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Yep. There's no going back. I just wish some of the academic fluff in many institutions across this great nation would also make cuts. This is a topic for another board but universities have had no real incentive to run lean and teach courses that actually, you know, teach something tangible and useful. Many have become academician swamps of no return. Why no incentives? Students largely borrow the money to pay up.

Schools have those incentives. The consequences are just really, really long-term for schools that have billion dollar endowments or are state-sponsored.

Even state-sponsored schools like Chicago State & Wright State are in extreme danger of closing because of horrible decisions over the past 2 decades.

There's a reason that liberal arts schools like Illinois Wesleyan are dying, while engineering schools like Rose Hullman are thriving.

I'm trying to imagine a world where every college grad is an illiterate engineer.

We would have far fewer problems because logic and reason would rule as opposed to emotion and idealism.

We wouldn't have fewer problems, just different ones. Consider, for example, the situation in Hong Kong. Why, you might wonder, are its citizens risking their freedom and their lives to protest? Is it because they disagree with the logic and reason of Xi Jinping? He's not only General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party, he's also an engineer. Logic and reason, it turns out, are in the eye of the beholder.

As always, logos, pathos, and ethos. It takes all three.

Hmm...do engineering students even study symbolic logic, or is that considered one of the liberal arts?

Really? Your argument is "Xi Jinping is an engineer," so therefore "engineers don't know everything"?

If you think anyone in liberal arts at a government school is learning Ethos, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

(08-24-2020 07:17 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 04:24 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 02:33 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 02:25 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Schools have those incentives. The consequences are just really, really long-term for schools that have billion dollar endowments or are state-sponsored.

Even state-sponsored schools like Chicago State & Wright State are in extreme danger of closing because of horrible decisions over the past 2 decades.

There's a reason that liberal arts schools like Illinois Wesleyan are dying, while engineering schools like Rose Hullman are thriving.

I'm trying to imagine a world where every college grad is an illiterate engineer.

We would have far fewer problems because logic and reason would rule as opposed to emotion and idealism.

We wouldn't have fewer problems, just different ones. Consider, for example, the situation in Hong Kong. Why, you might wonder, are its citizens risking their freedom and their lives to protest? Is it because they disagree with the logic and reason of Xi Jinping? He's not only General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party, he's also an engineer. Logic and reason, it turns out, are in the eye of the beholder.

As always, logos, pathos, and ethos. It takes all three.

Hmm...do engineering students even study symbolic logic, or is that considered one of the liberal arts?

Really? Your argument is "Xi Jinping is an engineer," so therefore "engineers don't know everything"?

If you think anyone in liberal arts at a government school is learning Ethos, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

No, my point, as clearly stated, was that logic and reason are in the eye of the beholder. Just because an engineer's decisions may be based on his or her framework of logic and reason (though that's extremely doubtful) doesn't mean that they'll be palatable to each of the rest of us. That's why I mentioned Xi Jinping. He may love his decisions and believe that they're grounded in logic and reason, but the folks in Hong Kong apparently aren't so pleased with them.

Just think of all the crappy products that have been designed by engineers using their unique grasp, in your opinion, of logic and reason. Oftentimes, engineers are tasked by bean counters to produce incremental savings by shaving a few pennies or dollars off the cost of each part in a complex assembly. Given economies of scale, those little savings can add up. But the result is usually a cheaper (as in less durable) though not necessarily less expensive consumer product. Have you ever noticed how the engineers who designed pre-LED iterations of Chevys, Cadillac Escalades, and GM trucks were unable to produce a vehicle with two operable running lights or headlights? Were the engineers who designed the wiring harnesses at fault, or the ones who designed the switches or light bulbs? I don't know, but that particular defect endured through years of production. I guess the engineers who design Toyotas use a different kind of logic and reason.

(08-24-2020 09:35 AM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-24-2020 07:17 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 04:24 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 02:33 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 02:25 PM)colohank Wrote:  I'm trying to imagine a world where every college grad is an illiterate engineer.

We would have far fewer problems because logic and reason would rule as opposed to emotion and idealism.

We wouldn't have fewer problems, just different ones. Consider, for example, the situation in Hong Kong. Why, you might wonder, are its citizens risking their freedom and their lives to protest? Is it because they disagree with the logic and reason of Xi Jinping? He's not only General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party, he's also an engineer. Logic and reason, it turns out, are in the eye of the beholder.

As always, logos, pathos, and ethos. It takes all three.

Hmm...do engineering students even study symbolic logic, or is that considered one of the liberal arts?

Really? Your argument is "Xi Jinping is an engineer," so therefore "engineers don't know everything"?

If you think anyone in liberal arts at a government school is learning Ethos, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

No, my point, as clearly stated, was that logic and reason are in the eye of the beholder. Just because an engineer's decisions may be based on his or her framework of logic and reason (though that's extremely doubtful) doesn't mean that they'll be palatable to each of the rest of us. That's why I mentioned Xi Jinping. He may love his decisions and believe that they're grounded in logic and reason, but the folks in Hong Kong apparently aren't so pleased with them.

Just think of all the crappy products that have been designed by engineers using their unique grasp, in your opinion, of logic and reason. Oftentimes, engineers are tasked by bean counters to produce incremental savings by shaving a few pennies or dollars off the cost of each part in a complex assembly. Given economies of scale, those little savings can add up. But the result is usually a cheaper (as in less durable) though not necessarily less expensive consumer product. Have you ever noticed how the engineers who designed pre-LED iterations of Chevys, Cadillac Escalades, and GM trucks were unable to produce a vehicle with two operable running lights or headlights? Were the engineers who designed the wiring harnesses at fault, or the ones who designed the switches or light bulbs? I don't know, but that particular defect endured through years of production. I guess the engineers who design Toyotas use a different kind of logic and reason.

I was under the impression the people of Hong Kong were upset with an oppressive and authoritarian government encroaching upon their personal liberties. Apparently, it is just the excessive amounts of logic and reason coming from Xi Jinping.

(08-24-2020 09:35 AM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-24-2020 07:17 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 04:24 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 02:33 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 02:25 PM)colohank Wrote:  I'm trying to imagine a world where every college grad is an illiterate engineer.

We would have far fewer problems because logic and reason would rule as opposed to emotion and idealism.

We wouldn't have fewer problems, just different ones. Consider, for example, the situation in Hong Kong. Why, you might wonder, are its citizens risking their freedom and their lives to protest? Is it because they disagree with the logic and reason of Xi Jinping? He's not only General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party, he's also an engineer. Logic and reason, it turns out, are in the eye of the beholder.

As always, logos, pathos, and ethos. It takes all three.

Hmm...do engineering students even study symbolic logic, or is that considered one of the liberal arts?

Really? Your argument is "Xi Jinping is an engineer," so therefore "engineers don't know everything"?

If you think anyone in liberal arts at a government school is learning Ethos, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

No, my point, as clearly stated, was that logic and reason are in the eye of the beholder. Just because an engineer's decisions may be based on his or her framework of logic and reason (though that's extremely doubtful) doesn't mean that they'll be palatable to each of the rest of us. That's why I mentioned Xi Jinping. He may love his decisions and believe that they're grounded in logic and reason, but the folks in Hong Kong apparently aren't so pleased with them.

Just think of all the crappy products that have been designed by engineers using their unique grasp, in your opinion, of logic and reason. Oftentimes, engineers are tasked by bean counters to produce incremental savings by shaving a few pennies or dollars off the cost of each part in a complex assembly. Given economies of scale, those little savings can add up. But the result is usually a cheaper (as in less durable) though not necessarily less expensive consumer product. Have you ever noticed how the engineers who designed pre-LED iterations of Chevys, Cadillac Escalades, and GM trucks were unable to produce a vehicle with two operable running lights or headlights? Were the engineers who designed the wiring harnesses at fault, or the ones who designed the switches or light bulbs? I don't know, but that particular defect endured through years of production. I guess the engineers who design Toyotas use a different kind of logic and reason.

No...logic and reason are objective disciplines. PRIDE is in the eye of the beholder.

What you are seeing in Hong Kong is a rejection of Communism and an embrace of Democracy. Central control crushes economies because it disobeys the free market, thus reducing the variety of goods and services.

(08-24-2020 09:55 AM)converrl Wrote:  

(08-24-2020 09:35 AM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-24-2020 07:17 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 04:24 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 02:33 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  We would have far fewer problems because logic and reason would rule as opposed to emotion and idealism.

We wouldn't have fewer problems, just different ones. Consider, for example, the situation in Hong Kong. Why, you might wonder, are its citizens risking their freedom and their lives to protest? Is it because they disagree with the logic and reason of Xi Jinping? He's not only General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party, he's also an engineer. Logic and reason, it turns out, are in the eye of the beholder.

As always, logos, pathos, and ethos. It takes all three.

Hmm...do engineering students even study symbolic logic, or is that considered one of the liberal arts?

Really? Your argument is "Xi Jinping is an engineer," so therefore "engineers don't know everything"?

If you think anyone in liberal arts at a government school is learning Ethos, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

No, my point, as clearly stated, was that logic and reason are in the eye of the beholder. Just because an engineer's decisions may be based on his or her framework of logic and reason (though that's extremely doubtful) doesn't mean that they'll be palatable to each of the rest of us. That's why I mentioned Xi Jinping. He may love his decisions and believe that they're grounded in logic and reason, but the folks in Hong Kong apparently aren't so pleased with them.

Just think of all the crappy products that have been designed by engineers using their unique grasp, in your opinion, of logic and reason. Oftentimes, engineers are tasked by bean counters to produce incremental savings by shaving a few pennies or dollars off the cost of each part in a complex assembly. Given economies of scale, those little savings can add up. But the result is usually a cheaper (as in less durable) though not necessarily less expensive consumer product. Have you ever noticed how the engineers who designed pre-LED iterations of Chevys, Cadillac Escalades, and GM trucks were unable to produce a vehicle with two operable running lights or headlights? Were the engineers who designed the wiring harnesses at fault, or the ones who designed the switches or light bulbs? I don't know, but that particular defect endured through years of production. I guess the engineers who design Toyotas use a different kind of logic and reason.

No...logic and reason are objective disciplines. PRIDE is in the eye of the beholder.

What you are seeing in Hong Kong is a rejection of Communism and an embrace of Democracy. Central control crushes economies because it disobeys the free market, thus reducing the variety of goods and services.

According to whom?

Kinda OT as far as UC and college sports, but one would think the NFL does some of the higher quality initial testing around yet:

Raises a lot of broader questions for society, but trying to keep this somewhat on topic, how does anyone operate and make good decisions with that kind of uncertainty whether we are talking NFL, colleges and college sports?

(08-21-2020 02:25 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:37 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Yep. There's no going back. I just wish some of the academic fluff in many institutions across this great nation would also make cuts. This is a topic for another board but universities have had no real incentive to run lean and teach courses that actually, you know, teach something tangible and useful. Many have become academician swamps of no return. Why no incentives? Students largely borrow the money to pay up.

Schools have those incentives. The consequences are just really, really long-term for schools that have billion dollar endowments or are state-sponsored.

Even state-sponsored schools like Chicago State & Wright State are in extreme danger of closing because of horrible decisions over the past 2 decades.

There's a reason that liberal arts schools like Illinois Wesleyan are dying, while engineering schools like Rose Hullman are thriving.

I'm trying to imagine a world where every college grad is an illiterate engineer.

Engineers by far are some of the most brilliant people in all fields. An average engineer would be top percentile in nearly every degree offering at a University, including English.

This UC engineer edited and published my own hobby magazine for ten years, edited a companies magazine for ten years. and has been a sportswriter for a local newspaper for 15 years.

I'd like to see an English major try to do some engineering jobs :)

(08-24-2020 11:43 AM)Helicopter Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 02:25 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:37 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Yep. There's no going back. I just wish some of the academic fluff in many institutions across this great nation would also make cuts. This is a topic for another board but universities have had no real incentive to run lean and teach courses that actually, you know, teach something tangible and useful. Many have become academician swamps of no return. Why no incentives? Students largely borrow the money to pay up.

Schools have those incentives. The consequences are just really, really long-term for schools that have billion dollar endowments or are state-sponsored.

Even state-sponsored schools like Chicago State & Wright State are in extreme danger of closing because of horrible decisions over the past 2 decades.

There's a reason that liberal arts schools like Illinois Wesleyan are dying, while engineering schools like Rose Hullman are thriving.

I'm trying to imagine a world where every college grad is an illiterate engineer.

Engineers by far are some of the most brilliant people in all fields. An average engineer would be top percentile in nearly every degree offering at a University, including English.

No doubt some, but far from all. Being brilliant in one field of endeavor doesn't qualify one for excellence in another. Passion or the lack thereof probably has something to do with it.

An average engineer? By definition, half of all engineers are below average. In other words, they aren't all brilliant, even as engineers.

(08-24-2020 01:05 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-24-2020 11:43 AM)Helicopter Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 02:25 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:53 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(08-21-2020 12:37 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Yep. There's no going back. I just wish some of the academic fluff in many institutions across this great nation would also make cuts. This is a topic for another board but universities have had no real incentive to run lean and teach courses that actually, you know, teach something tangible and useful. Many have become academician swamps of no return. Why no incentives? Students largely borrow the money to pay up.

Schools have those incentives. The consequences are just really, really long-term for schools that have billion dollar endowments or are state-sponsored.

Even state-sponsored schools like Chicago State & Wright State are in extreme danger of closing because of horrible decisions over the past 2 decades.

There's a reason that liberal arts schools like Illinois Wesleyan are dying, while engineering schools like Rose Hullman are thriving.

I'm trying to imagine a world where every college grad is an illiterate engineer.

Engineers by far are some of the most brilliant people in all fields. An average engineer would be top percentile in nearly every degree offering at a University, including English.

No doubt some, but far from all. Being brilliant in one field of endeavor doesn't qualify one for excellence in another. Passion or the lack thereof probably has something to do with it.

An average engineer? By definition, half of all engineers are below average. In other words, they aren't all brilliant, even as engineers.

I had a good engineer once ask me "How do we make a profit?"

I tried to answer in a simple manner: We get some foolish customer to pay us way more than the cost to build the crap you design!"

(08-24-2020 12:20 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  This UC engineer edited and published my own hobby magazine for ten years, edited a companies magazine for ten years. and has been a sportswriter for a local newspaper for 15 years.

I'd like to see an English major try to do some engineering jobs :)

There are highly capable people coming out of every major and in every profession. The same people writing code or developing electrical currents aren't writing Finnegan's Wake or Harry Potter (or your book of choice). The idea that because someone majored in engineering that they would be inherently suited towards governance is as ridiculous as thinking every political science major is. More to the point, every engineer I've ever met would literally **** their pants if you told them they had to give a speech to 30 people. Being able to work a room is a skillset just as much as any mathematical abilities. See Mike Bohn v. Cunningham for an example.

(08-24-2020 02:47 PM)skylinecat Wrote:  

(08-24-2020 12:20 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  This UC engineer edited and published my own hobby magazine for ten years, edited a companies magazine for ten years. and has been a sportswriter for a local newspaper for 15 years.

I'd like to see an English major try to do some engineering jobs :)

There are highly capable people coming out of every major and in every profession. The same people writing code or developing electrical currents aren't writing Finnegan's Wake or Harry Potter (or your book of choice). The idea that because someone majored in engineering that they would be inherently suited towards governance is as ridiculous as thinking every political science major is. More to the point, every engineer I've ever met would literally **** their pants if you told them they had to give a speech to 30 people. Being able to work a room is a skillset just as much as any mathematical abilities. See Mike Bohn v. Cunningham for an example.

I agree with that thesis...however, I think the one thing you might have to reconcile with is that GENERALLY engineers are far more intelligent on paper than any other industry outside of medicine, where it is nearly a dead heat. That's probably what those posters are saying, engineers likely have a far higher capacity for aptitude in different areas on the nature of their baseline intelligence being higher that most average individuals in other areas. With that being said, aptitude and application of that ability are two VERY different things, and in most social situations, engineers tend to fall behind.