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Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #321
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
Minnesota

Head coaches and the AD all agreed to a 10% pay cut, but it wasn't enough. The department will be in a $75 million hole, so the following programs are going away after the 2020-21 season:

Men's indoor track
Men's outdoor track
Men's gymnastics
Men's tennis
 
09-10-2020 04:56 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #322
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(09-09-2020 02:01 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 11:46 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 11:00 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 10:44 AM)Helicopter Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 10:17 PM)ZCat Wrote:  Eliminating 40 positions? Just generalizing here but:
Could it be that they had too many positions before?

In the private sector, companies generally run very lean. My hunch is in academia And athletic departments they don’t.

That's been my flavor between the private and public sectors. In academia they get a new requirement, e.g., expansion of Title IX. To handle this they just hire more people who can handle the requirements of Title IX. After all Federal Loans + dumb students + raised tuition = free money. In the private sector they get a new requirement, e.g., revision of TSCA . "Bob, in addition to your current duties you are our new TSCA expert." After all you can't pass the cost on to the consumer -- they will just buy elsewhere.

You've clearly never worked in higher ed. At the moment, I'm essentially pulling three separate full time positions (teaching 12 credit hours along with research as a junior faculty, advising roughly 400 students on all manner of academic affairs and co-op/professional processes, and managing all external engagement for the College where I'm employed). If you think Universities are adding jobs for the hell of it, you're clearly out of touch...and most of those added jobs are done so through grants and gifts, not operational funds, anyways.

Just to frame something in mind so you understand why tuition is ACTUALLY going up, play along with this. Adjusting for inflation, public institutions in Ohio are receiving roughly 27 cents on the dollar versus the state support they received in 1980. The only place to recoup that is from their "customers" (ie. the students)...as would be the case in any industry. This loss in state support is 100% tied to the consistent cuts of corporate taxes and general education funding cuts over the last 3 decades...and it isn't stopping any time soon, something that was clearly indicated by the Lt. Gov's suggestion of cutting 20% of the state share of instruction this year despite not being willing to pull from the rainy day fun DURING A PANDEMIC, which was luckily moved back to only a 5% cut.

I love what I do, and I'd never have it any other way...but all you desktop lackeys who sit around thinking higher education is a cakewalk don't actually understand anything about the landscape, and it's hilarious to hear you try to self-rationalize an idea that makes no sense in reality. The primary source of bloat at Universities is in their athletics departments, and this is coming from a former College athlete who had his team disbanded this summer. My current institution runs a $322M Budget on the Academic arm of the nearly 20,000 student institution (we also have a hospital that doubles that number). At the moment, nearly 11% of that budget goes to an athletic department with nearly 120 staff members that only makes $7M/year in operating revenue without the support of student fees, that's in comparison to my own College which sees only 14% of that budget will making money to the tune of nearly $5M/year BACK to the University with only 103 employees (faculty and staff included) after that roughly $40M operating budget is covered through tuition credits, research expenditures, and developed gifts/corporate sponsorships. If you want a place to cut the cost of education, athletics is where it's at, and that pains me to say it as a huge college sports fan...but some schools just shouldn't be doing what they're doing.

If we're using the Private industry model as you state, wouldn't you expect a company to reallocate resources away from a division that is losing nearly 10% of the company's revenue every year? You and I both know the answer there.

I am a professor.

About 1/3 of professors in my discipline have worked outside of academia, including myself. Until 2020, every single professor I've ever heard complain about the workload has come from the other 2/3.

2020 is special because for most of us, it's the first time there's ever been substantial changes in the expectations placed upon us.

Yep...same here, worked for a structural engineering firm for 5 years before moving into higher education. I have no issue with the work I've got on me, I love being busy...but there's a whole hell of a lot of people who make statements about us collecting checks and not doing a damn thing who stare at their computers all day on spreadsheets acting like they're busy 03-lmfao.

Hah.

One correction to your data though:

Yes, it's true that corporate tax rates have been reduced since 1980. And overall state tax revenues are up big time. In 1980, Ohio's total revenue was 4.3% of GDP. In 2020, it's 5.4%

Much of this is because federal grants went from 0.6% to 1.6% of GDP over that time.

But it's also because total tax revenue went up from 3.3% of GDP in 1980 to 3.6% in 2020. Corporate taxes were never a large part of the budget - they were only 10% of state revenues in 1980.

Since 1980, Sales tax is up 18% as a % of GDP and personal income tax is up 30%. Minor taxes (primarily alcohol, cigarette, and insurance industry taxes) are down 16% as a % of GDP.
 
09-10-2020 05:28 PM
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skylinecat Offline
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Post: #323
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(09-10-2020 04:56 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Minnesota

Head coaches and the AD all agreed to a 10% pay cut, but it wasn't enough. The department will be in a $75 million hole, so the following programs are going away after the 2020-21 season:

Men's indoor track
Men's outdoor track
Men's gymnastics
Men's tennis

Feels like shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic. I guess I just really don't understand the finances of some of these schools that I otherwise thought had essentially unlimited budgets. Their mens gymnastic roster had 19 players, some of which I'm assuming are walk-ons. I'd imagine they use the basketball stadium for events. How much does cutting that team really save them? Are there no loans available to a school that next season is going to bring in 25 million in football?
 
09-10-2020 06:22 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
The hits just keep on comin'...



 
09-10-2020 10:06 PM
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BearcatMan Online
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(09-10-2020 05:28 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 02:01 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 11:46 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 11:00 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 10:44 AM)Helicopter Wrote:  That's been my flavor between the private and public sectors. In academia they get a new requirement, e.g., expansion of Title IX. To handle this they just hire more people who can handle the requirements of Title IX. After all Federal Loans + dumb students + raised tuition = free money. In the private sector they get a new requirement, e.g., revision of TSCA . "Bob, in addition to your current duties you are our new TSCA expert." After all you can't pass the cost on to the consumer -- they will just buy elsewhere.

You've clearly never worked in higher ed. At the moment, I'm essentially pulling three separate full time positions (teaching 12 credit hours along with research as a junior faculty, advising roughly 400 students on all manner of academic affairs and co-op/professional processes, and managing all external engagement for the College where I'm employed). If you think Universities are adding jobs for the hell of it, you're clearly out of touch...and most of those added jobs are done so through grants and gifts, not operational funds, anyways.

Just to frame something in mind so you understand why tuition is ACTUALLY going up, play along with this. Adjusting for inflation, public institutions in Ohio are receiving roughly 27 cents on the dollar versus the state support they received in 1980. The only place to recoup that is from their "customers" (ie. the students)...as would be the case in any industry. This loss in state support is 100% tied to the consistent cuts of corporate taxes and general education funding cuts over the last 3 decades...and it isn't stopping any time soon, something that was clearly indicated by the Lt. Gov's suggestion of cutting 20% of the state share of instruction this year despite not being willing to pull from the rainy day fun DURING A PANDEMIC, which was luckily moved back to only a 5% cut.

I love what I do, and I'd never have it any other way...but all you desktop lackeys who sit around thinking higher education is a cakewalk don't actually understand anything about the landscape, and it's hilarious to hear you try to self-rationalize an idea that makes no sense in reality. The primary source of bloat at Universities is in their athletics departments, and this is coming from a former College athlete who had his team disbanded this summer. My current institution runs a $322M Budget on the Academic arm of the nearly 20,000 student institution (we also have a hospital that doubles that number). At the moment, nearly 11% of that budget goes to an athletic department with nearly 120 staff members that only makes $7M/year in operating revenue without the support of student fees, that's in comparison to my own College which sees only 14% of that budget will making money to the tune of nearly $5M/year BACK to the University with only 103 employees (faculty and staff included) after that roughly $40M operating budget is covered through tuition credits, research expenditures, and developed gifts/corporate sponsorships. If you want a place to cut the cost of education, athletics is where it's at, and that pains me to say it as a huge college sports fan...but some schools just shouldn't be doing what they're doing.

If we're using the Private industry model as you state, wouldn't you expect a company to reallocate resources away from a division that is losing nearly 10% of the company's revenue every year? You and I both know the answer there.

I am a professor.

About 1/3 of professors in my discipline have worked outside of academia, including myself. Until 2020, every single professor I've ever heard complain about the workload has come from the other 2/3.

2020 is special because for most of us, it's the first time there's ever been substantial changes in the expectations placed upon us.

Yep...same here, worked for a structural engineering firm for 5 years before moving into higher education. I have no issue with the work I've got on me, I love being busy...but there's a whole hell of a lot of people who make statements about us collecting checks and not doing a damn thing who stare at their computers all day on spreadsheets acting like they're busy 03-lmfao.

Hah.

One correction to your data though:

Yes, it's true that corporate tax rates have been reduced since 1980. And overall state tax revenues are up big time. In 1980, Ohio's total revenue was 4.3% of GDP. In 2020, it's 5.4%

Much of this is because federal grants went from 0.6% to 1.6% of GDP over that time.

But it's also because total tax revenue went up from 3.3% of GDP in 1980 to 3.6% in 2020. Corporate taxes were never a large part of the budget - they were only 10% of state revenues in 1980.

Since 1980, Sales tax is up 18% as a % of GDP and personal income tax is up 30%. Minor taxes (primarily alcohol, cigarette, and insurance industry taxes) are down 16% as a % of GDP.

While you're completely correct that they were never a strong part of the overall revenue...they were specifically tied to educational distributions. In the 80's, Ohio said the lottery was a better way to fund education and dropped the corporate tax rate tied to "the promotion of an educated workforce" and moved that percentage of funding to lottery revenues, which were considerably lower. They knew what they were doing 03-lmfao
 
09-11-2020 09:11 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #326
RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(09-11-2020 09:11 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(09-10-2020 05:28 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 02:01 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 11:46 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(09-09-2020 11:00 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  You've clearly never worked in higher ed. At the moment, I'm essentially pulling three separate full time positions (teaching 12 credit hours along with research as a junior faculty, advising roughly 400 students on all manner of academic affairs and co-op/professional processes, and managing all external engagement for the College where I'm employed). If you think Universities are adding jobs for the hell of it, you're clearly out of touch...and most of those added jobs are done so through grants and gifts, not operational funds, anyways.

Just to frame something in mind so you understand why tuition is ACTUALLY going up, play along with this. Adjusting for inflation, public institutions in Ohio are receiving roughly 27 cents on the dollar versus the state support they received in 1980. The only place to recoup that is from their "customers" (ie. the students)...as would be the case in any industry. This loss in state support is 100% tied to the consistent cuts of corporate taxes and general education funding cuts over the last 3 decades...and it isn't stopping any time soon, something that was clearly indicated by the Lt. Gov's suggestion of cutting 20% of the state share of instruction this year despite not being willing to pull from the rainy day fun DURING A PANDEMIC, which was luckily moved back to only a 5% cut.

I love what I do, and I'd never have it any other way...but all you desktop lackeys who sit around thinking higher education is a cakewalk don't actually understand anything about the landscape, and it's hilarious to hear you try to self-rationalize an idea that makes no sense in reality. The primary source of bloat at Universities is in their athletics departments, and this is coming from a former College athlete who had his team disbanded this summer. My current institution runs a $322M Budget on the Academic arm of the nearly 20,000 student institution (we also have a hospital that doubles that number). At the moment, nearly 11% of that budget goes to an athletic department with nearly 120 staff members that only makes $7M/year in operating revenue without the support of student fees, that's in comparison to my own College which sees only 14% of that budget will making money to the tune of nearly $5M/year BACK to the University with only 103 employees (faculty and staff included) after that roughly $40M operating budget is covered through tuition credits, research expenditures, and developed gifts/corporate sponsorships. If you want a place to cut the cost of education, athletics is where it's at, and that pains me to say it as a huge college sports fan...but some schools just shouldn't be doing what they're doing.

If we're using the Private industry model as you state, wouldn't you expect a company to reallocate resources away from a division that is losing nearly 10% of the company's revenue every year? You and I both know the answer there.

I am a professor.

About 1/3 of professors in my discipline have worked outside of academia, including myself. Until 2020, every single professor I've ever heard complain about the workload has come from the other 2/3.

2020 is special because for most of us, it's the first time there's ever been substantial changes in the expectations placed upon us.

Yep...same here, worked for a structural engineering firm for 5 years before moving into higher education. I have no issue with the work I've got on me, I love being busy...but there's a whole hell of a lot of people who make statements about us collecting checks and not doing a damn thing who stare at their computers all day on spreadsheets acting like they're busy 03-lmfao.

Hah.

One correction to your data though:

Yes, it's true that corporate tax rates have been reduced since 1980. And overall state tax revenues are up big time. In 1980, Ohio's total revenue was 4.3% of GDP. In 2020, it's 5.4%

Much of this is because federal grants went from 0.6% to 1.6% of GDP over that time.

But it's also because total tax revenue went up from 3.3% of GDP in 1980 to 3.6% in 2020. Corporate taxes were never a large part of the budget - they were only 10% of state revenues in 1980.

Since 1980, Sales tax is up 18% as a % of GDP and personal income tax is up 30%. Minor taxes (primarily alcohol, cigarette, and insurance industry taxes) are down 16% as a % of GDP.

While you're completely correct that they were never a strong part of the overall revenue...they were specifically tied to educational distributions. In the 80's, Ohio said the lottery was a better way to fund education and dropped the corporate tax rate tied to "the promotion of an educated workforce" and moved that percentage of funding to lottery revenues, which were considerably lower. They knew what they were doing 03-lmfao

Interesting.

But Ohio isn't the only state that's had reduced higher ed funding. Of the 29 largest states, only 5 did not have drops in education funding as a % of GDP from 1980 to 2020 (GA, FL, NC, TN, MD. I didn't check the small states, or Missouri which for some reason I couldn't find their 1980 GDP).

The average large/midsized state went from 0.59% of GDP to higher ed in 1980 to to 0.44% in 2020. Ohio went from 0.57% to 0.34%.

The 41% drop is large. But Ohio's drop of 0.23% of GDP is only the 11th largest drop out of the 29 largest states. Midwestern states in particular had large reductions: Michigan (0.53% of GDP), Iowa (0.45%) Wisconsin (0.34%), Pennsylvania (0.32%), and Kentucky (0.29%) were the worst 5.
 
09-11-2020 11:05 AM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
In case anyone was wondering just how much of a drag on finances the women's and non-revenue sports were...UC reported a $7.7M surplus in their athletics department this past year, with significant impacts being reduced travel expenses and cancelation of operating expenses for the spring and fall women's sports. Football, along with general development, made back over 40% of their expenses this year when they couldn't even have fans in the stands.
 
01-26-2021 08:21 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(01-26-2021 08:21 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  In case anyone was wondering just how much of a drag on finances the women's and non-revenue sports were...UC reported a $7.7M surplus in their athletics department this past year, with significant impacts being reduced travel expenses and cancelation of operating expenses for the spring and fall women's sports. Football, along with general development, made back over 40% of their expenses this year when they couldn't even have fans in the stands.

If I am not mistake that report ended June 2020, so fall sports of 2020 are not counted in. As you indicate there was considerable savings in the spring.
 
01-26-2021 08:41 AM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
I'm not convinced this surplus is particularly meaningful once the reports ending June 2021 and even June 2022 are completed. Athletics was sitting on cash in June 2020 for football season tickets for a season of mostly fan-less games. Roll those anticipated annual ticket revenues forward into 2021 football and it seems certain a hole in the doughnut is going to become evident in a future cycle.
 
01-26-2021 11:26 AM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(01-26-2021 11:26 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  I'm not convinced this surplus is particularly meaningful once the reports ending June 2021 and even June 2022 are completed. Athletics was sitting on cash in June 2020 for football season tickets for a season of mostly fan-less games. Roll those anticipated annual ticket revenues forward into 2021 football and it seems certain a hole in the doughnut is going to become evident in a future cycle.

Either way, though...for a department that normally runs a deficit in the $1.5-$2.2M range, it is a sign that the non-revenue sports really are dragging the department down. Football Season tickets don't account for $10M of the Athletic Department's budget every year I would assume.
 
01-26-2021 11:29 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(01-26-2021 11:26 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  I'm not convinced this surplus is particularly meaningful once the reports ending June 2021 and even June 2022 are completed. Athletics was sitting on cash in June 2020 for football season tickets for a season of mostly fan-less games. Roll those anticipated annual ticket revenues forward into 2021 football and it seems certain a hole in the doughnut is going to become evident in a future cycle.

True, although it will look a little different because the 20-21 numbers will include more revenue from the new media deal and from the Peach Bowl (it gets shared by the conference but as I recall we get to keep a tiny bit extra for ourselves).
 
01-26-2021 12:10 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
Another source for the athletic department surplus for fiscal year 6/19-6/20. $81M in revenue. That’s damn impressive. Granted $30M of that came from the university but with a more lucrative media deal UC could replace that stream with the better payouts from the conference.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/n...ssion=true
 
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2021 03:08 PM by CliftonAve.)
01-26-2021 03:07 PM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
I am in favor of women's and men's sports being treated alike. By that I mean each should get they same supplement from the university. So imagine:

Budgeted Men's Sports Revenue less costs = Men's Supplement

Budgeted Women's Sports Revenue less costs = Women's Supplement

Each supplement to be EQUAL by adjusting costs.

Fair treatment.
 
01-26-2021 03:24 PM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(01-26-2021 03:07 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Another source for the athletic department surplus for fiscal year 6/19-6/20. $81M in revenue. That’s damn impressive. Granted $30M of that came from the university but with a more lucrative media deal UC could replace that stream with the better payouts from the conference.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/n...ssion=true

$81M would put us top of the class for non-A5 colleges and within striking distance of teams receiving $25M-$30M more per year from TV deals.
 
01-26-2021 03:36 PM
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
Meanwhile, the rich get richer.....even during a pandemic:

The Ohio State University Department of Athletics increased revenue by 11% last fiscal year and spent less even as it and the university began fighting the major impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic. The department brought in $233,871,740 in fiscal year 2020, which measures July 1, 2019, to June 30, 2020, up 11% from $210,548,239 in the previous year, according to an annual financial report filed each year with the NCAA.

It remains one of the largest athletic departments in the country and brought in more than it spent. The department spent $215,209,566, which is down 2.4% from $220,572,956, according to the annual report.


https://news.osu.edu/ohio-state-athletic...last-year/
 
02-04-2021 03:12 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(02-04-2021 03:12 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  Meanwhile, the rich get richer.....even during a pandemic:

The Ohio State University Department of Athletics increased revenue by 11% last fiscal year and spent less even as it and the university began fighting the major impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic. The department brought in $233,871,740 in fiscal year 2020, which measures July 1, 2019, to June 30, 2020, up 11% from $210,548,239 in the previous year, according to an annual financial report filed each year with the NCAA.

It remains one of the largest athletic departments in the country and brought in more than it spent. The department spent $215,209,566, which is down 2.4% from $220,572,956, according to the annual report.


https://news.osu.edu/ohio-state-athletic...last-year/

T-shirt fans everywhere be like “please take my money.”

TBH we should hope to be as lucky. We need more people giving
 
02-04-2021 06:40 PM
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Bearcat 1985 Offline
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RE: Athletic Department COVID-19 Hit List: Growing Longer
(02-04-2021 03:12 PM)Cat-Man Wrote:  Meanwhile, the rich get richer.....even during a pandemic:

The Ohio State University Department of Athletics increased revenue by 11% last fiscal year and spent less even as it and the university began fighting the major impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic. The department brought in $233,871,740 in fiscal year 2020, which measures July 1, 2019, to June 30, 2020, up 11% from $210,548,239 in the previous year, according to an annual financial report filed each year with the NCAA.

It remains one of the largest athletic departments in the country and brought in more than it spent. The department spent $215,209,566, which is down 2.4% from $220,572,956, according to the annual report.


https://news.osu.edu/ohio-state-athletic...last-year/

Fiscal year ended in July. The big hit will be next year's fiscal year when they lose their largest revenue stream (football tickets) entirely. I'm sure that they have enough rainy day funds to cover it for a year, but it still won't be pretty.
 
02-05-2021 02:22 PM
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