(06-02-2020 03:43 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:40 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 02:47 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 02:29 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 02:25 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  If the three of you think that is a viable solution, then you are naive or maybe you really think that is all it takes. It is much deeper than that. You may see it this way if you have blinders on or you choose not to see what the real issue is.

I have spent my entire life not getting arrested. I consider that the civic duty of every person.

You want my active approval and cooperation? Then have these protesters list as their number one action:

1. Obey the laws so you don't get arrested for a cause.

Other than numerous church organizations, I have never seen this.

It certainly is not front and center here.

Again, it is much deeper than that and you know it. But let's continue to cover our eyes and ears. You will stay in your safe place.

Ok, fine.

Then explain to us what these deeper issues are, how have they failed to be addressed, how can we improve on that, who's responsibility is that? Surely this has been done successfully elsewhere if it's all so apparent.

thx.

Crickets

And you will continue to get crickets. If you have to ask what is the solution then you have no way of ever comprehending a solution even it were given to you. It called being in denial. That maybe a safer place for y'all to be. Stay there. Things will evolve and your answer will be inevitable and answered in a way that you will understand.

(06-02-2020 03:51 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:43 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Crickets

And you will continue to get crickets. If you have to ask what is the solution then you have no way of ever comprehending a solution even it were given to you. It called being in denial. That maybe a safer place for y'all to be. Stay there. Things will evolve and your answer will be inevitable and answered in a way that you will understand.

Libtard double speech straight out of 1984. Orwell was better than Nostradamus.

They want the Orange Man to resign and to be replaced by a Democrat of their choice (and Biden is not their firs, second or third choice).

(06-02-2020 03:26 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:14 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 01:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 01:16 PM)maximus Wrote:  At a high level....truly loving one another and all sides reciprocating that love.

At a granular level, sitting down and having discussions on what the barriers are and what are reasonable and real solutions. Discuss up front what is absolutely off the table and work back from there. There are solutions, but they must be defined, measurable, agreed upon, and reevaluated on a regular basis.

And, it has to happen on the local level, one size will not fit all.



Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

With all due respect there Batman, the League of Shadows has already overrun Gotham Asylum and let the loons out and it is being repeated in blue cities everywhere. Honest discussion would be nice, but I have profound reservations about the "Honest" part, especially after the antics of the Deep State in the FBI, CIA, DOJ, and in the House Committees and among RINO's. Oh, and the "Love" never was.

The discussions are not just 2 sided. Bring in local conservatives, liberals, libertarians, denominations, non denomination, law enforcement, etc.. Define the problem, propose measurable solutions, start small, measure, reevaluate and adjust and expand based on whats working or not. Involve the citizens of the local community in the planning, execution, and evaluation. Live stream the discussions so everyone can see the dialogue or sometimes lack there of.

Key is to remove the off the wall asks and demands from the beginning, find middle ground....it is there, just damn hard to find.

Notice I didnt mention "politician" anywhere, they should not be included in the discussion. Those clowns are the main deterrent to finding middle ground.

After plans are made bring them in, and as one voice, you demand the proposed solutions. If they dont want to play nice... make sure everyone knows, scream it from the rooftops.

Im naturally a realist, do i think this would work everywhere? Well no, but there are communitues who long for togetherness and, well, community.



Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

I have no problem with the grass roots movements. Local folks tend to care about one another in spite of political differences.

My issue is with likelihood of success. Until you get corporate money out of elections even a well run grass roots effort has zero chance. They'll just make up lies about your candidate knowing by the time the courts could handle a liable or slander suit (where the judge is one on their payroll) it would be too late for the voters to reconsider.

You see, I too am a realist, and from close up experience.

I agree with your approach, but there are 3 things that have to change for it to work properly.
1. Eliminate outside money from State and Local elections.
2. Eliminate Corporate money everywhere.
3. Make it illegal for a corporate multi-national or conglomerate to own media outlets.

Do that and your grassroots candidates have a chance, a good one. Don't do it and you are pissing in the wind except for school board and city council if you are really small and bigger entities don't care about you. When candidates have to work for your financial support and your issues in order to get re-elected instead of know Joe Blow Corp fully funding their campaign through XYZ PAC and then outspending and attacking your candidate 24/7 until the game is over. Truth won't matter a bit. And for the record State Political Party X or Y are both owned lock stock and barrel by the Corporations interested in your state's natural resources, business access, and political support, usually at taxpayer expense but that would be a much longer tutorial as that varies by industry and is destructive to different aspects of the tax base.

I'm hip deep in that pocket....

having said that...gfl...

it's a stupid posit w/o an answer as education/wealth division/lobbyist/etc continue to 'pine with clout'...

(06-02-2020 10:49 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Kalamazoo MI mayor on TV now demanding change, history of systemic racism.

The problem with this is that they are just words. NOBODY, when asked can really articulate actual policy changes that would really address 'systemic' or structural racism. They instead mouth political platitudes. IOW, campaign speeches.

(06-02-2020 03:51 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:43 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:40 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 02:47 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 02:29 PM)Claw Wrote:  I have spent my entire life not getting arrested. I consider that the civic duty of every person.

You want my active approval and cooperation? Then have these protesters list as their number one action:

1. Obey the laws so you don't get arrested for a cause.

Other than numerous church organizations, I have never seen this.

It certainly is not front and center here.

Again, it is much deeper than that and you know it. But let's continue to cover our eyes and ears. You will stay in your safe place.

Ok, fine.

Then explain to us what these deeper issues are, how have they failed to be addressed, how can we improve on that, who's responsibility is that? Surely this has been done successfully elsewhere if it's all so apparent.

thx.

Crickets

And you will continue to get crickets. If you have to ask what is the solution then you have no way of ever comprehending a solution even it were given to you. It called being in denial. That maybe a safer place for y'all to be. Stay there. Things will evolve and your answer will be inevitable and answered in a way that you will understand.

That's a pretty pathetic response. Makes it look like you have absolutely nothing honest or substantive to offer.

(06-02-2020 04:01 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  They want the Orange Man to resign and to be replaced by a Democrat of their choice (and Biden is not their firs, second or third choice).

Correct. Because there is no quantifying the “problem” much less the solution. What are they protesting exactly? That a white cop killed a black man and has been arrested and charged with murder?

They’ll say, well it happens all the time! But the stats don’t bare that out. How many interactions do cops have with whites, blacks, Hispanics? How many of those involve a cop killing someone? Then how often were those killings justified?

The system is rigged they’ll say. We’re arresting more blacks. So what’s the reason for that? Systemic racism! Ok, how?

A friend of mine showed me an article that claimed more police officers have been killed by black men since 2015, than unarmed black men have been killed by police in that time frame. Not sure where it was from. Has anyone else seen that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought twice about posting this given what has gone on. I'm a terrible person and I'm probably going to go to the 'bad place' for this. But when I started reading this thread, this is what popped into my mind.

(06-02-2020 04:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:51 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:43 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:40 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 02:47 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  Again, it is much deeper than that and you know it. But let's continue to cover our eyes and ears. You will stay in your safe place.

Ok, fine.

Then explain to us what these deeper issues are, how have they failed to be addressed, how can we improve on that, who's responsibility is that? Surely this has been done successfully elsewhere if it's all so apparent.

thx.

Crickets

And you will continue to get crickets. If you have to ask what is the solution then you have no way of ever comprehending a solution even it were given to you. It called being in denial. That maybe a safer place for y'all to be. Stay there. Things will evolve and your answer will be inevitable and answered in a way that you will understand.

That's a pretty pathetic response. Makes it look like you have absolutely nothing honest or substantive to offer.

I wouldn't offer anything "substantive" to you or your ilk. Pathetic it may be to you and that is good to know. Keep covering your eyes. One day you will take away the blindfold and you won't like what you see.

(06-02-2020 03:51 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:43 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:40 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 02:47 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 02:29 PM)Claw Wrote:  I have spent my entire life not getting arrested. I consider that the civic duty of every person.

You want my active approval and cooperation? Then have these protesters list as their number one action:

1. Obey the laws so you don't get arrested for a cause.

Other than numerous church organizations, I have never seen this.

It certainly is not front and center here.

Again, it is much deeper than that and you know it. But let's continue to cover our eyes and ears. You will stay in your safe place.

Ok, fine.

Then explain to us what these deeper issues are, how have they failed to be addressed, how can we improve on that, who's responsibility is that? Surely this has been done successfully elsewhere if it's all so apparent.

thx.

Crickets

And you will continue to get crickets. If you have to ask what is the solution then you have no way of ever comprehending a solution even it were given to you. It called being in denial. That maybe a safer place for y'all to be. Stay there. Things will evolve and your answer will be inevitable and answered in a way that you will understand.

Uhhhh, that was a legit question. I've worked on "solution" design going back over 20yrs. Small business incubation, enterprise zones (now re-invented as "opportunity zones, Jack Kemp idea), small business development and worked at the SBDC here locally.

So, I've gotten my toes wet, no denial whatsoever, I've been there.

What's the solution? Don't give me some patronizing bullspit about "safe spaces", what's gonna evolve? What are these mysterious "answers"? Why haven't we implemented these answers yet, now going on somewhere between 140 or 50+ years depending on how you want to count (Black voting rights/ end of Jim Crow era).

Don't give us these platitudes about inevitability, what is it? Spill the beans. Thx.

(06-02-2020 04:03 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:26 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:14 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 01:38 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 01:16 PM)maximus Wrote:  At a high level....truly loving one another and all sides reciprocating that love.

At a granular level, sitting down and having discussions on what the barriers are and what are reasonable and real solutions. Discuss up front what is absolutely off the table and work back from there. There are solutions, but they must be defined, measurable, agreed upon, and reevaluated on a regular basis.

And, it has to happen on the local level, one size will not fit all.



Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

With all due respect there Batman, the League of Shadows has already overrun Gotham Asylum and let the loons out and it is being repeated in blue cities everywhere. Honest discussion would be nice, but I have profound reservations about the "Honest" part, especially after the antics of the Deep State in the FBI, CIA, DOJ, and in the House Committees and among RINO's. Oh, and the "Love" never was.

The discussions are not just 2 sided. Bring in local conservatives, liberals, libertarians, denominations, non denomination, law enforcement, etc.. Define the problem, propose measurable solutions, start small, measure, reevaluate and adjust and expand based on whats working or not. Involve the citizens of the local community in the planning, execution, and evaluation. Live stream the discussions so everyone can see the dialogue or sometimes lack there of.

Key is to remove the off the wall asks and demands from the beginning, find middle ground....it is there, just damn hard to find.

Notice I didnt mention "politician" anywhere, they should not be included in the discussion. Those clowns are the main deterrent to finding middle ground.

After plans are made bring them in, and as one voice, you demand the proposed solutions. If they dont want to play nice... make sure everyone knows, scream it from the rooftops.

Im naturally a realist, do i think this would work everywhere? Well no, but there are communitues who long for togetherness and, well, community.



Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

I have no problem with the grass roots movements. Local folks tend to care about one another in spite of political differences.

My issue is with likelihood of success. Until you get corporate money out of elections even a well run grass roots effort has zero chance. They'll just make up lies about your candidate knowing by the time the courts could handle a liable or slander suit (where the judge is one on their payroll) it would be too late for the voters to reconsider.

You see, I too am a realist, and from close up experience.

I agree with your approach, but there are 3 things that have to change for it to work properly.
1. Eliminate outside money from State and Local elections.
2. Eliminate Corporate money everywhere.
3. Make it illegal for a corporate multi-national or conglomerate to own media outlets.

Do that and your grassroots candidates have a chance, a good one. Don't do it and you are pissing in the wind except for school board and city council if you are really small and bigger entities don't care about you. When candidates have to work for your financial support and your issues in order to get re-elected instead of know Joe Blow Corp fully funding their campaign through XYZ PAC and then outspending and attacking your candidate 24/7 until the game is over. Truth won't matter a bit. And for the record State Political Party X or Y are both owned lock stock and barrel by the Corporations interested in your state's natural resources, business access, and political support, usually at taxpayer expense but that would be a much longer tutorial as that varies by industry and is destructive to different aspects of the tax base.

I'm hip deep in that pocket....

having said that...gfl...

it's a stupid posit w/o an answer as education/wealth division/lobbyist/etc continue to 'pine with clout'...

Never said it wasn't a tall order. It's where you start before you have a chance. Those are the objectives for restoring some power to the electorate. If you don't know where to start you can't attempt. If you do attempt you need hope. Without hope they win. Piss on surrender and hopelessness. Can't never did anything.

(06-02-2020 04:30 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 04:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:51 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:43 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:40 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Ok, fine.

Then explain to us what these deeper issues are, how have they failed to be addressed, how can we improve on that, who's responsibility is that? Surely this has been done successfully elsewhere if it's all so apparent.

thx.

Crickets

And you will continue to get crickets. If you have to ask what is the solution then you have no way of ever comprehending a solution even it were given to you. It called being in denial. That maybe a safer place for y'all to be. Stay there. Things will evolve and your answer will be inevitable and answered in a way that you will understand.

That's a pretty pathetic response. Makes it look like you have absolutely nothing honest or substantive to offer.

I wouldn't offer anything "substantive" to you or your ilk. Pathetic it may be to you and that is good to know. Keep covering your eyes. One day you will take away the blindfold and you won't like what you see.

Its not our fault you can't engage in a serious, meaningful discussion.

If you were able to articulate a thoughtful, valid point you already would have. You know you can't so you hide behind this foolishness and empty rhetoric.

Intelligent, well intentioned people can engage in dialogue with those whom they disagree. Weak minded people who can't articulate or defend their position run and hide behind cowardly excuses like yours.

(06-02-2020 04:36 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 04:30 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 04:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:51 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:43 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Crickets

And you will continue to get crickets. If you have to ask what is the solution then you have no way of ever comprehending a solution even it were given to you. It called being in denial. That maybe a safer place for y'all to be. Stay there. Things will evolve and your answer will be inevitable and answered in a way that you will understand.

That's a pretty pathetic response. Makes it look like you have absolutely nothing honest or substantive to offer.

I wouldn't offer anything "substantive" to you or your ilk. Pathetic it may be to you and that is good to know. Keep covering your eyes. One day you will take away the blindfold and you won't like what you see.

Its not our fault you can't engage in a serious, meaningful discussion.

If you were able to articulate a thoughtful, valid point you already would have. You know you can't so you hide behind this foolishness and empty rhetoric.

No, it's not my fault. I know where I am. This board doesn't offer anything that remotely addresses issues. This board is pretty much useless in the grand scheme of things. I'm smart enough to know that anything that goes against the grain on this board is not considered "meaningful discussion". You can take that empty condescending tone to another person that gives two shiats. Carry on.. I'm enjoying this.

(06-02-2020 04:43 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 04:36 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 04:30 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 04:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 03:51 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  And you will continue to get crickets. If you have to ask what is the solution then you have no way of ever comprehending a solution even it were given to you. It called being in denial. That maybe a safer place for y'all to be. Stay there. Things will evolve and your answer will be inevitable and answered in a way that you will understand.

That's a pretty pathetic response. Makes it look like you have absolutely nothing honest or substantive to offer.

I wouldn't offer anything "substantive" to you or your ilk. Pathetic it may be to you and that is good to know. Keep covering your eyes. One day you will take away the blindfold and you won't like what you see.

Its not our fault you can't engage in a serious, meaningful discussion.

If you were able to articulate a thoughtful, valid point you already would have. You know you can't so you hide behind this foolishness and empty rhetoric.

No, it's not my fault. I know where I am. This board doesn't offer anything that remotely addresses issues. This board is pretty much useless in the grand scheme of things. I'm smart enough to know that anything that goes against the grain on this board is not considered "meaningful discussion". You can take that empty condescending tone to another person that gives two shiats. Carry on.. I'm enjoying this.

So, the inevitable answer is I have no answers at all.

Got it. Sad.

(06-02-2020 04:46 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 04:43 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 04:36 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 04:30 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 04:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  That's a pretty pathetic response. Makes it look like you have absolutely nothing honest or substantive to offer.

I wouldn't offer anything "substantive" to you or your ilk. Pathetic it may be to you and that is good to know. Keep covering your eyes. One day you will take away the blindfold and you won't like what you see.

Its not our fault you can't engage in a serious, meaningful discussion.

If you were able to articulate a thoughtful, valid point you already would have. You know you can't so you hide behind this foolishness and empty rhetoric.

No, it's not my fault. I know where I am. This board doesn't offer anything that remotely addresses issues. This board is pretty much useless in the grand scheme of things. I'm smart enough to know that anything that goes against the grain on this board is not considered "meaningful discussion". You can take that empty condescending tone to another person that gives two shiats. Carry on.. I'm enjoying this.

So, the inevitable answer is I have no answers at all.

Got it. Sad.

I'd bet that you are hoping that is true.

(06-02-2020 04:54 PM)tigersroll Wrote:  

(06-02-2020 04:46 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  So, the inevitable answer is I have no answers at all.

Got it. Sad.

I'd bet that you are hoping that is true.

It IS true. You've said nothing of substance other than "nah nah nah nah boo boo, I know something you don't know".

So what is the point of coming on a board to complain about the board?

If you have something of substance, then add it.

(06-02-2020 05:01 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  So what is the point of coming on a board to complain about the board?

If you have something of substance, then add it.

He clearly has nothing and he knows it.