(09-11-2019 08:15 PM)tigernole79 Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 07:32 PM)Pastnerized Wrote:  Stammers has gone off the deep end.
He has drowned and recus was un successful.

However, if he can prove absolutely that had we had Ferguson for qb last year, that we would have only punted 12 times, I will certainly laud him as the greatest football mind ever.

I won't even bother with the other ridiculous conclusions he has drawn.

Just prove that one.

He has already claimed to prove everything else, why should that be any different?!

Sorry I got sucked into the clown show. I thought actual rational discussion was possible. He makes some of the cretins on this board appear to be intellectual giants.

Rational discussion?

Quote:Riley after his first game in his second season 9 wins - 5 losses.
Brady after his first game in his second season 9 wins - 6 losses. He played in an AAC Championship game, Riley didn't.

Brady played with two NFL RBs, Riley played with two NFL WRs.

Tell me a game that Brady alone lost. Whether it be through multiple fumbles or interceptions.

As for the other BS assessments of how limited this team will be with Brady... those just make me laugh.

Sure, a blanket statement about BS assessments and no mention of any of the points in the original post are a typical way to initiate rational discussion. Delusional as usual.

Pastnerized jumps in with an attempt at rational discussion also...

Quote:So says you by your interpretation of this tripe you posted.

So, bottom line, are you saying Brady White is the best we have or are you just going to be Stammers and ***** about something and offer no solution?

Should Norvell move Bryce Huff to QB because he can throw a ball 70yds. downfield??

What's your deal, man?

Two clowns that got exactly what they deserve, and neither of them, nor anyone else could refute anything I said in the original post. The only people who disagreed said that Dykes slowed down...THAT'S IT, one play the whole game disputed in the entire post.

I was civil with posters who were civil.

(09-11-2019 03:58 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 03:50 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Whatever.

This is turning into absolute nonsense.

And the bigger point is what is the end game in this bitchfest?

David Moore ain't walking through the door. Riley has exhausted his eligibility.

If we're saying let's bench the starting QB for the reigning, defending, undisputed American Western Champs and the 2018 AAC passing yards leader, then I guess let's go back to the "Adair" thread.

If not, this Brady vs. Riley is nothing more than mental masturbation.

Peace.

The end game is that he is an average quarterback that is holding us back and there is nothing we can do about it; especially continually blaming the offensive line, wide receivers and tight ends.

All of the other pieces seem to be in place to have a great season, instead of a good season.

Nah, the end game is that COACH Norvell has White as his starting QB. I'll stick with Norvell's choice.

(09-11-2019 03:14 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:44 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:10 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:05 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 01:52 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  So if 2018 Riley had been QB for the 2016 team, Memphis would have gone 4-8 or 5-7?

Interesting.

Good point. If White was the quarterback, we probably would have only had additional losses to Temple and Houston; so 6-7.

You realize the Temple game Riley was a non-factor?

Memphis scored on a pick 6 and also Pollard ran back a KO for a TD.
The other two scores were a fantastic handoff from Riley to Dorceus which allowed him to run 71 yards fora TD and Henderson had a 28 yard run.

You can come up with anecdotal examples where Ferguson didn't do this or that or benefitted from this or that, but we had a ton of drives where 80-90% of our yardage was on runs, with many of them being long runs.

In a game like that I would expect White to make half the throws that Ferguson did and to get sacked 8 times instead of 4 times. Ferguson played poorly in the first game in 2017 against UCF and the Ole Piss game in 2016. Other than that he played very well and won a lot of games for us.

Look at the Houston game. We win 52-31 so White must have had a great game, right?

21-33
209 yards
63.7%
6.3 yards per attempt
1 touchdown
2 interceptions

We scored 52 points and you can easily argue that White tried to singlehandedly lose the game for us. One pick 6 for 63 yards and another pick at Houston's 1 yard line. And that game and this season's Ole Piss game don't even count in all of the data I have put up because we actually won both games.

I can't think of any game that White won for us.

He also doesn't lose games for us (Ferguson had at least one game where interceptions cost us-- maybe against UCF?). I'm not a huge Brady White fan, but I'll admit that I don't worry about his decision-making abilities (Ferguson could be frustrating at times).

I think Adair should get more looks. But, he did throw a fair amount of interceptions based on reports from camp. Is the trade-off in the athleticism and play-making ability that he provides worth the real risk that his turnovers could cost us a game? Do we trade consistency for someone more dynamic? Can we strike a balance and bring Adair in on certain series to keep defenses honest?

I'm not a big proponent of playing not to lose. I believe that if you play with that mindset, you lose. You have to take some chances.

If White is the best man for the job, then play him. If there are better options with high risk high reward, I tend to lean that way though. I don't want us to play conservative/scared/park the bus (soccer term)/prevent....yadda yadda. It's not my cup of tea.

(09-11-2019 04:02 PM)WiseMan Wrote:  Stammers never stops once he posts an opinion and ANYONE disagrees with it.

Looking in a mirror?

(09-11-2019 08:00 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 04:02 PM)WiseMan Wrote:  Stammers never stops once he posts an opinion and ANYONE disagrees with it.

You actually read his stuff?

Has he said anything that isn't correct? I haven't heard anything.

(09-11-2019 09:33 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 08:00 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 04:02 PM)WiseMan Wrote:  Stammers never stops once he posts an opinion and ANYONE disagrees with it.

You actually read his stuff?

Has he said anything that isn't correct? I haven't heard anything.

Wiseman thinks that White is a great quarterback, and Henderson is a good running back.

(09-11-2019 10:03 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 09:33 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 08:00 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 04:02 PM)WiseMan Wrote:  Stammers never stops once he posts an opinion and ANYONE disagrees with it.

You actually read his stuff?

Has he said anything that isn't correct? I haven't heard anything.

Wiseman thinks that White is a great quarterback, and Henderson is a good running back.

Henderson's 8.9 a carry makes him just swell. Leading the nation in 40 plus yard carries makes him peachy keen. He did a nice job. Glad he made the team. Yay.

People will learn one day that some people are here to have discussions some just want to debate and fight.

They get to a point that nothing matters but winning.. logic be damned

(09-11-2019 11:26 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  People will learn one day that some people are here to have discussions since just want to debate and fight.

They get to a point that nothing matters but winning.. logic be damned

I've been around since 05. I want to talk to people about how we can make ourselves better. Getting through all the mud can be a challenge. We should all be here for the same reason. Make us better. We all want the same thing.

(09-11-2019 09:29 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 03:14 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:44 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:10 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:05 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Good point. If White was the quarterback, we probably would have only had additional losses to Temple and Houston; so 6-7.

You realize the Temple game Riley was a non-factor?

Memphis scored on a pick 6 and also Pollard ran back a KO for a TD.
The other two scores were a fantastic handoff from Riley to Dorceus which allowed him to run 71 yards fora TD and Henderson had a 28 yard run.

You can come up with anecdotal examples where Ferguson didn't do this or that or benefitted from this or that, but we had a ton of drives where 80-90% of our yardage was on runs, with many of them being long runs.

In a game like that I would expect White to make half the throws that Ferguson did and to get sacked 8 times instead of 4 times. Ferguson played poorly in the first game in 2017 against UCF and the Ole Piss game in 2016. Other than that he played very well and won a lot of games for us.

Look at the Houston game. We win 52-31 so White must have had a great game, right?

21-33
209 yards
63.7%
6.3 yards per attempt
1 touchdown
2 interceptions

We scored 52 points and you can easily argue that White tried to singlehandedly lose the game for us. One pick 6 for 63 yards and another pick at Houston's 1 yard line. And that game and this season's Ole Piss game don't even count in all of the data I have put up because we actually won both games.

I can't think of any game that White won for us.

He also doesn't lose games for us (Ferguson had at least one game where interceptions cost us-- maybe against UCF?). I'm not a huge Brady White fan, but I'll admit that I don't worry about his decision-making abilities (Ferguson could be frustrating at times).

I think Adair should get more looks. But, he did throw a fair amount of interceptions based on reports from camp. Is the trade-off in the athleticism and play-making ability that he provides worth the real risk that his turnovers could cost us a game? Do we trade consistency for someone more dynamic? Can we strike a balance and bring Adair in on certain series to keep defenses honest?

I'm not a big proponent of playing not to lose. I believe that if you play with that mindset, you lose. You have to take some chances.

If White is the best man for the job, then play him. If there are better options with high risk high reward, I tend to lean that way though. I don't want us to play conservative/scared/park the bus (soccer term)/prevent....yadda yadda. It's not my cup of tea.

Everyone does not drink the same tea. i drink another brand. Support the team playing to win and having confidence in your starters until proven wrong.

(09-12-2019 04:54 AM)tigergeorge55 Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 09:29 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 03:14 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:44 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:10 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  You realize the Temple game Riley was a non-factor?

Memphis scored on a pick 6 and also Pollard ran back a KO for a TD.
The other two scores were a fantastic handoff from Riley to Dorceus which allowed him to run 71 yards fora TD and Henderson had a 28 yard run.

You can come up with anecdotal examples where Ferguson didn't do this or that or benefitted from this or that, but we had a ton of drives where 80-90% of our yardage was on runs, with many of them being long runs.

In a game like that I would expect White to make half the throws that Ferguson did and to get sacked 8 times instead of 4 times. Ferguson played poorly in the first game in 2017 against UCF and the Ole Piss game in 2016. Other than that he played very well and won a lot of games for us.

Look at the Houston game. We win 52-31 so White must have had a great game, right?

21-33
209 yards
63.7%
6.3 yards per attempt
1 touchdown
2 interceptions

We scored 52 points and you can easily argue that White tried to singlehandedly lose the game for us. One pick 6 for 63 yards and another pick at Houston's 1 yard line. And that game and this season's Ole Piss game don't even count in all of the data I have put up because we actually won both games.

I can't think of any game that White won for us.

He also doesn't lose games for us (Ferguson had at least one game where interceptions cost us-- maybe against UCF?). I'm not a huge Brady White fan, but I'll admit that I don't worry about his decision-making abilities (Ferguson could be frustrating at times).

I think Adair should get more looks. But, he did throw a fair amount of interceptions based on reports from camp. Is the trade-off in the athleticism and play-making ability that he provides worth the real risk that his turnovers could cost us a game? Do we trade consistency for someone more dynamic? Can we strike a balance and bring Adair in on certain series to keep defenses honest?

I'm not a big proponent of playing not to lose. I believe that if you play with that mindset, you lose. You have to take some chances.

If White is the best man for the job, then play him. If there are better options with high risk high reward, I tend to lean that way though. I don't want us to play conservative/scared/park the bus (soccer term)/prevent....yadda yadda. It's not my cup of tea.

Everyone does not drink the same tea. i drink another brand. Support the team playing to win and having confidence in your starters until proven wrong.

Nothing wrong with that.

I think most generally agree that Brady doesn’t have the arm strength of Lynch or Ferg. We think that limits downfield throws, threat and actual. At least, that’s my own general observation. But as far as “blame” on what’s limiting explosiveness of the offense, it’s a big deal and difference that Lynch played with 4(?) skill position players (concede that at different stages of development) that ended up and some still on NFL rosters. Ferg inherited some of them and added two NFL RBs. I’m not sure how many eventual skill position nfl players we currently have

(09-12-2019 10:09 AM)tigerbluejs Wrote:  I think most generally agree that Brady doesn’t have the arm strength of Lynch or Ferg. We think that limits downfield throws, threat and actual. At least, that’s my own general observation. But as far as “blame” on what’s limiting explosiveness of the offense, it’s a big deal and difference that Lynch played with 4(?) skill position players (concede that at different stages of development) that ended up and some still on NFL rosters. Ferg inherited some of them and added two NFL RBs. I’m not sure how many eventual skill position nfl players we currently have

Great post and those are all important points. Can we just make a blanket statement and say that Miller, Mayhue and Frazier were great and our current wide receivers are not great? When Ferguson inherited all of them there were 500-700 yard receivers with Lynch, who was a great quarterback. Do they improve as much with White? Does anyone envision Miller having 95 catches and 1,462 yards with White as the quarterback?

Conversely, would all of our receivers and tight ends aside from Coxie show little progress or regress if they had Ferguson or Lynch as their quarterback? Would our offense and opposing defenses line up the same way if Ferguson was our quarterback? Would they have looked the same in 2016-17 if White was our quarterback?

My tone is consistent with stuff like this. I didn't bash Larry, but when posters said he deserved another year it forced me to argue against that with what I think are facts. When posters were saying that Lomax was going to be great right away, my opinion of what type of a player he would be wasn't bashing him, there is no shame being ranked in the 150's, but don't expect him to be Joe Jackson out of the gate.

White is an average D1 quarterback, and there is no shame in that, and no shame in him not being as good as Lynch or Ferguson. Taylor is a very good running back, but if posters say he is better than Henderson, of course the comparison will not favour him.

This is the same principle. It's fine to think highly of White but not at the expense of saying that the scheme we run, and the throws he makes are because the offensive line isn't very good, and the wide receivers and tight ends can't get open.

(09-11-2019 02:26 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:18 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:03 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 01:53 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  #3 wasn't the number one receiver when Lynch was there. Mose Frazier was. Not exactly a speed merchant. Paxton threw it all over the yard too.

Talking about QB's under Norvell

(09-11-2019 01:53 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  Brady White does not have good deep pass accuracy. He just doesn't. This whole idea that he's even a good manager of the game is even questionable to me. If he was, then how do you explain him not being able to get his offense to score points in the second half of big games that he had big leads in at half-time. Good game managers answer after their opponents score. White didn't.

Since I'm a touchy feely guy who likes the eye test more than stats, I thought I'd do a little stat checking of my own.

In six losses last year his Adjusted Quarterback Rating was a whopping 41.3 avg. Of those six losses he had the lead in five of those games. Some game manager. I guess if you say it enough times it becomes fact.

Brady White is a good game manager, Brady is a good game manager, Brady is a good game manager, Brady is a good game manager, ............

Eye test is you had NFL level receiver who could go anywhere on the field to catch a ball.

That helps.

Like it said about going over the middle, it just opens stuff up.

If given the choice to keep Brady 2019 here or go Bill and Ted and bring 2017 Riley here, I would take Riley.

I just don't buy into the Brady is trash/Brady isn't good/any loss will be because of Brady/etc...

We haven't trashed Coxie because he isn't Miller, haven't trashed Taylor because he isn't DH. We also aren't saying Memphis won't win the AAC because those guys couldn't live up to their predecessors.

But we do for Brady.

And David Moore (thankfully) isn't walking through that door.

I agree Miller was a big weapon, but could you imagine if White didn't have Henderson last year. I don't know what our record would have been.

Honestly, the record is no different.

Maybe better--and hold on because I know that sounds silly.

Memphis lost six games--two of which (Wake and Mizzou) Henderson already didn't play.

Memphis also lost twice to UCF and Navy--(three of Henderson's best four games last year) so it, end result, didn't matter.

The only other game Memphis lost was to Tulane. Granted, Henderson was the only good player, but if he doesn't play, maybe the team doesn't sleepwalk though it in the beginning.

Every other game was a game Memphis was winning with out without Henderson.

This is the worst take I've ever seen

(09-11-2019 09:10 PM)Tigerbythetail Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 03:58 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 03:50 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Whatever.

This is turning into absolute nonsense.

And the bigger point is what is the end game in this bitchfest?

David Moore ain't walking through the door. Riley has exhausted his eligibility.

If we're saying let's bench the starting QB for the reigning, defending, undisputed American Western Champs and the 2018 AAC passing yards leader, then I guess let's go back to the "Adair" thread.

If not, this Brady vs. Riley is nothing more than mental masturbation.

Peace.

The end game is that he is an average quarterback that is holding us back and there is nothing we can do about it; especially continually blaming the offensive line, wide receivers and tight ends.

All of the other pieces seem to be in place to have a great season, instead of a good season.

Nah, the end game is that COACH Norvell has White as his starting QB. I'll stick with Norvell's choice.

And Pastner is our basketball coach and you'll stick with his decision to bench Joe Jackson, and kick Tarik off the team, and play favorites, and be a control freak

And Tubby Smith is our basketball coach and you'll stick with his recruiting methods and his putting Saul on staff and kicking the Lawsons out

And Tommy West is our football coach and who cares about the star system for recruits, he has his own evaluation method

And Larry Porter is our coach and you'll stick with his recruiting expertise and playcalling

We've seen this argument a million times on the board. Just because somebody is the coach doesn't make him infallible. Make an argument on the merits not on an appeal to authority.

I just read through this thread. Makes me tired. Who cares about all this? Barring injury, Brady White is going to be our QB for this season and next. If you have an issue with it, email Norvell and complain. Last time I checked, we are 2-0 and still favored in every remaining game.

It's difficult to have ANY discussion about football on here without it devolving into this silly argument. Paxton ain't here. Ferguson ain't here. Brady is. GTG!

(09-11-2019 02:26 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:18 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:03 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 01:53 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  #3 wasn't the number one receiver when Lynch was there. Mose Frazier was. Not exactly a speed merchant. Paxton threw it all over the yard too.

Talking about QB's under Norvell

(09-11-2019 01:53 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  Brady White does not have good deep pass accuracy. He just doesn't. This whole idea that he's even a good manager of the game is even questionable to me. If he was, then how do you explain him not being able to get his offense to score points in the second half of big games that he had big leads in at half-time. Good game managers answer after their opponents score. White didn't.

Since I'm a touchy feely guy who likes the eye test more than stats, I thought I'd do a little stat checking of my own.

In six losses last year his Adjusted Quarterback Rating was a whopping 41.3 avg. Of those six losses he had the lead in five of those games. Some game manager. I guess if you say it enough times it becomes fact.

Brady White is a good game manager, Brady is a good game manager, Brady is a good game manager, Brady is a good game manager, ............

Eye test is you had NFL level receiver who could go anywhere on the field to catch a ball.

That helps.

Like it said about going over the middle, it just opens stuff up.

If given the choice to keep Brady 2019 here or go Bill and Ted and bring 2017 Riley here, I would take Riley.

I just don't buy into the Brady is trash/Brady isn't good/any loss will be because of Brady/etc...

We haven't trashed Coxie because he isn't Miller, haven't trashed Taylor because he isn't DH. We also aren't saying Memphis won't win the AAC because those guys couldn't live up to their predecessors.

But we do for Brady.

And David Moore (thankfully) isn't walking through that door.

I agree Miller was a big weapon, but could you imagine if White didn't have Henderson last year. I don't know what our record would have been.

Honestly, the record is no different.

Maybe better--and hold on because I know that sounds silly.

Memphis lost six games--two of which (Wake and Mizzou) Henderson already didn't play.

Memphis also lost twice to UCF and Navy--(three of Henderson's best four games last year) so it, end result, didn't matter.

The only other game Memphis lost was to Tulane. Granted, Henderson was the only good player, but if he doesn't play, maybe the team doesn't sleepwalk though it in the beginning.

Every other game was a game Memphis was winning with out without Henderson.

i'm glad i'm not a boy. that's all i can say

(09-11-2019 02:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:00 PM)Stammers Wrote:  That is true, but I would also counter with the fact that we ran for 3,919 yards in White's 14 games, and 4,633 yards in Ferguson's 26 games. Can you imagine if defenders would have had to put 1 or 2 more players in the box against Ferguson or if they didn't have to put so many in the box against White?

In an apples to apples comparison, White would not have come close to putting up the same number of points as Ferguson, and Ferguson would have put up bigger numbers than White. The difference is exponential.

Both 1st years for Riley and Brady
2016: Memphis 38.8 ppg
2018: Memphis 42.9 ppg

Both 1st years rushing for Riley and Brady
2016: 2,071 yards, 4.3 per carry, 23 touchdowns
2018: 3,919 yards, 6.4 per carry, 48 touchdowns

We have two posters here who are claiming that White is a superstar at handing off and there is no way Henderson would have had all those yards if Ferguson was the quarterback.

(09-12-2019 12:08 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:00 PM)Stammers Wrote:  That is true, but I would also counter with the fact that we ran for 3,919 yards in White's 14 games, and 4,633 yards in Ferguson's 26 games. Can you imagine if defenders would have had to put 1 or 2 more players in the box against Ferguson or if they didn't have to put so many in the box against White?

In an apples to apples comparison, White would not have come close to putting up the same number of points as Ferguson, and Ferguson would have put up bigger numbers than White. The difference is exponential.

Both 1st years for Riley and Brady
2016: Memphis 38.8 ppg
2018: Memphis 42.9 ppg

Both 1st years rushing for Riley and Brady
2016: 2,071 yards, 4.3 per carry, 23 touchdowns
2018: 3,919 yards, 6.4 per carry, 48 touchdowns

We have two posters here who are claiming that White is a superstar at handing off and there is no way Henderson would have had all those yards if Ferguson was the quarterback.

Did White boff your old lady or something? Hard to comprehend your obsessed hatred for the guy.


He is top 10 in several CAREER stats for the Tigers after just 16 games. If he remains three years he will be top 2 or maybe even the top QB in Memphis history in a number of these areas.

His terrible season last year was only the 4th best in single-season passing yards in Memphis history, Number 4 in single-season passing TDs in Memphis history. 4th in TDs in a single game(TWICE).

What the F does this guy have to do in order for you to accept him?

First year as Tiger QB
Lynch 9 TDs 10 Ints Rating 110.4
Ferguson 32 TDs 10 Ints Rating 152.6
White 26 TDs 9 Ints Rating 150.7