(09-11-2019 02:10 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:05 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 01:52 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 01:46 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Another central point to breaking down each throw. Never mind long balls, a fraction of balls thrown between 10-20 yards. White had receivers open downfield many times, and almost always either missed them or wasn't able to hit them in stride. White defenders are now taking it for granted that any pass of more than 11 yards is a long ball.

This doesn't even take into account when slow as molasses White is rushed or sacked when any other quarterback would be able to avoid the rush and make throws, run for yardage, or not get knocked down by a gust of wind.

The difference between Ferguson and White is 3-4 wins per year.

So if 2018 Riley had been QB for the 2016 team, Memphis would have gone 4-8 or 5-7?

Interesting.

Good point. If White was the quarterback, we probably would have only had additional losses to Temple and Houston; so 6-7.

You realize the Temple game Riley was a non-factor?

Memphis scored on a pick 6 and also Pollard ran back a KO for a TD.
The other two scores were a fantastic handoff from Riley to Dorceus which allowed him to run 71 yards fora TD and Henderson had a 28 yard run.

You can come up with anecdotal examples where Ferguson didn't do this or that or benefitted from this or that, but we had a ton of drives where 80-90% of our yardage was on runs, with many of them being long runs.

In a game like that I would expect White to make half the throws that Ferguson did and to get sacked 8 times instead of 4 times. Ferguson played poorly in the first game in 2017 against UCF and the Ole Piss game in 2016. Other than that he played very well and won a lot of games for us.

Look at the Houston game. We win 52-31 so White must have had a great game, right?

21-33
209 yards
63.7%
6.3 yards per attempt
1 touchdown
2 interceptions

We scored 52 points and you can easily argue that White tried to singlehandedly lose the game for us. One pick 6 for 63 yards and another pick at Houston's 1 yard line. And that game and this season's Ole Piss game don't even count in all of the data I have put up because we actually won both games.

I can't think of any game that White won for us.

(09-11-2019 02:37 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:26 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:18 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:03 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 01:53 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  #3 wasn't the number one receiver when Lynch was there. Mose Frazier was. Not exactly a speed merchant. Paxton threw it all over the yard too.

Talking about QB's under Norvell

(09-11-2019 01:53 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  Brady White does not have good deep pass accuracy. He just doesn't. This whole idea that he's even a good manager of the game is even questionable to me. If he was, then how do you explain him not being able to get his offense to score points in the second half of big games that he had big leads in at half-time. Good game managers answer after their opponents score. White didn't.

Since I'm a touchy feely guy who likes the eye test more than stats, I thought I'd do a little stat checking of my own.

In six losses last year his Adjusted Quarterback Rating was a whopping 41.3 avg. Of those six losses he had the lead in five of those games. Some game manager. I guess if you say it enough times it becomes fact.

Brady White is a good game manager, Brady is a good game manager, Brady is a good game manager, Brady is a good game manager, ............

Eye test is you had NFL level receiver who could go anywhere on the field to catch a ball.

That helps.

Like it said about going over the middle, it just opens stuff up.

If given the choice to keep Brady 2019 here or go Bill and Ted and bring 2017 Riley here, I would take Riley.

I just don't buy into the Brady is trash/Brady isn't good/any loss will be because of Brady/etc...

We haven't trashed Coxie because he isn't Miller, haven't trashed Taylor because he isn't DH. We also aren't saying Memphis won't win the AAC because those guys couldn't live up to their predecessors.

But we do for Brady.

And David Moore (thankfully) isn't walking through that door.

I agree Miller was a big weapon, but could you imagine if White didn't have Henderson last year. I don't know what our record would have been.

Honestly, the record is no different.

Maybe better--and hold on because I know that sounds silly.

Memphis lost six games--two of which (Wake and Mizzou) Henderson already didn't play.

Memphis also lost twice to UCF and Navy--(three of Henderson's best four games last year) so it, end result, didn't matter.

The only other game Memphis lost was to Tulane. Granted, Henderson was the only good player, but if he doesn't play, maybe the team doesn't sleepwalk though it in the beginning.

Every other game was a game Memphis was winning with out without Henderson.

With the exception of Navy, I'll agree. Most people I talked to couldn't believe Henderson didn't get the ball toward the end of the game. Especially Navy fans on the AAC board. Norvell brain-farted with the play calling, and Brady made some poor decisions on that final drive. It was raining but....

I hear ya, but since Memphis took the L, we can't say the outcome (despite maybe the final score ) would have been different w/o DH.

(09-11-2019 02:26 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:18 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:03 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 01:53 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  #3 wasn't the number one receiver when Lynch was there. Mose Frazier was. Not exactly a speed merchant. Paxton threw it all over the yard too.

Talking about QB's under Norvell

(09-11-2019 01:53 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  Brady White does not have good deep pass accuracy. He just doesn't. This whole idea that he's even a good manager of the game is even questionable to me. If he was, then how do you explain him not being able to get his offense to score points in the second half of big games that he had big leads in at half-time. Good game managers answer after their opponents score. White didn't.

Since I'm a touchy feely guy who likes the eye test more than stats, I thought I'd do a little stat checking of my own.

In six losses last year his Adjusted Quarterback Rating was a whopping 41.3 avg. Of those six losses he had the lead in five of those games. Some game manager. I guess if you say it enough times it becomes fact.

Brady White is a good game manager, Brady is a good game manager, Brady is a good game manager, Brady is a good game manager, ............

Eye test is you had NFL level receiver who could go anywhere on the field to catch a ball.

That helps.

Like it said about going over the middle, it just opens stuff up.

If given the choice to keep Brady 2019 here or go Bill and Ted and bring 2017 Riley here, I would take Riley.

I just don't buy into the Brady is trash/Brady isn't good/any loss will be because of Brady/etc...

We haven't trashed Coxie because he isn't Miller, haven't trashed Taylor because he isn't DH. We also aren't saying Memphis won't win the AAC because those guys couldn't live up to their predecessors.

But we do for Brady.

And David Moore (thankfully) isn't walking through that door.

I agree Miller was a big weapon, but could you imagine if White didn't have Henderson last year. I don't know what our record would have been.

Honestly, the record is no different.

Maybe better--and hold on because I know that sounds silly.

Memphis lost six games--two of which (Wake and Mizzou) Henderson already didn't play.

Memphis also lost twice to UCF and Navy--(three of Henderson's best four games last year) so it, end result, didn't matter.

The only other game Memphis lost was to Tulane. Granted, Henderson was the only good player, but if he doesn't play, maybe the team doesn't sleepwalk though it in the beginning.

Every other game was a game Memphis was winning with out without Henderson.

That doesn't add up at all. We scored 75 points in the first half of those 3 games and scored 17 points total in the 2nd half. 14 of them were on 78 yard and 59 yard runs by Henderson. White was only responsible for 3 points in 6 halves of football.

Against Tulane, White was sacked 7 times; on many of them he was barely touched, and he was getting chased down by linemen. It was very frustrating to watch. Henderson was mostly ineffective but he did have a 47 yard touchdown run and a 43 yard touchdown catch on a bad throw by White; so even in a horrible effort, he still tried to bail out White.

You look at that and it wouldn't be crazy to think that White was useless unless Henderson, Taylor and Pollard were doing all of the work for him.

If White puts up 3 more points on his own, we win 2 of those games. Think about that for a minute.

(09-11-2019 02:44 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:10 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:05 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 01:52 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 01:46 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Another central point to breaking down each throw. Never mind long balls, a fraction of balls thrown between 10-20 yards. White had receivers open downfield many times, and almost always either missed them or wasn't able to hit them in stride. White defenders are now taking it for granted that any pass of more than 11 yards is a long ball.

This doesn't even take into account when slow as molasses White is rushed or sacked when any other quarterback would be able to avoid the rush and make throws, run for yardage, or not get knocked down by a gust of wind.

The difference between Ferguson and White is 3-4 wins per year.

So if 2018 Riley had been QB for the 2016 team, Memphis would have gone 4-8 or 5-7?

Interesting.

Good point. If White was the quarterback, we probably would have only had additional losses to Temple and Houston; so 6-7.

You realize the Temple game Riley was a non-factor?

Memphis scored on a pick 6 and also Pollard ran back a KO for a TD.
The other two scores were a fantastic handoff from Riley to Dorceus which allowed him to run 71 yards fora TD and Henderson had a 28 yard run.

You can come up with anecdotal examples where Ferguson didn't do this or that or benefitted from this or that, but we had a ton of drives where 80-90% of our yardage was on runs, with many of them being long runs.

In a game like that I would expect White to make half the throws that Ferguson did and to get sacked 8 times instead of 4 times. Ferguson played poorly in the first game in 2017 against UCF and the Ole Piss game in 2016. Other than that he played very well and won a lot of games for us.

Look at the Houston game. We win 52-31 so White must have had a great game, right?

21-33
209 yards
63.7%
6.3 yards per attempt
1 touchdown
2 interceptions

We scored 52 points and you can easily argue that White tried to singlehandedly lose the game for us. One pick 6 for 63 yards and another pick at Houston's 1 yard line. And that game and this season's Ole Piss game don't even count in all of the data I have put up because we actually won both games.

I can't think of any game that White won for us.

He also doesn't lose games for us (Ferguson had at least one game where interceptions cost us-- maybe against UCF?). I'm not a huge Brady White fan, but I'll admit that I don't worry about his decision-making abilities (Ferguson could be frustrating at times).

I think Adair should get more looks. But, he did throw a fair amount of interceptions based on reports from camp. Is the trade-off in the athleticism and play-making ability that he provides worth the real risk that his turnovers could cost us a game? Do we trade consistency for someone more dynamic? Can we strike a balance and bring Adair in on certain series to keep defenses honest?

(09-11-2019 03:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:26 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:18 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:03 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 01:53 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  #3 wasn't the number one receiver when Lynch was there. Mose Frazier was. Not exactly a speed merchant. Paxton threw it all over the yard too.

Talking about QB's under Norvell

(09-11-2019 01:53 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  Brady White does not have good deep pass accuracy. He just doesn't. This whole idea that he's even a good manager of the game is even questionable to me. If he was, then how do you explain him not being able to get his offense to score points in the second half of big games that he had big leads in at half-time. Good game managers answer after their opponents score. White didn't.

Since I'm a touchy feely guy who likes the eye test more than stats, I thought I'd do a little stat checking of my own.

In six losses last year his Adjusted Quarterback Rating was a whopping 41.3 avg. Of those six losses he had the lead in five of those games. Some game manager. I guess if you say it enough times it becomes fact.

Brady White is a good game manager, Brady is a good game manager, Brady is a good game manager, Brady is a good game manager, ............

Eye test is you had NFL level receiver who could go anywhere on the field to catch a ball.

That helps.

Like it said about going over the middle, it just opens stuff up.

If given the choice to keep Brady 2019 here or go Bill and Ted and bring 2017 Riley here, I would take Riley.

I just don't buy into the Brady is trash/Brady isn't good/any loss will be because of Brady/etc...

We haven't trashed Coxie because he isn't Miller, haven't trashed Taylor because he isn't DH. We also aren't saying Memphis won't win the AAC because those guys couldn't live up to their predecessors.

But we do for Brady.

And David Moore (thankfully) isn't walking through that door.

I agree Miller was a big weapon, but could you imagine if White didn't have Henderson last year. I don't know what our record would have been.

Honestly, the record is no different.

Maybe better--and hold on because I know that sounds silly.

Memphis lost six games--two of which (Wake and Mizzou) Henderson already didn't play.

Memphis also lost twice to UCF and Navy--(three of Henderson's best four games last year) so it, end result, didn't matter.

The only other game Memphis lost was to Tulane. Granted, Henderson was the only good player, but if he doesn't play, maybe the team doesn't sleepwalk though it in the beginning.

Every other game was a game Memphis was winning with out without Henderson.

That doesn't add up at all. We scored 75 points in the first half of those 3 games and scored 17 points total in the 2nd half. 14 of them were on 78 yard and 59 yard runs by Henderson. White was only responsible for 3 points in 6 halves of football.

Against Tulane, White was sacked 7 times; on many of them he was barely touched, and he was getting chased down by linemen. It was very frustrating to watch. Henderson was mostly ineffective but he did have a 47 yard touchdown run and a 43 yard touchdown catch on a bad throw by White; so even in a horrible effort, he still tried to bail out White.

You look at that and it wouldn't be crazy to think that White was useless unless Henderson, Taylor and Pollard were doing all of the work for him.

If White puts up 3 more points on his own, we win 2 of those games. Think about that for a minute.

You want him kicking field goals now?

What you wrote had noting to do with the original point--how much worse would Memphis had been last year without Henderson.

(09-11-2019 03:22 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 03:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:26 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:18 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 02:03 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Talking about QB's under Norvell



Eye test is you had NFL level receiver who could go anywhere on the field to catch a ball.

That helps.

Like it said about going over the middle, it just opens stuff up.

If given the choice to keep Brady 2019 here or go Bill and Ted and bring 2017 Riley here, I would take Riley.

I just don't buy into the Brady is trash/Brady isn't good/any loss will be because of Brady/etc...

We haven't trashed Coxie because he isn't Miller, haven't trashed Taylor because he isn't DH. We also aren't saying Memphis won't win the AAC because those guys couldn't live up to their predecessors.

But we do for Brady.

And David Moore (thankfully) isn't walking through that door.

I agree Miller was a big weapon, but could you imagine if White didn't have Henderson last year. I don't know what our record would have been.

Honestly, the record is no different.

Maybe better--and hold on because I know that sounds silly.

Memphis lost six games--two of which (Wake and Mizzou) Henderson already didn't play.

Memphis also lost twice to UCF and Navy--(three of Henderson's best four games last year) so it, end result, didn't matter.

The only other game Memphis lost was to Tulane. Granted, Henderson was the only good player, but if he doesn't play, maybe the team doesn't sleepwalk though it in the beginning.

Every other game was a game Memphis was winning with out without Henderson.

That doesn't add up at all. We scored 75 points in the first half of those 3 games and scored 17 points total in the 2nd half. 14 of them were on 78 yard and 59 yard runs by Henderson. White was only responsible for 3 points in 6 halves of football.

Against Tulane, White was sacked 7 times; on many of them he was barely touched, and he was getting chased down by linemen. It was very frustrating to watch. Henderson was mostly ineffective but he did have a 47 yard touchdown run and a 43 yard touchdown catch on a bad throw by White; so even in a horrible effort, he still tried to bail out White.

You look at that and it wouldn't be crazy to think that White was useless unless Henderson, Taylor and Pollard were doing all of the work for him.

If White puts up 3 more points on his own, we win 2 of those games. Think about that for a minute.

You want him kicking field goals now?

What you wrote had noting to do with the original point--how much worse would Memphis had been last year without Henderson.

Our offense would have been the same as it was against Ole Piss and against good teams and it would have been the same as it was against Southern and against bad teams.

We wouldn't have scored more than 31 points against Houston, wouldn't have scored more than 35 points against USA and wouldn't have scored more than 41 points against ECU. Let's give White the benefit of the doubt and say we do win one of those games which gets us to 6-7.

Whatever.

This is turning into absolute nonsense.

And the bigger point is what is the end game in this bitchfest?

David Moore ain't walking through the door. Riley has exhausted his eligibility.

If we're saying let's bench the starting QB for the reigning, defending, undisputed American Western Champs and the 2018 AAC passing yards leader, then I guess let's go back to the "Adair" thread.

If not, this Brady vs. Riley is nothing more than mental masturbation.

Peace.

(09-11-2019 03:50 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Whatever.

This is turning into absolute nonsense.

And the bigger point is what is the end game in this bitchfest?

David Moore ain't walking through the door. Riley has exhausted his eligibility.

If we're saying let's bench the starting QB for the reigning, defending, undisputed American Western Champs and the 2018 AAC passing yards leader, then I guess let's go back to the "Adair" thread.

If not, this Brady vs. Riley is nothing more than mental masturbation.

Peace.

The end game is that he is an average quarterback that is holding us back and there is nothing we can do about it; especially continually blaming the offensive line, wide receivers and tight ends.

All of the other pieces seem to be in place to have a great season, instead of a good season.

Stammers never stops once he posts an opinion and ANYONE disagrees with it.

(09-11-2019 04:02 PM)WiseMan Wrote:  Stammers never stops once he posts an opinion and ANYONE disagrees with it.

Absolute truth!!!

(09-11-2019 03:50 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Whatever.

This is turning into absolute nonsense.

And the bigger point is what is the end game in this bitchfest?

David Moore ain't walking through the door. Riley has exhausted his eligibility.

If we're saying let's bench the starting QB for the reigning, defending, undisputed American Western Champs and the 2018 AAC passing yards leader, then I guess let's go back to the "Adair" thread.

If not, this Brady vs. Riley is nothing more than mental masturbation.

Peace.

I've given up. It is pointless trying to discuss anything with him because the bottom line is either you agree that Riley is 10x the QB (which he isn't) or you are totally wrong.

If his football knowledge was gunpowder, he couldn't blow his nose.

(09-11-2019 04:49 PM)tigernole79 Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 03:50 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Whatever.

This is turning into absolute nonsense.

And the bigger point is what is the end game in this bitchfest?

David Moore ain't walking through the door. Riley has exhausted his eligibility.

If we're saying let's bench the starting QB for the reigning, defending, undisputed American Western Champs and the 2018 AAC passing yards leader, then I guess let's go back to the "Adair" thread.

If not, this Brady vs. Riley is nothing more than mental masturbation.

Peace.

I've given up. It is pointless trying to discuss anything with him because the bottom line is either you agree that Riley is 10x the QB (which he isn't) or you are totally wrong.

If his football knowledge was gunpowder, he couldn't blow his nose.

And yet if you go back to the original post, everything I said is true, backed up by facts.

Stammers has gone off the deep end.
He has drowned and recus was un successful.

However, if he can prove absolutely that had we had Ferguson for qb last year, that we would have only punted 12 times, I will certainly laud him as the greatest football mind ever.

I won't even bother with the other ridiculous conclusions he has drawn.

Just prove that one.

i like the mighty quinn

next year, brown

(09-11-2019 07:34 PM)Unionman76 Wrote:  like the mighty quinn

Come all without, come all within
You'll not see nothing

I have faith that Stammy will show with Stammy Stats and attempt to prove the punt 12 times thing.

(09-11-2019 04:02 PM)WiseMan Wrote:  Stammers never stops once he posts an opinion and ANYONE disagrees with it.

You actually read his stuff?

(09-11-2019 07:41 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 07:34 PM)Unionman76 Wrote:  like the mighty quinn

Come all without, come all within
You'll not see nothing

Isn't Quinn a rather odd name for an Eskimo?

(09-11-2019 07:32 PM)Pastnerized Wrote:  Stammers has gone off the deep end.
He has drowned and recus was un successful.

However, if he can prove absolutely that had we had Ferguson for qb last year, that we would have only punted 12 times, I will certainly laud him as the greatest football mind ever.

I won't even bother with the other ridiculous conclusions he has drawn.

Just prove that one.

He has already claimed to prove everything else, why should that be any different?!

Sorry I got sucked into the clown show. I thought actual rational discussion was possible. He makes some of the cretins on this board appear to be intellectual giants.

(09-11-2019 08:00 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(09-11-2019 04:02 PM)WiseMan Wrote:  Stammers never stops once he posts an opinion and ANYONE disagrees with it.

You actually read his stuff?

No but his posts are imbedded in a string of posts on some replies.