(07-14-2019 04:30 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 01:40 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 01:52 AM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 12:41 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 03:02 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  I mentioned at beginning that my info does not include Army. Obviously if the AAC can get BYU or Army then they will. My info was Marshall vs everyone else.

Our football team has only had one bad season over the last 6 years. We were crippled with injuries at key positions. Once again, we have a winning percentage of 67% over the last 6 years. We won 10+ games three times, 9 games once, and 8 games once. Winning seasons and bowl wins 5/6 years. Beat Maryland, NIU (MAC Champion), UCONN, Colorado St, and USF in bowl games.

For comparison, ODU only has 1 winning season since moving up to FBS.

Flash news winning doesn't get you into conferences and if it did you guys would not have been here in CUSA with us newbies. There wasn't a single obvious candidate that AAC sees as viable at this point that is looking to get into the AAC and they might stand pat at 11 until one emerges and while these things usually move behind the scenes its hard to see a member that stands out right now. As per you poopooing on ODU regardng the performance realize that nobody cares about Marshal outside of CUSA if they did, again you will not be hanging out with newbies. For now it appears you will be staying with us lowly denizens even with your glorious performances and glittering reputation and brand value.

Neither does a 25k stadium and a massively subsidized budget.

Nothing to see here.

While that is true no ODU fan is here throwing **** on Marshal here on the other hand this POS Marshal fan has to bring ODU into this.

Oh really? Why don't you just take a gander at what I highlighted in my post above from 12th? Or are you directing that response elsewhere?

Yes i was talking about that herd129 dude who got stuck at subsidy percentages and winning seasons if it wasn't clear to you.

(07-14-2019 03:43 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 02:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 02:27 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  ODU has been to one bowl game in its history. AAC will not ruin its P6 marketing on a 22k seat stadium and one bowl appearance in school history.

I have strong sympathies for Marshall, always root for Marshall vs WVU.

But bottom line is the AAC isn't adding Marshall any more than it is adding ODU. Both are non-starters so it doesn't really matter which one is better than the other.

I don't blame you for not wanting us after we beat you 38-20 in the Gasparilla Bowl.

USF beat South Carolina in a bowl game. So we belong in the SEC? Dude... individual games do not decide this... sorry.

(07-14-2019 04:49 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 04:30 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 01:40 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 01:52 AM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 12:41 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  Flash news winning doesn't get you into conferences and if it did you guys would not have been here in CUSA with us newbies. There wasn't a single obvious candidate that AAC sees as viable at this point that is looking to get into the AAC and they might stand pat at 11 until one emerges and while these things usually move behind the scenes its hard to see a member that stands out right now. As per you poopooing on ODU regardng the performance realize that nobody cares about Marshal outside of CUSA if they did, again you will not be hanging out with newbies. For now it appears you will be staying with us lowly denizens even with your glorious performances and glittering reputation and brand value.

Neither does a 25k stadium and a massively subsidized budget.

Nothing to see here.

While that is true no ODU fan is here throwing **** on Marshal here on the other hand this POS Marshal fan has to bring ODU into this.

Oh really? Why don't you just take a gander at what I highlighted in my post above from 12th? Or are you directing that response elsewhere?

Yes i was talking about that herd129 dude who got stuck at subsidy percentages and winning seasons if it wasn't clear to you.

No, it’s all good, you just responded to my post and I wanted to make sure, that’s all.

(07-14-2019 03:31 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 12:08 AM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(07-13-2019 11:27 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Here is why Marshall is not in the conversation:

From Equity in Athletics (US Department of Education)

full time undergraduates: 7,773 (this is even fewer than UAB, Vermont, and Idaho)

Athletic budget: $30,753,677

Donations: $3,652,264
Gate: $3,887,680

Student Fees: $6,267,660
Tax Payer Money (from School): $8,078,014

This program is pretty topped out as far as support (a massive $900 a year fee for every full time student!) and subsidies (the school is transferring an addition $1000 per student to athletics from it's State of West Virginia education allocation) and still $15M/year below the bottom of the American. Where is that additional money to come from? We are talking raising $250M in the next decade to support an AAC level program.

Rather than give the AI rating (which is not good) I'll just give you indicators of AI and you can figure out where Marshall stands

4-year graduation rate  29%
Fall 2017 acceptance rate 90%
SAT 980 / ACT 19 (Marshall provided this information)

It's safe to say this would be the absolute bottom school in the American in academic terms, and by a good margin. That is saying something when the competition includes ECU, Memphis and Wichita State. Further their Endowment is only $110M, which is less than half the other small endowments of ECU, Wichita State, Memphis and UCF (UCF wtf?).

The only reason Marshall has any brand name at all is for those of us over 55 years of age who remember the tragic plane crash. There really is not a single category Marshall looks good in.

You probably shouldn’t criticize anyone regarding football, basketball, or branding. We have branding for many other reasons.

All SJSU has been is a suckling on the teet of the MWC. That plane crash comment has to be one of the most uninformed and insensitive comments I've heard on a board in a long time.

And I see that you are a fan of schools across the country. So, after the fourth week of the season when SJSU is 0-4, do you go to the closet and break out your Brutus gear?

If you have read most posts on the AAC board, most Marshall fans have said that we don't expect the invite, but they’re not getting BYU, Army, AFA, or Boise.

I’ve said my peace, and I know others will be along behind me with better factual info regarding our academics (we were ranked by either Princeton or Forbes as the #14 public university in the south). Bottom line is, you have no damned clue any more than anyone else in regard to what the AAC is doing, so whatever you say.

This reply is called "whataboutism" , which is a logical fallacy. It is also ad hominem, which may get you a warning from the mods.

But I do not take personally attacks on SJSU. If you knew anything about me, you would know that I am extremely critical of the San Jose State, it's leadership, and not just athletic, as well as the CSU system and charter. I do not defend SJSU, because I have told them for a decade that they were headed down the path they are headed because of wrong priorities and failure to understand the changing demographics of their school and city. Money in fact should not be a problem for them, but that it is, tells you everything you need to know about the school. The resources are there, but they have no clue how to harness them or organize them. So in the richest valley of high achieving families, high incomes, and money flowing in the streets they can't get their act together. So go ahead and criticize SJSU, I do it every single day.

But SJSU's problems are not relevant here. Marshall and it's potential for the AAC, which to be honest is none. Realistically Marshall needs to double it's student enrollment, while raising it's AI (which by the way is more than a bit lower than SJSU). And they need to double their endowment and donations, and double the revenue they get from ticket sales if they wish to be at AAC level.

Having great fans is not an issue. For a small school in the boonies Marshall does pretty well, in fact I think as well as it ever can do. But the fact is Marshall does not have the resources of Cincinnati, Houston, Central Florida or South Florida to actually compete (same story for UAB, La Tech and USM). These are schools with 4 times, 5 times, even 8 times the number of students, in much larger and wealthier metros, with much larger pools of alumni to draw from. Marshall is woefully short. Marshall already subsidizes sports at a tune of $1900 per student. That is a higher per student subsidy than any school in G5 including Eastern Michigan! Then throw in the high academic standards or SMU, Tulsa, Tulane and Navy and you see Marshall is completely outclassed in this conference in every category.

In C-USA, Marshall is a middling school, with comparable smaller schools like Louisiana Tech and Southern Miss. It's a fair fit.

It's a harsh reality. Geography kills larger schools like North Dakota State and Montana State, and of course Marshall.

Just so you are aware, you might want to look over to the left and look under my name. What’s it say? I stay within the AUP.

<————————————————over here

So are we a middling school are we a large school? You labeled us as both in your post. No credibility. Oh, and I love how you fail to address your classless post about the only reason we have branding which, by the way, is a blatant falsehood.

And now this little back and forth is over.

(06-28-2019 06:51 AM)freshtop Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 12:42 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Marshall University is the best choice if the AAC is unable to get BYU, Army, or any of the MWC teams.


Marshall has football history and brand recognition. Longest bowl winning streak in country and the overall best bowl winning percentage in the country. Only potential candidate who has finished ranked in the Top 25 over the last 6 years.

I still think that Army + VCU is the best option for AAC, or staying at 11.

However, WKU finished the 2015 Football season ranked 24th. Unless you aren't putting us in as a potential candidate (and if WKU is a stretch as a candidate then Marshall isn't too far ahead if you get my drift).

This is a nice cherry picked stat since WKU finished ranked 7 years ago (our potential to be selected is as good as several other names being thrown out which isn't much). BTW, nobody in CUSA has a budget that comes close to the average in the AAC (especially USM since I think they have the lowest budget in all of CUSA).

(06-28-2019 06:57 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 03:08 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 03:05 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  As an App State fan/alum, I'd first prefer my school but would much rather see a Marshall or a Southern Miss get called up than one of these big market schools that can't get anyone to come to their games, and also stink at football more often than not

Yep. It's much better to have a large, engaged fan base in mid-size market than an empty stadium in a big market.

The addition of Rutgers to B1G says otherwise

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Maryland

Pitt

Syracuse....

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(08-02-2021 07:08 PM)panama Wrote:  

(06-28-2019 06:57 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 03:08 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 03:05 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  As an App State fan/alum, I'd first prefer my school but would much rather see a Marshall or a Southern Miss get called up than one of these big market schools that can't get anyone to come to their games, and also stink at football more often than not

Yep. It's much better to have a large, engaged fan base in mid-size market than an empty stadium in a big market.

The addition of Rutgers to B1G says otherwise

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Maryland

Pitt

Syracuse....

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Boom! Only took 2 years for that comeback!

(08-02-2021 07:08 PM)panama Wrote:  

(06-28-2019 06:57 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 03:08 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 03:05 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  As an App State fan/alum, I'd first prefer my school but would much rather see a Marshall or a Southern Miss get called up than one of these big market schools that can't get anyone to come to their games, and also stink at football more often than not

Yep. It's much better to have a large, engaged fan base in mid-size market than an empty stadium in a big market.

The addition of Rutgers to B1G says otherwise

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Maryland

Pitt

Syracuse....

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All three of which have won national championships in FB and 2 of 3 have won in BB. Also, Syracuse is in a mid-sized market. It just happens to be the only major football school for a population of 5 million that is easily accessible from all directions via Interstate.

(08-02-2021 07:23 PM)whittx Wrote:  

(08-02-2021 07:08 PM)panama Wrote:  

(06-28-2019 06:57 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 03:08 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 03:05 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  As an App State fan/alum, I'd first prefer my school but would much rather see a Marshall or a Southern Miss get called up than one of these big market schools that can't get anyone to come to their games, and also stink at football more often than not

Yep. It's much better to have a large, engaged fan base in mid-size market than an empty stadium in a big market.

The addition of Rutgers to B1G says otherwise

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Maryland

Pitt

Syracuse....

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

All three of which have won national championships in FB and 2 of 3 have won in BB. Also, Syracuse is in a mid-sized market. It just happens to be the only major football school for a population of 5 million that is easily accessible from all directions via Interstate.

Precisely

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Won Loss record is irrelevant in realignment.

Cultural fit, geography are much more Orr important.

Missouri

South Carolina

The list goes on...

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(07-14-2019 11:47 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  West Virginia had the highest income growth for the first quarter of 2019 (percentage wise.)

It has taken some time but our state is finally turning the corner in terms of recovering from the war on coal.

Marshall is located in the southwestern part of the state in the largest city in West Virginia. The majority of the population is near us.

There are only 2 FBS schools in West Virginia and no FCS schools. The majority of people in West Virginia root/watch both schools. That's one of the reasons we historically have good TV ratings.

The income growth was due to fracking operations in several parts of the state. A boom not unlike what ND experienced earlier. It causes a boom for the roughnecks' income, but little hiring compared to the overall economy. It is a band aid compared to the reality that competitive, labor intensive coal production isn't coming back.

I am WV born (Hinton) and whenever I return to my home area there is no turning the corner, just downhill. My cousin works for a mining operation near Beckley with under 50 employees. The majority of the family cousins are out of state. EMT's or meth labs are damn near the best job options. The folks are the salt of the earth but WV has the lowest labor participation percentage with the highest enrollment in Medicare. I still follow WV HS sports (go James Monroe Mavericks!) and the enrollment drops and consolidations are hard to see. Every time I go through Morgantown it hasn't changed a lot. Pittsburgh-area alums prop up WVU athletics. When I stop in Huntington and Charleston they feel like a bad version of Binghamton, NY or Altoona, PA ...and both those towns are bad. WV is now 40th in population and the Charleston/Huntington media market has dropped to 75th, no longer 70th. If it were not for the Eastern Panhandle counties gaining 20K residents, WV would have lost 80K the last 10 years.

I don't think the AAC should look at what a school is today, but rather where it is today plus upside. Marshall would not be my first choice. I would put Ga State, UAB. and maybe even charlotte above Marshall.

(08-03-2021 08:11 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I don't think the AAC should look at what a school is today, but rather where it is today plus upside. Marshall would not be my first choice. I would put Ga State, UAB. and maybe even charlotte above Marshall.

Never forget that Marshall is the school who went to bat for UCF and got you invited to both the MAC and CUSA. Who knows where UCF would be today if it weren’t for us giving you a hand up back then.

(08-03-2021 09:05 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 08:11 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I don't think the AAC should look at what a school is today, but rather where it is today plus upside. Marshall would not be my first choice. I would put Ga State, UAB. and maybe even charlotte above Marshall.

Never forget that Marshall is the school who went to bat for UCF and got you invited to both the MAC and CUSA. Who knows where UCF would be today if it weren’t for us giving you a hand up back then.

That doesn't mean much Herd.. like it or not, conferences are a a cut-throat _business_ and once a university is fortunate enough to move to a bigger "piece of the pie", they want to keep that bigger piece.

As an outsider looking in, I think Marshall would get consideration and would be a solid add, but supposing that none of the MWC schools wanted to come over, I think App State would probably be about the top target.

(08-03-2021 09:15 AM)3BNole Wrote:  As an outsider looking in, I think Marshall would get consideration and would be a solid add, but supposing that none of the MWC schools wanted to come over, I think App State would probably be about the top target.

It does depend on who is taken, since whatever the AAC does, they would want to keep Navy happy. If it's only UC and Houston taken, I can see Rice being added to make a five school Western division that would satisfy Navy: Navy, SMU, Rice, Tulane, Tulsa.

If its a bigger raid of the AAC, it may be that App State and Georgia Southern come into the frame as candidates.

(08-03-2021 10:45 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-03-2021 09:15 AM)3BNole Wrote:  As an outsider looking in, I think Marshall would get consideration and would be a solid add, but supposing that none of the MWC schools wanted to come over, I think App State would probably be about the top target.

It does depend on who is taken, since whatever the AAC does, they would want to keep Navy happy. If it's only UC and Houston taken, I can see Rice being added to make a five school Western division that would satisfy Navy: Navy, SMU, Rice, Tulane, Tulsa.

If its a bigger raid of the AAC, it may be that App State and Georgia Southern come into the frame as candidates.

App State would be the #1 addition for CUSA if the Texas CUSA schools head to the MWC. That would flip CUSA and SBC in FB strength.

I think they would do it to under that circumstance to be with Marshall, Charlotte and ODU.

(08-03-2021 09:15 AM)3BNole Wrote:  As an outsider looking in, I think Marshall would get consideration and would be a solid add, but supposing that none of the MWC schools wanted to come over, I think App State would probably be about the top target.

They certainly merit consideration. But I would agree that when it comes to potential—Marshall is probably much closer to being topped out than some other programs that would be considered a half step behind Marshall today. If the AAC gets decimated by the Big12 leftovers—-Marshall would likely be in. It depends on who the B12 takes and what the strategy going forward turns out to be. For all we know, the AAC might desire to emerge from realignment as a more compact largely east coast based conference. A lot will depend on what is left of the AAC after the carnage.

If football and men's bball matter the most then LaTech has a better argument over Marshall based on overall winning percentages since 2014 which is when the current form of CUSA started.

(08-03-2021 08:11 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I don't think the AAC should look at what a school is today, but rather where it is today plus upside. Marshall would not be my first choice. I would put Ga State, UAB. and maybe even charlotte above Marshall.

There is a reason why its always the same programs in the club. Those in the club grow at 10% a year, G5 at 5% a year and FCS at 2.5% a year.

Marshall having been FBS for 25 years has a head start on GSU, Charlotte and Appalachian State. If you look at the clubs the AAC has expanded with they've all had quite a lot of tradition (UCF even was FBS since 1996). They didn't take in project schools.

If you noticed the trajectory of the AAC programs relative to the MWC/MAC/CUSA/SBC as time has gone on they've been pulling away. In similar fashion the XII as a step up has pulled away from AAC basketball over time.