(06-28-2019 09:03 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  According to every inside source, the only two candidates are BYU and Army. So this is a moot point.

And if both say no??

(07-14-2019 02:14 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(06-28-2019 06:57 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 03:08 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 03:05 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  As an App State fan/alum, I'd first prefer my school but would much rather see a Marshall or a Southern Miss get called up than one of these big market schools that can't get anyone to come to their games, and also stink at football more often than not

Yep. It's much better to have a large, engaged fan base in mid-size market than an empty stadium in a big market.

The addition of Rutgers to B1G says otherwise

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

You use Rutgers, but there are flops too like UTSA, FIU, and Charlotte. Even Georgia State has been pushed around by small market Troy quite a bit.

Hell Dawg, lil ol small market App is the Daddy of the SBC! Good for App and Troy!

(07-14-2019 12:08 AM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(07-13-2019 11:27 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Here is why Marshall is not in the conversation:

From Equity in Athletics (US Department of Education)

full time undergraduates: 7,773 (this is even fewer than UAB, Vermont, and Idaho)

Athletic budget: $30,753,677

Donations: $3,652,264
Gate: $3,887,680

Student Fees: $6,267,660
Tax Payer Money (from School): $8,078,014

This program is pretty topped out as far as support (a massive $900 a year fee for every full time student!) and subsidies (the school is transferring an addition $1000 per student to athletics from it's State of West Virginia education allocation) and still $15M/year below the bottom of the American. Where is that additional money to come from? We are talking raising $250M in the next decade to support an AAC level program.

Rather than give the AI rating (which is not good) I'll just give you indicators of AI and you can figure out where Marshall stands

4-year graduation rate  29%
Fall 2017 acceptance rate 90%
SAT 980 / ACT 19 (Marshall provided this information)

It's safe to say this would be the absolute bottom school in the American in academic terms, and by a good margin. That is saying something when the competition includes ECU, Memphis and Wichita State. Further their Endowment is only $110M, which is less than half the other small endowments of ECU, Wichita State, Memphis and UCF (UCF wtf?).

The only reason Marshall has any brand name at all is for those of us over 55 years of age who remember the tragic plane crash. There really is not a single category Marshall looks good in.

You probably shouldn’t criticize anyone regarding football, basketball, or branding. We have branding for many other reasons.

All SJSU has been is a suckling on the teet of the MWC. That plane crash comment has to be one of the most uninformed and insensitive comments I've heard on a board in a long time.

And I see that you are a fan of schools across the country. So, after the fourth week of the season when SJSU is 0-4, do you go to the closet and break out your Brutus gear?

If you have read most posts on the AAC board, most Marshall fans have said that we don't expect the invite, but they’re not getting BYU, Army, AFA, or Boise.

I’ve said my peace, and I know others will be along behind me with better factual info regarding our academics (we were ranked by either Princeton or Forbes as the #14 public university in the south). Bottom line is, you have no damned clue any more than anyone else in regard to what the AAC is doing, so whatever you say.

This reply is called "whataboutism" , which is a logical fallacy. It is also ad hominem, which may get you a warning from the mods.

But I do not take personally attacks on SJSU. If you knew anything about me, you would know that I am extremely critical of the San Jose State, it's leadership, and not just athletic, as well as the CSU system and charter. I do not defend SJSU, because I have told them for a decade that they were headed down the path they are headed because of wrong priorities and failure to understand the changing demographics of their school and city. Money in fact should not be a problem for them, but that it is, tells you everything you need to know about the school. The resources are there, but they have no clue how to harness them or organize them. So in the richest valley of high achieving families, high incomes, and money flowing in the streets they can't get their act together. So go ahead and criticize SJSU, I do it every single day.

But SJSU's problems are not relevant here. Marshall and it's potential for the AAC, which to be honest is none. Realistically Marshall needs to double it's student enrollment, while raising it's AI (which by the way is more than a bit lower than SJSU). And they need to double their endowment and donations, and double the revenue they get from ticket sales if they wish to be at AAC level.

Having great fans is not an issue. For a small school in the boonies Marshall does pretty well, in fact I think as well as it ever can do. But the fact is Marshall does not have the resources of Cincinnati, Houston, Central Florida or South Florida to actually compete (same story for UAB, La Tech and USM). These are schools with 4 times, 5 times, even 8 times the number of students, in much larger and wealthier metros, with much larger pools of alumni to draw from. Marshall is woefully short. Marshall already subsidizes sports at a tune of $1900 per student. That is a higher per student subsidy than any school in G5 including Eastern Michigan! Then throw in the high academic standards or SMU, Tulsa, Tulane and Navy and you see Marshall is completely outclassed in this conference in every category.

In C-USA, Marshall is a middling school, with comparable smaller schools like Louisiana Tech and Southern Miss. It's a fair fit.

It's a harsh reality. Geography kills larger schools like North Dakota State and Montana State, and of course Marshall.

I don't know what ad hominem is, or whataboutism is either (and I graduated from college!!), but I can see where some of my replies might have got warnings from mods. That why I chose to delete them.

Money is a big issue for Troy, USM, Marshall, and App State, but yet they seem to thrive in spite of it. $$'s though was the big reason Louisville was invited to the Big East and the ACC, IMO. I remember Louisville progressing from middling school to a big school, and every time their budget was cited as the reason why they got the invitations they did. Why did USM hire the president that it did? Why did Marshall hire Hamrick? They want to continue to move up. It's also why USM made no attempt to keep its old AD, and why it hired Troy's AD.

(07-13-2019 11:27 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Here is why Marshall is not in the conversation:

From Equity in Athletics (US Department of Education)

full time undergraduates: 7,773 (this is even fewer than UAB, Vermont, and Idaho)

Athletic budget: $30,753,677

Donations: $3,652,264
Gate: $3,887,680

Student Fees: $6,267,660
Tax Payer Money (from School): $8,078,014

This program is pretty topped out as far as support (a massive $900 a year fee for every full time student!) and subsidies (the school is transferring an addition $1000 per student to athletics from it's State of West Virginia education allocation) and still $15M/year below the bottom of the American. Where is that additional money to come from? We are talking raising $250M in the next decade to support an AAC level program.

Rather than give the AI rating (which is not good) I'll just give you indicators of AI and you can figure out where Marshall stands

4-year graduation rate  29%
Fall 2017 acceptance rate 90%
SAT 980 / ACT 19 (Marshall provided this information)

It's safe to say this would be the absolute bottom school in the American in academic terms, and by a good margin. That is saying something when the competition includes ECU, Memphis and Wichita State. Further their Endowment is only $110M, which is less than half the other small endowments of ECU, Wichita State, Memphis and UCF (UCF wtf?).

The only reason Marshall has any brand name at all is for those of us over 55 years of age who remember the tragic plane crash. There really is not a single category Marshall looks good in.

Marshall enrollment is around 14k students. Still small, but much higher than the 7k you try to say we have. We are a Carnegie R2 High Research University. We have the #1 Forensic Science program in the country.

ODU and others have student fees much higher than ours.

We are only 48% subsidized compared to San Jose St who is 67% subsidized. ODU is over 62% subsidized.

Extra money from AAC moves our budget closer to $40 million. We are currently over $30 million.

Our last report we had almost $4 million in ticket sales. San Jose state had less than $1 million in ticket sales.

San Jose State like most of these other schools are in a big market, have a big student population, but guess what, no one cares enough to show up and/or support your school.

(07-14-2019 02:25 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(06-28-2019 09:03 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  According to every inside source, the only two candidates are BYU and Army. So this is a moot point.

And if both say no??

BYU and Florida St. and Ohio St. aren't coming.

Army and Air Force are probably their best two choices. After that its a group that all have positives and negatives.
Rice
Southern Miss
Marshall
UMass
NIU
Buffalo

My best bet is that Army and Air Force aren't interested and they go with Southern Miss.

Marshall to me is like a buy low/sell high stock.

In 1999 the price was 20 dollars. Right now the price is like 15 dollars.

Long term the state of WV is going to get stronger economically. Marshall will continue to improve its academics. Huntington will get gentrified.

This compared to WVU which is trading at 50 dollars per share but doesn't have much potential on the upside.

(07-01-2019 09:49 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  I love how ODU's $46MM 55% subsidized budget is god awful, but Marshall's $30MM 50% subsidized budget is amazing.

I agree with this sentiment. I would consider ODU and Marshall's subsidies to be about equal in terms of sustainability. So it seems odd to bash ODU and praise Marshall.

ODU's subsidy per student per year is $1,187 while Marshall's is $1,089.

And while this doesn't account for aid (actual cost paid by students) or cost of living (actual take-home pay), each subsidy works out to about 1.8% of the median salary for their alumni.

Pretty neck and neck IMO.

(07-14-2019 09:47 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Long term the state of WV is going to get stronger economically. Marshall will continue to improve its academics. Huntington will get gentrified.

Care to share more details on your outlook?

(07-14-2019 10:54 AM)McKinney Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 09:49 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  I love how ODU's $46MM 55% subsidized budget is god awful, but Marshall's $30MM 50% subsidized budget is amazing.

I agree with this sentiment. I would consider ODU and Marshall's subsidies to be about equal in terms of sustainability. So it seems odd to bash ODU and praise Marshall.

ODU's subsidy per student per year is $1,187 while Marshall's is $1,089.

And while this doesn't account for aid (actual cost paid by students) or cost of living (actual take-home pay), each subsidy works out to about 1.8% of the median salary for their alumni.

Pretty neck and neck IMO.

Just to keep things accurate here, ODU is 62% subsidized and Marshall is 48% subsidized.

(07-14-2019 11:32 AM)McKinney Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 09:47 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Long term the state of WV is going to get stronger economically. Marshall will continue to improve its academics. Huntington will get gentrified.

Care to share more details on your outlook?

West Virginia had the highest income growth for the first quarter of 2019 (percentage wise.)

It has taken some time but our state is finally turning the corner in terms of recovering from the war on coal.

Marshall is located in the southwestern part of the state in the largest city in West Virginia. The majority of the population is near us.

There are only 2 FBS schools in West Virginia and no FCS schools. The majority of people in West Virginia root/watch both schools. That's one of the reasons we historically have good TV ratings.

(07-14-2019 11:47 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  The majority of people in West Virginia root/watch both schools.

I don't think this is even slightly accurate.

(07-14-2019 11:44 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 10:54 AM)McKinney Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 09:49 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  I love how ODU's $46MM 55% subsidized budget is god awful, but Marshall's $30MM 50% subsidized budget is amazing.

I agree with this sentiment. I would consider ODU and Marshall's subsidies to be about equal in terms of sustainability. So it seems odd to bash ODU and praise Marshall.

ODU's subsidy per student per year is $1,187 while Marshall's is $1,089.

And while this doesn't account for aid (actual cost paid by students) or cost of living (actual take-home pay), each subsidy works out to about 1.8% of the median salary for their alumni.

Pretty neck and neck IMO.

Just to keep things accurate here, ODU is 62% subsidized and Marshall is 48% subsidized.

You have to realize that we can charge another 10% and we are still one of the most affordable schools in VA. BTW we are obligated to be at 55% by the state and we will be by next year. On contrary if you raise it anymore your student population might be even more depleted. Just FYI.

(07-14-2019 01:52 AM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 12:41 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 03:02 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 01:56 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Army finished in the top 25 as the last one outside of the AAC, MWC, Northern Illinois and Western Michigan. Problem with Marshall is that their football have been a yo-yo from being above .500 to below .500 winning %.

I mentioned at beginning that my info does not include Army. Obviously if the AAC can get BYU or Army then they will. My info was Marshall vs everyone else.

Our football team has only had one bad season over the last 6 years. We were crippled with injuries at key positions. Once again, we have a winning percentage of 67% over the last 6 years. We won 10+ games three times, 9 games once, and 8 games once. Winning seasons and bowl wins 5/6 years. Beat Maryland, NIU (MAC Champion), UCONN, Colorado St, and USF in bowl games.

For comparison, ODU only has 1 winning season since moving up to FBS.

Flash news winning doesn't get you into conferences and if it did you guys would not have been here in CUSA with us newbies. There wasn't a single obvious candidate that AAC sees as viable at this point that is looking to get into the AAC and they might stand pat at 11 until one emerges and while these things usually move behind the scenes its hard to see a member that stands out right now. As per you poopooing on ODU regardng the performance realize that nobody cares about Marshal outside of CUSA if they did, again you will not be hanging out with newbies. For now it appears you will be staying with us lowly denizens even with your glorious performances and glittering reputation and brand value.

Neither does a 25k stadium and a massively subsidized budget.

Nothing to see here.

While that is true no ODU fan is here throwing **** on Marshal here on the other hand this POS Marshal fan has to bring ODU into this.

(07-14-2019 11:44 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 10:54 AM)McKinney Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 09:49 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  I love how ODU's $46MM 55% subsidized budget is god awful, but Marshall's $30MM 50% subsidized budget is amazing.

I agree with this sentiment. I would consider ODU and Marshall's subsidies to be about equal in terms of sustainability. So it seems odd to bash ODU and praise Marshall.

ODU's subsidy per student per year is $1,187 while Marshall's is $1,089.

And while this doesn't account for aid (actual cost paid by students) or cost of living (actual take-home pay), each subsidy works out to about 1.8% of the median salary for their alumni.

Pretty neck and neck IMO.

Just to keep things accurate here, ODU is 62% subsidized and Marshall is 48% subsidized.

While you are not wrong we will be at 55% next year and if percent subsidized is a metric that conferences look at members for we wouldn't have been in CUSA. You have to realize at some point better teams have moved on and will do so in the future and no need to bring someone into the equation to make you feel better about your failures/shortcomings. We didn't have a FB program 10 years ago let that sink in and all is said and done we will not be in the same conference for what its worth.

ODU has been to one bowl game in its history. AAC will not ruin its P6 marketing on a 22k seat stadium and one bowl appearance in school history.

(07-14-2019 02:27 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  ODU has been to one bowl game in its history. AAC will not ruin its P6 marketing on a 22k seat stadium and one bowl appearance in school history.

I have strong sympathies for Marshall, always root for Marshall vs WVU.

But bottom line is the AAC isn't adding Marshall any more than it is adding ODU. Both are non-starters so it doesn't really matter which one is better than the other.

(07-14-2019 02:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 02:27 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  ODU has been to one bowl game in its history. AAC will not ruin its P6 marketing on a 22k seat stadium and one bowl appearance in school history.

I have strong sympathies for Marshall, always root for Marshall vs WVU.

But bottom line is the AAC isn't adding Marshall any more than it is adding ODU. Both are non-starters so it doesn't really matter which one is better than the other.

I don't blame you for not wanting us after we beat you 38-20 in the Gasparilla Bowl.

(07-14-2019 02:27 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  ODU has been to one bowl game in its history. AAC will not ruin its P6 marketing on a 22k seat stadium and one bowl appearance in school history.

Again doesn't matter and neither of us are being discussed to death by AAC presidents. They will most likely stand pat for now and i don't care even if its otherwise but your constant belittling of ODU to make Marshal look better has got to stop.

(07-14-2019 01:40 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 01:52 AM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 12:41 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 03:02 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(06-27-2019 01:56 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Army finished in the top 25 as the last one outside of the AAC, MWC, Northern Illinois and Western Michigan. Problem with Marshall is that their football have been a yo-yo from being above .500 to below .500 winning %.

I mentioned at beginning that my info does not include Army. Obviously if the AAC can get BYU or Army then they will. My info was Marshall vs everyone else.

Our football team has only had one bad season over the last 6 years. We were crippled with injuries at key positions. Once again, we have a winning percentage of 67% over the last 6 years. We won 10+ games three times, 9 games once, and 8 games once. Winning seasons and bowl wins 5/6 years. Beat Maryland, NIU (MAC Champion), UCONN, Colorado St, and USF in bowl games.

For comparison, ODU only has 1 winning season since moving up to FBS.

Flash news winning doesn't get you into conferences and if it did you guys would not have been here in CUSA with us newbies. There wasn't a single obvious candidate that AAC sees as viable at this point that is looking to get into the AAC and they might stand pat at 11 until one emerges and while these things usually move behind the scenes its hard to see a member that stands out right now. As per you poopooing on ODU regardng the performance realize that nobody cares about Marshal outside of CUSA if they did, again you will not be hanging out with newbies. For now it appears you will be staying with us lowly denizens even with your glorious performances and glittering reputation and brand value.

Neither does a 25k stadium and a massively subsidized budget.

Nothing to see here.

While that is true no ODU fan is here throwing **** on Marshal here on the other hand this POS Marshal fan has to bring ODU into this.

Oh really? Why don't you just take a gander at what I highlighted in my post above from 12th? Or are you directing that response elsewhere?