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Not sure where to drop this flashback.

http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=209469118

(04-09-2018 10:53 AM)mac Wrote:  If Talley was a graduate transfer at Iowa State that means he graduated.

Did I use the word graduate anywhere?

(04-09-2018 11:00 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 10:53 AM)mac Wrote:  If Talley was a graduate transfer at Iowa State that means he graduated.

Did I use the word graduate anywhere?

Seriously. I think we all understand the point. There are just some who want to confuse it with their own literal stance.

So...

Ahmad Caver has the chance to become the first Jeff Jones recruit in 6 seasons (that wasn't a Blaine Taylor holdover) to play 4 seasons at ODU, graduate or not.

Now there's probably some flaw in that statement as well, but we all get the point.

(04-09-2018 10:36 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 09:39 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 09:11 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I think what somebody posted above about Caver, in year 6, being JJ's first player to play 4 years says all you need to know about the health of the program. Good mid majors win with cohesiveness and experience, and they get that by playing together for a lot longer than the Power Conference teams.

Just for accuracy sake, we have gone through 2 years were its possible that a freshman would suit up as a freshman and play 4 years.

2013- Baker/Taylor did so
2014- Talley graduated (and suspended) and left.
2015- Caver (possible), Carver (possible)

The rest of the recruits in these years were JUCO or transfers were it would not be possible.

JJ did not recruit Baker or Taylor
Talley did not finish is eligibility at ODU

One player in two full recruiting classes that was a four year player is not good for a mid major no matter how you slice it.

So, if you want to say that JJ did not recruit Baker/Taylor (he talked them into staying with committment), then you cannot use 6 years. You cant say "he didn't recruit that year" and then use that year as a knock for not having a graduate from that year.

(04-09-2018 11:06 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 10:36 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 09:39 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 09:11 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I think what somebody posted above about Caver, in year 6, being JJ's first player to play 4 years says all you need to know about the health of the program. Good mid majors win with cohesiveness and experience, and they get that by playing together for a lot longer than the Power Conference teams.

Just for accuracy sake, we have gone through 2 years were its possible that a freshman would suit up as a freshman and play 4 years.

2013- Baker/Taylor did so
2014- Talley graduated (and suspended) and left.
2015- Caver (possible), Carver (possible)

The rest of the recruits in these years were JUCO or transfers were it would not be possible.

JJ did not recruit Baker or Taylor
Talley did not finish is eligibility at ODU

One player in two full recruiting classes that was a four year player is not good for a mid major no matter how you slice it.

So, if you want to say that JJ did not recruit Baker/Taylor (he talked them into staying with committment), then you cannot use 6 years. You cant say "he didn't recruit that year" and then use that year as a knock for not having a graduate from that year.

Baker and Taylor were 2013 recruits. Since no one in the 2018 class will be a 4 year player, yes, it will be 6 years by the time Caver graduates in 2019.

(04-09-2018 09:07 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Sad thing is that all too many fans (probably not the ones on this board) would call for Wood's head if beer prices in the Big Blue Room went up or they cut the amount of time that the room is available, but couldn't care less if the team ever wins a conference title.

That's a pretty rotten statement to make. Many of our most loyal fans and donors go into the Big Blue Room or the VIP lounge. Most of those fans, if not all, began following the team when the team was enjoying a high rate of success whether it goes back to the 70's, 80's 90's etc. . To infer these fans only care to go to the game to socialize is wrong. It's also wrong to think just because someone chooses not to get caught up in the "hate Jeff Jones" crap that you seem to enjoy spewing, that all these Big Blue attendees are just happy to have a team and a place to go. I don't know you but I can guarantee you I know a lot of those Big Blue Room attendees and the ones I know are as passionate as any other part of our fan base we have. So, you have a right to complain about Jones or any coach we have but it's wrong to try to group some of our most loyal fans into a box because they are not jumping on this board to praise your posts.

(04-09-2018 11:10 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 11:06 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 10:36 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 09:39 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 09:11 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I think what somebody posted above about Caver, in year 6, being JJ's first player to play 4 years says all you need to know about the health of the program. Good mid majors win with cohesiveness and experience, and they get that by playing together for a lot longer than the Power Conference teams.

Just for accuracy sake, we have gone through 2 years were its possible that a freshman would suit up as a freshman and play 4 years.

2013- Baker/Taylor did so
2014- Talley graduated (and suspended) and left.
2015- Caver (possible), Carver (possible)

The rest of the recruits in these years were JUCO or transfers were it would not be possible.

JJ did not recruit Baker or Taylor
Talley did not finish is eligibility at ODU

One player in two full recruiting classes that was a four year player is not good for a mid major no matter how you slice it.

So, if you want to say that JJ did not recruit Baker/Taylor (he talked them into staying with committment), then you cannot use 6 years. You cant say "he didn't recruit that year" and then use that year as a knock for not having a graduate from that year.

Baker and Taylor were 2013 recruits. Since no one in the 2018 class will be a 4 year player, yes, it will be 6 years by the time Caver graduates in 2019.

They were 2013 recruits, FWIW.

I think most people get the point, so I'll leave it at that.

If we want to criticize Jones, fine. But, this type of stuff is just dumb. Lets ignore the first 2 recruits and add a year!

Ignoring the first year and first 2 recruits (for some reason), the only freshman that would have been able to graduate (oh, and play 4 years) by now is Talley. The only year where it would be possible to fit your window is 2014 recruits. Arledge, Freeman, and Douglas were transfers that year. 2015 recruits would graduate this year (Caver, Carver).

(04-09-2018 11:19 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If we want to criticize Jones, fine. But, this type of stuff is just dumb. Lets ignore the first 2 recruits and add a year!

Ignoring the first year and first 2 recruits (for some reason), the only freshman that would have been able to graduate (oh, and play 4 years) by now is Talley. The only year where it would be possible to fit your window is 2014 recruits. Arledge, Freeman, and Douglas were transfers that year. 2015 recruits would graduate this year (Caver, Carver).

And that is the point. This shows Jones inability to recruit, at least early on.

And then there is the issue of keeping the players that he does recruit, including transfers. We're not starting off very well with the class of 2017.

Carry on.

(04-09-2018 11:24 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 11:19 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If we want to criticize Jones, fine. But, this type of stuff is just dumb. Lets ignore the first 2 recruits and add a year!

Ignoring the first year and first 2 recruits (for some reason), the only freshman that would have been able to graduate (oh, and play 4 years) by now is Talley. The only year where it would be possible to fit your window is 2014 recruits. Arledge, Freeman, and Douglas were transfers that year. 2015 recruits would graduate this year (Caver, Carver).

And that is the point. This shows Jones inability to recruit, at least early on.

And then there is the issue of keeping the players that he does recruit, including transfers. We're not starting off very well with the class of 2017.

Carry on.

Well, that at least is fair criticism instead of the whole 1 graduate in 6 years concoction.

Pretty sure one or both of the Freshman bigs in the 2018 class will be 4 year players. Just because of need.

(04-09-2018 11:58 AM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  Pretty sure one or both of the Freshman bigs in the 2018 class will be 4 year players. Just because of need.

Hope so. Didn't work for Porter.

(04-09-2018 11:11 AM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 09:07 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Sad thing is that all too many fans (probably not the ones on this board) would call for Wood's head if beer prices in the Big Blue Room went up or they cut the amount of time that the room is available, but couldn't care less if the team ever wins a conference title.

That's a pretty rotten statement to make. Many of our most loyal fans and donors go into the Big Blue Room or the VIP lounge. Most of those fans, if not all, began following the team when the team was enjoying a high rate of success whether it goes back to the 70's, 80's 90's etc. . To infer these fans only care to go to the game to socialize is wrong. It's also wrong to think just because someone chooses not to get caught up in the "hate Jeff Jones" crap that you seem to enjoy spewing, that all these Big Blue attendees are just happy to have a team and a place to go. I don't know you but I can guarantee you I know a lot of those Big Blue Room attendees and the ones I know are as passionate as any other part of our fan base we have. So, you have a right to complain about Jones or any coach we have but it's wrong to try to group some of our most loyal fans into a box because they are not jumping on this board to praise your posts.

Wow. Where to begin with this one.

First, I said "too many", which is a far cry from your extrapolation to basically cover everyone in the BBR.

Second, I saw a ton of vocal outrage when they started charging for beer, not so much about 8 years since our last NCAA Tournament appearance.

(04-09-2018 11:19 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If we want to criticize Jones, fine. But, this type of stuff is just dumb. Lets ignore the first 2 recruits and add a year!

Ignoring the first year and first 2 recruits (for some reason), the only freshman that would have been able to graduate (oh, and play 4 years) by now is Talley. The only year where it would be possible to fit your window is 2014 recruits. Arledge, Freeman, and Douglas were transfers that year. 2015 recruits would graduate this year (Caver, Carver).

Would you deny that the best mid majors typically are senior laden teams that have kept a core group together for a long time?

Would you deny that JJ has been here going on 6 years and that we have yet to achieve the above?

(04-09-2018 11:34 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 11:24 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 11:19 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If we want to criticize Jones, fine. But, this type of stuff is just dumb. Lets ignore the first 2 recruits and add a year!

Ignoring the first year and first 2 recruits (for some reason), the only freshman that would have been able to graduate (oh, and play 4 years) by now is Talley. The only year where it would be possible to fit your window is 2014 recruits. Arledge, Freeman, and Douglas were transfers that year. 2015 recruits would graduate this year (Caver, Carver).

And that is the point. This shows Jones inability to recruit, at least early on.

And then there is the issue of keeping the players that he does recruit, including transfers. We're not starting off very well with the class of 2017.

Carry on.

Well, that at least is fair criticism instead of the whole 1 graduate in 6 years concoction.

Seems like we are getting lost in the weeds on this one. No need to nit pick the minor details of the generalized message which is that you can't have a formidable mid-major division 1 basketball program without building one. The best way to build one is to get players into the program to coach, nurture, and develop over a 4 or 5 year period. That is really the only advantage that mid-major programs have over the top programs that get the one and done players.

Some coaches are good at getting the right players to fit their style and that have the right attitude to commit to the school and the team. Blaine was one of those that was good at doing that.

Other mid-major coaches either by choice or because they can't seem to help it have a quicker and frequently unexpected turnover of their players. Jones thus far has proved to be one of those coaches during his time at ODU. Unless you are Western Kentucky and can suddenly recruit 4 and 5 star players to transfer or come in as freshmen, it is almost impossible to develop a strong mid-major program without doing it the way Blaine did it - i.e. recruiting for position, thinking long term so you have players to take over for departing seniors, nurturing the players, and developing the players. Blaine was also big on redshirting new freshmen when possible but didn't make it a necessity. Many of his best freshmen (Laughton, Hunter, Dahi, Lee, Finney, etc.) played as true freshmen and were with the program throughout their entire college career.

I guess I wasn't some fan just freaking out...Giles, you need to learn pretty quickly who has the information worth listening to.

Justanodufan is correct. For those of you thinking that Jones is going to be fired...you are wasting your breath. If anything, he is going to get a contract extension. Do I want him gone??? Absolutely. Unfortunately, that is not going to happen. Jeff isn't going anywhere unless the Mitchum family wants him gone.

(04-09-2018 12:18 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 11:19 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If we want to criticize Jones, fine. But, this type of stuff is just dumb. Lets ignore the first 2 recruits and add a year!

Ignoring the first year and first 2 recruits (for some reason), the only freshman that would have been able to graduate (oh, and play 4 years) by now is Talley. The only year where it would be possible to fit your window is 2014 recruits. Arledge, Freeman, and Douglas were transfers that year. 2015 recruits would graduate this year (Caver, Carver).

Would you deny that the best mid majors typically are senior laden teams that have kept a core group together for a long time?

Would you deny that JJ has been here going on 6 years and that we have yet to achieve the above?

I haven't analzyed this to be able to tell. In the last 2 years, the game has completely changed and its seems almost impossible to have a team full of good 4 year players at the mid major level.

(04-09-2018 12:15 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 11:11 AM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 09:07 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Sad thing is that all too many fans (probably not the ones on this board) would call for Wood's head if beer prices in the Big Blue Room went up or they cut the amount of time that the room is available, but couldn't care less if the team ever wins a conference title.

That's a pretty rotten statement to make. Many of our most loyal fans and donors go into the Big Blue Room or the VIP lounge. Most of those fans, if not all, began following the team when the team was enjoying a high rate of success whether it goes back to the 70's, 80's 90's etc. . To infer these fans only care to go to the game to socialize is wrong. It's also wrong to think just because someone chooses not to get caught up in the "hate Jeff Jones" crap that you seem to enjoy spewing, that all these Big Blue attendees are just happy to have a team and a place to go. I don't know you but I can guarantee you I know a lot of those Big Blue Room attendees and the ones I know are as passionate as any other part of our fan base we have. So, you have a right to complain about Jones or any coach we have but it's wrong to try to group some of our most loyal fans into a box because they are not jumping on this board to praise your posts.

Wow. Where to begin with this one.

First, I said "too many", which is a far cry from your extrapolation to basically cover everyone in the BBR.

Second, I saw a ton of vocal outrage when they started charging for beer, not so much about 8 years since our last NCAA Tournament appearance.

Whatever you choose to believe! I can't imagine much more outrage than I have seen recently. Every thread reverts to Jeff Jones and our lack of tournament showings. i can't comment on the " total outrage over beer prices" because I don't remember that discussion. Anyway, it's still wrong when you attempt to lump a bunch odu fans into a box you can complain about. But that's what you do, so have at it. I shouldn't have complained about your post. You say whatever you want anyway. My apologies.

(04-09-2018 10:36 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 09:39 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 09:11 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I think what somebody posted above about Caver, in year 6, being JJ's first player to play 4 years says all you need to know about the health of the program. Good mid majors win with cohesiveness and experience, and they get that by playing together for a lot longer than the Power Conference teams.

Just for accuracy sake, we have gone through 2 years were its possible that a freshman would suit up as a freshman and play 4 years.

2013- Baker/Taylor did so
2014- Talley graduated (and suspended) and left.
2015- Caver (possible), Carver (possible)

The rest of the recruits in these years were JUCO or transfers were it would not be possible.

JJ did not recruit Baker or Taylor
Talley did not finish is eligibility at ODU

One player in two full recruiting classes that was a four year player is not good for a mid major no matter how you slice it.

Okay so take the 2013 class out. But if you take it out here stop saying he has five recruiting classes. Because if you don’t count the 2013-14 class he has four (with 18-19 being year 5).

2014 recruiting class:
Talley- graduated (suspended from team)
Douglas- did not graduate (suspended from team)
Stith- graduated........ twice
Arledge- played as a grad transfer

2015 recuiting class
Carver- Entering year 4
Caver- Entering year 4
Porter- graduated (in year 4 of college)
Stith- graduated (in year 4 of college)

2016 recruiting class:
Green- Entering year 3
Haynes- expected to graduate
Kah- expected to graduate
Pinckney- expected to graduate

2017 recruiting class:
Godwin-Entering year 2
Hueitt- transferring
Kithcart- Entering year 3 (of college), year 2 (at ODU)
McClinton- grad transfer
Pilavios- Entering year 2


You may not like it, but 13 scholarships can only go so far. In his first class (since you don’t count the 2013 class), he got the following:

Immediate help on the inside (Arledge)
A big with 3 years left (which equates to 4 years in the program): (Stith)
A wing : (Talley)
A hybrid four : (douglas)

Two of the four had the potential to be in the program for four years.