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(04-09-2018 12:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:18 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 11:19 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If we want to criticize Jones, fine. But, this type of stuff is just dumb. Lets ignore the first 2 recruits and add a year!

Ignoring the first year and first 2 recruits (for some reason), the only freshman that would have been able to graduate (oh, and play 4 years) by now is Talley. The only year where it would be possible to fit your window is 2014 recruits. Arledge, Freeman, and Douglas were transfers that year. 2015 recruits would graduate this year (Caver, Carver).

Would you deny that the best mid majors typically are senior laden teams that have kept a core group together for a long time?

Would you deny that JJ has been here going on 6 years and that we have yet to achieve the above?

I haven't analzyed this to be able to tell. In the last 2 years, the game has completely changed and its seems almost impossible to have a team full of good 4 year players at the mid major level.

That is just BS. The good ones do it.

(04-09-2018 12:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:18 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 11:19 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If we want to criticize Jones, fine. But, this type of stuff is just dumb. Lets ignore the first 2 recruits and add a year!

Ignoring the first year and first 2 recruits (for some reason), the only freshman that would have been able to graduate (oh, and play 4 years) by now is Talley. The only year where it would be possible to fit your window is 2014 recruits. Arledge, Freeman, and Douglas were transfers that year. 2015 recruits would graduate this year (Caver, Carver).

Would you deny that the best mid majors typically are senior laden teams that have kept a core group together for a long time?

Would you deny that JJ has been here going on 6 years and that we have yet to achieve the above?

I haven't analzyed this to be able to tell. In the last 2 years, the game has completely changed and its seems almost impossible to have a team full of good 4 year players at the mid major level.

That is just BS. The good ones do it.

But it's getting harder now. Everyone is dealing with transfers; the good teams are the ones that can get better players coming in than out. No judgement; that's just the way the game is played these days.

(04-09-2018 12:40 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 10:36 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 09:39 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 09:11 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I think what somebody posted above about Caver, in year 6, being JJ's first player to play 4 years says all you need to know about the health of the program. Good mid majors win with cohesiveness and experience, and they get that by playing together for a lot longer than the Power Conference teams.

Just for accuracy sake, we have gone through 2 years were its possible that a freshman would suit up as a freshman and play 4 years.

2013- Baker/Taylor did so
2014- Talley graduated (and suspended) and left.
2015- Caver (possible), Carver (possible)

The rest of the recruits in these years were JUCO or transfers were it would not be possible.

JJ did not recruit Baker or Taylor
Talley did not finish is eligibility at ODU

One player in two full recruiting classes that was a four year player is not good for a mid major no matter how you slice it.

Okay so take the 2013 class out. But if you take it out here stop saying he has five recruiting classes. Because if you don’t count the 2013-14 class he has four (with 18-19 being year 5).

2014 recruiting class:
Talley- graduated (suspended from team)
Douglas- did not graduate (suspended from team)
Stith- graduated........ twice
Arledge- played as a grad transfer

2015 recuiting class
Carver- Entering year 4
Caver- Entering year 4
Porter- graduated (in year 4 of college)
Stith- graduated (in year 4 of college)

2016 recruiting class:
Green- Entering year 3
Haynes- expected to graduate
Kah- expected to graduate
Pinckney- expected to graduate

2017 recruiting class:
Godwin-Entering year 2
Hueitt- transferring
Kithcart- Entering year 3 (of college), year 2 (at ODU)
McClinton- grad transfer
Pilavios- Entering year 2


You may not like it, but 13 scholarships can only go so far. In his first class (since you don’t count the 2013 class), he got the following:

Immediate help on the inside (Arledge)
A big with 3 years left (which equates to 4 years in the program): (Stith)
A wing : (Talley)
A hybrid four : (douglas)

Two of the four had the potential to be in the program for four years.

Oh, I count the 2013 class. It was a big zero. Keeping the guys BT had already signed who didn't have a better option, if any other D1 option, does not count as recruiting for me.

(04-09-2018 12:55 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:18 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 11:19 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If we want to criticize Jones, fine. But, this type of stuff is just dumb. Lets ignore the first 2 recruits and add a year!

Ignoring the first year and first 2 recruits (for some reason), the only freshman that would have been able to graduate (oh, and play 4 years) by now is Talley. The only year where it would be possible to fit your window is 2014 recruits. Arledge, Freeman, and Douglas were transfers that year. 2015 recruits would graduate this year (Caver, Carver).

Would you deny that the best mid majors typically are senior laden teams that have kept a core group together for a long time?

Would you deny that JJ has been here going on 6 years and that we have yet to achieve the above?

I haven't analzyed this to be able to tell. In the last 2 years, the game has completely changed and its seems almost impossible to have a team full of good 4 year players at the mid major level.

That is just BS. The good ones do it.

But it's getting harder now. Everyone is dealing with transfers; the good teams are the ones that can get better players coming in than out. No judgement; that's just the way the game is played these days.

That is just not true at the top mid majors. They building a culture, recruiting players that fit that culture, winning a bunch of games, winning games in the tournament, and because of the program and culture that they have built, and because they identify kids who will thrive in that culture, they are not losing players the second they don't get enough minutes or think they can do better elsewhere.

What is JJ's culture? What is it that kids are buying into? What makes them proud of being an ODU basketball player? What type of tradition are the older players handing down to the younger players? You can't just run a basketball clinic and win anymore. You need a brand, you need a culture, you need something for your players to buy into that makes them feel like they are part of something special.

(04-09-2018 12:55 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:18 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 11:19 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  If we want to criticize Jones, fine. But, this type of stuff is just dumb. Lets ignore the first 2 recruits and add a year!

Ignoring the first year and first 2 recruits (for some reason), the only freshman that would have been able to graduate (oh, and play 4 years) by now is Talley. The only year where it would be possible to fit your window is 2014 recruits. Arledge, Freeman, and Douglas were transfers that year. 2015 recruits would graduate this year (Caver, Carver).

Would you deny that the best mid majors typically are senior laden teams that have kept a core group together for a long time?

Would you deny that JJ has been here going on 6 years and that we have yet to achieve the above?

I haven't analzyed this to be able to tell. In the last 2 years, the game has completely changed and its seems almost impossible to have a team full of good 4 year players at the mid major level.

That is just BS. The good ones do it.

But it's getting harder now. Everyone is dealing with transfers; the good teams are the ones that can get better players coming in than out. No judgement; that's just the way the game is played these days.

...and this is something Jeff Jones has failed to do.

No one said it was easy. That's why the job pays 6 figures. It's one of those jobs where you are judged by results, not effort.

(04-09-2018 01:04 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:55 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:18 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Would you deny that the best mid majors typically are senior laden teams that have kept a core group together for a long time?

Would you deny that JJ has been here going on 6 years and that we have yet to achieve the above?

I haven't analzyed this to be able to tell. In the last 2 years, the game has completely changed and its seems almost impossible to have a team full of good 4 year players at the mid major level.

That is just BS. The good ones do it.

But it's getting harder now. Everyone is dealing with transfers; the good teams are the ones that can get better players coming in than out. No judgement; that's just the way the game is played these days.

That is just not true at the top mid majors. They building a culture, recruiting players that fit that culture, winning a bunch of games, winning games in the tournament, and because of the program and culture that they have built, and because they identify kids who will thrive in that culture, they are not losing players the second they don't get enough minutes or think they can do better elsewhere.

What is JJ's culture? What is it that kids are buying into? What makes them proud of being an ODU basketball player? What type of tradition are the older players handing down to the younger players? You can't just run a basketball clinic and win anymore. You need a brand, you need a culture, you need something for your players to buy into that makes them feel like they are part of something special.

Which mid majors are you referring to that keep all there players and win consistently?

(04-09-2018 01:26 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:55 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:18 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Would you deny that the best mid majors typically are senior laden teams that have kept a core group together for a long time?

Would you deny that JJ has been here going on 6 years and that we have yet to achieve the above?

I haven't analzyed this to be able to tell. In the last 2 years, the game has completely changed and its seems almost impossible to have a team full of good 4 year players at the mid major level.

That is just BS. The good ones do it.

But it's getting harder now. Everyone is dealing with transfers; the good teams are the ones that can get better players coming in than out. No judgement; that's just the way the game is played these days.

...and this is something Jeff Jones has failed to do.

No one said it was easy. That's why the job pays 6 figures. It's one of those jobs where you are judged by results, not effort.

I wouldn't say this is true. We've gotten both Stiths, Porter, Haynes, Freeman, etc. in and have lost Talley, Porter, Mosely...? Im trying to think of any others of signficance that we have lost that come close to the ones that have been brought in.

(04-09-2018 01:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 01:26 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:55 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I haven't analzyed this to be able to tell. In the last 2 years, the game has completely changed and its seems almost impossible to have a team full of good 4 year players at the mid major level.

That is just BS. The good ones do it.

But it's getting harder now. Everyone is dealing with transfers; the good teams are the ones that can get better players coming in than out. No judgement; that's just the way the game is played these days.

...and this is something Jeff Jones has failed to do.

No one said it was easy. That's why the job pays 6 figures. It's one of those jobs where you are judged by results, not effort.

I wouldn't say this is true. We've gotten both Stiths, Porter, Haynes, Freeman, etc. in and have lost Talley, Porter, Mosely...? Im trying to think of any others of signficance that we have lost that come close to the ones that have been brought in.

Did Dimitri Batten play for JJ at all?

(04-09-2018 01:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 01:26 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:55 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I haven't analzyed this to be able to tell. In the last 2 years, the game has completely changed and its seems almost impossible to have a team full of good 4 year players at the mid major level.

That is just BS. The good ones do it.

But it's getting harder now. Everyone is dealing with transfers; the good teams are the ones that can get better players coming in than out. No judgement; that's just the way the game is played these days.

...and this is something Jeff Jones has failed to do.

No one said it was easy. That's why the job pays 6 figures. It's one of those jobs where you are judged by results, not effort.

I wouldn't say this is true. We've gotten both Stiths, Porter, Haynes, Freeman, etc. in and have lost Talley, Porter, Mosely...? Im trying to think of any others of signficance that we have lost that come close to the ones that have been brought in.

Point taken. The players bought in (sans Freeman and maybe Porter) aren't world-beaters by any stretch of the imagination, it's just our freshman recruiting has been so awful that anyone replacing them might look good.

The main point is that JJ can't recruit and keep players consistent enough to get us back to the NCAAs. Heading into JJ's 6th season, we may actually get a 4 year player in Caver (God forbid he leaves).

MTSU has had a few players transfer out over the years. Can anyone name them without Google? See the difference? Players like Upshaw and Potts stayed, plus they got superior talent transferring in, not out.

So it's not just the "dealing with transfers", which everyone does. JJ has a record at ODU of recruiting failures (both transfers as well as freshmen). So far, Caver is the only freshman recruit that has proven to be a hit.

Now many leave for different reasons, but having the number come in and out that we have without having a 4 year player is beyond ridiculous. Just off the top of my head, during JJ's tenure.

Ambrose Mosely (BT Recruit - Dismissed, get an NCAA bid with UNCW as a starter.)
Keenan Palmore (BT Recruit - Transfer Out)
Austin Colbert (4* Transfer in, Transfer Out to Hampton. Never played.)
Javonte Douglas (Transfer In, Dismissed)
Zoran Talley (JJ's First Freshman Recruit, Dismissed, goes to Big 10)
Peyten Pervier (Transfer In, Dismissed)
Travis Fields (Transfer Out, gets and NCAA Bid with Radford)
Trey Porter (Transfer In, Transfer Out, likely to Big 10)
Michael Hueitt, Jr. (Transfer Out)

There are probably more, but you can see the problem (Did Kah graduate, or just disappear? Who knows?). Every team loses players for lack of playing time, etc. But there are a lot of dismissals, so either JJ is too strict (as some have suggested, though I'm not buying it), or JJ and staff are poor judges of character. I don't know the deal with Michael Hueitt (some has suggested lack of work ethic), but I have a hard time fathoming how there is no place on JJ's squad for a 47% 3 point shooter (especially since we are averaging around 50 ppg in our CUSA Tournament losses.

There are a lot of misses in JJ's recruiting, and very few hits so far, and those misses are magnified every time we lose a Porter or a Hueitt (something MTSU doesn't seem to do).

That needs to change.

Edit: Batten. Another one.

(04-09-2018 02:00 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 01:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 01:26 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:55 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  That is just BS. The good ones do it.

But it's getting harder now. Everyone is dealing with transfers; the good teams are the ones that can get better players coming in than out. No judgement; that's just the way the game is played these days.

...and this is something Jeff Jones has failed to do.

No one said it was easy. That's why the job pays 6 figures. It's one of those jobs where you are judged by results, not effort.

I wouldn't say this is true. We've gotten both Stiths, Porter, Haynes, Freeman, etc. in and have lost Talley, Porter, Mosely...? Im trying to think of any others of signficance that we have lost that come close to the ones that have been brought in.

Point taken. The players bought in (sans Freeman and maybe Porter) aren't world-beaters by any stretch of the imagination, it's just our freshman recruiting has been so awful that anyone replacing them might look good.

The main point is that JJ can't recruit and keep players consistent enough to get us back to the NCAAs. Heading into JJ's 6th season, we may actually get a 4 year player in Caver (God forbid he leaves).

MTSU has had a few players transfer out over the years. Can anyone name them without Google? See the difference? Players like Upshaw and Potts stayed, plus they got superior talent transferring in, not out.

So it's not just the "dealing with transfers", which everyone does. JJ has a record at ODU of recruiting failures (both transfers as well as freshmen). So far, Caver is the only freshman recruit that has proven to be a hit.

Now many leave for different reasons, but having the number come in and out that we have without having a 4 year player is beyond ridiculous. Just off the top of my head, during JJ's tenure.

Ambrose Mosely (BT Recruit - Dismissed, get an NCAA bid with UNCW as a starter.)
Keenan Palmore (BT Recruit - Transfer Out)
Austin Colbert (4* Transfer in, Transfer Out to Hampton. Never played.)
Javonte Douglas (Transfer In, Dismissed)
Zoran Talley (JJ's First Freshman Recruit, Dismissed, goes to Big 10)
Peyten Pervier (Transfer In, Dismissed)
Travis Fields (Transfer Out, gets and NCAA Bid with Radford)
Trey Porter (Transfer In, Transfer Out, likely to Big 10)
Michael Hueitt, Jr. (Transfer Out)

There are probably more, but you can see the problem (Did Kah graduate, or just disappear? Who knows?). Every team loses players for lack of playing time, etc. But there are a lot of dismissals, so either JJ is too strict (as some have suggested, though I'm not buying it), or JJ and staff are poor judges of character. I don't know the deal with Michael Hueitt (some has suggested lack of work ethic), but I have a hard time fathoming how there is no place on JJ's squad for a 47% 3 point shooter (especially since we are averaging around 50 ppg in our CUSA Tournament losses.

There are a lot of misses in JJ's recruiting, and very few hits so far, and those misses are magnified every time we lose a Porter or a Hueitt (something MTSU doesn't seem to do).

That needs to change.

Edit: Batten. Another one.

Again, I have no problem with the recruiting criticism. I think it started out bad and has gotten much better in the last 3 years. There is only 1 possible guy that could have played 4 years as a freshman and graduated, that doesn't seem like a great point to harp on.

Jones clearly went to the transfer/JUCO well from the start to try to win in a quick timeframe (which worked, but not to the level of an NCAA tourney team, but close). Some of them worked out (Freeman, Arledge, Haynes, Porter, Stith(2)), some did not (Pervier, Kah, Douglas, Colbert). Batten graduated and left; (and Palmore left) not unexpected given a change in coaches. Mosely/Talley were dismissed (only Talley was JJs recruit). Fields was a walk on that left, no real issue there.

The fact of the matter is there is going to be significant turnover nowadays. It is almost impossible to avoid it under the current rules. There aren't any teams that can survive the way Blaine developed players over a number of years. Look at schools like Robert Morris that bring on nowbodies, turn them into starts, and watch them transfer as soon as the player can. There are probably some teams that can consistently keep players, but I don't think that number is very high. The turnover is certainly not ideal, but Jones is going to be judged on how he reacts to the current atmosphere in college baskets. If he can replace Porter, the team will be really good; if he doesn't, then he may be on the hotseat. Him and the staff certainly understand the issues.

I am not sure I would concede that Porter worked out. We basically got one good year out of him.

(04-09-2018 03:26 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I am not sure I would concede that Porter worked out. We basically got one good year out of him.

Did Nick King work out for MTSU?

(04-09-2018 03:22 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 02:00 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 01:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 01:26 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:55 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  But it's getting harder now. Everyone is dealing with transfers; the good teams are the ones that can get better players coming in than out. No judgement; that's just the way the game is played these days.

...and this is something Jeff Jones has failed to do.

No one said it was easy. That's why the job pays 6 figures. It's one of those jobs where you are judged by results, not effort.

I wouldn't say this is true. We've gotten both Stiths, Porter, Haynes, Freeman, etc. in and have lost Talley, Porter, Mosely...? Im trying to think of any others of signficance that we have lost that come close to the ones that have been brought in.

Point taken. The players bought in (sans Freeman and maybe Porter) aren't world-beaters by any stretch of the imagination, it's just our freshman recruiting has been so awful that anyone replacing them might look good.

The main point is that JJ can't recruit and keep players consistent enough to get us back to the NCAAs. Heading into JJ's 6th season, we may actually get a 4 year player in Caver (God forbid he leaves).

MTSU has had a few players transfer out over the years. Can anyone name them without Google? See the difference? Players like Upshaw and Potts stayed, plus they got superior talent transferring in, not out.

So it's not just the "dealing with transfers", which everyone does. JJ has a record at ODU of recruiting failures (both transfers as well as freshmen). So far, Caver is the only freshman recruit that has proven to be a hit.

Now many leave for different reasons, but having the number come in and out that we have without having a 4 year player is beyond ridiculous. Just off the top of my head, during JJ's tenure.

Ambrose Mosely (BT Recruit - Dismissed, get an NCAA bid with UNCW as a starter.)
Keenan Palmore (BT Recruit - Transfer Out)
Austin Colbert (4* Transfer in, Transfer Out to Hampton. Never played.)
Javonte Douglas (Transfer In, Dismissed)
Zoran Talley (JJ's First Freshman Recruit, Dismissed, goes to Big 10)
Peyten Pervier (Transfer In, Dismissed)
Travis Fields (Transfer Out, gets and NCAA Bid with Radford)
Trey Porter (Transfer In, Transfer Out, likely to Big 10)
Michael Hueitt, Jr. (Transfer Out)

There are probably more, but you can see the problem (Did Kah graduate, or just disappear? Who knows?). Every team loses players for lack of playing time, etc. But there are a lot of dismissals, so either JJ is too strict (as some have suggested, though I'm not buying it), or JJ and staff are poor judges of character. I don't know the deal with Michael Hueitt (some has suggested lack of work ethic), but I have a hard time fathoming how there is no place on JJ's squad for a 47% 3 point shooter (especially since we are averaging around 50 ppg in our CUSA Tournament losses.

There are a lot of misses in JJ's recruiting, and very few hits so far, and those misses are magnified every time we lose a Porter or a Hueitt (something MTSU doesn't seem to do).

That needs to change.

Edit: Batten. Another one.

Again, I have no problem with the recruiting criticism. I think it started out bad and has gotten much better in the last 3 years. There is only 1 possible guy that could have played 4 years as a freshman and graduated, that doesn't seem like a great point to harp on.

Jones clearly went to the transfer/JUCO well from the start to try to win in a quick timeframe (which worked, but not to the level of an NCAA tourney team, but close). Some of them worked out (Freeman, Arledge, Haynes, Porter, Stith(2)), some did not (Pervier, Kah, Douglas, Colbert). Batten graduated and left; (and Palmore left) not unexpected given a change in coaches. Mosely/Talley were dismissed (only Talley was JJs recruit). Fields was a walk on that left, no real issue there.

The fact of the matter is there is going to be significant turnover nowadays. It is almost impossible to avoid it under the current rules. There aren't any teams that can survive the way Blaine developed players over a number of years. Look at schools like Robert Morris that bring on nowbodies, turn them into starts, and watch them transfer as soon as the player can. There are probably some teams that can consistently keep players, but I don't think that number is very high. The turnover is certainly not ideal, but Jones is going to be judged on how he reacts to the current atmosphere in college baskets. If he can replace Porter, the team will be really good; if he doesn't, then he may be on the hotseat. Him and the staff certainly understand the issues.

He really needs to replace both Porter and Stith up front. Aaron Carver is a nice kid and all, but if he's starting, we're sunk.

(04-09-2018 03:39 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 03:22 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 02:00 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 01:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 01:26 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  ...and this is something Jeff Jones has failed to do.

No one said it was easy. That's why the job pays 6 figures. It's one of those jobs where you are judged by results, not effort.

I wouldn't say this is true. We've gotten both Stiths, Porter, Haynes, Freeman, etc. in and have lost Talley, Porter, Mosely...? Im trying to think of any others of signficance that we have lost that come close to the ones that have been brought in.

Point taken. The players bought in (sans Freeman and maybe Porter) aren't world-beaters by any stretch of the imagination, it's just our freshman recruiting has been so awful that anyone replacing them might look good.

The main point is that JJ can't recruit and keep players consistent enough to get us back to the NCAAs. Heading into JJ's 6th season, we may actually get a 4 year player in Caver (God forbid he leaves).

MTSU has had a few players transfer out over the years. Can anyone name them without Google? See the difference? Players like Upshaw and Potts stayed, plus they got superior talent transferring in, not out.

So it's not just the "dealing with transfers", which everyone does. JJ has a record at ODU of recruiting failures (both transfers as well as freshmen). So far, Caver is the only freshman recruit that has proven to be a hit.

Now many leave for different reasons, but having the number come in and out that we have without having a 4 year player is beyond ridiculous. Just off the top of my head, during JJ's tenure.

Ambrose Mosely (BT Recruit - Dismissed, get an NCAA bid with UNCW as a starter.)
Keenan Palmore (BT Recruit - Transfer Out)
Austin Colbert (4* Transfer in, Transfer Out to Hampton. Never played.)
Javonte Douglas (Transfer In, Dismissed)
Zoran Talley (JJ's First Freshman Recruit, Dismissed, goes to Big 10)
Peyten Pervier (Transfer In, Dismissed)
Travis Fields (Transfer Out, gets and NCAA Bid with Radford)
Trey Porter (Transfer In, Transfer Out, likely to Big 10)
Michael Hueitt, Jr. (Transfer Out)

There are probably more, but you can see the problem (Did Kah graduate, or just disappear? Who knows?). Every team loses players for lack of playing time, etc. But there are a lot of dismissals, so either JJ is too strict (as some have suggested, though I'm not buying it), or JJ and staff are poor judges of character. I don't know the deal with Michael Hueitt (some has suggested lack of work ethic), but I have a hard time fathoming how there is no place on JJ's squad for a 47% 3 point shooter (especially since we are averaging around 50 ppg in our CUSA Tournament losses.

There are a lot of misses in JJ's recruiting, and very few hits so far, and those misses are magnified every time we lose a Porter or a Hueitt (something MTSU doesn't seem to do).

That needs to change.

Edit: Batten. Another one.

Again, I have no problem with the recruiting criticism. I think it started out bad and has gotten much better in the last 3 years. There is only 1 possible guy that could have played 4 years as a freshman and graduated, that doesn't seem like a great point to harp on.

Jones clearly went to the transfer/JUCO well from the start to try to win in a quick timeframe (which worked, but not to the level of an NCAA tourney team, but close). Some of them worked out (Freeman, Arledge, Haynes, Porter, Stith(2)), some did not (Pervier, Kah, Douglas, Colbert). Batten graduated and left; (and Palmore left) not unexpected given a change in coaches. Mosely/Talley were dismissed (only Talley was JJs recruit). Fields was a walk on that left, no real issue there.

The fact of the matter is there is going to be significant turnover nowadays. It is almost impossible to avoid it under the current rules. There aren't any teams that can survive the way Blaine developed players over a number of years. Look at schools like Robert Morris that bring on nowbodies, turn them into starts, and watch them transfer as soon as the player can. There are probably some teams that can consistently keep players, but I don't think that number is very high. The turnover is certainly not ideal, but Jones is going to be judged on how he reacts to the current atmosphere in college baskets. If he can replace Porter, the team will be really good; if he doesn't, then he may be on the hotseat. Him and the staff certainly understand the issues.

He really needs to replace both Porter and Stith up front. Aaron Carver is a nice kid and all, but if he's starting, we're sunk.

Ideally, they would replace both. I do think BJ could give a lot of minutes at the "4" next year if need be.

If BJ wants a shot at the NBA, and he has the build and athleticism to possibly get a shot, he better not have to play the 4 other than a few minutes here and there.

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(04-09-2018 04:42 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  If BJ wants a shot at the NBA, and he has the build and athleticism to possibly get a shot, he better not have to play the 4 other than a few minutes here and there.

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BJ isn't playing in the NBA, but the ability to play as a 4 would only help his ability. Many people still assume the "4" is a low post player.

(04-09-2018 12:55 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:40 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 10:36 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 09:39 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 09:11 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I think what somebody posted above about Caver, in year 6, being JJ's first player to play 4 years says all you need to know about the health of the program. Good mid majors win with cohesiveness and experience, and they get that by playing together for a lot longer than the Power Conference teams.

Just for accuracy sake, we have gone through 2 years were its possible that a freshman would suit up as a freshman and play 4 years.

2013- Baker/Taylor did so
2014- Talley graduated (and suspended) and left.
2015- Caver (possible), Carver (possible)

The rest of the recruits in these years were JUCO or transfers were it would not be possible.

JJ did not recruit Baker or Taylor
Talley did not finish is eligibility at ODU

One player in two full recruiting classes that was a four year player is not good for a mid major no matter how you slice it.

Okay so take the 2013 class out. But if you take it out here stop saying he has five recruiting classes. Because if you don’t count the 2013-14 class he has four (with 18-19 being year 5).

2014 recruiting class:
Talley- graduated (suspended from team)
Douglas- did not graduate (suspended from team)
Stith- graduated........ twice
Arledge- played as a grad transfer

2015 recuiting class
Carver- Entering year 4
Caver- Entering year 4
Porter- graduated (in year 4 of college)
Stith- graduated (in year 4 of college)

2016 recruiting class:
Green- Entering year 3
Haynes- expected to graduate
Kah- expected to graduate
Pinckney- expected to graduate

2017 recruiting class:
Godwin-Entering year 2
Hueitt- transferring
Kithcart- Entering year 3 (of college), year 2 (at ODU)
McClinton- grad transfer
Pilavios- Entering year 2


You may not like it, but 13 scholarships can only go so far. In his first class (since you don’t count the 2013 class), he got the following:

Immediate help on the inside (Arledge)
A big with 3 years left (which equates to 4 years in the program): (Stith)
A wing : (Talley)
A hybrid four : (douglas)

Two of the four had the potential to be in the program for four years.

Oh, I count the 2013 class. It was a big zero. Keeping the guys BT had already signed who didn't have a better option, if any other D1 option, does not count as recruiting for me.

So Taylor and Baker didn’t count. Ok. So let’s approach with your view. Whatever open scholarships there were jones should have filled so that he would have a recruiting class. He was hired in April. What or who do you think would be available at that time? None of those 4 year players you’re talking about.

Basically you’re arguing to argue. And your arguments don’t make sense

(04-09-2018 04:51 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 04:42 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  If BJ wants a shot at the NBA, and he has the build and athleticism to possibly get a shot, he better not have to play the 4 other than a few minutes here and there.

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BJ isn't playing in the NBA, but the ability to play as a 4 would only help his ability. Many people still assume the "4" is a low post player.

Regardless of what you or others assume the "4" is .....

Of course it would help BJ's ability to play in the NBA if he could adequately play the 4 at ODU. Sure, he could probably guard a 4 that roamed outside to shoot the 3 point shot. But, when a guy like say ... Justin Johnson (WKU) decided that he wanted to score with BJ covering him he would simply post him up, signal for the entry pass, get the entry pass, and put in the close in shot for 2 and there wouldn't be a whole lot that BJ could do about it due to the size mismatch unless one or more of his teammates rushed in to assist him with the coverage. ODU had a tough enough time stopping that from happening with his bigger brother guarding Justin.

Bottom line ... it is one thing to call yourself a "4" and say, "hey, look at me everybody, I can shoot the 3". It is another thing when you have to run down to the defensive end and be the mismatch inside that the other team is going to exploit. The good teams cover that base by having big guys that can do both. If you can only get a guy that can do one of the two, you had better cover the inside or else you are going to get abused there by teams that have decent sized 4 players like WKU did, find yourself sitting on the bench in foul trouble trying to stop the onslaught, or both.

If Jones was going to be putting out a lineup that offensively was about shooting a lot of 3 pointers and driving to the hoop I could maybe (maybe) agree with your point here. One would have to be pretty foolish to actually believe that is likely to happen, especially when he doesn't appear to have done very much to hold onto his best young 3 point shooter. Besides that, BJ isn't that great at putting the ball on the floor and driving either. He's at his best at this point as a catch and shoot player. Hopefully he works on the dribbling aspect of his game this off season.

(04-08-2018 10:35 PM)Maryland Monarch Wrote:  

(04-08-2018 08:30 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  The big donors will be calling the shots. Should ask the Mitchum family if they support Jones. If they do, expect him to stay - and vice versa. Big checks hold serve.

I agree with you in principle, but no amount of money will protect him from an empty arena. If the stands are empty next year, he’s gone. Nobody can survive a Kamikaze dive in attendance.

I believe next years attendance will be a referendum on Jones and his “vision” for the program. In my opinion, more of the same = less of the fans will remain.

Completely agree - an empty Ted would create a groundswell he wouldn’t survive. I’m an eternal optimist and expect him to land the bigs we need. Time will tell.

Johnson hurt ODU from the outside much worse than inside because he had a slow big guy trying to guard him on the perimeter. Same with Nick King. But, when the put the smaller, more athletic Carver (prolly 6-5 220) in; both had much more difficulties scoring. Besides, there are many very good post up players in college basketball and even less of them play "power forward." The ones that can do both are great players that likely aren't playing too many games vs. CUSA schools.

You don't have to shoot a bunch of 3s to play BJ (or others) at the 4. It spreads out the court for other things as well. And a player that only shoots 3 wasn't one of the best players on the team as a true freshman.