I'm not sold on the Horizon reaching out into the Southwest. The WAC is a few key adds away from stablizing and having a core to build upon. They need to add in two key areas: California and Texas. UCSD and Azusa Pacific shore up the California presence and I count 5 schools in the Lone Star Confenence that they could bring in that could form the basis of a FCS football league if that's something the WAC would be interested in.

The Horizon has solid options close to home in IUPUI, IPFW, SIU-E and Robert Morris to choose from. No need to experiment with an expansion why outside of the footprint.

Hurd and Benson did mentioned that several D2 schools wanted to move up that they were talking to. So, that means several California schools, Dixie State, the Washington pair, Colorado schools and a bunch of Texas schools from the Southland to Lonestar. Lamar, Sam Houston State and SFA wanted FBS, and I think all three may have reached out to the WAC in the past. WAC turned down Lamar. If they accepted Lamar to move up back then? Lamar would be another program that is FBS Independent today. They may have an affiliate longer in Sun Belt Conference since they are more tolerable for the SBC schools.

(06-07-2017 04:12 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  NMSU would be thrilled if Chicago State were gone. UCSD is not going to get their way and GCU has to get an invite, if they even want one. Again, do you really think the Great Lakes schools are going to jump at the chance to take their VB teams to Phoenix and El Paso? We'll see but all the discussion is reminiscent of the MVC expansion talk. And nothing came of it. Bus leagues like being bus leagues. Expect the HL to remain a bus league.

I agree about the Horizon League not wanting to add outposts in Phoenix and/or Las Cruces. But I think any school in the WAC right now would take an invite to any other Division I conference--Horizon League, Big Sky, Atlantic Sun--they're taking it, to avoid being stuck as independents if the WAC collapses. It's a high-stakes game of hot potato.

Don't forget the Summit League! (UMKC)

It would be ugly, but there's also another option to save the WAC: splitting the Southland. Even if the WAC got down to three members, the Southland could slim down from 13 to 8 members, which would be a significant improvement in NCAA tournament distributions for the Southland schools. The only downside is those three might be Utah Valley, UTRGV, and Cal Baptist. My guess is Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word would move over as that gives the WAC five full members for soccer. Central Arkansas could move over since it plays soccer in the MVC. The last two would essentially be random, but may depend on whether there would be an intent to split the football conference as well - as long as the WAC can get six FCS schools, it could sponsor FCS football.

Lamar, Sam Houston State, UTRGV and SFA all mentioned FBS. New Mexico State already in football for FBS? That would get you 6 FBS members. Wichita State, if they add football, could used the WAC as a springing board for FBS status in the AAC in the future. That would be 7. McNeese State, Central Arkansas, and West Texas A&M all do have stadium sizes that are more, even or almost at the FBS requirement. I am not sure who else in Southland wants FBS. Remove five football members, and move the two basketball schools over?That could open the doors for schools like Central Oklahoma, Midwestern State, Angelo State, the A&M twins from Lone Star Conference, Tarleton State, Arkansas Tech and Delta State to slip in.

(06-07-2017 04:18 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 11:50 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(06-03-2017 08:12 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  They're talking to each other because they each want to try to help the other uplift it's profile.

Do you have even a shred of proof, of this? That is a straight up question, not an insult. Please believe me.

I suspect there is no such thing as proof, for any of this. I doubt if it's even hearsay, at this point. It sounds to me more like the wishful thinking of message boards. And as such, it will either never happen, which doesn't prove or disprove anything, or it will suddenly happen with no warning, and you'll claim victory.

But until then, I refuse to believe the HL has had any talks, whatsoever, with NM St or GCU.

He doesn't. It's nothing but hopeful thinking which he has posted on a lot of sites. The only proven in regards to the HL so far? They will play with 9 next year and they have talked to RUM. NMSU and GCU? Outside of media rumors and a rumor last year that the HL had talked to NMSU there is nothing.

And remember, if NMSU did talk to the HL last year it was while they were attempting to decide what to do with football. My guess is they talked to a lot of people. Going Independent was a HUGE decision.

MplsBison, no I don't have a shred of evidence of that exact statement, but I do know that the Horizon League has been in discussions with both GCU and NMSU. If it does happen, why would I claim victory. Victory for what? I'm not competing with anybody. I am a graduate of UIC and worked at my alma mater until retirement 3 years ago. Over that period I developed relationships and friendships with staff and administrators across the University. I still have some of those relationships and I ask questions. That's all. Since I'm a college sports fan, I share what I glean with other fans pertaining to the particular topic.

jacksfan29, could you please list the, ..."lot of sites" I supposedly posted this "hopeful thinking" to? If not, then I'd have to say you either lied or you just made a mistake. I'd like to think it was just a mistake.

Does that mean you're claiming to have a source in the athletic dept who says the HL is talking with GCU and NM St? If so, fine. I just want that to be explicit.

I don't believe either of those teams are in the best interests of the HL, nor would the HL be in the best interests of either of those teams.

(06-08-2017 07:52 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Does that mean you're claiming to have a source in the athletic dept who says the HL is talking with GCU and NM St? If so, fine. I just want that to be explicit.

I don't believe either of those teams are in the best interests of the HL, nor would the HL be in the best interests of either of those teams.

I agree. It does not make any sense for the HL or GCU/NMSU. In 2018, the WAC will have 9 basketball teams, 10 baseball teams and 12 men's soccer teams. I think that compares favorably to the HL which next season will have nine basketball teams, six baseball teams and nine soccer teams. The WAC is okay.


The WAC baseball tournament is played in Mesa, down the street from GCU. The WAC basketball tournament is played in Las Vegas, a bus ride for GCU. The soccer tournament is in Kansas City. Travel works well in the WAC for GCU. It would not in the HL.

I'm also just fine with the idea that none of IU Indy, Fort Wayne, or Robert Morris help the Horizon, and thus won't be extended invites.

But IMO, that just means the HL has to be patient and sit on the nine they have until a more favorable option around the Great Lakes area becomes open.

(06-08-2017 11:36 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'm also just fine with the idea that none of IU Indy, Fort Wayne, or Robert Morris help the Horizon, and thus won't be extended invites.

But IMO, that just means the HL has to be patient and sit on the nine they have until a more favorable option around the Great Lakes area becomes open.

Complain to the Phoenix station that reported GCU, NMSU and the Horizon were talking. Obviously it's fake news to you.

(06-08-2017 07:52 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Does that mean you're claiming to have a source in the athletic dept who says the HL is talking with GCU and NM St? If so, fine. I just want that to be explicit.

Yes. A source. Let's leave it at that.

(06-08-2017 12:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 11:36 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'm also just fine with the idea that none of IU Indy, Fort Wayne, or Robert Morris help the Horizon, and thus won't be extended invites.

But IMO, that just means the HL has to be patient and sit on the nine they have until a more favorable option around the Great Lakes area becomes open.

Complain to the Phoenix station that reported GCU, NMSU and the Horizon were talking. Obviously it's fake news to you.

Link

(06-08-2017 12:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 11:36 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'm also just fine with the idea that none of IU Indy, Fort Wayne, or Robert Morris help the Horizon, and thus won't be extended invites.

But IMO, that just means the HL has to be patient and sit on the nine they have until a more favorable option around the Great Lakes area becomes open.

Complain to the Phoenix station that reported GCU, NMSU and the Horizon were talking. Obviously it's fake news to you.

As some one that listens to Phoenix radio, there is a hell of a lot of fake news that comes out, and a lot of speculation that is presented as fact by so-called insiders, that aren't.


Not saying this is true in this case, but just because it was said is not proof.

(06-08-2017 01:17 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 12:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 11:36 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'm also just fine with the idea that none of IU Indy, Fort Wayne, or Robert Morris help the Horizon, and thus won't be extended invites.

But IMO, that just means the HL has to be patient and sit on the nine they have until a more favorable option around the Great Lakes area becomes open.

Complain to the Phoenix station that reported GCU, NMSU and the Horizon were talking. Obviously it's fake news to you.

Link

Already posted. Read.

There seems reports that Robert Morris is the front runner for the spot. The sticky point would be their LAX and football teams where they will go.

(06-08-2017 12:19 AM)Chuck_A Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 04:18 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 11:50 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(06-03-2017 08:12 PM)Chuck_A Wrote:  They're talking to each other because they each want to try to help the other uplift it's profile.

Do you have even a shred of proof, of this? That is a straight up question, not an insult. Please believe me.

I suspect there is no such thing as proof, for any of this. I doubt if it's even hearsay, at this point. It sounds to me more like the wishful thinking of message boards. And as such, it will either never happen, which doesn't prove or disprove anything, or it will suddenly happen with no warning, and you'll claim victory.

But until then, I refuse to believe the HL has had any talks, whatsoever, with NM St or GCU.

He doesn't. It's nothing but hopeful thinking which he has posted on a lot of sites. The only proven in regards to the HL so far? They will play with 9 next year and they have talked to RUM. NMSU and GCU? Outside of media rumors and a rumor last year that the HL had talked to NMSU there is nothing.

And remember, if NMSU did talk to the HL last year it was while they were attempting to decide what to do with football. My guess is they talked to a lot of people. Going Independent was a HUGE decision.

MplsBison, no I don't have a shred of evidence of that exact statement, but I do know that the Horizon League has been in discussions with both GCU and NMSU. If it does happen, why would I claim victory. Victory for what? I'm not competing with anybody. I am a graduate of UIC and worked at my alma mater until retirement 3 years ago. Over that period I developed relationships and friendships with staff and administrators across the University. I still have some of those relationships and I ask questions. That's all. Since I'm a college sports fan, I share what I glean with other fans pertaining to the particular topic.

jacksfan29, could you please list the, ..."lot of sites" I supposedly posted this "hopeful thinking" to? If not, then I'd have to say you either lied or you just made a mistake. I'd like to think it was just a mistake.

Here and the Horizon League fan site to name 2. My guess is if I troll other HL sites I'll find you. Your idea has been shot down many times. By the way, since it seems to be fan sites and "unnamed sources" that drive facts now days, maybe you should check out the NMSU and WAC sites where NMSU folks hang. I still haven't seen one who thinks NMSU to the HL is a good idea.

(06-08-2017 12:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 11:36 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'm also just fine with the idea that none of IU Indy, Fort Wayne, or Robert Morris help the Horizon, and thus won't be extended invites.

But IMO, that just means the HL has to be patient and sit on the nine they have until a more favorable option around the Great Lakes area becomes open.

Complain to the Phoenix station that reported GCU, NMSU and the Horizon were talking. Obviously it's fake news to you.

Where in the below statement of opinion does it say that NMSU and GCU are talking with the Horizon? Incredible.

By the way, I like how they've "outgrown" the WAC even though they haven't done anything. Good stuff and more proof that intelligent journalists don't exist any longer.

The Horizon League should be the next landing spot for Grand Canyon University. Valparaiso just left the Horizon for the Missouri Valley Conference so there is an opening. The ‘Lopes have out-grown the WAC and the West Coast Conference Presidents aren’t going to take in a For-Profit university. The Horizon has Detroit, Cleveland, and Milwaukee as hub cities for schools within the conference, nothing wrong with that, beats Bakersfield, Cedar City and Las Cruces. As to the idea that travel would be a problem, well, I’d kindly point out at that a direct three hour flight would get GCU into the Horizon about the same or quicker than a flight and bus trip. In a day and age where Universities are struggling with athletic budgets, GCU has to make sure that the Conference they belong to is in great health. Hard for anyone to convince me that the WAC is in that space…

Where are all the Robert Morris fans? They should be here telling us all about the chances of going to the Horizon.

(06-08-2017 01:28 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 12:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 11:36 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'm also just fine with the idea that none of IU Indy, Fort Wayne, or Robert Morris help the Horizon, and thus won't be extended invites.

But IMO, that just means the HL has to be patient and sit on the nine they have until a more favorable option around the Great Lakes area becomes open.

Complain to the Phoenix station that reported GCU, NMSU and the Horizon were talking. Obviously it's fake news to you.

Where in the below statement of opinion does it say that NMSU and GCU are talking with the Horizon? Incredible.

By the way, I like how they've "outgrown" the WAC even though they haven't done anything. Good stuff and more proof that intelligent journalists don't exist any longer.

The Horizon League should be the next landing spot for Grand Canyon University. Valparaiso just left the Horizon for the Missouri Valley Conference so there is an opening. The ‘Lopes have out-grown the WAC and the West Coast Conference Presidents aren’t going to take in a For-Profit university. The Horizon has Detroit, Cleveland, and Milwaukee as hub cities for schools within the conference, nothing wrong with that, beats Bakersfield, Cedar City and Las Cruces. As to the idea that travel would be a problem, well, I’d kindly point out at that a direct three hour flight would get GCU into the Horizon about the same or quicker than a flight and bus trip. In a day and age where Universities are struggling with athletic budgets, GCU has to make sure that the Conference they belong to is in great health. Hard for anyone to convince me that the WAC is in that space…

Jerry Colangelo, who has GCU's business school named after him, has said there are other conference opps for GCU. Presume that isn't the Pac12, MWC, WCC or Big West.

Just waiting to hear how that is fake.