(04-05-2017 07:57 PM)Dylan Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:45 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:42 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:20 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:12 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  We got worse on paper. Who knows how it will turn out on the court. I'm willing to wait and see.

It's not going to end well. Next season will be a disaster. 4th year in a row with zero post season.

Year after that will be lucky to be as good as this year. 5th year in a row nonlist season.

Tubby will get fired and we'll have to start over with a new guy.

It'll take him a couple of years to get it rolling IF he knows what he's doing.

Unless you enjoy losing, mediocre basketball you ain't gonna be happy.

Like in my other thread, if it looks like (and it does) that after year three we will be looking at no NCAA's and a team made up of Azab, Clergeot, and Martin as the only upperclassmen and it looks like Tubby should be let go, why not just do it now if you are relatively certain you'll be doing it after year three.

1. Too expensive
2. Hard to find a quality coach if you fire a future HOF'er coach after one year

If he can't land a high quality 2018 class (or wins with lesser recruits), I think he may be shown the door

You realize the national media is killing Tubby right now and Memphis for HIRING him

I usually hate this response to a post, but here goes...

Link?

(04-05-2017 08:22 PM)former guest Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:57 PM)Dylan Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:45 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:42 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:20 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  It's not going to end well. Next season will be a disaster. 4th year in a row with zero post season.

Year after that will be lucky to be as good as this year. 5th year in a row nonlist season.

Tubby will get fired and we'll have to start over with a new guy.

It'll take him a couple of years to get it rolling IF he knows what he's doing.

Unless you enjoy losing, mediocre basketball you ain't gonna be happy.

Like in my other thread, if it looks like (and it does) that after year three we will be looking at no NCAA's and a team made up of Azab, Clergeot, and Martin as the only upperclassmen and it looks like Tubby should be let go, why not just do it now if you are relatively certain you'll be doing it after year three.

1. Too expensive
2. Hard to find a quality coach if you fire a future HOF'er coach after one year

If he can't land a high quality 2018 class (or wins with lesser recruits), I think he may be shown the door

You realize the national media is killing Tubby right now and Memphis for HIRING him

I usually hate this response to a post, but here goes...

Link?

No kidding. The national media is not paying attention. Oh, they'll likely mention the Lawson thing, but killing Memphis for hiring Tubby? No.

(04-05-2017 08:22 PM)former guest Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:57 PM)Dylan Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:45 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:42 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:20 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  It's not going to end well. Next season will be a disaster. 4th year in a row with zero post season.

Year after that will be lucky to be as good as this year. 5th year in a row nonlist season.

Tubby will get fired and we'll have to start over with a new guy.

It'll take him a couple of years to get it rolling IF he knows what he's doing.

Unless you enjoy losing, mediocre basketball you ain't gonna be happy.

Like in my other thread, if it looks like (and it does) that after year three we will be looking at no NCAA's and a team made up of Azab, Clergeot, and Martin as the only upperclassmen and it looks like Tubby should be let go, why not just do it now if you are relatively certain you'll be doing it after year three.

1. Too expensive
2. Hard to find a quality coach if you fire a future HOF'er coach after one year

If he can't land a high quality 2018 class (or wins with lesser recruits), I think he may be shown the door

You realize the national media is killing Tubby right now and Memphis for HIRING him

I usually hate this response to a post, but here goes...

Link?

I'm not going to paste the tweets, but Goodman, Wolken, and Parrish are killing it. Doyel killed it last week.

(04-05-2017 08:17 PM)holyterror Wrote:  This ain't gonna be well received, but pastner is beginning to look smarter...

Those names are not exactly the top-enders of "national media."

(04-05-2017 09:03 PM)Hoots Wrote:  Those names are not exactly the top-enders of "national media."

Memphis basketball isn't nationally relevant any more and becoming less so with every passing season.

I hope the team kicks azz next year, for WAY more than the usual reasons.

(04-05-2017 09:33 PM)450bench Wrote:  I hope the team kicks azz next year, for WAY more than the usual reasons.

I would be fun to have a great year seemingly come out of nowhere but anything over .500 will be good for this team however; no pass for Tubby.

Anything less than the NIT tournament won't cut it so I hope he lands some really overlooked late talent.

(04-05-2017 03:44 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 03:40 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  If they don't have 4+ stars, people here think they suck. Those other programs recruiting these guys were wrong too.

There are some that think that.

Others see what has happened at a good handful of non power schools and realize it can be done here, with a few tweaks to the process.

But you have to sign the guys first.

For all the blather about next year and Tubby's guys and whatnot, he still only has 8 scholarship players, which will probably by 7 after Markel decides, only 3 with DI experience.

So, it's not about stars...it's about having a full roster and depth and players that fill roles...as of right MV ssnow, they are a long way from that.

Time will tell though.

A

(04-05-2017 03:23 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Agree and disagree. I can look forward to next year, but definitely think we'll be worse.

Glad the Lawson drama is over. Dedric seems like a good kid, and the family might be fine. But they seem to have a grass is greener view of the world. Even at Hamilton, the parents were looking to cash in and go to a prep school in Florida. Then it was Vanderbilt, as long as they hired Keelon. The drama last spring. Now, the transfers. It was never going to end.

Pretty much agree. We may not be better, but I think it will be more enjoyable to watch. Like the first of this year. We weren't that much better than Pastner's teams - especially talent wise - but we played better. Then ... instead of trending the right way, it crashed. I'm thinking we won't have that next year and will see the right improvement. But the talent level will be down, without a doubt.

But you're spot on with the Lawson drama. Their constant media barrage of leaks and statements while our play on the court was deteriorating showed me what I had been suspecting. People can defend Keelon all they want, and say Tubby did it to him. The evidence shows he was constantly leveraging for the better deal. And not doing it with his own work or their work ethic - doing it with threats and promises.

(04-05-2017 04:02 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  I get a kick out of all these folks to take shot at the kids

Like discounting and mocking Jake's and Jeremiah's tweets in support of the program.

(04-06-2017 02:30 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:02 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  I get a kick out of all these folks to take shot at the kids

Like discounting and mocking Jake's and Jeremiah's tweets in support of the program.

You have a partial argument, to a degree.

Discounting what a player says is just that - disagreeing with opinion. It's not taking a shot at a kid to disagree with a kid. I'm not taking a shot at my son because I discount his taste in music. Etc.

Whereas the shots people take at players are often to deflect responsibility from the current coaching regime and/or demean/belittle the player as a way of doing that. Also known as - throwing a guy under the bus. Calling his father a pimp. Saying he sucks and blah blah blah.

I don't care Jake's opinion. Sue me. I do care if someone tries to say Jake is responsible for XYZ and not the head coach who is earning the top dog paycheck.

NEXT

(04-05-2017 07:15 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  If Tubby turns Memphis into Wichita then great.

Going 24-12 and getting sandblasted in the first round while the Lawsons and DJ Jeffries are lighting it up at SEC schools is going to get him canned....no matter how crazy out expectations are.

So first you've conceded Markel, and now you're conceding Jeffries. We may lose Markel - but the decision with the Lawsons did not decrease our chance of keeping him. Quite the opposite.

Same could be true for Jeffries. What 5-star wants to come to a program who has sold out to run everything thru other players with a different last name from you?

(04-06-2017 02:30 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:02 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  I get a kick out of all these folks to take shot at the kids

Like discounting and mocking Jake's and Jeremiah's tweets in support of the program.

Loyal kid is loyal.

It's great that Jake and Jeremiah are loyal to our school and take these things personally. And, just so there's no misinterpretation, I mean that with all sincerity.

But that very loyalty is a pretty good reason to take their opinions on this issue with a pretty big grain of salt. Of course they feel that way.

(04-06-2017 02:48 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:15 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  If Tubby turns Memphis into Wichita then great.

Going 24-12 and getting sandblasted in the first round while the Lawsons and DJ Jeffries are lighting it up at SEC schools is going to get him canned....no matter how crazy out expectations are.

So first you've conceded Markel, and now you're conceding Jeffries. We may lose Markel - but the decision with the Lawsons did not decrease our chance of keeping him. Quite the opposite.

Same could be true for Jeffries. What 5-star wants to come to a program who has sold out to run everything thru other players with a different last name from you?

I conceded Markel because Gary Parrish, Jonah Jordan and some others have conceded Markel.

I conceded DJ Jeffries because he's a cousin of the Lawsons and Tubby has called him exactly one time in 365 days.

Call me negative I guess. I try to read the tea leaves as best as possible without being naive.

(04-05-2017 07:57 PM)Dylan Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:45 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:42 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:20 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:12 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  We got worse on paper. Who knows how it will turn out on the court. I'm willing to wait and see.

It's not going to end well. Next season will be a disaster. 4th year in a row with zero post season.

Year after that will be lucky to be as good as this year. 5th year in a row nonlist season.

Tubby will get fired and we'll have to start over with a new guy.

It'll take him a couple of years to get it rolling IF he knows what he's doing.

Unless you enjoy losing, mediocre basketball you ain't gonna be happy.

Like in my other thread, if it looks like (and it does) that after year three we will be looking at no NCAA's and a team made up of Azab, Clergeot, and Martin as the only upperclassmen and it looks like Tubby should be let go, why not just do it now if you are relatively certain you'll be doing it after year three.

1. Too expensive
2. Hard to find a quality coach if you fire a future HOF'er coach after one year

If he can't land a high quality 2018 class (or wins with lesser recruits), I think he may be shown the door

You realize the national media is killing Tubby right now and Memphis for HIRING him

I've missed that. All I've heard nationally is Decourcy ripping Keelon and contradicting J&J on their show. He also wrote a column about how it doesn't pay to hire parents.

(04-06-2017 02:49 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 02:30 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:02 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  I get a kick out of all these folks to take shot at the kids

Like discounting and mocking Jake's and Jeremiah's tweets in support of the program.

Loyal kid is loyal.

It's great that Jake and Jeremiah are loyal to our school and take these things personally. And, just so there's no misinterpretation, I mean that with all sincerity.

But that very loyalty is a pretty good reason to take their opinions on this issue with a pretty big grain of salt. Of course they feel that way.

Well said. I also admire loyalty and can see it playing out here.

(04-06-2017 02:18 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Pretty much agree. We may not be better, but I think it will be more enjoyable to watch. Like the first of this year. We weren't that much better than Pastner's teams - especially talent wise - but we played better. Then ... instead of trending the right way, it crashed. I'm thinking we won't have that next year and will see the right improvement. But the talent level will be down, without a doubt.

What if the team ends up around .500 +/- a game with zero or one quality win and another first round flame out in the AAC tournament?

Are you going to enjoy that?

The program has been in an increasingly downward spiral since getting blown out at home by UConn during the first AAC basketball tournament. Tubby hasn't put the brakes on it yet; in fact he's in a full throttle dive getting ready to crater next season.....

(04-06-2017 02:54 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 02:48 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:15 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  If Tubby turns Memphis into Wichita then great.

Going 24-12 and getting sandblasted in the first round while the Lawsons and DJ Jeffries are lighting it up at SEC schools is going to get him canned....no matter how crazy out expectations are.

So first you've conceded Markel, and now you're conceding Jeffries. We may lose Markel - but the decision with the Lawsons did not decrease our chance of keeping him. Quite the opposite.

Same could be true for Jeffries. What 5-star wants to come to a program who has sold out to run everything thru other players with a different last name from you?

I conceded Markel because Gary Parrish, Jonah Jordan and some others have conceded Markel.

I conceded DJ Jeffries because he's a cousin of the Lawsons and Tubby has called him exactly one time in 365 days.

Call me negative I guess. I try to read the tea leaves as best as possible without being naive.

But most who conceded Markel did so before 11:15 am on Wednesday. It was about post-season prospects - not the Lawsons. Now it's different. May not be enough, but it's definitely not worse. And many here are trying to act like this seals it for Markel - which is misleading.

Jeffries as a relative? meh. Irrelevant. Tubby may have called him once - not sure where that's coming from. But he's watched him play in person, a whole lot.

(04-06-2017 03:03 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 02:54 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 02:48 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:15 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  If Tubby turns Memphis into Wichita then great.

Going 24-12 and getting sandblasted in the first round while the Lawsons and DJ Jeffries are lighting it up at SEC schools is going to get him canned....no matter how crazy out expectations are.

So first you've conceded Markel, and now you're conceding Jeffries. We may lose Markel - but the decision with the Lawsons did not decrease our chance of keeping him. Quite the opposite.

Same could be true for Jeffries. What 5-star wants to come to a program who has sold out to run everything thru other players with a different last name from you?

I conceded Markel because Gary Parrish, Jonah Jordan and some others have conceded Markel.

I conceded DJ Jeffries because he's a cousin of the Lawsons and Tubby has called him exactly one time in 365 days.

Call me negative I guess. I try to read the tea leaves as best as possible without being naive.

But most who conceded Markel did so before 11:15 am on Wednesday. It was about post-season prospects - not the Lawsons. Now it's different. May not be enough, but it's definitely not worse. And many here are trying to act like this seals it for Markel - which is misleading.

Jeffries as a relative? meh. Irrelevant. Tubby may have called him once - not sure where that's coming from. But he's watched him play in person, a whole lot.

Comes from his father...