(04-05-2017 04:02 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  I get a kick out of all these folks to take shot at the kids, never hold the dude getting paid $2.65 million or $3 million accountable.

Now we get the fallback, like with Pastner (once he gets "his" guys in here)...

Memphis was going to get better
1) When Sallie got kicked off
2) When Carmouche was sent away
3) When Joe took his king act somewhere else
4) When the disrespectful Spoon left
5) When Tarik took his disrespectful self to Kansas
6) When the Four Kings got outta here
7) When Frank got canned
8) When Iverson and Pookie took their selfish asses outta here
9) When Austin and Nick left
10) And now, when the cancerous, hostage holding Lawson's leave.

Problems all solved.

Except for actually winning.

Then we hear the, "let's just do it like Gonzaga or Xavier...good, not great, kids that listen to their coach."

Except, Xavier started four 4*'s (six total on their roster), a grad transfer, and have the #10 class coming in this year.

Gonzaga had the #17 class in 2016. Few had five 4* recruits and two 4* transfers.

So, yeah, we can talk all we want about "coaching em up" but bringing in one top 150 kid and two other 200+ kids along with a handful of JUCO all rated lower than what Jimario Rivers was last year (17th by the way) isn't getting us closer to X or the Zags.

I still blame Frank

Ouch

(04-05-2017 03:36 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  I'm an outsider but I'm curious what the ire is over Tubby. Did y'all expect him to come in and dominate the league right off the bat?
And, yeah, I recognize that ECU is an albatross in basketball. That doesn't mean that we don't know something about it. Kind of hard not to in NC.

Other than not being from Memphis I'm not seeing what the problem is with these recruits.

2017 - #2 AAC class right now
Nickelberry - Prep School Player w/ offers from FSU, UF, Miami, Texas...
Enoh - offers from Arkansas, OSU, Vandy, KState, UTK, FGCU, Providence...
Johnson - offers from most of the SEC, Wake Forest, KState, Harvard (probably a smart player)

The players you listed (assuming they all qualify) are rated three stars by ESPN. Until relatively recently, three star players rounded out classes filled with four and five star players. Tiger fans expect to make regular appearances and win games in the NCAA Tourney. it is easier to win games when your team has more talent than the opponent. Compounding the relatively lack of talent are doubts about Tubby's coaching ability after a dismal season's end (including two crushing defeats). Now we are bleeding transfers.

Other Tiger coaches in the past engineered a quick turnaround. The fear (legitimate IMO) is that Tubby is burning the program to the ground and it will take many years (if ever) to recover. Please note other good Tiger fans may disagree with my assessment.

(04-05-2017 03:11 PM)450bench Wrote:  ...personally, I'm looking forward to next year and I think we will be a better team than we were in Tubby's first year...It's my opinion that the situation with the Lawson's, who are fine people, was driven by Keelon. And that's fine. I'm actually looking more forward to next year now than I was yesterday.
Bottom line, I think this team will be better, more motivated and surprising. I'd expect 5 more signees with all ready to compete and play.
Like I said, I sure I'll catch hell here for this opinion, and that's fine.

No heat from me. I totally agree.

(04-05-2017 04:02 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  I get a kick out of all these folks to take shot at the kids, never hold the dude getting paid $2.65 million or $3 million accountable.

Now we get the fallback, like with Pastner (once he gets "his" guys in here)...

Memphis was going to get better
1) When Sallie got kicked off
2) When Carmouche was sent away
3) When Joe took his king act somewhere else
4) When the disrespectful Spoon left
5) When Tarik took his disrespectful self to Kansas
6) When the Four Kings got outta here
7) When Frank got canned
8) When Iverson and Pookie took their selfish asses outta here
9) When Austin and Nick left
10) And now, when the cancerous, hostage holding Lawson's leave.

Problems all solved.

Except for actually winning.

Then we hear the, "let's just do it like Gonzaga or Xavier...good, not great, kids that listen to their coach."

Except, Xavier started four 4*'s (six total on their roster), a grad transfer, and have the #10 class coming in this year.

Gonzaga had the #17 class in 2016. Few had five 4* recruits and two 4* transfers.

So, yeah, we can talk all we want about "coaching em up" but bringing in one top 150 kid and two other 200+ kids along with a handful of JUCO all rated lower than what Jimario Rivers was last year (17th by the way) isn't getting us closer to X or the Zags.

That's what we're really talking about --that level of JUCO play somehow translating to making a competitive team.

Why do people make excuses to support the only guy who is getting paid?

If a coach can't make a team out of talented players, he is not Memphis Good. lol.

Sorry but I had to get that dig in there.

(04-05-2017 03:36 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  I'm an outsider but I'm curious what the ire is over Tubby. Did y'all expect him to come in and dominate the league right off the bat?
And, yeah, I recognize that ECU is an albatross in basketball. That doesn't mean that we don't know something about it. Kind of hard not to in NC.

Other than not being from Memphis I'm not seeing what the problem is with these recruits.

2017 - #2 AAC class right now
Nickelberry - Prep School Player w/ offers from FSU, UF, Miami, Texas...
Enoh - offers from Arkansas, OSU, Vandy, KState, UTK, FGCU, Providence...
Johnson - offers from most of the SEC, Wake Forest, KState, Harvard (probably a smart player)

You leave off

Nickelberry: George Mason, Stetson, Tulane, Florida International, Murray State
Enoh: Florida Atlantic, Murray State, Georgia State, La. Tech
Johnson: all legit P5 level offers

Johnson is the prize of the class, but his rating suggests he should be asked to really contribute as a junior and senior.

The other two have good offers and so-so offers. These are the guy who are being offered by the mid-majors as potential starters at some point in their career, while the P5 types see them as flyers to fill a slot in the 10-13 scholarship range.

And that is fine--except it appears Memphis will be asking these guys to be contributors as frosh and sophs. Perhaps that will speed up the learning cure or it just may be a sh!tshow. Certainly history is not on the side of 200+ rated recruits having early success.

(04-05-2017 03:53 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 03:42 PM)Dylan Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 03:34 PM)450bench Wrote:  Obviously an opinion, but I'd bet Tubby took a deep breath today and is actually relieved. Probably views next year as his first here.

Stating the obvious here, but we let a coach making $3.1 million dollars waste a year? Check the Forum next year and get back to me.

and, uh, have you seen the recruiting rankings and who we are recruiting? I can only imagine what you would have said if Pastner brought in a sub top 50 class and was bringing in multiple juco's for a visit with this many open needs.

I'm not a Pastner fan, so don't accuse me of that.

A. He didn't waste a year here, not at all, but I think there were some distractions FOR THE TEAM that may have surprised him. Next year represents a bit of a fresh start.
The forum issue is on pastner. Rebuilding the program will get the people back.
B. There are outstanding players every year in college basketball that didn't rank high while being recruited. Rodney Carney is a good example, Mingo Johnson, DJ Stephens and others. pastner was a HORRIBLE fit here and lousy evaluator of his own talent here. He's gone now and I could not care less about him.
C. I really don't care if you're a pastner fan or not. I am, probably like you, a fan of the program and I think the program got a little breath of fresh air today, no offense to the players who left because they are good kids.

What about Tubby's tenure outside of his time at Kentucky tells you he can get the fans back?

Great post OP!

(04-05-2017 04:08 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  . Tiger fans expect to make regular appearances and win games in the NCAA Tourney.

You do? you've been to 26 NCAAs and gotten to the sweet 16 eleven times. 5 of those were vacated.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

(04-05-2017 03:22 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote:  No, Kj, D Lawson, Crawford. No big word a darn but we will be better? You serious Clark?

I have to agree. I'll wait to see who Tubby recruits to take their places but, the way things are looking now, I see a precipitous drop from this year's results - probably a losing season. I sure hope I'm totally wrong.

ok....I told y'all not to talk to the green thing.

As of right now, 7 scholarship players, 3 with DI experience.

Karim Azab C 6-11 SO Giza, Egypt
Victor Enoh F 6-8 FR Decatur, Georgia
David Nickelberry G/F 6-7 FR Windermere, Florida
Jimario Rivers F 6-7 SR Clarksville, Tennessee
Jamal Johnson G 6-4 FR Birmingham, Alabama
Jeremiah Martin G 6-3 JR Memphis, Tennessee
Keon Clergeot G 6-1 SO Auburndale, Florida

(04-05-2017 04:31 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 03:22 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote:  No, Kj, D Lawson, Crawford. No big word a darn but we will be better? You serious Clark?

I have to agree. I'll wait to see who Tubby recruits to take their places but, the way things are looking now, I see a precipitous drop from this year's results - probably a losing season. I sure hope I'm totally wrong.

You did see the last two weeks of the season, right? How did the Tigers do with them in the lineup?

(04-05-2017 04:02 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  I get a kick out of all these folks to take shot at the kids, never hold the dude getting paid $2.65 million or $3 million accountable.

Now we get the fallback, like with Pastner (once he gets "his" guys in here)...

Memphis was going to get better
1) When Sallie got kicked off
2) When Carmouche was sent away
3) When Joe took his king act somewhere else
4) When the disrespectful Spoon left
5) When Tarik took his disrespectful self to Kansas
6) When the Four Kings got outta here
7) When Frank got canned
8) When Iverson and Pookie took their selfish asses outta here
9) When Austin and Nick left
10) And now, when the cancerous, hostage holding Lawson's leave.

Problems all solved.

Except for actually winning.

Then we hear the, "let's just do it like Gonzaga or Xavier...good, not great, kids that listen to their coach."

Except, Xavier started four 4*'s (six total on their roster), a grad transfer, and have the #10 class coming in this year.

Gonzaga had the #17 class in 2016. Few had five 4* recruits and two 4* transfers.

So, yeah, we can talk all we want about "coaching em up" but bringing in one top 150 kid and two other 200+ kids along with a handful of JUCO all rated lower than what Jimario Rivers was last year (17th by the way) isn't getting us closer to X or the Zags.

Good realistic post. Gotta have some top drawer recruits if you're gonna play in the big leagues.

(04-05-2017 04:36 PM)Hoots Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:31 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 03:22 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote:  No, Kj, D Lawson, Crawford. No big word a darn but we will be better? You serious Clark?

I have to agree. I'll wait to see who Tubby recruits to take their places but, the way things are looking now, I see a precipitous drop from this year's results - probably a losing season. I sure hope I'm totally wrong.

You did see the last two weeks of the season, right? How did the Tigers do with them in the lineup?

Yeah they sucked at the end. They probably ran out of gas, like several on this board predicted.

(04-05-2017 04:39 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:36 PM)Hoots Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:31 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 03:22 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote:  No, Kj, D Lawson, Crawford. No big word a darn but we will be better? You serious Clark?

I have to agree. I'll wait to see who Tubby recruits to take their places but, the way things are looking now, I see a precipitous drop from this year's results - probably a losing season. I sure hope I'm totally wrong.

You did see the last two weeks of the season, right? How did the Tigers do with them in the lineup?

Yeah they sucked at the end. They probably ran out of gas, like several on this board predicted.

Or, there were other things at play. They might have been "out of gas," because the guys played a ton of minutes, but I don't buy the fatigue routine. It smells more like there were major chemistry issues, and Tubby's hands were tied because of the players involved. We'll see how things transpire from here, but I believe this day needed to happen.

(04-05-2017 04:45 PM)Hoots Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:39 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:36 PM)Hoots Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:31 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 03:22 PM)FORealTigerFan Wrote:  No, Kj, D Lawson, Crawford. No big word a darn but we will be better? You serious Clark?

I have to agree. I'll wait to see who Tubby recruits to take their places but, the way things are looking now, I see a precipitous drop from this year's results - probably a losing season. I sure hope I'm totally wrong.

You did see the last two weeks of the season, right? How did the Tigers do with them in the lineup?

Yeah they sucked at the end. They probably ran out of gas, like several on this board predicted.

Or, there were other things at play. They might have been "out of gas," because the guys played a ton of minutes, but I don't buy the fatigue routine. It smells more like there were major chemistry issues, and Tubby's hands were tied because of the players involved. We'll see how things transpire from here, but I believe this day needed to happen.

Great post...

(04-05-2017 05:20 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:45 PM)Hoots Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:39 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:36 PM)Hoots Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:31 PM)presskh Wrote:  I have to agree. I'll wait to see who Tubby recruits to take their places but, the way things are looking now, I see a precipitous drop from this year's results - probably a losing season. I sure hope I'm totally wrong.

You did see the last two weeks of the season, right? How did the Tigers do with them in the lineup?

Yeah they sucked at the end. They probably ran out of gas, like several on this board predicted.

Or, there were other things at play. They might have been "out of gas," because the guys played a ton of minutes, but I don't buy the fatigue routine. It smells more like there were major chemistry issues, and Tubby's hands were tied because of the players involved. We'll see how things transpire from here, but I believe this day needed to happen.

Great post...

Maybe this needed to happen and maybe it didn't.

Why is drunk assed Saul an assistant coach here? You think he's on a staff somewhere if his daddy isn't the coach?

.500 is possible next year because the schedule is S h I t.

Still can beat all the 200+ RPI teams at the forum , just have to struggle to win.

I see at least 2 more down years before the team has a realistic chance to be an NCAA tournament type team. Maybe.

But hey, if you like the last three years then you'll like the next 2-3 years too.

(04-05-2017 05:32 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 05:20 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:45 PM)Hoots Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:39 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:36 PM)Hoots Wrote:  You did see the last two weeks of the season, right? How did the Tigers do with them in the lineup?

Yeah they sucked at the end. They probably ran out of gas, like several on this board predicted.

Or, there were other things at play. They might have been "out of gas," because the guys played a ton of minutes, but I don't buy the fatigue routine. It smells more like there were major chemistry issues, and Tubby's hands were tied because of the players involved. We'll see how things transpire from here, but I believe this day needed to happen.

Great post...

Maybe this needed to happen and maybe it didn't.

Why is drunk assed Saul an assistant coach here? You think he's on a staff somewhere if his daddy isn't the coach?

.500 is possible next year because the schedule is S h I t.

Still can beat all the 200+ RPI teams at the forum , just have to struggle to win.

I see at least 2 more down years before the team has a realistic chance to be an NCAA tournament type team. Maybe.

But hey, if you like the last three years then you'll like the next 2-3 years too.

Why are you character assassinating Saul? Was he drunk on the job here at Memphis? I don't recall him getting into any issues this season.

(04-05-2017 05:32 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 05:20 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:45 PM)Hoots Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:39 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 04:36 PM)Hoots Wrote:  You did see the last two weeks of the season, right? How did the Tigers do with them in the lineup?

Yeah they sucked at the end. They probably ran out of gas, like several on this board predicted.

Or, there were other things at play. They might have been "out of gas," because the guys played a ton of minutes, but I don't buy the fatigue routine. It smells more like there were major chemistry issues, and Tubby's hands were tied because of the players involved. We'll see how things transpire from here, but I believe this day needed to happen.

Great post...

Maybe this needed to happen and maybe it didn't.

Why is drunk assed Saul an assistant coach here? You think he's on a staff somewhere if his daddy isn't the coach?

.500 is possible next year because the schedule is S h I t.

Still can beat all the 200+ RPI teams at the forum , just have to struggle to win.

I see at least 2 more down years before the team has a realistic chance to be an NCAA tournament type team. Maybe.

But hey, if you like the last three years then you'll like the next 2-3 years too.

You may be right but, then again, you may not be. I have a feeling that next year is going to be surprisingly good. I just want to give the guy a fair chance to coach and coach the players that are truly all in. Limit the distractions and play basketball.